Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #5

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This is why i believe the incident involving the girl who broke her leg jumping from the cab is the work of the CSK.

How do you blitz attack someone in your car so as to leave no mess, whilst making a fast get away.

You have an accomplice hiding in the back who slips a noose over the victims head from behind and strangles them, allowing the driver to concentrate on getting away.

I cannot believe this incident hasnt been persued further as the use of a taxi and the 2 party scenario can easily fit the CSK crime MO, probably better than any other scenario given so far.

I think she was one lucky lady.

This is where I beleive the whole Lance Williams thing starts gaining some traction. I think if this Taxi incident on princess road is legit and actually happened (no media reports when it happened) then it could have something to do with Lance and his 'best friend'

I think something to do with Lance and his best mate dying has made him go from rapist to killer as a lone wolf.. Thus he may have used a number of MO's depending on the situation, eg. With or without the friend makes for a completly different scenario
 
This is why i believe the incident involving the girl who broke her leg jumping from the cab is the work of the CSK.

How do you blitz attack someone in your car so as to leave no mess, whilst making a fast get away.

You have an accomplice hiding in the back who slips a noose over the victims head from behind and strangles them, allowing the driver to concentrate on getting away.

I cannot believe this incident hasnt been persued further as the use of a taxi and the 2 party scenario can easily fit the CSK crime MO, probably better than any other scenario given so far.

I think she was one lucky lady.
I have by no means ruled out Taxi Theory but;

1. I've all but ruled out the CSK being more than 1 guy. If it were more than 1 guy then you have 2 people who could continue to kill. Even if it's a sub/dom relationship and for some reason dom stopped, there's still a sub out their who could some how stuff it up. Also consider that all those prior sex attacks, only the taxi one was reported as being more than 1 person.
2. The use of the term blitz attack in context to this case means the abduction happened on foot.
 
I have by no means ruled out Taxi Theory but;

1. I've all but ruled out the CSK being more than 1 guy. If it were more than 1 guy then you have 2 people who could continue to kill. Even if it's a sub/dom relationship and for some reason dom stopped, there's still a sub out their who could some how stuff it up. Also consider that all those prior sex attacks, only the taxi one was reported as being more than 1 person.
2. The use of the term blitz attack in context to this case means the abduction happened on foot.

Is this certain, i assume people naturally think of an on foot scenario because to blitz attack with a car would appear too difficult, however, if you add an accomplice and put them in a cab, a sudden attack from the rear whilst riding in a cab could easily be considered a blitz.
As in there was order and then all hell broke loose.

It makes more sense to happen successfully in a car that is mobile with the windows up than on the side of the road.

Why did they stop, who knows, if its a partnership and one opts out the other may have moved elsewhere and changed MO.
 
@ elastic

Certainly possible, something happened to escelate things.

My only question would be if it were LW and he escelated things as a result of his friends death, why did he then stop?

I get the opposite feeling, like it started off as one rapist and escelated to murder once an offsider got involved.
 
No idea where you get this understanding from, The Irish Times article about Ciara specifically says atleast Jane was strangled, this article was created from direct contact with Ciaras dad as the article was mainly about how he dealt with the ordeal.

The article specifically says 'Jane Rimmer was strangled' this article would not have been subjected to WA's gag order.

Its more than likely they were bound and dumped. The decomposed state of the bodies would make it hard to determine ligatures..

Lets be honest tho, if you wanted to demobilise a small female then strangling them to death/unconcious and transporting them bound in a boot late at night would not be difficult.

Bart, when you say 'your understanding' why is it that you are privvy to certain facts no one else has ever heard of...

If you were going to slit someones throat it would be near the dump site. Unless you drained there blood at another location then moved them whch would be time consuming to wait before the body could be moved cleanly.

I think the CSK victims were hit hard initially to either knock them out (eg. Ciara with the fire poker), then further strangled, thrown into the back of the stationwagon (hence the fibres), bound whilst the victim was unconcious/dead from the head blow and further strangulation after the blow to head, then transported bound/unconcious/dead..

Any male could king hit (cowards punch) a female from the side or behind and they would be almost killed and certainly not mobile or able to fight back... If strangulation occured then they would be greatly incapacitated...

I dont think this needs over thinking...

1. I have a source that is not DM's book. I have told you this before. I have verified my source. The question isn't whether I am mistaken about my source, but whether I'm telling the truth or not.
2. I will not reveal my source to you or anyone else. I understand that because there are a lot of people who tend to come here and make up lies that there is an obligation to back up claims. I understand this and that's why I have presented it as a hypothetical to discuss.
3. Given it's a hypothetical, I'm unsure why every time I try to discuss it (as a hypothetical) you try and shut it down. Perhaps you are mad at me because I exposed a few fibs you told?
4. Have you ever considered why you are happy to take some new information (i.e. fire poker) at face value but not something I have said?
5. Have you ever considered that I have some leanings in this case (LW, pick up theory, single perp) but none of the information I have provided backs up my theory? Surely if I were a liar, or one of the time-waster types who seem to constantly infiltrate these threads, I'd come out with a different lie that back my theories? Its on record that I previously believed the girls were strangled for the same logic you think they were (wouldn't be surprised if you were rehashing an earlier theory of mine and you don't know it was me you got it from).
6. Literally hundreds of people have approached me since I started the BF thread. Most are posters but some are outsiders. Without big noting myself, because I'm probably the most prolific poster (that is of sane mind) a lot of traffic comes my way. Guess who I don't pass it on to.

So please, take the hint and stand aside.
 
Ta; Barth for this. There was a prolific lady blogger who mentioned the CSK washing his car including the tailgate with chemicals. Along with mentioning other stuff like the csk pushing the victims off this tailgate. Totally made up & we really did not need this rot at that time. Thanks for posting this so we can clarify.

From memory, the tailgate stuff also came from the devils garden book. It also described what Jane was wearing on the night she disappeared, namely, blue corderoy jacket,blue jeans and dark coloured top which differs really from her light clothing seen in the cctv footage greeting MM. Anyone's thoughts on this?
 
"The body of the second victim Jane Rimmer, 23, was found in scrub ... Rimmer's naked body was found lying face down in swampy scrub"

How do you think Jane Rimmer came to be dumped face down? Was her body purposefuly placed that way?
 
The bigger question for me was why CG was fully dressed.

JR something like this: abduct, force to undress, rape, kill, put in boot, dump body as is, keep a few souvenirs, dispose of clothes

CG: abduct, start to rape and work out she is on her period, put clothes back on ????? Doesn't seem right

Maybe: abduct, use gun or knife to control while driving to ritual spot, tell her he is going to rape her and let her go during the drive, she's now aware he is probably the CSK and maybe fights like mad so he uses a weapon, once he has overcome her she tells him she has her period so she can't have sex, the CSK potentially having no real knowledge about sex either believes it or is disgusted by menstruation so her asks her to prove it, she pulls down her pants, the mouse is in the house, she zips up and her fate is sealed. A potential scenario that explains why she was fully clothed.
 
"The body of the second victim Jane Rimmer, 23, was found in scrub ... Rimmer's naked body was found lying face down in swampy scrub"

How do you think Jane Rimmer came to be dumped face down? Was her body purposefuly placed that way?
She was simply dragged from the vehicle by both arms and then dragged to the side of the road. It just so happened she was on her stomach when being dragged. All imo of course
 
The bigger question for me was why CG was fully dressed.

JR something like this: abduct, force to undress, rape, kill, put in boot, dump body as is, keep a few souvenirs, dispose of clothes

CG: abduct, start to rape and work out she is on her period, put clothes back on ????? Doesn't seem right

Maybe: abduct, use gun or knife to control while driving to ritual spot, tell her he is going to rape her and let her go during the drive, she's now aware he is probably the CSK and maybe fights like mad so he uses a weapon, once he has overcome her she tells him she has her period so she can't have sex, the CSK potentially having no real knowledge about sex either believes it or is disgusted by menstruation so her asks her to prove it, she pulls down her pants, the mouse is in the house, she zips up and her fate is sealed. A potential scenario that explains why she was fully clothed.

I'm more inclined to think the abduction was sexually motivated but Ciara put up massive amount of resistance, this rattled the CSK and he hit her over the head knocking her unconscious. This has put him off any further sex attack as he is a power orientated rapist and would not get aroused by doing that. So he kills her and dumps her body. If she was menstruating that was purely a coincidence.
 
I'm more inclined to think the abduction was sexually motivated but Ciara put up massive amount of resistance, this rattled the CSK and he hit her over the head knocking her unconscious. This has put him off any further sex attack as he is a power orientated rapist and would not get aroused by doing that. So he kills her and dumps her body. If she was menstruating that was purely a coincidence.
Let's say the CSK is in the car with a gun or knife. Would she try and fight if he had a gun? Maybe I guess. She would have twigged the abductor is most likely the CSK and would kill her anyway. But if it's in the car and he had a gun or knife he would have had to drop it and grab the fire poker (or whatever it was). Maybe she's stayed calm and as soon as he's got her out of the car and stopped using the weapon (the weapon is for controlling whilst driving only) she makes her move? A lot of unanswered questions.
 
1. I have a source that is not DM's book. I have told you this before. I have verified my source. The question isn't whether I am mistaken about my source, but whether I'm telling the truth or not.
2. I will not reveal my source to you or anyone else. I understand that because there are a lot of people who tend to come here and make up lies that there is an obligation to back up claims. I understand this and that's why I have presented it as a hypothetical to discuss.
3. Given it's a hypothetical, I'm unsure why every time I try to discuss it (as a hypothetical) you try and shut it down. Perhaps you are mad at me because I exposed a few fibs you told?
4. Have you ever considered why you are happy to take some new information (i.e. fire poker) at face value but not something I have said?
5. Have you ever considered that I have some leanings in this case (LW, pick up theory, single perp) but none of the information I have provided backs up my theory? Surely if I were a liar, or one of the time-waster types who seem to constantly infiltrate these threads, I'd come out with a different lie that back my theories? Its on record that I previously believed the girls were strangled for the same logic you think they were (wouldn't be surprised if you were rehashing an earlier theory of mine and you don't know it was me you got it from).
6. Literally hundreds of people have approached me since I started the BF thread. Most are posters but some are outsiders. Without big noting myself, because I'm probably the most prolific poster (that is of sane mind) a lot of traffic comes my way. Guess who I don't pass it on to.

So please, take the hint and stand aside.
I believe the girls are strangled. I only entertain the firepoker theory and the theory that Ciara was hit in the head with an object because people like your self like to continue to state this information as fact without actually stating a genuine source, it is nothing but conjecture, but lets entertain the theory as being fact seeing you believe it so much so, 'hypothetically'

The other theory you keep repeating over and over is your main one, the one that comes from you and you alone, the originator of the theory that the girls had their throats cut as fact, due to insect activity (Also in Debbies Book), so lets just say your source is genuine, hypothetically of course, then we can look at the CSK in a number of different ways that still incorporate these two unfounded theories (with no genuine source), that may infact be true, however if you are in fact genuine, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt with this post, you must remember not only has there been a theory that the throats were cut/strangled/had their feet cut at the Achilles to demobilise, and even the spikes to the head/skull theory that was repeated in the early years, so its hard to take people seriously when they offer nothing genuine as a source/resource to state their argument.

If the two theories are genuine above then this is a possible scenario:

Like what you said, the early attacks were failed blitz attacks that may be linked, I think they are, or atleast a few, maybe or maybe not the Taxi incidents, and there is no media source/articles to even back a couple of those occurrences of earlier attacks we keep presenting as fact eg. The two girls raped (possibly at the same time) or the same night at the same location -You would have expected the police to have been right onto that and be at the crime scene taking evidence if they were on the same night at different times.. I have failed to find articles about some of the other attacks? The attack of the girl behind HJ's anyone know where that came from? But if this is our man he is violent and likes to strike with force, He attempted to pull a girl out at a stop sign by the subway (possibly) if that was attack is genuine too. So my theory is he likes to strike from away from his vehicle, somewhere where the vehicle is discreetly hidden not out in the open for people to see and identify (eg, a car park behind a store), I also think he would have regularly changed car parks as to not raise suspicion. I think the CSK would have been patient and lurked around late at night on foot in dark areas without encountering anyone, but becoming more familiar with the surrounds and area late at night in the Claremont CBD and been incredibly comfortable about launching an attack.

I think the CSK waited in a secluded area, similar to Karrakatta, whether he put something over the victims head, or bound the victim, I do not know for these CSK attacks, but he is obviously a strong individual who strikes from nowhere with incredible force and is easily capable of disarming or severely injuring a female with a swift blow/tackle before then choking them unconscious or tieing them up whilst wounded and transporting them to his rape location/kill location depending on what he wanted to do with the victims, and whether he escalated to full blown murder and decided not to bother with raping Ciara. The Karrakatta rape victim said she did not see him coming, so he obviously hides from view and has a car parked either nearby or out of sight. Once he has attacked his victim he transports them either bound/strangled, or injured from a swift head blow (punch/weapon, or maybe this firepoker). From what we understand in this forum and not from any genuine source thats been revealed, but a source from some posters who think they have legitimate connections and inside knowledge of the case that Ciara Glennon had a severe head blow and we also know from media reports she was fully clothed.

I think Sarah Spiers was raped then dumped and hidden and because of this the CSK felt anxiety/ exposed, because the time he took to drive to the location (Possibly further south than the other victim) and dig a grave site almost got him caught / or feeling like he could have been caught, so he changed from hiding the body in the ground to just dumping the body and doing a runner. Sarah was probably abducted from a car park near the phone booth, and the CSK just waited for a stray female for most of the night and then swiftly performed his blitz attack and drove off. Sarah may have been raped near the abduction site (possibly Karakatta or another park (To change up locations)) how she died we will never know.

When the CSK abducted Jane (Not sure if he failed with any abductions between Sarah and Jane, I think the womans head being bashed was around this time so may have been a failed attempt) I believe he took her to the kill spot inside the vehicle (Not the boot, maybe on the backseat for convenience), this could be anywhere nearby, maybe Karrakatta or another park somewhere, he then raped her and decided to strangle her and transport her dead body to the dump site, she may have woken up from not being quite killed and he has pulled over near the dump site, slit her throat, and then dragged her (or thrown her in the already made plastic lined boot) to the dump location. Lots of rain has hidden the evidence, he threw some sand over the blood anyways and she drained out pretty quickly and the mess was contained.

With Ciara he may have either escalated and just wanted to kill her, maybe raping was too risky, he loved the infamy so wanted the official verdict as 'serial killer' 3 kills to the media, and decided to perform a very powerful strike/atack on Ciara as she walked along the road, he was in a relatively secluded spot a fair distance from anyone, or got lucky and happened to be parked up doing something when she just happened to walk passed, he quickly jumped into action, maybe jumped from his vehicle and striked her with a weapon (The fire poker claimed here all the time that has no media reports behind it but may be true) or maybe he just king hit her, dragged her into the vehicle, she may have looked dead or been completly passed out, he might have or may not have attempted to strangle her (Only Jane was reported by a media source that may or may not be true as being strangled) this may have been to ensure she didn't wake up, then transported her directly to the dump site and again sliced her throat near the dump site, threw some sand /leaves over the area, and then attempted to carry her or drag her to the location, steal whatever items, dump/bury or burn clothing somewhere discreet (Including the CSK's own if blood from the victim was on it) and drive back to his home.
 
I'm more inclined to think the abduction was sexually motivated but Ciara put up massive amount of resistance, this rattled the CSK and he hit her over the head knocking her unconscious. This has put him off any further sex attack as he is a power orientated rapist and would not get aroused by doing that. So he kills her and dumps her body. If she was menstruating that was purely a coincidence.

I agree, I think ciara may have been the hero who spooked the CSK out of taking any more women. Also if the information about the fire poker is accurate, that to me is a sign that things didn't go to plan, maybe she even tried to use the poker to defend herself and escape that's how it came into play.IMO.
 
I agree, I think ciara may have been the hero who spooked the CSK out of taking any more women. Also if the information about the fire poker is accurate, that to me is a sign that things didn't go to plan, maybe she even tried to use the poker to defend herself and escape that's how it came into play.IMO.

That may very well be the case and a struggle/fight broke out and he had to use a weapon to subdue her, possibly almost kill her.

I think it would have been far too risky to kill her nearby with a knife, but if the knife theory is correct then just maybe he dumped her the next night, very risky so more than likely the same night so you would expect the bodies to have a fair amount of undried blood on them and been really messy to move.

I think the throat cut would have to have been near the dumpsite and was done strictly to ensure the victims were dead and were not going to become living witnesses (maybe if he intended to choke and kill thr Karrakatta victim and she woke up he was alot more reluctant to allow another possible witness).
 
Bart, can you confirm whether it is both CSK victims you know to have had their throats cut, or just Ciara? I am wondering whether Ciara's was done because she thought back and he was so enraged, or he couldnt/wouldnt have sex with her for some reason he may have decided to add the throat cut to the head wound through nothing but utter rage and frustration. If you know that both were cut it would imply he may have done it as part of his final ritual to ensure they were completly dead, or just done to hide a potential witness and ensure their death (possibly because of what happened with Karrakatta)

Thoughts?
 
She was simply dragged from the vehicle by both arms and then dragged to the side of the road. It just so happened she was on her stomach when being dragged. All imo of course
The easiest way to carry someone is to have them facing you with your arms under their armpits, and to walk backwards dragging them. Arms don't articulate backwards at the shoulder very well, and the spine and hips don't bend backwards. Only the knees. It can be a fairly easy carry. Carrying someone any other way, especially over rough ground is very difficult otherwise.

(I was taught fire rescue in the military.)
 
That may very well be the case and a struggle/fight broke out and he had to use a weapon to subdue her, possibly almost kill her.

I think it would have been far too risky to kill her nearby with a knife, but if the knife theory is correct then just maybe he dumped her the next night, very risky so more than likely the same night so you would expect the bodies to have a fair amount of undried blood on them and been really messy to move.

I think the throat cut would have to have been near the dumpsite and was done strictly to ensure the victims were dead and were not going to become living witnesses (maybe if he intended to choke and kill thr Karrakatta victim and she woke up he was alot more reluctant to allow another possible witness).

I'm reading a book about the WW2 battle on Okinawa, and the author reported that blood pools were still clearly present on sand a week after someone had been shot and bled out. You wouldn't want blood pools in the middle of Karra, or anywhere someone might stumble over them, unless you had a way of hiding them really well. A grate over a flowing drain? Most of the big government departments have large vehicle storage depots that would presumably be totally deserted on weekends. They wouldn't be a bad location for some nocturnal activities if you could get access, but the blood is still a problem. Maybe if they had on site water storage (for water carts), and you could just open the big valve and flush it all away.

To me, beating someone over the head with a fire poker and cutting their throat sounds like someone who is really, really, scared, or really, really, angry about something.

Face it, if you wanted sex in Perth you could just go rent it. A little bit of hand action would be OK, and if you left a nice gift afterwards you wouldn't get in too much trouble. Right? But if you are killing people you have issues. Usually abuse as a child. I think he might actually be afraid of women, because they have always been mean to him.

We have a pretty twisted individual. He wants the pretty girls for his sex, but then he is so disgusted with himself, and them, that he has to kill them. I wonder if maybe he is scared that if he doesn't shut them up permanently Mum will find out, and give him a hard smack and no icecream that week. Maybe even not let him buy his lunch. Maybe his handies aren't enough, but Mum has warned him off the real thing until he gets married. He isn't particularly scared of the police, he thinks he is smarter than them (he has been so far), but I think he might be really scared of his Mum and what she might say if she found out he was sticking his thing in those girls.

And just imagine what would have happened if she did find out he had been doing things? He would have had to have come straight home from work, and been confined to his room for the next twenty years. Definitely no icecream for him. How old would Mum be now though? She must be really getting on...
 
Since joining 2 weeksor so ago. One thing has been playing on my mind. I'm interested in sensible replies, not trolls.
With the mention of the blitz attack, is there any chance the car had every door except the drivers one with the child lock mechanism in place? May tie in with that lady that escaped before the Claremont murders, by jumping out of the car. Maybe this was the CSK's way of minimizing risk and learning from a previous mistake.
 
Here is a scenario:
SS was little. Not a fighter. Unsuspecting. He would have thought he was big time. A true killer. Hard.

But, like the girl in the alleyway, I think JR fought back. She looks to me like a fighter. Mum was a barmaid, she worked in daycare, so no silver spoon in her mouth. I reckon she might have whipped his *advertiser censored*, and her clothes ended up covered in his blood, and he had to really dispose of them properly. Then he just wanted to be done with it all, dumped the body, and bolted as fast as he could.

I suspect that with CG he wasn't taking any more chances and went straight in with the poker, scared he was going to get another good kicking. Maybe she put up a fight too, and that really frightened him. An Irish lawyer knowing what happened to SS and JR? She would pick her moment, and fight if she could. Like a wild cat. Once again, dump the body somewhere, and just run.

After that I think he might have become scared having had a couple of real near misses, and realizing that he was on the police radar decided to retire and consider himself lucky that he didn't get caught or take a real beating from one of the girls.
 
To me, beating someone over the head with a fire poker and cutting their throat sounds like someone who is really, really, scared, or really, really, angry about something.

Face it, if you wanted sex in Perth you could just go rent it. A little bit of hand action would be OK, and if you left a nice gift afterwards you wouldn't get in too much trouble. Right? But if you are killing people you have issues. Usually abuse as a child. I think he might actually be afraid of women, because they have always been mean to him.
If anger was an issue the CSK would probably have hit the girls repeatedly, and potentially he may not have been an organised killer. I'd say it's more likely his main motivation is he's a rapist and gets off on domination and control.

We have a pretty twisted individual. He wants the pretty girls for his sex, but then he is so disgusted with himself, and them, that he has to kill them. I wonder if maybe he is scared that if he doesn't shut them up permanently Mum will find out, and give him a hard smack and no icecream that week. Maybe even not let him buy his lunch. Maybe his handies aren't enough, but Mum has warned him off the real thing until he gets married. He isn't particularly scared of the police, he thinks he is smarter than them (he has been so far), but I think he might be really scared of his Mum and what she might say if she found out he was sticking his thing in those girls.

And just imagine what would have happened if she did find out he had been doing things? He would have had to have come straight home from work, and been confined to his room for the next twenty years. Definitely no icecream for him. How old would Mum be now though? She must be really getting on...
Let's make sure we keep our eyes and minds open. I'm a fan of LW but that doesn't mean it's him. There's other worthy suspects who are in the public domain and possibly some that are not.
 
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