Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #6

[elastic]

Just so everyone is aware I know for 100% certainty that the WA Police back in around 2010/2011/2012 went around to every single owner of every panel van ever owned around the time of karrakatta and CSK and requested a DNA sample.

This happened for a number of years untill they found every owner (can not confirm if every owner was ever found). So the police have a pretty good idea of who had the panel vans.. now they need to work out who had access to these panel vans.

 

[Bartholemeus]

5 minutes

Thanks for the maps but I grew up locally and am familiar with every single street, laneway, park and river frontage on those maps you provided.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Just so everyone is aware I know for 100% certainty that the WA Police back in around 2010/2011/2012 went around to every single owner of every panel van ever owned around the time of karrakatta and CSK and requested a DNA sample.

This happened for a number of years untill they found every owner (can not confirm if every owner was ever found). So the police have a pretty good idea of who had the panel vans.. now they need to work out who had access to these panel vans.

They don't know it was a panel van. Could have been a van van. Those ones with the sliding side doors.

Thinks about it; victim is bagged and can't see attacker or car. Thinks it's a van, maybe a pv. There is no way of distinguishing it to be a PV. If she thought she was in a roomy area - could be a van, pv or hilux. If there was a drop tray could be a pv, could be a hilux. Unless she saw the vehicle, it would be impossible to tell.

 

[elastic]

They don't know it was a panel van. Could have been a van van. Those ones with the sliding side doors.

Thinks about it; victim is bagged and can't see attacker or car. Thinks it's a van, maybe a pv. There is no way of distinguishing it to be a PV. If she thought she was in a roomy area - could be a van, pv or hilux. If there was a drop tray could be a pv, could be a hilux. Unless she saw the vehicle, it would be impossible to tell.

Let me repeat this because i can confirm it.

Every PANEL VAN owner around the time of the karrakatta and CSK attacks was interviewed and a DNA sample was asked to be provided. They also interviewed each panel van owner about karrakatta only and never let known the CSK link. It was apparently an inquiry into a cold case, karrakatta.

This happened in 2010/2011 and 2012. The link was made public years later. No one who was interviewed at there premises was ever asked anything about CSK. They kept that to themselves.

I know of two people interviewed. The police were vague and didnt ask too many specific questions. Once they had the informatiom they left. They did say every owner was being interviewed for every panel van.

The police atleast felt certain enough to make a link to the panel van around 5-6 years back so i would assume they know a little more than what we have read in the media.

 

[elastic]

They don't know it was a panel van. Could have been a van van. Those ones with the sliding side doors.

Thinks about it; victim is bagged and can't see attacker or car. Thinks it's a van, maybe a pv. There is no way of distinguishing it to be a PV. If she thought she was in a roomy area - could be a van, pv or hilux. If there was a drop tray could be a pv, could be a hilux. Unless she saw the vehicle, it would be impossible to tell.

The original description was ' commercial van' which can still mean a panel van as they were used commercially at times. Also its very easy to tell a van from a panel van. Sit inside a van and try and stand up.. success. Try standing inside a panel van.

Now ask the victim to identify this littlw detail and u can easily narrow it down to panel van / station wagon.. especially with the boot doors they had which would make the vehicle even more identifiable.

 

[Psi]

If the offender is remorseful after the crime, then perhaps he wants the girls returned to their family. It doesn't look like he went to much effort to hide the girls, more like was trying to conceal his activity at the site (in case someone drives past). Perhaps something was left at the site to indicate his regret? Maybe the straight line is a clue to Sarah's location without putting himself at risk of detection. Perhaps he is surprised that she hasn't been located.

 

[Nugget77]

Why do you think this case has never been solved (question for anyone that cares to answer)?

 

[88mph]

If you look at the aerial photos of the two sites where Jane and Ciara were found, you will notice that they were both unsealed roads. They were both sealed shortly after. So, this suggests that whoever killed these girls and dumped them knew that the roads were about to be sealed and that the bodies would be found, since they were laid out on the ground covered with foliage, rather than buried. I have previously written, on other blogs, of the line between Jane and Ciara and how it runs through the corner of St Quentin Ave and Bayview Ave. So it can definitely be stated that the killer researched these locations prior to using them. So, who would know about these plans for the road sealing? Surveyors leap to my mind first, since the killer laid the girls in specific locations EXACTLY 180 degrees to each other. Could the killer be a Surveyor who has been contracted either by the State Govt or Local Government? A Surveyor could work out these locations in his sleep. I wonder if there are any Surveyors Bench Marks near these locations.

Others who might know about the roads could be contractors delivering material, Council planning managers, Town Planners.

Something else to mull over. If you extend the line in both directions, you will find that as it runs south, it crosses through the centre of Collie where Lisa Mott disappeared in Oct 1980 and it also passes very close to Lake Navarino where Annette Deverall was found. She disappeared 29 days before Lisa Mott from Mandurah. Extend the line north and it finishes at a point south of Exmouth intersecting the Tropic of Capricorn.

Also each dumping site was, using the UTM measurements, near a grid line. The grid line for Jane is on Millar road, so rather than dump her in an open area, she was dumped on Woolcoot Rd near a creek. But that spot is still in the actual line between the sites. The same for Pippidinie Rd. Here also the grid line is on the road, so Ciara was dumped in the bush nearby, but still on the line between her and Jane. So with that sort of data, we can draw a profile of where to look for Sarah.

First it must be on a road with a grid line. Then it must be in a spot where the line runs through Bayview. It must also be in an isolated or secluded area. Possibly within an hours drive of Claremont. The cops carried out a search at the Spectacles in their search for Sarah. This area is also on a grid line between Thomas Rd and Anketell Rd, Mandogalup.

In The West, when Ciara was found, the reporter mentioned that her body was found in an area similar to her surname, the same as Jane was. I can put Glennon alongside Eglington, but I can't see where Jane Rimmer fits in the general area where she was found.

More to follow.

Pipidinny road was sealed FYI. There's a tiny (dead end) dirt track which comes off the road.

 

[88mph]

The original description was ' commercial van' which can still mean a panel van as they were used commercially at times. Also its very easy to tell a van from a panel van. Sit inside a van and try and stand up.. success. Try standing inside a panel van.

Now ask the victim to identify this littlw detail and u can easily narrow it down to panel van / station wagon.. especially with the boot doors they had which would make the vehicle even more identifiable.

I'm a little dubious on this clue.

For one she was blindfolded. Secondly, and no offence to women, they can't differentiate cars at the best of times. Well my misses anyway.

I believe there is mention of a tailgate, but this could easily have been a ute with a canopy as previously suggested.

Would love to know more on this topic.

 

[CSK?]

Why do you think this case has never been solved (question for anyone that cares to answer)?

I think a number of reasons have come together over the years as to why the case has not been solved, The CSK was an obvious planner, he was able to to abduct these girls in and around popular nightspots without a single witness to sight or sound. But more than that is an absolute failure by police, losing evidence, putting all eggs into one basket in regards to a suspect for a few years, failing to release video footage as part of a public appeal for info for years and years, having a head of task force that framed people in the past e.t.c e.t.c

As calculated and successful as the CSK was/is at his craft the utter police incompetence has done more to this case not being solved than anything, I know it is police procedure not to release evidence and let it be known what they have, but I feel if they were a bit more fourth coming about evidence they have including potential POI's and where the are at with the case that this would in some may lead to the generation of new lines of enquiry, even something as simple as confirming or denying report published in the news would help.

 

[Mo Joe]

If we assume that the location of JR and CG is a clue to the location of SS.... perhaps locate the exact half way point on the line.... and then head east for the exact same distance? Where is that? Somewhere near Mundaring Weir perhaps?

 

[Bartholemeus]

Let me repeat this because i can confirm it.

Happy for you to do so.

Every PANEL VAN owner around the time of the karrakatta and CSK attacks was interviewed and a DNA sample was asked to be provided. They also interviewed each panel van owner about karrakatta only and never let known the CSK link. It was apparently an inquiry into a cold case, karrakatta.

This happened in 2010/2011 and 2012. The link was made public years later. No one who was interviewed at there premises was ever asked anything about CSK. They kept that to themselves.

Here you suggest you have some sort of inside link because you know inside information of interview questions across the board. But below you strongly hint you have your information because you knew two interviewees?

I know of two people interviewed. The police were vague and didnt ask too many specific questions. Once they had the informatiom they left. They did say every owner was being interviewed for every panel van.

The police atleast felt certain enough to make a link to the panel van around 5-6 years back so i would assume they know a little more than what we have read in the media.

I'm curious. We've been talking about the Karra attack and the panel van for some time. You've been posting for some time. Why didn't you drop this information earlier?

Also curious is that you know 2 people who had panel vans in 1996. They were rare as hen's teeth back then. Maybe you hung out with a bunch of stoner dudes back then but what are the chances you15 years later you know 2 guys who drove pv's in 1995?

 

[Nugget77]

Happy for you to do so.


Here you suggest you have some sort of inside link because you know inside information of interview questions across the board. But below you strongly hint you have your information because you knew two interviewees?



I'm curious. We've been talking about the Karra attack and the panel van for some time. You've been posting for some time. Why didn't you drop this information earlier?

Also curious is that you know 2 people who had panel vans in 1996. They were rare as hen's teeth back then. Maybe you hung out with a bunch of stoner dudes back then but what are the chances you15 years later you know 2 guys who drove pv's in 1995?

A fair few people I know had Panel Van's in the mid 90's. They weren't that rare. Plenty of surfers and tradesmen still had them (although they were becoming more rare).

 

[Bartholemeus]

The original description was ' commercial van' which can still mean a panel van as they were used commercially at times. Also its very easy to tell a van from a panel van. Sit inside a van and try and stand up.. success. Try standing inside a panel van.

Now ask the victim to identify this littlw detail and u can easily narrow it down to panel van / station wagon.. especially with the boot doors they had which would make the vehicle even more identifiable.

She was hooded, tied and forced into the vehicle. I doubt she was trying to stand up. Even so, it could have been a hilux. So I'm sceptical police were confident enough it was a pv to warrant tracking all the owners down.

 

[Mo Joe]

.....

 

[Mo Joe]

Why do you think this case has never been solved (question for anyone that cares to answer)?

..........because it's bigger than SS, JR and CG I think.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Why do you think this case has never been solved (question for anyone that cares to answer)?

1. Lack of DNA and other forensic evidence. The bodies lay for 19 and 54 days. Very hard to find forensic evidence. If they had it from the start it would have compressed the last 20 years. Main POI would have been ruled in or out earlier and they would have been looking for new suspect while the case was fresh.

2. Bungled surveillance and arrest operation of LW. They shouldn't have used a decoy at all. They shouldn't have let him find out he was under surveillance.

3. The taxi-driver muster. They didn't have DNA but made a bit song and political dance about it. Wasted time. If that taxi driver was in that group they wouldn't have discovered him anyway.

4. Caporn. I guess they felt who promoted him thought the sun shone out of his corn hole, but I bet plenty in the force knew he was a corner cutter of little substance who would cause great damage.

5. Gaps too wide between the release of info to the public. If they didn't waste as much time on the taxis and either ruled LW in or out quicker, they realise they might have nothing and release info sooner. 12 years was way too late to release info about the CG car and MM. Could have done that 1999-ish.

It's really hard to tell what Macro got right and what they got wrong. If LW is not the CSK then he's hottest beaten favourite in history. He's the Taj Burrow of serial killers.

 

[elastic]

Happy for you to do so.


Here you suggest you have some sort of inside link because you know inside information of interview questions across the board. But below you strongly hint you have your information because you knew two interviewees?



I'm curious. We've been talking about the Karra attack and the panel van for some time. You've been posting for some time. Why didn't you drop this information earlier?

Also curious is that you know 2 people who had panel vans in 1996. They were rare as hen's teeth back then. Maybe you hung out with a bunch of stoner dudes back then but what are the chances you15 years later you know 2 guys who drove pv's in 1995?

They were not rare. I hung around claremont alot. I dont come from the area but used there pubs all the time. Steves in nedlands and also the conti etc. You claim is was a quite insular scene but to my group of friends we use to roll in frequently from outside the western suburbs.

I am a surfer. I Know alot of people with panel vans.. thats not to say they owned them at the time of karrakatta but i know of atleast 2 people who did and i have been in atleast one of the vehicles owned around the time of karrakatta. We use to take his car down the beach all the time. I use to swag it whilst he slept in the van when we camped down near busselton lates 80s early 90s. Anyways he is not a suspect. Or atleast not aware of being one.

The police were very vague asked where he was during the week karrakatta occured. He couldnt remember. They said it was an investigation into a cold case and they were taking all samples for a historical rape that occured. He gave up a sample and they left. No mention of CSK.

You often claim you know the area all too well. But i can assure you alot of what you say isnt entirely accurate eg. Only locals used claremont pubs. Well i was there too all throughout the 90s, my mates were there, and i live around 25km away.

I heard off an old friend i fell out with and just recently spoke to at a pub i was at near claremont ironically (cottosloe) that he too was interviewed but there was a year gap between the two. We had a laugh because i told him that my other mate got interviewed too. I dont speak with him but it was quite good to see him after a number of years unexpectedly.

I havent bothered to share because i dont post here anymore. This case is boring me now and i dont find it that facinating. It comes down to police incompetence and cases like that get a little disinteresting aftet a while.

Im not here to argue. I didnt intend to make a habit of posting here because i am done with the whole CSK debacle.. the guy isnt even on the same league as a serial killer like the East Area Rapist so its lost alot of appeal.

This was purely to share. Take it as fact or fiction whether it helps or not. But to me it confirms the vehicle or atleast what the police think the vehicle is and i thought that would be good for this thread seeing i cant prove anything without revealing there actual identitys which i wont and even then it still not actual proof. It is facinating though.

<modsnip>

 

[Nugget77]

They were not rare. I hung around claremont alot. I dont come from the area but used there pubs all the time. Steves in nedlands and also the conti etc. You claim is was a quite insular scene but to my group of friends we use to roll in frequently from outside the western suburbs.

I am a surfer. I Know alot of people with panel vans.. thats not to say they owned them at the time of karrakatta but i know of atleast 2 people who did and i have been in atleast one of the vehicles owned around the time of karrakatta. We use to take his car down the beach all the time. I use to swag it whilst he slept in the van when we camped down near busselton lates 80s early 90s. Anyways he is not a suspect. Or atleast not aware of being one.

The police were very vague asked where he was during the week karrakatta occured. He couldnt remember. They said it was an investigation into a cold case and they were taking all samples for a historical rape that occured. He gave up a sample and they left. No mention of CSK.

You often claim you know the area all too well. But i can assure you alot of what you say isnt entirely accurate eg. Only locals used claremont pubs. Well i was there too all throughout the 90s, my mates were there, and i live around 25km away.

I heard off an old friend i fell out with and just recently spoke to at a pub i was at near claremont ironically (cottosloe) that he too was interviewed but there was a year gap between the two. We had a laugh because i told him that my other mate got interviewed too. I dont speak with him but it was quite good to see him after a number of years unexpectedly.

I havent bothered to share because i dont post here anymore. This case is boring me now and i dont find it that facinating. It comes down to police incompetence and cases like that get a little disinteresting aftet a while.

Im not here to argue. I didnt intend to make a habit of posting here because i am done with the whole CSK debacle.. the guy isnt even on the same league as a serial killer like the East Area Rapist so its lost alot of appeal.

This was purely to share. Take it as fact or fiction whether it helps or not. But to me it confirms the vehicle or atleast what the police think the vehicle is and i thought that would be good for this thread seeing i cant prove anything without revealing there actual identitys which i wont and even then it still not actual proof. It is facinating though.

<modsnip>

Agree re: your point that a lot of people from all over Perth used to go to Claremont to party. Particularly during the week. From memory I think the clarification was that at weekends it was more locals. Not sure whether this is the case or not because like you most of my trips to Claremont in the 90's were as a student on Wednesday to Steve's or if we kicked on Club Bay View. Think this was fairly common. We were either out in Leederville on Wednesday nights or occassionally would head to Claremont.

 

[elastic]

Agree re: your point that a lot of people from all over Perth used to go to Claremont to party. Particularly during the week. From memory I think the clarification was that at weekends it was more locals. Not sure whether this is the case or not because like you most of my trips to Claremont in the 90's were as a student on Wednesday to Steve's or if we kicked on Club Bay View. Think this was fairly common. We were either out in Leederville on Wednesday nights or occassionally would head to Claremont.

Yes i am aware steves was popular wednesdays but it still didnt stop me and a number of friends using the pub on other nights and going to the claremont pub scene on fridays and other nights (the friday night pub scene in perth was terrible). There were a number of groups that came into the western suburbs throughout the week and weekend to enjoy the pub scene, me included. I did spend alot of time in cottosloe though and enjoyed those pubs just as much during the day.