Australia Australia - Claremont SK, 1996-97, Perth, WA - #14

[Canning Vale]

CV could you please help locate old abandoned wells in Perth and surrounds? Some may be registered Historical points of interest (PtOi), while others may be located on private property but close to roads and easily seen by passers-by.
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Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

Spooks,

Thanks for the post. It does seem more probable that an undiscovered body may have been placed under the ground. Tomorrow I’ll contact the SRO to seek any historic registers for wells and standpipes, then feedback the information.

Offhand, TROVE newspaper articles, contain historic advertisements of properties ‘for sale’ advertising the ground area, its assets and if it contained a well or if a government standpipe was close-by.

The pioneers’ wells were usually constructed of brick, containing an internal ladder and ledge to keep butter etc. Once the scheme water was connected, the well was usually filled in with unwanted furniture etc. Current day bores are licensed with The Water & Rivers Commission (production bores).

The larger government standpipes interest me because they were easily identified, with a small reservoir above and a shaft below the ground. Situated along a street and shared by the community. Perhaps the local shire was responsible for its removal.

Other infrastructure within the ground would be: disconnected septic tanks, disused water, sewerage and drainage pipework (dead main). When property gets developed, the developers usually leave pipework and septic tanks within the ground.

Are there any forum members who might be able to add any information to this matter?

 

[DRT]

Rottnest Trench is 44.5 km or 24 nmi west of Fremantle. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perth_Canyon
An average speedboat could achieve that in just over an hour at cruising speed of 20 knots.

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The at sea options would support theories of a pentagram theory or the cross theory that people have posted in the past. The Straight line theory that has previously been posted which I cannot find which was posted early in the year I believe that as the crow flies the distance there is a straight line between Wellard through the Claremont Hotel (halfway) and into Eglinton.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...h-Western-Australia-5&p=12644140#post12644140

The theory about the cross would indicate the ocean and East. From memory I am thinking distance as the crow flies was 41 odd km each way.

The JC discussion also put this as a point that maybe she could be one of the points.

I am putting these up because CV's opinions are similar to these and probably are worth discussion.

My personal opinion with regard to SS is that if there is a pattern being a pentagram or cross that you probably wouldn't go with the "at sea" option first because it is probably the hardest to execute assuming that SS is the first victim on the map. I can't remember from the discussions how KK fitted in as she was left for dead.

 

[Canning Vale]

Also are there any old abandoned factories, mills or warehouses where a body could be hidden in buildings, tanks, water tanks, or pits?
I'm thinking the accused may have possibly hidden a body somewhere that's secluded, but easily accessible by car and foot. Someplace that didn't require any digging or manual labour.

Just my thoughts of course....

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Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

Offhand KK comes to mind. It's near to Government Rds "proposed" holding place. Without going into detail KK is a secluded place without gates or security, plenty of holes already dug, plenty of sand. Nobody notices the extra odour. Perhaps room for two people! Nothing's impossible.

Will have a think, do some research and feedback information in due course.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Spooks,

Thanks for the post. It does seem more probable that an undiscovered body may have been placed under the ground. Tomorrow I’ll contact the SRO to seek any historic registers for wells and standpipes, then feedback the information.

Offhand, TROVE newspaper articles, contain historic advertisements of properties ‘for sale’ advertising the ground area, its assets and if it contained a well or if a government standpipe was close-by.

The pioneers’ wells were usually constructed of brick, containing an internal ladder and ledge to keep butter etc. Once the scheme water was connected, the well was usually filled in with unwanted furniture etc. Current day bores are licensed with The Water & Rivers Commission (production bores).

The larger government standpipes interest me because they were easily identified, with a small reservoir above and a shaft below the ground. Situated along a street and shared by the community. Perhaps the local shire was responsible for its removal.

Other infrastructure within the ground would be: disconnected septic tanks, disused water, sewerage and drainage pipework (dead main). When property gets developed, the developers usually leave pipework and septic tanks within the ground.

Are there any forum members who might be able to add any information to this matter?

Great pic of a water tank!


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

 

[Canning Vale]

Great pic of a water tank!


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

My thoughts are that below a water tank is a shaft/void.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Spooks,

Thanks for the post. It does seem more probable that an undiscovered body may have been placed under the ground. Tomorrow I’ll contact the SRO to seek any historic registers for wells and standpipes, then feedback the information.

Offhand, TROVE newspaper articles, contain historic advertisements of properties ‘for sale’ advertising the ground area, its assets and if it contained a well or if a government standpipe was close-by.

The pioneers’ wells were usually constructed of brick, containing an internal ladder and ledge to keep butter etc. Once the scheme water was connected, the well was usually filled in with unwanted furniture etc. Current day bores are licensed with The Water & Rivers Commission (production bores).

The larger government standpipes interest me because they were easily identified, with a small reservoir above and a shaft below the ground. Situated along a street and shared by the community. Perhaps the local shire was responsible for its removal.

Other infrastructure within the ground would be: disconnected septic tanks, disused water, sewerage and drainage pipework (dead main). When property gets developed, the developers usually leave pipework and septic tanks within the ground.

Are there any forum members who might be able to add any information to this matter?

CV- I don't know anything about standpipes, so thank you for highlighting this possibility. Great input!

I really think the accused would possibly prefer an 'easy' d-site for SS, whether or not the accused is responsible for SS we may never learn.
But if the d-site pattern is a drop and run with no real physical effort made to conceal body in a reasonably remote-ish location, then I suspect the accused did the same for any other possible victim/s.
So old wells, silos or tanks with decent ladder systems, or disused buildings all make sense as possible d-site locations.


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

 

[DRT]

CV- I don't know anything about standpipes, so thank you for highlighting this possibility. Great input!

I really think the accused would possibly prefer an 'easy' d-site for SS, whether or not the accused is responsible for SS we may never learn.
But if the d-site pattern is a drop and run with no real physical effort made to conceal body in a reasonably remote-ish location, then I suspect the accused did the same for any other possible victim/s.
So old wells, silos or tanks with decent ladder systems, or disused buildings all make sense as possible d-site locations.


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

A couple of us posted the 2 bodies in a grave theory a while ago. The initial suggestion was a freshly dug grave for burial the following day. My suggestion was perhaps digging up a freshly dug grave. Easy to dig up fresh soil and not going to be visited the next day. Several opinions including the one below suggested too risky.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...K-1996-97-Perth-WA-13&p=13180045#post13180045

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ralia-Claremont-SK-1996-97-Perth-WA-13/page65

 

[ApplePie80]

Question for those into SK stats - with respect to dumping patterns, how common is this technique?

Also, are there any relevant familial occupations/assets/links that could have been exploited in the process? I seem to remember mention of a family boat. And was there a family link to the cleaning fluids found?

 

[Canning Vale]

CV- I don't know anything about standpipes, so thank you for highlighting this possibility. Great input!

I really think the accused would possibly prefer an 'easy' d-site for SS, whether or not the accused is responsible for SS we may never learn.
But if the d-site pattern is a drop and run with no real physical effort made to conceal body in a reasonably remote-ish location, then I suspect the accused did the same for any other possible victim/s.
So old wells, silos or tanks with decent ladder systems, or disused buildings all make sense as possible d-site locations.
............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

I suppose we need to try and imagine, someones first kill. If he was really nervous perhaps the d-site was close by. From what I've read about SKs they're not regretful, so I'm not sure it he would have been nervous at all. Perhaps instinctively, someone might head for the closest secluded place. Only my thoughts and opinions.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

I suppose we need to try and imagine, someones first kill. If he was really nervous perhaps the d-site was close by. From what I've read about SKs they're not regretful, so I'm not sure it he would have been nervous at all. Perhaps instinctively, someone might head for the closest secluded place. Only my thoughts and opinions.

Maybe nervous about getting caught rather than nervous about the actual killing bit?
............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Question for those into SK stats - with respect to dumping patterns, how common is this technique?

Also, are there any relevant familial occupations/assets/links that could have been exploited in the process? I seem to remember mention of a family boat. And was there a family link to the cleaning fluids found?

I think previous threads discussed family fishing boats and any links to print businesses. I'm useless at using WS search function so I'm no help here sorry .


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

 

[petedavo.au]

In searching for SS, there's a few assumptions, that need to be verified IMO.
1. That she is deceased
2. That her disappearance is linked to the CSK case.
3. That the same person responsible for the disposal of JR and CG disposed of SS.
4. That the location of SS can be inferred from the discovery of JR and CG and predicted with any accuracy.



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[ESH]

No shaft or void below a water tank. Below a windmill which would then pump into a tank. Have seen old decomissioned mills where the shaft has been eroded by rain to create a sinkhole perhaps 1m diameter & 10m deep

 

[apoptosisfutz]

I agree petedavo...

IMO whoever is responsible for JR and CG is Definately responsible for SS. Who would go to Claremont after SS and do what was done to JR and CG? It dosen't make any sense if it was someone else to me...far too risky.

I also belive that SS is nowhere near Claremont, Wellard, Eglinton or Huntingdale. He didn't want them to be connected in any way.

Possibly the hills where there are wild boars....which is possibly why, sadly, SS hasn't been found.

In searching for SS, there's a few assumptions, that need to be verified IMO.
1. That she is deceased
2. That her disappearance is linked to the CSK case.
3. That the same person responsible for the disposal of JR and CG disposed of SS.
4. That the location of SS can be inferred from the discovery of JR and CG and predicted with any accuracy.



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[ApplePie80]

Have found a cleaning business near BE's stomping ground in which a certain TE was employed. Believe the timing matches and this could be related to cleaning fluid. Anyone with more time (CV?) or resources that can assist?

 

[Canning Vale]

No shaft or void below a water tank. Below a windmill which would then pump into a tank. Have seen old decomissioned mills where the shaft has been eroded by rain to create a sinkhole perhaps 1m diameter & 10m deep

ESH, thanks. With regard to a windmill shaft. Are the shafts very wide, and are they bricked up? They'd need to be as deep as the water table, and we can find that out from the Water & Rivers website. The government standpipes were really big and I don't remember always seeing a windmill attached.

 

[Canning Vale]

In searching for SS, there's a few assumptions, that need to be verified IMO.
1. That she is deceased
2. That her disappearance is linked to the CSK case.
3. That the same person responsible for the disposal of JR and CG disposed of SS.
4. That the location of SS can be inferred from the discovery of JR and CG and predicted with any accuracy.

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

Petedavo, good post thanks for the guidance. I've tried to answer your post.

1. WAPOL have referred to SS disappearance for 20 years, there's been no reported sightings of her and no access to her bank account.
2. SS disappeared from the same area as the other two victims (JR & CG), only a short timeframe beforehand and shouldn't be dismissed as a coincidence.
3. That's a difficult question, how can we establish whether or not the same person is responsible for the disappearance of SS - by locating the body.
4. I believe, if we fathom the holding site, we can predict the d-site with some accuracy, thus locating the body of SS.

 

[Canning Vale]

Have found a cleaning business near BE's stomping ground in which a certain TE was employed. Believe the timing matches and this could be related to cleaning fluid. Anyone with more time (CV?) or resources that can assist?

ApplePie80,
Great information. Will have a think and get back to you later today. I'm off shopping.

 

[Innerchild]

The at sea options would support theories of a pentagram theory or the cross theory that people have posted in the past. The Straight line theory that has previously been posted which I cannot find which was posted early in the year I believe that as the crow flies the distance there is a straight line between Wellard through the Claremont Hotel (halfway) and into Eglinton.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...h-Western-Australia-5&p=12644140#post12644140

The theory about the cross would indicate the ocean and East. From memory I am thinking distance as the crow flies was 41 odd km each way.

The JC discussion also put this as a point that maybe she could be one of the points.

I am putting these up because CV's opinions are similar to these and probably are worth discussion.

My personal opinion with regard to SS is that if there is a pattern being a pentagram or cross that you probably wouldn't go with the "at sea" option first because it is probably the hardest to execute assuming that SS is the first victim on the map. I can't remember from the discussions how KK fitted in as she was left for dead.

The Westerly at sea"" option could have been JC. Lining Cott beach up with the corner of Bay View and St Quentins (or the Conti) gives a directional line to Red Hill Auditorium.

Red Hill at exactly 33km used as a fixed navigational mark works for the other lines to go through. I am talking as the crow flies distance. 33km is exactly the distance JC was from the Conti mark as well.

 

[Moustachio]

About as intellectually rigorous as a Dan Brown thriller.