Australia - Khandalyce Pearce (Wynarka) and Karlie Pearce-Stevenson (Belanglo) #10

[JackHigh]

This is really bothering me - this whole scenario of Holdom and Karlie going to Belanglo and her ending up being killed there (I'm assuming this information is correct, which it may well not be, given the previous inconsistencies, but just working on this scenario).

"What would be serious enough to commit double murder to keep it quiet ..." The thought popped into my head - what if Karlie was pregnant and told Holdom whilst they were at Belanglo and he snapped, or indeed before they went to Belanglo, in which case Holdom may have already premeditated the outcome, or she was pregnant and opted for an abortion. I know this isn't a pleasant thought however, the stomping being so personal (if indeed, she was stomped on - I'm only going on what we know from the somewhat flaky media reports) and the area of the body where she was allegedly stomped on, made me wonder if it wasn't a very, very personal rage being inflicted on her.

As I said, sorry for the line of thought, but as we all know, there is nothing pleasant about murder, full stop. And there is never a pleasant motivation behind it.

All the above is viewed only as speculation of course.

Now this is a real possibility, especially if he had plans to head back to HP at some stage.

Its a new relationship, they have been on the road for weeks/months, mistakes can happen in the heat of the moment. Perhaps she fell pregnant and it didnt fit his plans.
It would also support the notion that Khandalyce was killed in a rage directed at her mother for 'giving him no choice' as referred to recently when discussing the possibility of indecent activity.

I wonder if pregnancy could be determined through DNA profiling?

 

[visioneye]

Have police said anything about an overdose? I wonder..

Has Karlie been hot shotted?

Good thought. My initial thoughts were that this would be unlikely as he could then just have dumped her in a public toilet etc and not have to kill her daughter.
However if your theory is incorporated with the "story" of K & K running away, then he would have to have disposed of their bodies where they cannot be easily found.

 

[crabstick]

It happens. women entrapped into dealing, then when they know too much, hotshot them

A guised murder

Maybe thats why the body was badly damaged? Stomped on, or whatever the coroners report stated in case she survived the overdose? Survived a coma?

She could have been sedated with anything GHB , Roofies, whatever meds

Quite often amphetamine users take sedatives to get some sleep, some end up with heroin addictions in the process

Hell, the killers may have reversed over her. Even then someone took over her bank accounts. A simple MO for someone on meth desperate for money

People with class 1 drug debts under $5000 are given petrol stations to rob by their debtors. Maybe Karlie needed be gone????

Not that I've heard. Interesting thought though.

 

[crabstick]

Police would immediately start looking for Khandles once Karlie was identified. Id say any family members would be straight onto other associates as soon they knew she was gone.

Throwing khandles to the side of the road exudes an air of arrogance, with total disregard for the contents

Good thought. My initial thoughts were that this would be unlikely as he could then just have dumped her in a public toilet etc and not have to kill her daughter.
However if your theory is incorporated with the "story" of K & K running away, then he would have to have disposed of their bodies where they cannot be easily found.

 

[JackHigh]

It happens. women entrapped into dealing, then when they know too much, hotshot them

A guised murder

Maybe thats why the body was badly damaged? Stomped on, or whatever the coroners report stated in case she survived the overdose? Survived a coma?

She could have been sedated with anything GHB , Roofies, whatever meds

Quite often amphetamine users take sedatives to get some sleep, some end up with heroin addictions in the process

Hell, the killers may have reversed over her. Even then someone took over her bank accounts. A simple MO for someone on meth desperate for money

People with class 1 drug debts under $5000 are given petrol stations to rob by their debtors. Maybe Karlie needed be gone????

BBM
I assume you mean reversed over her with a car, its actually the first thought i had when we were told she had stomping injuries.
Having the life crushed out by a car...

 

[crabstick]

Without seeing the scene, or the coroners report it could be any ol way. We are left to speculate.

But it was reported the body had been badly damaged. Motorbikes found the body, but was the body within vehicle access?

Id say Karlie wasnt dead, and someone has made sure she wasn't coming back. Then what have they done with Khandles? I try not to think about what may have happened. We wont speculate about it. [sub justice law]

BBM
I assume you mean reversed over her with a car, its actually the first thought i had when we were told she had stomping injuries.
Having the life crushed out by a car...

 

[Maggie_May]

The addition of steroids sure would make the "perfect" cocktail for rage...

Nissan Black motor I think. Popular model.



My utter speculation is;
Heavily drug affected possibly with steroids to keep the weight on. Premeditated murder after possibly being told the relationship wasn't going to keep going. Killed and took over the money. Cashed in the asset.

Drug affected is part the narcissism. Self interested in where there is drugs or money; or both. Only interests.

Typical behaviour is give engagement ring then milk them dry. Give them the drug, then come out with they have a debt to pay off when they want to leave. Own them once got them on the drug.

 

[Panda]

Now this is a real possibility, especially if he had plans to head back to HP at some stage.

Its a new relationship, they have been on the road for weeks/months, mistakes can happen in the heat of the moment. Perhaps she fell pregnant and it didnt fit his plans.
It would also support the notion that Khandalyce was killed in a rage directed at her mother for 'giving him no choice' as referred to recently when discussing the possibility of indecent activity.

I wonder if pregnancy could be determined through DNA profiling?

Yes, my thoughts too.

There is a process called tooth cementum annulation which extracts information from the teeth. See below:

"We tested sex-specific subsamples to quantify the possible influences due to different male and female physiologicalconditions. Former studies showed higher error rates for teeth extracted from females. Precisely how cementumsynthesis and mineralization are regulated to produce annual incremental lines is unknown, but almost certainly thecementum pattern results from the action of specific hormones and growth factors. Women experience greater fluxesin steroid hormone levels (at menarche, pregnancy, childbirth, and menopause) and calcium homeostasis (atpregnancy) than men, which could conceivably alter cementum synthesis and mineralization. However, our data donot show such an impact, as TCA errors occur equally for both sexes ... However, as suggested by Kagerer and Grupe ([2001]), the quality (e.g., width,apparent degree of mineralization) of the lines may be altered in women by such events as pregnancy and childbirth.This is an important issue of incremental line quality, and is the focus of ongoing studies in our laboratory." (BBM).

http://user.demogr.mpg.de/jwv/pdf/atest.pdf

It think it is possible, however, I don't think it's deemed accurate enough and isn't widely used at this stage. The impression I get is that it's still in the testing realm. However, I'm no expert - someone else may have more knowledge to add.

 

[Panda]

It happens. women entrapped into dealing, then when they know too much, hotshot them

A guised murder

Maybe thats why the body was badly damaged? Stomped on, or whatever the coroners report stated in case she survived the overdose? Survived a coma?

She could have been sedated with anything GHB , Roofies, whatever meds

Quite often amphetamine users take sedatives to get some sleep, some end up with heroin addictions in the process

Hell, the killers may have reversed over her. Even then someone took over her bank accounts. A simple MO for someone on meth desperate for money

People with class 1 drug debts under $5000 are given petrol stations to rob by their debtors. Maybe Karlie needed be gone????

The only problem I have with the scenario of her being run over by a car, is that the injuries would have been more extensive and cover a wider area of her body than just the rib area (I would have thought). I also would have expected the description would have reflected that type of injury, as opposed to being "stomped on". I'm presuming "stomped on" was information that someone picked up from court documents, which is fairly specific.

 

[Panda]

The addition of steroids sure would make the "perfect" cocktail for rage...

Yes I agree. I speculated some threads ago that ice + steroids would not make a good combination. Either/or could potentially have disastrous results.

 

[Maggie_May]

Probably doesn't match with the police reports of "horrific"/violent/stomped - which as previously mentioned all speak of a very personal rage

Have police said anything about an overdose? I wonder..

Has Karlie been hot shotted?

 

[Maggie_May]

The reversing over her certainly makes you think...and your observations on how the "drug world" of that kind operates certainly fit...I reckon you might be on to something here crabstick :'(

It happens. women entrapped into dealing, then when they know too much, hotshot them

A guised murder

Maybe thats why the body was badly damaged? Stomped on, or whatever the coroners report stated in case she survived the overdose? Survived a coma?

She could have been sedated with anything GHB , Roofies, whatever meds

Quite often amphetamine users take sedatives to get some sleep, some end up with heroin addictions in the process

Hell, the killers may have reversed over her. Even then someone took over her bank accounts. A simple MO for someone on meth desperate for money

People with class 1 drug debts under $5000 are given petrol stations to rob by their debtors. Maybe Karlie needed be gone????

 

[JackHigh]

Without seeing the scene, or the coroners report it could be any ol way. We are left to speculate.

But it was reported the body had been badly damaged. Motorbikes found the body, but was the body within vehicle access?

Id say Karlie wasnt dead, and someone has made sure she wasn't coming back. Then what have they done with Khandles? I try not to think about what may have happened. We wont speculate about it. [sub justice law]

BBM
Yes, you are quite right CS, we really shouldnt speculate if any of it is to the detriment of the case.
Thankyou for reminding me of this, as it is easy to get caught up in the puzzle, trying to fit this with that, and lose sight of the fact this is a terribly heinous crime, affecting many innocent people and must be treated with utmost respect and dignity.

 

[Freddo Frog]

One would wonder why he wouldnt take both to Belangelo then, why run the risk of returning to the ACT without Karlie to then go through it all again 5 days later.
I get what you are saying, im just wondering why he may want to seperate them on that occasion if they had the same fate.

True. I wish we knew the answers to to that. I still think he didn't plan on killing Karlie at the time of leaving for Belanglo. My initial thoughts were they planned to have some alone time or a 'just for kicks let's go to the forest' jaunt. I wonder what triggered him to kill her?

If she knew those types of things about him, why would she willingly leave Khandalyce with the carer and go with him to Belangelo.
I mean, if reports are correct that she was killed in the vacinity of the forest.

What would be serious enough to commit double murder to keep it quiet, but not enough of a concern for a young woman to leave her daughter behind and visit a place notorious with bad things.

I cant imagine a mother doing that if she suspected something untoward, i wouldnt be leaving her side.

All MOO.

Good point. Never thought of that. Karlie does strike me as being the type of strong woman, though, who would act on something on her own, to take on someone who she thought had wronged her, on impulse. I hope that she put up a fight until the end.

This is really bothering me - this whole scenario of Holdom and Karlie going to Belanglo and her ending up being killed there (I'm assuming this information is correct, which it may well not be, given the previous inconsistencies, but just working on this scenario).

"What would be serious enough to commit double murder to keep it quiet ..." The thought popped into my head - what if Karlie was pregnant and told Holdom whilst they were at Belanglo and he snapped, or indeed before they went to Belanglo, in which case Holdom may have already premeditated the outcome, or she was pregnant and opted for an abortion. I know this isn't a pleasant thought however, the stomping being so personal (if indeed, she was stomped on - I'm only going on what we know from the somewhat flaky media reports) and the area of the body where she was allegedly stomped on, made me wonder if it wasn't a very, very personal rage being inflicted on her.

The rage he must have felt would have been horrifying to witness and fight against Good idea about pregnancy though.

I wonder if pregnancy could be determined through DNA profiling?

As in if Karlie was pregnant? Would pregnancy hormones still exist in her bones (because I imagine there would have only been bones by the time she was discovered)? Good idea though. Although, that man does strike me as being the kind of person who would enjoy having children with many different women, as if it's 'proof' of his 'virility' and 'attractiveness'. Ugh, just thinking about him.

BBM
I assume you mean reversed over her with a car, its actually the first thought i had when we were told she had stomping injuries.
Having the life crushed out by a car...

I'm another who wondered from the outset if she was run over. I would imagine that ribs would be broken, maybe a pelvis and shoulders. Poor Karlie. Regardless of how she died. I just hope that she knew, despite her differences with her family, that she was loved and how she's touched people that she never knew.

 

[Bundy]

One thing I find rather puzzling is the 3 week gap between the time her bank account was last accessed and the estimated time of her death.

 

[Panda]

One thing I find rather puzzling is the 3 week gap between the time her bank account was last accessed and the estimated time of her death.

Do you mean the 24 November transaction at Kippax Fair? Why do you find that puzzling? What are you thinking?

 

[Maggie_May]

Jack I think it is actually a measure of exactly how horrified we are, and how our own sense of humanity is so affronted by this abomination that we tend to get so intense...I do not even have to LOOk at that precious baby's tiny chubby cheeks and blonde halo of hair to know just our heinous this is, and if we are at risk of treating anyone with less than due respect and dignity, I would be mortified, especially if family or friends were to be viewing the page. I hope they would stay away personally, but I do grapple with how we can speculate (apart from matters sub judice) without venturing into this horrible aspect of the how and the why. Meant with the greatest of respect to all, yourself included for your observation.

BBM
Yes, you are quite right CS, we really shouldnt speculate if any of it is to the detriment of the case.
Thankyou for reminding me of this, as it is easy to get caught up in the puzzle, trying to fit this with that, and lose sight of the fact this is a terribly heinous crime, affecting many innocent people and must be treated with utmost respect and dignity.

 

[ThaiBali]

We had this discussion in the previous thread:

"Police will allege Holdom went with Ms Pearce-Stevenson to the isolated location in the NSW Southern Highlands and killed her while Khandalyce stayed in the ACT." (BBM)

​http://www.smh.com.au/national/dani...h-murder-of-two-year-old-girl-20151214-glnnik

I missed that info. I doubt they said to the sitter 'we are going off to Belanglo Forest'.

 

[Panda]

I missed that info. I doubt they said to the sitter 'we are going off to Belanglo Forest'.

Yes, quite. Or if he did, I'll bet whoever was looking after Khandalyce at the time looks back on it now with a strange sense of tragic irony.

 

[symbah]

True. I wish we knew the answers to to that. I still think he didn't plan on killing Karlie at the time of leaving for Belanglo. My initial thoughts were they planned to have some alone time or a 'just for kicks let's go to the forest' jaunt. I wonder what triggered him to kill her?



Good point. Never thought of that. Karlie does strike me as being the type of strong woman, though, who would act on something on her own, to take on someone who she thought had wronged her, on impulse. I hope that she put up a fight until the end.



The rage he must have felt would have been horrifying to witness and fight against Good idea about pregnancy though.



As in if Karlie was pregnant? Would pregnancy hormones still exist in her bones (because I imagine there would have only been bones by the time she was discovered)? Good idea though. Although, that man does strike me as being the kind of person who would enjoy having children with many different women, as if it's 'proof' of his 'virility' and 'attractiveness'. Ugh, just thinking about him.



I'm another who wondered from the outset if she was run over. I would imagine that ribs would be broken, maybe a pelvis and shoulders. Poor Karlie. Regardless of how she died. I just hope that she knew, despite her differences with her family, that she was loved and how she's touched people that she never knew.

BBM

From what I've read Karlie strikes me as being a strong young woman too, impulsive maybe, but that could come with her age. It's been mentioned in MSM that Karlie was tiny. DH doesn't look like a small man from pictures I've seen in the media. I think, if Karlie was in the position to, would of fought him with all her might. I'm wondering if DH returned to Canberra from Belanglo with injuries that were as a result of Karlie fighting till the end? Thinking Baden Clay.