Mrs G Norris
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So he was steroids / peptides dealer .. is that where we're going .. or are we thinking whatever sold well?
GUILTY Australia - Lisa Harnum, 30, killed in 15-storey fall, Sydney, 30 July 2011 #2
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I've been reading for an hour. Not at the *juicy* bits yet, but in terms of the timeline of events, there is a good deal of info re: the trainer and the counselor.
(Paragraph 127 to 220)
madamehdivision
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Vitamins.......Health Products.......Wacky Tabacky.......
who are we to judge?
:angel:
marlywings
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Nope...so far all we have is that he was going to sell ready-made meals. Or as mentioned in previous reports...health products.
No mention of drugs by media folks so we'll stick to that for now.
From p. 237:
Mr Rokobaro gave evidence for the accused. Mr Rokobaro is a large man whose daunting physical presence belies a gentle soul. He has been friends with the accused since high school (T916.30). He confirmed that he had visited them that evening. He arrived at 7.20 pm (exhibit 52). He identified himself in CCTV footage taken from the pinhole camera
(T914.42; exhibit 34).
Mr Rokobaro said that what he remembered about that night was that the accused and Lisa Harnum were "a loving couple" (T913.44). He repeated that phrase five times during his evidence (T914.11; T914.15; T915.33; T915.35; T916.32).
In crossexamination, he agreed that he did not know the accused and Lisa Harnum had discussed separating on many occasions; that Lisa Harnum was planning to leave the accused at that time; that she had taken steps to hide some clothes in a storage unit or that she had given clothes to her personal trainer to keep for her (T915.40).
The Crown crossexamined Mr Rokobaro as to his awareness of the cameras in the unit. Surprisingly, it was one of the most suspenseful moments of the trial. He said that he knew there was a hidden camera in the wall but could not recall when he became aware of that fact or who told him. He knew there were cameras inside the unit and said that he thought he found that out before Ms Harnum's death. He thought it was both the accused and Lisa Harnum who told him. The crossexamination concluded with the following exchange (at T917.28)
Q. Did Lisa Harnum ever show you a note about cameras inside the apartment?
A. No, she knew about it, because she told me.
Q. Did she ever show you a note about cameras inside the apartment?
A. No, not to my recollection, no.
The reason his evidence created suspense was that, when answering questions about his knowledge of the cameras, Mr Rokobaro paused at great length. He was visibly moved during those questions. The answers that came were at odds with the measure of angst apparently felt by the witness before giving them. A frustrating sense of incompleteness remained after he left the witness box. However, I have ultimately been persuaded by Mr Strickland that I cannot safely draw any conclusions from Mr Rokobaro's demeanour in the witness box. I accept that any number of things could have unsettled him and probably nothing more than the awful experience of seeing his longtime friend facing such a serious charge.
16 hours before she died.
We now know who the note was shown to. The trainer was out of the equation, cut off by this stage. But the rest of the timeline fits as to the note still being in her pants when she died.
Mr Rokobaro gave evidence for the accused. Mr Rokobaro is a large man whose daunting physical presence belies a gentle soul. He has been friends with the accused since high school (T916.30). He confirmed that he had visited them that evening. He arrived at 7.20 pm (exhibit 52). He identified himself in CCTV footage taken from the pinhole camera
(T914.42; exhibit 34).
Mr Rokobaro said that what he remembered about that night was that the accused and Lisa Harnum were "a loving couple" (T913.44). He repeated that phrase five times during his evidence (T914.11; T914.15; T915.33; T915.35; T916.32).
In crossexamination, he agreed that he did not know the accused and Lisa Harnum had discussed separating on many occasions; that Lisa Harnum was planning to leave the accused at that time; that she had taken steps to hide some clothes in a storage unit or that she had given clothes to her personal trainer to keep for her (T915.40).
The Crown crossexamined Mr Rokobaro as to his awareness of the cameras in the unit. Surprisingly, it was one of the most suspenseful moments of the trial. He said that he knew there was a hidden camera in the wall but could not recall when he became aware of that fact or who told him. He knew there were cameras inside the unit and said that he thought he found that out before Ms Harnum's death. He thought it was both the accused and Lisa Harnum who told him. The crossexamination concluded with the following exchange (at T917.28)
Q. Did Lisa Harnum ever show you a note about cameras inside the apartment?
A. No, she knew about it, because she told me.
Q. Did she ever show you a note about cameras inside the apartment?
A. No, not to my recollection, no.
The reason his evidence created suspense was that, when answering questions about his knowledge of the cameras, Mr Rokobaro paused at great length. He was visibly moved during those questions. The answers that came were at odds with the measure of angst apparently felt by the witness before giving them. A frustrating sense of incompleteness remained after he left the witness box. However, I have ultimately been persuaded by Mr Strickland that I cannot safely draw any conclusions from Mr Rokobaro's demeanour in the witness box. I accept that any number of things could have unsettled him and probably nothing more than the awful experience of seeing his longtime friend facing such a serious charge.
16 hours before she died.
We now know who the note was shown to. The trainer was out of the equation, cut off by this stage. But the rest of the timeline fits as to the note still being in her pants when she died.
FigTree
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LOL! I didn't read under your name
Some of my work involves 'Actors and Models'
So you see where I'm coming from
Text message from Lisa to her mum less than 12 hours before she died:
I am okay mama, everything has calmed down. I told him you were coming down. Hope you still will. Let me know the dates and I will buy you a ticket. I will call You tomorrow when I can to talk to you more about it. Did you get tour (sic) results back from the doctor? I love you xoxoxoxo
They had spoken on the phone earlier. Mummy come and get me call. Then a few texts about airlines and prices.
This message to me, is Lisa KNOWING he could read it and needing to disguise what she was talking about, while giving Joan the go-ahead to book the flights.
If I was Joan, I would have taken this as : I cant talk about it anymore right now, I'm not safe. I'll call you when I can. If you need to talk, say you got bad news from the doctor, so he can see it and I am safe to call.
I am okay mama, everything has calmed down. I told him you were coming down. Hope you still will. Let me know the dates and I will buy you a ticket. I will call You tomorrow when I can to talk to you more about it. Did you get tour (sic) results back from the doctor? I love you xoxoxoxo
They had spoken on the phone earlier. Mummy come and get me call. Then a few texts about airlines and prices.
This message to me, is Lisa KNOWING he could read it and needing to disguise what she was talking about, while giving Joan the go-ahead to book the flights.
If I was Joan, I would have taken this as : I cant talk about it anymore right now, I'm not safe. I'll call you when I can. If you need to talk, say you got bad news from the doctor, so he can see it and I am safe to call.
FigTree
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Just have to say I agree with you! Exceptionally weird.
and at the end of that...
Reporters: 'Nothing to see here - lets move on everyone'
:facepalm:
.
It took me this long to quit laughing, Mrs. G. :floorlaugh:
Best news possible -- Gittany will not be available to abuse any more women for a very long time. And yes LOL -- under constant scrutiny.
The thanks has already been said for the updates and such, but I must add to it here - you guys rock, THANK YOU!!!!
I am just so happy justice was done. :dance: :loveyou: :dance:
:heart: Rest in peace, Lisa.
FigTree
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LOL - and I think he must have left RL holding the bag while he's been gone - and not the Louis Vuitton one either IYKWIM
.
^ Aussie karma, at its finest.
Image: Simon Gittany on the front page of tomorrow's @dailytelegraph
Carleen Frost Daily Telegraph night news editor
https://twitter.com/CarleenFrost/status/405667446377287680/photo/1/large
Carleen Frost Daily Telegraph night news editor
https://twitter.com/CarleenFrost/status/405667446377287680/photo/1/large
Attachments
To SleepInOz and Fuskier - Thank you for your fast posts this afternoon. I had trouble trying to keep up with you, but you didn't disappoint. Your quick updates were the next best thing to actually being in the courtroom as it all unfolded whilst the rest of us just read post after post, refreshed our pages, boiled the kettle, fed the dog,
ate cookies and chocolate bars..........stop it......I never did !
Anyway, it ended up worth it for the result - And so thank you both for your persistence in keeping us all informed. Really appreciated !
:gthanks:
ate cookies and chocolate bars..........stop it......I never did !
Anyway, it ended up worth it for the result - And so thank you both for your persistence in keeping us all informed. Really appreciated !
:gthanks:
Brightbird
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It's hard to read and keep track of everything but my impression was that Joan was going to come to Australia and Lisa was going to return to Canada with her. SG was only supposed to know about her Mum coming here but not about Lisa leaving to Canada. On the morning she died, SG claims to have said to Lisa "show me the booking", which the Judge believes is ".....probably a deliberately distorted but accidentally revealing version of true events. It suggests that the accused had ascertained by his own surveillance that there was a booking and was demanding an explanation...." paragraph 269.
The Justice Lucy McCallum's verdict in full of which there are 501 Paragraphs is well worth a read. Warning: It will take quite some time to read. It is also richly laden with snippets FULL of evidences (many and varied) which lend weight to the character of SG. Also shows Lisa's character; her thoroughly beautiful, gentle and forgiving personality, together with her willingness to expand her self, her horizons, if that meant happiness for her beloved.
So many things I see here, too numerous to mention, but one day these words might put another beautiful young vulnerable girl on guard. Make her stop and look twice and say "Hey that's me!"
Including her wearing sombre clothes even when she visited Canada.
(Oh please God, not that! I still have the ankle length brown cloak (nice material) I was in the middle of sewing nearly 40 years ago. My mother said why not use pretty happy colours if you are going to all that trouble? And I said, No Mum, it's not right, not moral, not MODEST, not right to look pretty. To show my body, show my legs. Maybe other men might notice, and I don't want to appear like a *advertiser censored*. That I am deliberately trying to portray my natural attractiveness. That's what he tells me I am doing, and I'm a big girl now. I want to be an extra special woman.Modesty Mum, that's what it's all about.)
Quietly to myself: I can cope with his abuse. No I don't call it abuse, oh no, I call it making me into a better person.
Crying a bit tonight for poor Lisa Harnum. Brought a lot of stuff up from the past. The dull grey clothes bit hit me like a ton of bricks.
I escaped. Much later I could see the forest through the trees. I am alive. And I am happy. The beautiful brown ankle length cloak remains unfinished. (To finish it would be a symbol of acceptance of the austere dead, dry and barren person he was trying to force upon me)
Lisa Harnum and Allison Baden Clay are very close to my soul. May they rest in peace, precious souls.
Again the full transcript is well worth a read. As is the interview with Tracy Grimshaw with Joan Harnum.
Many thanks to those concerned for all the live updates today, much appreciated. Especially the backups!
So many things I see here, too numerous to mention, but one day these words might put another beautiful young vulnerable girl on guard. Make her stop and look twice and say "Hey that's me!"
Including her wearing sombre clothes even when she visited Canada.
(Oh please God, not that! I still have the ankle length brown cloak (nice material) I was in the middle of sewing nearly 40 years ago. My mother said why not use pretty happy colours if you are going to all that trouble? And I said, No Mum, it's not right, not moral, not MODEST, not right to look pretty. To show my body, show my legs. Maybe other men might notice, and I don't want to appear like a *advertiser censored*. That I am deliberately trying to portray my natural attractiveness. That's what he tells me I am doing, and I'm a big girl now. I want to be an extra special woman.Modesty Mum, that's what it's all about.)
Quietly to myself: I can cope with his abuse. No I don't call it abuse, oh no, I call it making me into a better person.
Crying a bit tonight for poor Lisa Harnum. Brought a lot of stuff up from the past. The dull grey clothes bit hit me like a ton of bricks.
I escaped. Much later I could see the forest through the trees. I am alive. And I am happy. The beautiful brown ankle length cloak remains unfinished. (To finish it would be a symbol of acceptance of the austere dead, dry and barren person he was trying to force upon me)
Lisa Harnum and Allison Baden Clay are very close to my soul. May they rest in peace, precious souls.
Again the full transcript is well worth a read. As is the interview with Tracy Grimshaw with Joan Harnum.
Many thanks to those concerned for all the live updates today, much appreciated. Especially the backups!
marlywings
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And on that note if you'd all like to move on up to thread #3 please...
GUILTY Australia-Lisa Harnum, 30, Sydney - Simon Gittany on trial for murder #3 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
GUILTY Australia-Lisa Harnum, 30, Sydney - Simon Gittany on trial for murder #3 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
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