Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020 #2

[trujac]

Yes, people would have to hope they ran into Mr Buttons to then see if he would sell them an original "Mr Buttons" Netsuke!

Mr. Buttons just needs a friend with a computer so he can sell on eBay--where he'd make a killing..oops make a great living

 

[Estelle]

TootsieFootsie said:

Did Russell or was Russell going to put in any of the money for the new place, if they had indeed planned to live there together.

Having been a Relationship Counsellor, I have found that many men often leave a marriage and because of possible guilt, just give the house to their former marriage partner and move in with their lover if the woman has a home in her own name. He then pays for the expenses, etc. However, that is usually when they still have children living at home. If Carol and Russell had decided to live the rest of their lives together, money would not necessarily have come into it unless Russell had been saving up and the wife suddenly noticed a large sum removed from a bank account and became suspicious.

Otherwise, the man usually moves out, lives with another woman as a separated man and proceeds to divorce where he would probably receive half the value of the house eventually causing his wife to have to move out, go on the pension and buy somewhere else and his children with less inheritance unless they have bought the property as Tenants in Common.

Another scenario is when a couple are "separated under the one roof" and live separate lives for years as seems to be the case here. That can be whether one partner has a new partner or not and they are both in agreement to having a divorce so it can be done more quickly as both have agreed.

But even if RH's wife did not want a divorce, Russell is free to leave his wife whether she agrees or not. I just think he might have been waiting for Carol to buy her new place first and he would then have made his move knowing that he would receive half the value of his marital home in the future and property settlement can be done before divorce.

I find it hard to believe that his wife would not have known about the possibility of RH leaving her soon if she had known about Carol for years and probably knew someone who kept her up-to-date with what was going on but, for all appearances, pretended she knew nothing. Wives often check their husband's mobile phone when the husband is not looking and find out many things there too.

In summary, I cannot see any other scenario that could be possible despite Boneman, accidents and so on. I believe in looking for motives. The wife would have the strongest motive.

 

[Estelle]

Another thing which is intriguing me when I did a Google search is this Headline which was posted only 16 hours ago is this:
New evidence including drone found in Victorians Carol Clay ...
9now.nine.com.au › a-current-affair › new-evidence-in...
16 hours ago

You click on the article at Vital new evidence discovered after pair mysteriously disappear from campsite

and find an article which was posted 5 months ago but possibly these sentences were added to it yesterday:

"A missing drone could hold the key to unraveling the mysterious disappearance of an elderly pair in Victoria's high country."

"The drone is believed to have belonged to Mr Hill."

So has the drone really been found but police do not wish to give the details?

Where was it found?

What information can be obtained from it?

Is this why overseas assistance has been requested?

 

[srper2]

RH made his radio call at Wonnangatta Station around 6.30pm on 20/3, they then drove another 13k's or so to their camp area and set up at dry river, but not in the main camping area. Plenty of time with daylight saving. He was reported to have said he was having trouble with the radio so seems he probably couldn't have radioed for help or to report something concerning. I feel the fire could have been caused by an exploding/burning drone battery after being left too long charging on the car battery or connected incorrectly. If the fire occurred when they were still around, they would have just used the car to leave, so it appears to have happened after they disappeared. RH was reported to never go far from his camp and probably purchased the drone so he could explore without having to try to walk far, given he was unwell. I think if he lost the drone, he would probably use the car to drive closer to where they saw it disappear, not just start walking off to find it. He appears to have chosen to camp on the edge of an open area where he could drive around to find the drone. A closer examination should find small screws, wires etc, pieces of melted plastic and metal parts from the drone and/or the battery in the screened refuse from the tent area if they were there. it should not be too difficult to determine if a drone battery exploded there.

 

[trujac]

RH made his radio call at Wonnangatta Station around 6.30pm on 20/3, they then drove another 13k's or so to their camp area and set up at dry river, but not in the main camping area. Plenty of time with daylight saving. He was reported to have said he was having trouble with the radio so seems he probably couldn't have radioed for help or to report something concerning. I feel the fire could have been caused by an exploding/burning drone battery after being left too long charging on the car battery or connected incorrectly. If the fire occurred when they were still around, they would have just used the car to leave, so it appears to have happened after they disappeared. RH was reported to never go far from his camp and probably purchased the drone so he could explore without having to try to walk far, given he was unwell. I think if he lost the drone, he would probably use the car to drive closer to where they saw it disappear, not just start walking off to find it. He appears to have chosen to camp on the edge of an open area where he could drive around to find the drone. A closer examination should find small screws, wires etc, pieces of melted plastic and metal parts from the drone and/or the battery in the screened refuse from the tent area if they were there. it should not be too difficult to determine if a drone battery exploded there.

yes, and to add to your thoughts--info from LE's point of view...re: the drone--investigators said they couldn't find anything, as to what happened to the drone...other than it was missing. Re: the fire--LE first stated they thought a cell charger might have ignited and started the campsite fire; however, after spending time analyzing the fire rumble--LE concluded there was not any evidence of a burnt phone charger--or anything else for that matter that could explain how the fire started. LE also said they were not able to find any evidence of an accelerant being used to start the fire either--which led a lot of people here to think that the fire was the result of some other type of spontaneous combustion rather than an electronic device malfunctioning. I initially thought that perhaps a butane torch was used to start the fire--but think at this point, when looking at the scorch marks on RH's truck--the fire might have started on its own and continued to burned everything up to where a tarp awning was attached to the roof racks of RH's truck. The fire according to LE was intensely hot--perhaps some type of gas was involved during the burning of the fire that would help explain the extreme heat. The odd aspect of this case to me is the complete lack of forensic evidence. From what LE has stated, it seems rare when investigators can find absolutely no reason whatsoever of why or how a fire started. And, after searching around RH and CC's camp area and searching RH's truck--interviewing multiple people, etc... investigators weren't able to explain how or why RH and CC disappeared either--which seems to suggest to me that RH and C are missing due to misadventure not murder...and the campsite fire was a result of some type of accident that happened because RH and CC weren't there to prevent it.
P.S. If my hypothesis turns out not to be correct--I'll eat my green Tilly hat.

 

[trujac]

TootsieFootsie said:

Did Russell or was Russell going to put in any of the money for the new place, if they had indeed planned to live there together.

Having been a Relationship Counsellor, I have found that many men often leave a marriage and because of possible guilt, just give the house to their former marriage partner and move in with their lover if the woman has a home in her own name. He then pays for the expenses, etc. However, that is usually when they still have children living at home. If Carol and Russell had decided to live the rest of their lives together, money would not necessarily have come into it unless Russell had been saving up and the wife suddenly noticed a large sum removed from a bank account and became suspicious.

Otherwise, the man usually moves out, lives with another woman as a separated man and proceeds to divorce where he would probably receive half the value of the house eventually causing his wife to have to move out, go on the pension and buy somewhere else and his children with less inheritance unless they have bought the property as Tenants in Common.

Another scenario is when a couple are "separated under the one roof" and live separate lives for years as seems to be the case here. That can be whether one partner has a new partner or not and they are both in agreement to having a divorce so it can be done more quickly as both have agreed.

But even if RH's wife did not want a divorce, Russell is free to leave his wife whether she agrees or not. I just think he might have been waiting for Carol to buy her new place first and he would then have made his move knowing that he would receive half the value of his marital home in the future and property settlement can be done before divorce.

I find it hard to believe that his wife would not have known about the possibility of RH leaving her soon if she had known about Carol for years and probably knew someone who kept her up-to-date with what was going on but, for all appearances, pretended she knew nothing. Wives often check their husband's mobile phone when the husband is not looking and find out many things there too.

In summary, I cannot see any other scenario that could be possible despite Boneman, accidents and so on. I believe in looking for motives. The wife would have the strongest motive.

With all due respect, by the time you're in your middle 70s the expediencies life usually don't dictate it's time to divorce your wife and/or move out of your home to share a nest with a lover you've maintained a decades long relationship with comfortably, while being married to your long term spouse.

 

[SouthAussie]

With all due respect, by the time you're in your middle 70s the expediencies life usually don't dictate it's time to divorce your wife and/or move out of your home to share a nest with a lover you've maintained a decades long relationship with comfortably, while being married to your long term spouse.

I think it is very possible that Russell made a promise to Carol, that he would permanently be with her soon. His good mate knew about Russell's plan to be with Carol. Carol disolved her marriage to be with Russell.

Would Carol have remained with Russell if Russell just suddenly said "No, I can't do it. Despite all you have done to clear the way"?

I think it more likely that there was a temporary setback in their plans. As Tootsie said, maybe the wife became ill and he didn't want to walk out until she was better. Maybe a new baby was being born into the family, and he didn't want to change things during this event. Maybe someone in the family was having a difficulty, and he didnt want to rock the boat until the difficulty was resolved.

I personally know a lady who broke up her marriage (fairly recently) at 70 years old and went to live with another man. We were all shocked, had no inkling. But she said, I deserve to be with the person who makes me happy before I die. She does not lack compassion, and is doing all she can to make things easier for her husband of 40+ years.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Re Carol buying a new house.
They both may have decided they should set things up for the future so they could be together in the event of either one suffering ill health and needing hospital treatment.
It would have been an impossible situation for Carol, if Russell was admitted to hospital and she wasn't able to be with him.
I think the house was the first step, Russell moving in would have been the second, after Russell telling his wife.
I think he still wouldn't have wanted to hurt his wife so most likely would have not have mentioned his relationship to Carol to his wife.
Unless she already knew ?

 

[SouthAussie]

Re Carol buying a new house.
They both may have decided they should set things up for the future so they could be together in the event of either one suffering ill health and needing hospital treatment.
It would have been an impossible situation for Carol, if Russell was admitted to hospital and she wasn't able to be with him.
I think the house was the first step, Russell moving in would have been the second, after Russell telling his wife.
I think he still wouldn't have wanted to hurt his wife so most likely would have not have mentioned his relationship to Carol to his wife.
Unless she already knew ?

I just re-read an article that says that they both have "large families".

I think it is very possible that someone(s) knew.

Russell Hill's best mate believes his friend was ATTACKED after speaking to him before he vanished | Daily Mail Online

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Oh I did read about the friend being the last known person who talked to Russell but didn't think it had to do with what happened.
Does the friend think the call had something to do with them disappearing ?

I wonder if the presence of Carol was heard over the radio. Maybe she had been outside and came in, not knowing he was on a call, and said something.

I think it is very possible that someone(s) knew.

 

[Panda]

When DI Stamper gave the presser (video) that I just listened to, he said that Russell's vehicle had a special made tray canopy that was fully kitted out for camping. They had both of the sides of the canopy up, very neat and tidy (meticulous, as has been said about Russell).

I would be surprised if he didn't have some kind of emergency equipment also.

I wonder if something(s) is missing from the camping equipment that was 'always' in the back of the vehicle. And police now know that, after speaking with Russell's ham radio camping friends.

If Russell was that fastidious and had serious enough health issues, I would have thought he'd carry a Sat phone for emergencies. Especially if he camps in areas where phone reception is dodgy. You can't always rely on CB or other radios either. A Sat phone on the other hand, can be used in any location to summon help.

 

[Panda]

Over dinner tonight I told my partner the condensed version.
Affair wife didn’t know of.
Couple in their 70’s - gone.
Tent burnt yadda yadda.

Partner said immediately ‘the wife’.
I like to know if Russell had any male children as the boys like to protect the mum.
I thought it was interesting.

The wife had an extra beef, one a girlfriend, the other the husband.

That is one of my main theories and why the tent that they used to sleep in together was burnt down. Hoping I'm wrong though.

 

[SouthAussie]

That is one of my main theories and why the tent that they used to sleep in together was burnt down. Hoping I'm wrong though.

A symbolic burn. Could be.

 

[SouthAussie]

Oh I did read about the friend being the last known person who talked to Russell but didn't think it had to do with what happened.
Does the friend think the call had something to do with them disappearing ?

I wonder if the presence of Carol was heard over the radio. Maybe she had been outside and came in, not knowing he was on a call, and said something.

I was more thinking that with a large family, it could be very possible that Russell was seen with Carol somewhere by a family member. Or by a friend of a family member, who inadvertently mentioned it. Possibly seen in a coffee shop, in a pub, wherever they may have gone together. Russell may or may not have known he was seen. But it could be that he knew (if such a thing happened) due to his good friend saying this ....

'He's been attacked, I believe there is more than one person involved,' Mr Ashlin explained.
Russell Hill's best mate believes his friend was ATTACKED after speaking to him before he vanished | Daily Mail Online

 

[Kemug]

It would have been an impossible situation for Carol, if Russell was admitted to hospital and she wasn't able to be with him.

But it would be a worse situation for Russell's wife - imagine going to visit your husband in hospital, and you're not allowed to because his girlfriend is there. In this sort of situation, the sooner a definite break is made the better.

 

[Kemug]

I think it more likely that there was a temporary setback in their plans. As Tootsie said, maybe the wife became ill and he didn't want to walk out until she was better. Maybe a new baby was being born into the family, and he didn't want to change things during this event. Maybe someone in the family was having a difficulty, and he didnt want to rock the boat until the difficulty was resolved.

Not quite on topic, but I once knew a couple who had a big party to celebrate their 25th wedding anniversary - and the next day he walked out. His reasoning was that he hadn't wanted to spoil the party for her.

 

[they'll get you]

Yes but when this happened, weren't all her friends surprised that she would go camping.
I think they didn't know she was camping, hence their surprise. I wonder what she told them she was doing.

Yes! Why did Carol have to keep that secret from her close friends?

 

[they'll get you]

Another thought: Was Carol actually divorced or just separated? Had she gone through property settlement - hence her new purchase of real estate?

Motive? Protection of family assets, disapproval of infidelity and the secret relationship and jealousy.

RBBM
Was Romeo so besotted with this ‘beauty queen’ that he pulled money from an account to help his Juliette with a property purchase.
That would send any inheritance beneficiaries into a frenzy.

"that silly bugger."

 

[they'll get you]

She's unlikely to say "Oh yes, I thought something was going on. He has hardly been around since he's been retired, when he should have had so much more time with me. Always off camping and doing other things. So I followed him and found out where he was going .... to Carol's place. I took his drone and hid it. We had a huge blowup. I was really upset. My kids know that I am upset. Anyway, he's dead now, so I am packing up his stuff."

IMO

I think you’ve nailed it SA.

 

[they'll get you]

We don't know. Only that he suddenly decided he couldn't leave ... "at the last minute" (or something along those lines). He must have been serious about it, if Carol went ahead and divorced her husband to be with Russell. That divorce didn't happen overnight. And Russell obviously told at least one of his friends about it.

I wonder what happened that made Russell hold off on leaving his wife, something that Carol was understanding about. Kept seeing him, and going away with him.
He may have tried to tell his wife, and all heck broke loose, so he backed down and decided to wait for a while. We just don't know.

IMO

RBBM- Let’s turn that around to read

Carol’s husband divorced her because of Russell.

Well well now what about Carol’s husband?