Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020

[littlekitten]

I've been thinking about this case for a while but haven't contributed anything to this thread yet.

We've been going up to Dargo, Omeo, and Mount Beauty etc. since I was a kid, especially in summer and around Easter. There's some oddballs up there but nobody too weird, just off-grid types you wouldn't stay and chat to. That said, I've heard via a 4WDing group that quite a few thefts have taken place over recent months, from both campsites and rollovers/accident sites where people left to get help. Kind of freaks me out!

We've come across illegal hunters every now and then. They do vary, most will politely say hello and tell you what they're after, others have stared us down and not said a word until we've left the vicinity (still gives me chills). Usually using bows and not guns. This isn't in the middle of nowhere either - sometimes even within 5-10 minutes of a campsite. I wouldn't be surprised if Russell and Carol stumbled across some particularly unfriendly ones and an unpleasant situation unfolded, particularly if the drone was in use and recording.

I'm also wondering if, when previously using the drone, Russell spotted something and wanted to bring Carol with him the next time as a way to protect himself, i.e. he'd be in danger alone, but perhaps if he were with a lovely and effervescent elderly woman, any potential violent or agitated response could be softened?

This and the Warren Meyer case have really had an impact on how I feel about hiking and the high country, it's beautiful up there but there's probably a lot we don't know about.

 

[SouthAussie]

I wonder if either of the families have been out there searching for their loved ones. Or if they have been asked by police not to do that (for possible contamination or danger reasons).


21 April 2020:
Despite the new leads of inquiry, Mr Hill's shattered wife of 50 years has lost hope that he will return home and has started packing up his belongings.
'I don't think that he will still be alive,' Robyn Hill told Daily Mail Australia from the couple's Drouin home on Monday.
Chilling twist in case of married man who vanished with 'glamour queen' friend on a camping trip | Daily Mail Online

 

[Tinker Taylor]

We've been going up to Dargo, Omeo, and Mount Beauty etc. since I was a kid, especially in summer and around Easter. There's some oddballs up there but nobody too weird, just off-grid types you wouldn't stay and chat to. That said, I've heard via a 4WDing group that quite a few thefts have taken place over recent months, from both campsites and rollovers/accident sites where people left to get help. Kind of freaks me out!

We've come across illegal hunters every now and then. They do vary, most will politely say hello and tell you what they're after, others have stared us down and not said a word until we've left the vicinity (still gives me chills). Usually using bows and not guns. This isn't in the middle of nowhere either - sometimes even within 5-10 minutes of a campsite. I wouldn't be surprised if Russell and Carol stumbled across some particularly unfriendly ones and an unpleasant situation unfolded, particularly if the drone was in use and recording.

I kind of dismissed the murder theories initially. I've looked at it every which way and can't think what could have happened.

Then I started looking on some websites with reviews and there were a couple of comments on there about this particular campsites. Without quoting them, one mentioned annoying hunters shining spotlights around at night and finding several dead deer in the creek the next day. They mentioned that due to the proximity of the hunters to the campsite, the rangers should be visiting the area more often. Another mentioned spotlights hitting their tent at 2am and the noise of the rifles also mentioned hunting season for the deer was October - December. Someone else said they weren't hunters, just "dicks with high powered rifles". There was more but it's a bit specific. As the time they were there was outside of legal hunting season it might mean the dicks with high powered rifles were still about. Hopefully, Russell would have had more sense than to confront them or tell them to move on.

 

[Black-Cat]

Just read this transcript where Andrew Rule the crime writer talks about Button Man and how four people have gone missing in 9 months as 'SouthAussie' had discussed. Andrew Rule clearly thinks there's a link between the cases, he writes for the Age and has written books. Crime Writer Andrew Rule Gives Some Details On The Mystery “Button Man” In The Victorian High Country

 

[SouthAussie]

Just read this transcript where Andrew Rule the crime writer talks about Button Man and how four people have gone missing in 9 months as 'SouthAussie' had discussed. Andrew Rule clearly thinks there's a link between the cases, he writes for the Age and has written books. Crime Writer Andrew Rule Gives Some Details On The Mystery “Button Man” In The Victorian High Country

I wonder how Button Man survives. Does he get a dole payment somewhere, and goes in his vehicle to buy groceries and such? How does he keep warm in winter? Are there remnants of Carol and Russell's sleeping bags/bedding traceable in the fire debris?

Does Button Man see some of the goings-on in that area, but doesn't speak of them? Because he doesn't want harm to come to himself.

 

[Black-Cat]

I wonder how Button Man survives. Does he get a dole payment somewhere, and goes in his vehicle to buy groceries and such? How does he keep warm in winter? Are there remnants of Carol and Russell's sleeping bags/bedding traceable in the fire debris?

Does Button Man see some of the goings-on in that area, but doesn't speak of them? Because he doesn't want harm to come to himself.

I think it said somewhere that he lived in the Mansfield area but goes up into the high country for long periods of time .... correct me if I'm wrong, I was thinking that Police interviewed him at his home in Mansfield???

 

[SouthAussie]

I think it said somewhere that he lived in the Mansfield area but goes up into the high country for long periods of time .... correct me if I'm wrong, I was thinking that Police interviewed him at his home in Mansfield???

I think he shops in Mansfield, and the locals there seem to be somewhat protective of him.



THE ‘Button Man’ of Mansfield has been tried, found guilty and hung out to dry by metro media outlets across the country.
Even the Daily Mail, in the United Kingdom, has run stories on the ‘eccentric bushman’ who stalks campers.

None of them claim he is guilty of murdering people gone missing in the hills beyond town, but lines are most certainly being drawn.
Button Man trial by media » Mansfield Courier

 

[Black-Cat]

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...ounting-mountain-mystery-20200521-p54v4p.html

This article seems to suggest the cases are related, it also talks about the police hiking in to talk to Button Man .... so I may have assumed he lived in Mansfield not an actual fact.

 

[SouthAussie]

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...ounting-mountain-mystery-20200521-p54v4p.html

This article seems to suggest the cases are related, it also talks about the police hiking in to talk to Button Man .... so I may have assumed he lived in Mansfield not an actual fact.

From your link.

"He has made a camp on the side of a remote mountain that lets him see anyone approaching ...."
"He will grill them on why they are there but rarely responds to questions about himself."
"Bushies who have stooked firewood supplies in hidden crevices have found their stash gone. They say someone must have been watching to know the location."

So maybe he does take things from other people. Things that he needs to survive out there.

 

[Detectivediva]

This case really baffles me. I honestly do not know what to think but I'd fall over if it turns out to be suicide pact. I really don't think so. I also do not believe the button man is involved. If it was just one of them I'd certainly be leaning accident but with both...I think it's either murder-suicide or foul play (leaning more towards murder-suicide). I do not think the fire is a red herring.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

I wonder if either of the families have been out there searching for their loved ones. Or if they have been asked by police not to do that (for possible contamination or danger reasons).


21 April 2020:
Despite the new leads of inquiry, Mr Hill's shattered wife of 50 years has lost hope that he will return home and has started packing up his belongings.
'I don't think that he will still be alive,' Robyn Hill told Daily Mail Australia from the couple's Drouin home on Monday.
Chilling twist in case of married man who vanished with 'glamour queen' friend on a camping trip | Daily Mail Online

Saying he’s not going to be alive after almost a month in the bush, I can see that as a realistic view point. BUT???
Not a month later and she’s packing up his stuff? I know people that can’t pack up loved ones personal items for a long time. Months, even years....
What woman doesn't know about an affair like this going on? I presumed she knew and didn’t care. He traveled a lot during their marriage.
ETA: Just to be clear, I’m not thinking she had anything to do with the disappearance.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

I've been thinking about this case for a while but haven't contributed anything to this thread yet.

We've been going up to Dargo, Omeo, and Mount Beauty etc. since I was a kid, especially in summer and around Easter. There's some oddballs up there but nobody too weird, just off-grid types you wouldn't stay and chat to. That said, I've heard via a 4WDing group that quite a few thefts have taken place over recent months, from both campsites and rollovers/accident sites where people left to get help. Kind of freaks me out!

We've come across illegal hunters every now and then. They do vary, most will politely say hello and tell you what they're after, others have stared us down and not said a word until we've left the vicinity (still gives me chills). Usually using bows and not guns. This isn't in the middle of nowhere either - sometimes even within 5-10 minutes of a campsite. I wouldn't be surprised if Russell and Carol stumbled across some particularly unfriendly ones and an unpleasant situation unfolded, particularly if the drone was in use and recording.

I'm also wondering if, when previously using the drone, Russell spotted something and wanted to bring Carol with him the next time as a way to protect himself, i.e. he'd be in danger alone, but perhaps if he were with a lovely and effervescent elderly woman, any potential violent or agitated response could be softened?

This and the Warren Meyer case have really had an impact on how I feel about hiking and the high country, it's beautiful up there but there's probably a lot we don't know about.

This is the best view into the reality of the Valley we’ve seen so far. Thank you.
Button man might be stealing firewood from hidden spots, but what did he steal from the burned campground? Food was there. He doesn’t need two cell phones. One is plenty. He leaves no trace of himself while hiking around. So no need to burn anything down and call attention to the scene.
Unfortunately, I believe the young hiker tried to take a shortcut through the bush and got lost. The photographer that saw himself as he slept in his developed photos lived to tell the story. If it’s Buttonman, I doubt it. But he’d surely know about all the high powered rifle jerks that weren’t hunting. And now we’re hearing that his last radio contact was not every night but he missed one night, the first night after picking up Carol, then rebroadcast the following night. I presumed they were in some spot the first night by themselves. Got up in the am, traveled further into the valley, set up camp late in afternoon and broadcast. There was a huge time they were off grid the first day. Way too long for driving straight to their destination.
In other words, we are being given information that is conflicting. Early on the site was seen by others 2-3 days after arrival, but not reported as an abandoned site by the travelers bc they didn’t have the means to notify anyone and thought it not important. Second sighting was as the burned out campground almost a week after arrival. But then reported differently, that camp was reported burned within 2-3 days. I’m not sure if it’s deliberate that the sequence is being muddied, or media. I tend to think deliberate muddying to allow LE to check closely. It has not helped any in solving this case.
What we know is that they are missing. They made one broadcast. The place is burned. Everything left there. No cell phones, no drone. No bodies. In about a week’s time.
ETA: Maybe LE went with the lost campers in the bush story to keep the tourist industry from reports of criminal activity. Crime is not good for tourism. Surely, LE considered all potential situations, other than being lost. But after searching and no bodies, LE was forced to open up other possibilities to the public, including crime.

 

[Panda]

I've been thinking about this case for a while but haven't contributed anything to this thread yet.

We've been going up to Dargo, Omeo, and Mount Beauty etc. since I was a kid, especially in summer and around Easter. There's some oddballs up there but nobody too weird, just off-grid types you wouldn't stay and chat to. That said, I've heard via a 4WDing group that quite a few thefts have taken place over recent months, from both campsites and rollovers/accident sites where people left to get help. Kind of freaks me out!

We've come across illegal hunters every now and then. They do vary, most will politely say hello and tell you what they're after, others have stared us down and not said a word until we've left the vicinity (still gives me chills). Usually using bows and not guns. This isn't in the middle of nowhere either - sometimes even within 5-10 minutes of a campsite. I wouldn't be surprised if Russell and Carol stumbled across some particularly unfriendly ones and an unpleasant situation unfolded, particularly if the drone was in use and recording.

I'm also wondering if, when previously using the drone, Russell spotted something and wanted to bring Carol with him the next time as a way to protect himself, i.e. he'd be in danger alone, but perhaps if he were with a lovely and effervescent elderly woman, any potential violent or agitated response could be softened?

This and the Warren Meyer case have really had an impact on how I feel about hiking and the high country, it's beautiful up there but there's probably a lot we don't know about.

Thanks for your local knowledge. What sort of things were stolen?

 

[littlekitten]

Thanks for your local knowledge. What sort of things were stolen?

GPS, tools, stuff that's not tied down or locked up. Makes me wonder, if the campsite fire was deliberate, it takes a certain kind of person (and motive, or lack thereof) to damage stuff and just move on. In my mind a more rudimentary criminal type would at least take advantage of the isolation to break a window and rummage around for cash or something, if nobody's there to stop them?

I just honestly think there are some bad eggs out there. There are some semi-rural 4WD/dirtbike tracks out on my side of town (outer western suburbs of Melbourne) and growing up there I saw a fair bit of associated petty crime, usually people dumping animals and rubbish (once found a decapitated dog in a pile of kids toys and clothes, awful) but also lots of people cutting gates and fences for access, false plates, etc.

Wish I was truly local to that area but unfortunately I'm just a city girl with parents that adore the high country!

 

[Panda]

Wow. That's absolutely shocking. I can honestly say, in my 40 odd years camping and 4WD'ing, I've never come across theft or unsavoury behaviour. My husband and I used to go 4WD'ing and camping every weekend when we were younger. The only annoying thing we ever came across was dirt bike riders. The noise more than anything.

Someone in an earlier post mentioned that it's impossible to break a car window nowadays. Toughened, tempered glass, not like the old cars. You can buy a special tool to keep for emergencies, which I made a point of trying to get, or apparently ceramic (from spark plugs) will break it. Go figure.

 

[TrawlwoolwayTracker]

If that drone recorded illegal activity, then that may explain why we have no drone and no bodies.
If that’s the case, we may never find the truth.

However, I believe that most people kill over love and/or money.

Who has camped there before?
Are drones commonly used there?
Haven’t thousands of people camped there over the years?

 

[Tinker Taylor]

I wonder if either of the families have been out there searching for their loved ones. Or if they have been asked by police not to do that (for possible contamination or danger reasons).


21 April 2020:
Despite the new leads of inquiry, Mr Hill's shattered wife of 50 years has lost hope that he will return home and has started packing up his belongings.
'I don't think that he will still be alive,' Robyn Hill told Daily Mail Australia from the couple's Drouin home on Monday.
Chilling twist in case of married man who vanished with 'glamour queen' friend on a camping trip | Daily Mail Online

I've also seen several times the quote from Mrs Hill that her husband was "a silly bugger". I think that's very telling.

 

[SouthAussie]

I've also seen several times the quote from Mrs Hill that her husband was "a silly bugger". I think that's very telling.

I think it is likely that she knew that he was more than friendly with Carol.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Maybe, and she couldn't very well say that to all the newspapers eager for any little bit of gossip. They would have had a field day.
I nearly typed "fiend" day. which sort of fits.

I think it is likely that she knew that he was more than friendly with Carol

 

[Black-Cat]

Yes and who was he up in the bush with the week before .... Carol may not have been his only girlfriend IMO