Australia - Warriena Wright, 26, dies in balcony fall, Surfers Paradise, Aug 2014 #10

[SouthAussie]

What time is it n Australia may I ask ?

8am in Qld. They are meant to resume at 9:30am today.

 

[Really?]

It's interesting to compare his behaviour in the DUI car chase to his behaviour in this one.

I mean, there were -other people- in that car! He could've killed them.. could've killed police officers... could've killed other drivers... Gave not 1 sh_t about any of 'em, just took off and hang the consequences. Probably thought it was a real good time, lol brahs.


Coulda just pulled over for the cops.


Coulda let her leave the two tmes she said she was going... coulda put her out the front door/called police/whatever.

Coulda.. shoulda... Fact is, he just lives for the thrills and lulz of it all, in the moment. What he feels later, I don't know.. and don't particularly care.

I know exactly what you mean, mane.

 

[Ausgirl]

Bo & others - just wanted to say thanks for all the links to articles, etc. Lots of really informative stuff there, valuable reading.

 

[DexterMorgan]

It's interesting to compare his behaviour in the DUI car chase to his behaviour in this one.

I mean, there were -other people- in that car! He could've killed them.. could've killed police officers... could've killed other drivers... Gave not 1 sh_t about any of 'em, just took off and hang the consequences. Probably thought it was a real good time, lol brahs.


Coulda just pulled over for the cops.


Coulda let her leave the two tmes she said she was going... coulda put her out the front door/called police/whatever.

Coulda.. shoulda... Fact is, he just lives for the thrills and lulz of it all, in the moment. What he feels later, I don't know.. and don't particularly care.

Agree. Tostee always have options. But he rather put others in danger during his downward spirals.
Now I'm sure the others were afraid as well.

But it seems like some posters want to give Tostee a break for his diehard behavior.
Jmo

 

[CleverKnot]

Can it be manslaughter?

That is likely where it is hung up. I can almost guarantee you, the exact same points being made here, are the same points being made there.

It's also likely that the sides are drawn primarily down gender lines.

Manslaughter, hinges on cause, rather than intent. Did he cause her death?

The men will likely take a factual, chronological approach where he de-escalated and separated, and after that, there is some onus on her to act reasonably, and he couldn't possibly have predicted that she would go over the rail.

The women, will likely take a more emotional approach, whereby of course she was in fear, and his words and threats literally forced her over the rail.

Thus, the question regarding words being force. Both sides are likely entrenched, and it boiled down to both sides looking for that legal technicality to force the issue.

Given that the judge essentially said no, words are not force, it will undoubtedly embolden the side that believes if he didn't push her physically, he didn't push her.

The only outcome, if I analyzed it correctly, can only be not guilty, or hung jury. It is a very slim chance the side that was validated by the judge, and therefore the law, will ignore that direct support. They will wield it as gospel from that point on.

 

[TheOtherChristina]

That is likely where it is hung up. I can almost guarantee you, the exact same points being made here, are the same points being made there.

It's also likely that the sides are drawn primarily down gender lines.

Manslaughter, hinges on cause, rather than intent. Did he cause her death?

The men will likely take a factual, chronological approach where he de-escalated and separated, and after that, there is some onus on her to act reasonably, and he couldn't possibly have predicted that she would go over the rail.

The women, will likely take a more emotional approach, whereby of course she was in fear, and his words and threats literally forced her over the rail.

Thus, the question regarding words being force. Both sides are likely entrenched, and it boiled down to both sides looking for that legal technicality to force the issue.

Given that the judge essentially said no, words are not force, it will undoubtedly embolden the side that believes if he didn't push her physically, he didn't push her.

The only outcome, if I analyzed it correctly, can only be not guilty, or hung jury. It is a very slim chance the side that was validated by the judge, and therefore the law, will ignore that direct support. They will wield it as gospel from that point on.

Ah, yes. The male jurors will likely hunt the majestic logic beast, while the female jurors will use berries to make ink so they can journal about their synchronized periods.

 

[CleverKnot]

So if you were in your car, you wouldn't push the attacker out of the car given the chance, and lock yourself in?

It's just as likely as he was locking her out, he felt he was locking himself in, where it was safe.

 

[Rahamare]

I'm interested to hear people's opinion on the similarities of this case to the Simon Gittany case. I know that the eye witness evidence was what really put him away but the lead up of events (the hand over mouth CCTV) were also considered. Is it simply that we could see rather than hear what went on that helped reach a guilty verdict? Do you think the female judge played any part? If the eyewitness in the Gittany case didn't exist and we were to speculate that she had felt no other choice but to run and jump, would he be walking free? I keep wondering if this trial would be different if it were held in NSW....

 

[SouthAussie]

That is likely where it is hung up. I can almost guarantee you, the exact same points being made here, are the same points being made there.

It's also likely that the sides are drawn primarily down gender lines.

Manslaughter, hinges on cause, rather than intent. Did he cause her death?

The men will likely take a factual, chronological approach where he de-escalated and separated, and after that, there is some onus on her to act reasonably, and he couldn't possibly have predicted that she would go over the rail.

The women, will likely take a more emotional approach, whereby of course she was in fear, and his words and threats literally forced her over the rail.

Thus, the question regarding words being force. Both sides are likely entrenched, and it boiled down to both sides looking for that legal technicality to force the issue.

Given that the judge essentially said no, words are not force, it will undoubtedly embolden the side that believes if he didn't push her physically, he didn't push her.

The only outcome, if I analyzed it correctly, can only be not guilty, or hung jury. It is a very slim chance the side that was validated by the judge, and therefore the law, will ignore that direct support. They will wield it as gospel from that point on.

I mostly agree with this - other than the contentious de-escalation presumption , of course. I think that was anger and unreasonable brute force.

But I think that it is important to understand how terrifying it is to a woman to be choked and threatened. Or to try to understand that.

 

[NatalieJones]

So Tostee has a brother who studied a 100k degree at Bond Uni. Carpet laying must be more profitable than I thought.

 

[CleverKnot]

I, too, have attended a defence course - at a rape crisis centre. We were taught a few unique defence moves, and told to run and scream like crazy.

Seems to me that Warriena tried to scream like crazy and escape when she was choked and threatened.

Yet, she didn't scream and yell when she was unhindered from doing so on the balcony after the door closed.

If screaming is undeniable proof of feeling threatened, does not screaming then mean she wasn't feeling threatened?

It's no smoking gun unfortunately.

 

[Bohemian]

It's interesting to compare his behaviour in the DUI car chase to his behaviour in this one.

I mean, there were -other people- in that car! He could've killed them.. could've killed police officers... could've killed other drivers... Gave not 1 sh_t about any of 'em, just took off and hang the consequences. Probably thought it was a real good time, lol brahs.


Coulda just pulled over for the cops.


Coulda let her leave the two tmes she said she was going... coulda put her out the front door/called police/whatever.

Coulda...shoulda... Fact is, he just lives for the thrills and lulz of it all, in the moment. What he feels later, I don't know.. and don't particularly care.

You forgot woulda... as evidenced by his unrealistic expectation and patently fallacious explanation of his actions on the night Warriena fell 14-storeys to her death, ie; consequent to his verbal threats and physical assault it wasn't reasonable for her to attempt extraordinary measures to escape. 'If only I knew [insert tragic consequences for others here], I woulda [insert 'True story, brah!' here]'.

Let's pray that this jury is able to sink his Lulz Boat and stop his solo voyage of destruction before anyone else's life is endangered or extinguished.

 

[SouthAussie]

So Tostee has a brother who studied a 100k degree at Bond Uni. Carpet laying must be more profitable than I thought.

Tostee's father was into property development at one point. Maybe still is, for all I know, while also running his carpet business.
His mother works also ... elsewhere.

 

[CleverKnot]

Predator-prey behaviour is also evident in human relationships. I'm currently reading an excellent paper on 'The Human Nature of Violence' by Robin Fox, which was presented at an international conference on Drinking and Public Disorder to a non-academic audience.

Although the complete paper promises to be enlightening at first glance, I think Part 5. will be of particular interest to the 'cat and mouse game'.

Source: The Human Nature of Violence

It is also prevalent in the power exchange that is BDSM, of which there are hints of in this as well. The effect of some role play, and appeal to those triggers cannot be discounted when you read and hear the words on the recording.

 

[Rahamare]

Mind you I suppose there was no self defence element in the Gittany case. Heck I wish he'd chosen to video rather than record!

 

[SouthAussie]

Yet, she didn't scream and yell when she was unhindered from doing so on the balcony after the door closed.

If screaming is undeniable proof of feeling threatened, does not screaming then mean she wasn't feeling threatened?

It's no smoking gun unfortunately.

She was screaming up until the point where she went over the balcony. It all happened very quickly. Warriena was terrified. Remember, 50 seconds after was when Tostee called his lawyer.

 

[CleverKnot]

It's interesting to compare his behaviour in the DUI car chase to his behaviour in this one.

I mean, there were -other people- in that car! He could've killed them.. could've killed police officers... could've killed other drivers... Gave not 1 sh_t about any of 'em, just took off and hang the consequences. Probably thought it was a real good time, lol brahs.


Coulda just pulled over for the cops.


Coulda let her leave the two tmes she said she was going... coulda put her out the front door/called police/whatever.

Coulda.. shoulda... Fact is, he just lives for the thrills and lulz of it all, in the moment. What he feels later, I don't know.. and don't particularly care.

Much like a woman's previous sexual history doesn't mean she consented to rape 6 months later, a DUI incident doesn't mean he threw her off the balcony.

You can perhaps draw some conclusions about risky behaviour choices, but not much more.

 

[SouthAussie]

Mind you I suppose there was no self defence element in the Gittany case. Heck I wish he'd chosen to video rather than record!

I wish there was an eye witness, as in the Gittany case.
Too bad there wasn't another pervy telescope user watching his antics from some other balcony.

 

[Amee]

JURORS in the Gable Tostee murder trial have been told only to focus on what the *accused killer did, not what he said.

http://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au...s/news-story/cbce58160ea72cabc0bebcd2fd23b090

 

[Bohemian]

Bo & others - just wanted to say thanks for all the links to articles, etc. Lots of really informative stuff there, valuable reading.

Thanks AG. If we take the time to read them, I believe we'll be intelligent enough to realise they're not just page-fillers (although the quotes I choose to post may sometimes be - for obvious reasons *smacks own hand*). I don't like to interpret the publications for others as I believe we all get from our readings that which we need to know.