AZ - 2 year old girl almost drowns AGAIN in same pool

[Brefie]

If the child is getting out this much, is that out of control, what does she do IN the home? They stated the child was hard to control and into things, yet all they changed was the pool.

PS, I did not state negligence, what I said was that I don't get how they went big, and didn't see the simple.

The negligence thing was not directed at you, sorry if it seemed that way.

If they had installed the cheap things and they hadn't worked, some would still be calling for heads and loss of custody. A fence installed is PLENTY by way of taking measures. This time it did not work out, but you cannot tell me that CPS would not be satisfied with that move.

As for her getting 'into things' - what 2 year old doesn't? Plenty of kids are headstrong and hard to control, doesn't mean anything about the parents is bad. How many times have mothers said, "Jeez, you need eyes in the back of your head." In my experience, this is mostly said right after a parent has caught a child about to hurt themselves on something.

 

[angelmom]

This is one of those stories where we just don't have enough info. I'm glad CPS is looking into it, b/c it could go either way.

I know my kids are the type that went to bed and stayed in bed. To this day, my DD7 will call me to bring her water. Or tell me that she's going to the bathroom. Thanks for sharing, sweetie!

However, I have known kids who are just into everything, and they are a real challenge. No matter how closely you watch them, it is impossible to be in their sight every second. Some are masters of childproofing (climbing over baby gates, even stacked 2 high, keyed deadbolts, etc.). I feel sorry for the parents of those kids. Thank goodness mine weren't like that.

 

[JanetElaine]

Can someone say 'swimming lessons'? If this child is so hell bent on being in or near the water, then teach her how to handle it.
I was born and raised in an area with loads of open water and there is not a child over 6 years of age that cannot swim (they even learn to swim with clothes on, because that's what you're usually wearing when you get in the water by accident).
Although group lessons usually start at age 4, younger children can get real lessons too (besides from the Mommy and Me stuff) so I know that if there's a teacher available, the concept of learning to swim would not be a problem for a 2 year old.

 

[southcitymom]

Can someone say 'swimming lessons'? If this child is so hell bent on being in or near the water, then teach her how to handle it.
I was born and raised in an area with loads of open water and there is not a child over 6 years of age that cannot swim (they even learn to swim with clothes on, because that's what you're usually wearing when you get in the water by accident).
Although group lessons usually start at age 4, younger children can get real lessons too (besides from the Mommy and Me stuff) so I know that if there's a teacher available, the concept of learning to swim would not be a problem for a 2 year old.

Maybe she has had swimming lessons - we just don't know. But I will say that I don't know too many 2-year-olds who can swim - even after a round of lessons.

 

[Dena]

The negligence thing was not directed at you, sorry if it seemed that way.

If they had installed the cheap things and they hadn't worked, some would still be calling for heads and loss of custody. A fence installed is PLENTY by way of taking measures. This time it did not work out, but you cannot tell me that CPS would not be satisfied with that move.

As for her getting 'into things' - what 2 year old doesn't? Plenty of kids are headstrong and hard to control, doesn't mean anything about the parents is bad. How many times have mothers said, "Jeez, you need eyes in the back of your head." In my experience, this is mostly said right after a parent has caught a child about to hurt themselves on something.

Please don't get me wrong, I understand that completely. I am a mother to a "spirited" 3 year old (just turned) with sensory and speech issues and it has taken all my energy and time to keep him safe. He's a climber and has zero sense of danger.
I don't mean to be coming across in a bad way here, I feel bad for the parent/grandparents, but at the same time, I am having a hard time picturing the whole thing.
I am just happy that this little girl is ok.

 

[southcitymom]

.....I am just happy that this little girl is ok.

Thank goodness the great grandfather knows CPR. That has helped save her life twice.

 

[Brefie]

Please don't get me wrong, I understand that completely. I am a mother to a "spirited" 3 year old (just turned) with sensory and speech issues and it has taken all my energy and time to keep him safe. He's a climber and has zero sense of danger.
I don't mean to be coming across in a bad way here, I feel bad for the parent/grandparents, but at the same time, I am having a hard time picturing the whole thing.
I am just happy that this little girl is ok.

lol at your spirited comment - a woman made a similar comment about my niece to which my sister replied, "If you mean this child is a demented lunatic, then I concur!!" Of course, said with much love and admiration for the child she gets endless entertainment from

Of course we all are happy she is fine

 

[Nocgirl]

my daughter is 2, almost 3. We do not have a pool, and I made my parents get a pool fence and they did. They also have a lock up high that is always locked. I refuse to take the risk. She is almost swimming on her own, grandpa has really been working with her and she knows how to at least swim to the steps or to the side.

 

[Angie4b1g]

The child was found and saved both times - that's pretty competent babysitting and life-saving if you ask me.

During the second incident, the child had been out to bed and was still checked on 5 minutes after that. I never checked on my 2-year-old 5 minutes after I put him to bed, so these elderly caretakers were more cautious than I am. And I am a good mother.

Accidents can and do happen - that's why such a word exists in our language.

We just don't have enough information to assume the worst about this family - in fact the information we do have sheds them in a positive light. They have shown themselves to be responsive and to taking action to protect thye child. We do have enough information to say that they need to develop some stronger safeguards for this child and this pool.

ITA with everything you just said!

 

[eleven]

Can someone say 'swimming lessons'? If this child is so hell bent on being in or near the water, then teach her how to handle it.
I was born and raised in an area with loads of open water and there is not a child over 6 years of age that cannot swim (they even learn to swim with clothes on, because that's what you're usually wearing when you get in the water by accident).
Although group lessons usually start at age 4, younger children can get real lessons too (besides from the Mommy and Me stuff) so I know that if there's a teacher available, the concept of learning to swim would not be a problem for a 2 year old.

You're right - the concept of learning how to swim isn't a problem for a 2 year old. I know this because ALL my kids (I'm 36) learned how to swim by age 2. By 2 1/2, they swam like fish! Of course, they were still monitored every second they were in the pool, but knowing that if there WAS an instance where they fell in, they knew how to safely swim to safety.

We have a huge diving pool in our backyard and always have. There has never been any near-drowings. I guess it helps when you don't have a big opening cut out of your door that leads directly to the pool :doh: (AKA doggy door.)

 

[JanetElaine]

You're right - the concept of learning how to swim isn't a problem for a 2 year old. I know this because ALL my kids (I'm 36) learned how to swim by age 2. By 2 1/2, they swam like fish! Of course, they were still monitored every second they were in the pool, but knowing that if there WAS an instance where they fell in, they knew how to safely swim to safety.

Exactly. Just a couple of lessons aren't going to do it though. I was amazed at how little our niece learned when she took swimming classes... they go by time (so many weeks), not by skill (although they are grouped by skill level). She had barely learned a thing! She was almost 8 at the time. It took our DD quite some time to become a good swimmer (she was old, 5 years, lol). We went for 50 minute classes twice a week for almost a year but she did it!

 

[SewingDeb]

I think a drained pool could be just as dangerous as a full pool to a clueless, spirited 2-year-old. I think the fence around the pool was the best action that could have been taken.

Oh, I didn't mean that they shouldn't have the fence as well as draining the pool. Many communities require a fence if you have a pool.

 

[SewingDeb]

You're right - the concept of learning how to swim isn't a problem for a 2 year old. I know this because ALL my kids (I'm 36) learned how to swim by age 2. By 2 1/2, they swam like fish! Of course, they were still monitored every second they were in the pool, but knowing that if there WAS an instance where they fell in, they knew how to safely swim to safety.

We have a huge diving pool in our backyard and always have. There has never been any near-drowings. I guess it helps when you don't have a big opening cut out of your door that leads directly to the pool :doh: (AKA doggy door.)

All four of mine were swimming like fish by age 2 1/2 also. I believe in starting early. Never had a pool at home though and we didn't want one while they were little.

It may never have crossed their minds that the two year old would go out the doggy door. I know two year olds are extremely fast. I had to put an alarm on my sliding glass door for my youngest when he was that age...lol. He set it off several times because he was determined to go outside whenever I turned my back.

 

[czechmate7]

What I don't get is how a child who is supposedly sleeping in her room (for 5 minutes) jumps out of bed, gets outside, goes through a doggie door and ends up in a pool.
IMO, that is more than one mistake.

1) My son is 3 and we still have a monitor in his room. (so no sneaking out of his room)

2) The area from his room to the main area of the house where all exits are is gated.

3) My doors are locked AND dead-bolted.

Granted, I don't know the setup of their home and how long it would actually take for this baby to get up and out the house and in the pool, it just seems to me that there should be more preventative measures going on in this home. Especially if they say she is a wild child - that's exactly why I have to do these things with my son, and I would do them even if he wasn't, you never know.
A monitor is $20, a gate is $5 and a deadbolt is $15. Probably A LOT cheaper than the gate with doggy door around the pool.
I am just surprised that it would take a second near drowning for a family to seriously evaluate the situation, or to not have seen such simple & normal solutions to protecting a toddler.
I hope they do now.

I'm with you on this.... if the doggy door was in the fence, how on earth did this child get out of the house?
I have a pool and I have double dead bolt locks, an alarm that chimes when a door is opened and a fence (locked at all times) around the pool. Why weren't double dead bolt locks put on the door?? No child (I don't care how old) can work their way out of that!!!! This accident happened 2 too many times...they should have taken better precautions after the 1st incident!! That child should have never been able to step foot out of the house!

 

[Julessleuther]

Thank you Jeana for stating this, you are 100% correct! I used to live in Arizona, where drowning was the #1 cause of death for children under the age of 5. I was President of a moms club, and we had a local mom come talk about water safety. Her son (who was 4 and had taken swim lessons) got into the pool area (her husband was working between the pool and garage, went to the garage for some supplies and left the gate open). Her husband thought her son was with her, she thought the son was with her husband (she was caring for 6 week old twins) and the son fell in the pool and drown. I met her about a yr after it happened, and it was still heartbreaking. I had to read the letter to my club that she wrote to family and friends the Christmas after it happened, and I could barely get through it, I was sobbing so hard--there was not a dry eye in the room. It was a tragic accident, but Druann became determined to teach other people of the dangers, and helped start the Water Watcher program in Phoenix. I worked with her for about a yr on Watcher Watcher fundraisers, and it was suprising how many people take little to none safety precautions with pools. If you have a pool, you MUST have a fence, even if you do not have small children of your own. Neighbor children can get in. You must have a pool fence lock, and a lock on your patio and house doors, that is up high, out of reach of children. Get a pool alarm that can signal if someone is in the pool. If you cannot afford these things, then do not have a pool--the cost is to high if you lose a life. Here is a link to Druann's story:
http://www.azcentral.com/poolsafety/0425evgarza25Z6.html

The people whos granddaughter got in the pool today made an effort by putting up a fence, but must not have had high door locks or a pool fence lock, so their granddaughter was able to get in a second time. I feel they are still negligent--they already had one problem, and should have drained and filled-in the pool, or gone the whole 9 yards and got pool locks with the fence. (The house we live in used to have a pool, it was drained, and then filled in--we now have pretty grass).

I guess I take child drownings very personally because I have witnessed first hand the devastation. If I could get one person to go out and buy a pool fence and locks, it would make all the difference in the world.

There are about a million different safety precautions that can be implemented here. First of all, there are alarms that will sound if the water is broken. There are alarms that can be put on the door that will sound if the door is opened. These cost about $5.00. This could also be put on her bedroom door. There are smaller fences that can be put around the pool to keep children and animals out. We can't get rid of pools, but they can be made safe.

 

[Julessleuther]

Most doggie doors do not go to a pool area, just to an outside garage or patio area. If they have a fence, they would not have a doggie door inside the fence area (most likely). Pool fences are made specifically to go around the water area of a pool, so by local Phoenix law cannot have "doggie doors" etc that lead into it. I used to know Mesa pool fence laws, and unless they have changed in the past five years, doggie doors into a pool fence area are prohibited. Knowing Phoenix FD, they are most likely having CPS investigate because even though they have a fence, it was probably not closed/locked. The people were irresponsible. A fence is not enough if it is not locked. There is no way a 2 yr old could get into a properly locked pool fence. The lock has a special safety latch and is at the top of the fence. That fence had to be open.

 

[Julessleuther]

I really think they were being investigated for having a improperly installed pool fence. I might even add that the pool fence installer be held accountable because a proper pool fence should NOT have or need a doggy door. If those dogs want to swim, you open the gate and let them in. I am sorry, I know that some are quick to jump in the families defense, but I think it is wrong. The 1st time I could see it being a tragic accident, but the 2nd time is negligence.

Three of my four were/are adventurous and it's like a prison around here because the youngest still is. Anyway, here's an update:
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/96336
Family removes doggie door.

 

[Julessleuther]

Huge step would have been to put pool fence safety locks on that fence, with no doggy door. There is absolutely no valid reason for having a doggy door to a pool area. None whatsoever. They did the bare minimum so they would not get in trouble with the law the first time. (Arizona is starting to hold more people accountable for drownings, where there is evidence of neglect.) That pool needs to be drained and sealed up if they cannot afford to properly equip it with safety locks.

I cannot honestly believe that people are calling for this child to be removed from the home. The last time a tragedy happened at this home they took a HUGE step to prevent it happening again. Fair enough, it did not work, but we cannot all be 'parent of the year'. Who is to say what step they will take this time. Perhaps their first thought was "That did not work, the pool has to go."

As for the mother not being in the home at the time of the second tragedy...what if she was at school, trying to get an education and had graciously accepted the offer of a home for herself and her child while she got on her feet? Even if she was out socializing, have we never hired a babysitter for an evening so we can get a break?

I am just amazed at the speed at which some think a child and parent should be separated and the reasons for doing so.

 

[Julessleuther]

A child can drown in under a minute, and in 2 inches of water. That does not mean they were competent, just lucky they found her in time.

The child was found and saved both times - that's pretty competent babysitting and life-saving if you ask me.

During the second incident, the child had been out to bed and was still checked on 5 minutes after that. I never checked on my 2-year-old 5 minutes after I put him to bed, so these elderly caretakers were more cautious than I am. And I am a good mother.

Accidents can and do happen - that's why such a word exists in our language.

We just don't have enough information to assume the worst about this family - in fact the information we do have sheds them in a positive light. They have shown themselves to be responsive and to taking action to protect thye child. We do have enough information to say that they need to develop some stronger safeguards for this child and this pool.

 

[sherri79]

they did not fence in the pool. near the top of the second link is the option to watch a video. the view is not good. looks like it was taken from a neighbors yard. they have a back patio about the size of a king size bed. they placed a fence around it only. the baby would still needed to get out of bed and out the back door then go out the doggy door on the patio gate.

for 6 months they had a 2yr old and a fence around the back porch area. i find it so unlikely that the first time this child tried to go out the doggy door was after she slipped out of bed at night. had this family in 6 months never taken this child on that patio? a doggy door is the perfect height to attract a toddler. they never in all that time saw her try to access the door? even if i believe they never took the time to really think it through and did not realize she could fit out the doggy door when they put up the fence in 6 months of having it they would have seen her attempt to use it.