Identified! AZ - Clarkdale, LIVING Male Amnesiac, Jun'09 - James Steven Inocencio

[Julessleuther]

I am looking through SSDI, ancestry records, and am finding nothing for Sylvia, Juana, and Trisha. Dream---did the LE spell the names for you? I wonder if ithey could be spelled a different way, (Sylvia or Silvia) or if Trisha (Tricia) is short for Patricia or something....

 

[Julessleuther]

Found this accident, but none of the above people are named:
http://www.johnson-law.com/blog/2009/03/10/lawson-family-killed-in-accident/

http://www.johnson-law.com/blog/2009/03/23/gutierrez-family-funeral-services/

 

[Julessleuther]

I realize that none of these fit with the supposed scenario, but you would think with so much information that he has offered, his family would be quickly found. The fact that they have not leads me to think perhaps he is confused about his memories or something. Maybe mental health issues? Take a look at these:

http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?A200805579S

http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?A200604450S

http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?A200604174S

http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?A200502634S

 

[dreamweaver]

I am looking through SSDI, ancestry records, and am finding nothing for Sylvia, Juana, and Trisha. Dream---did the LE spell the names for you? I wonder if ithey could be spelled a different way, (Sylvia or Silvia) or if Trisha (Tricia) is short for Patricia or something....

------------------------------------

LE did not spell the names for me. The information was read out of
the detective's notebook.

 

[dreamweaver]

Found this accident, but none of the above people are named:
http://www.johnson-law.com/blog/2009/03/10/lawson-family-killed-in-accident/

http://www.johnson-law.com/blog/2009/03/23/gutierrez-family-funeral-services/

----------------------------------

Thanks for these links.
I thought of insurance companies, but had not looked very much.

In reading them over, there are no pictures, which is a problem. I thought there might be pictures of the children on the memorial page, but could not pull that link up.

 

[dreamweaver]

I realize that none of these fit with the supposed scenario, but you would think with so much information that he has offered, his family would be quickly found. The fact that they have not leads me to think perhaps he is confused about his memories or something. Maybe mental health issues? Take a look at these:

http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?A200805579S

http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?A200604450S

http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?A200604174S

http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?A200502634S

---------------------
I agree. I don't know that he has 'real' memories.
LE could not find any easily verifable information on his story.
But, he does say he was depressed and that caused him to try to slash his body.
I know that counselors are working with him.
I have not called there yet.

 

[dreamweaver]

None of the men listed as missing seem to be 'Juan' Doe.

I am going to do a little more research tonight.

 

[Donjeta]

IMO the collection of precise facts that he says he remembers and things he don't remember is odd. He remembers dates and his kids names and the traumatic way how they died and how he got to the place he apparently attempted suicide and what happened just a few months or days ago but not his last name or any details from his childhood although he knows his birthday. It doesn't seem to fit either a neurological memory disorder nor a traumatic one very well, more like someone who doesn't want to be recognized and to go home, for mental health reasons maybe, or something else. In neurological memory disorders the identifying information and distant past are usually more preserved than what happened last week or early this year or so, and if it was traumatic blocking you'd think that he'd have blocked the traumatic events like the death of his family and hurting himself but he remembers that. (if it's true although it doesn't appear to be if it's not recorded anywhere)

If there is something wrong with his memory it may be he's confabulating and making up his answers as he goes, there are some memory disorders that make you do that. Alcoholics get that sometimes, vitamin deficiency, and some forms of dementia. He seems pretty young for dementia though. For example, if you see a poster against drunk driving it might trigger a bag of drunk driving stories from the past when nothing like that really happened to you personally. If he's got a real memory disorder then the timings he gives are not to be trusted. Things that happened years ago might seem like yesterday. I wonder if he gave the dates as in "March this year" and if the detective verified that the man knew it was 2009. The thing with confabulating memory disorder is that these patients seldom say they don't remember so he might have made up some stories about his childhood too. The staff of the guidance center who know him should be able to tell; it becomes fairly obvious with time if the stories change when asking the same questions repeatedly, or if the made up stories don’t fit each other or real facts.

Did the detective say if they've interviewed the staff?

 

[Julessleuther]

I agree, thank you for your insight. I think it is odd that no car has been found--how could he have gotten from NM to the Verde River area in AZ? I also think it is odd that his name is Juan and his wife is Juana. Difference of one letter. I did research several high profile drunk driving accidents in NM, but none fit in the time frame or circumstances of his situation. Also, in some of the info about him, it says there is a connection to Oklahoma? Does he have memories of Oklahoma, and if so, what? Maybe the accident took place in TX or OK, not NM? So many what ifs. Dream, I am actually fairly local to the area where he was found---if you need someone local to go see him, I would do it. I am alittle nervous about it, but would do it; perhaps meeting with him in person or a representative of him would yeild more information.

IMO the collection of precise facts that he says he remembers and things he don't remember is odd. He remembers dates and his kids names and the traumatic way how they died and how he got to the place he apparently attempted suicide and what happened just a few months or days ago but not his last name or any details from his childhood although he knows his birthday. It doesn't seem to fit either a neurological memory disorder nor a traumatic one very well, more like someone who doesn't want to be recognized and to go home, for mental health reasons maybe, or something else. In neurological memory disorders the identifying information and distant past are usually more preserved than what happened last week or early this year or so, and if it was traumatic blocking you'd think that he'd have blocked the traumatic events like the death of his family and hurting himself but he remembers that. (if it's true although it doesn't appear to be if it's not recorded anywhere)

If there is something wrong with his memory it may be he's confabulating and making up his answers as he goes, there are some memory disorders that make you do that. Alcoholics get that sometimes, vitamin deficiency, and some forms of dementia. He seems pretty young for dementia though. For example, if you see a poster against drunk driving it might trigger a bag of drunk driving stories from the past when nothing like that really happened to you personally. If he's got a real memory disorder then the timings he gives are not to be trusted. Things that happened years ago might seem like yesterday. I wonder if he gave the dates as in "March this year" and if the detective verified that the man knew it was 2009. The thing with confabulating memory disorder is that these patients seldom say they don't remember so he might have made up some stories about his childhood too. The staff of the guidance center who know him should be able to tell; it becomes fairly obvious with time if the stories change when asking the same questions repeatedly, or if the made up stories don’t fit each other or real facts.

Did the detective say if they've interviewed the staff?

 

[dreamweaver]

Will be talking to guidance center around 1pm today.

 

[Donjeta]

They said he had been in the river. Maybe that's where his car is?

Another thing that seems convenient was that he was able to tell them about his medication.

 

[Julessleuther]

Perhaps, but most of the rivers in AZ are not exactly rivers---they have little to no water in them. It is actually a huge joke here in AZ, as most of the rivers and waterways are dry river beds. The Verde does usually have more (especially now, since there was flooding in Sedona two days ago), but probably not deep enough to hide a car. But who knows? We were near the Verde River last Dec and it was pretty low. The time of year JD was found, there was very little rain, and already hot, but the river could have been higher from winter snow runoff from Flagstaff. I am trying to find data from the Verde River, but according to this, Verde River area was in moderate drought as of June 30th.
http://www.azwater.gov/AzDWR/Statew...ocuments/July 2009 Drought Monitor Report.pdf

I guess I would wonder why someone would have been on that road at 11pm at night--it is very rural and not much traveled, especially at night. Also, why would he go there? Sycamore Canyon is near there, but if he were going somewhere to end his life, wouldn't he go somewhere with more water, like Slide Rock, or go to the Grand Canyon? I wonder if he has family or a family home in the area and he walked to where he was found?

They said he had been in the river. Maybe that's where his car is?

Another thing that seems convenient was that he was able to tell them about his medication.

 

[Julessleuther]

Yes, true. If he knew what medication he as taking, couldn't they contact pharmacies in NM to find out a list of who had been prescribed those medications? Places like CVS and Walgreens have centralized databanks. Also, if he thinks he is from Albuqueque, why not contact hospitals to see if any Drs know who he is. I am going to work on that past of it! I wonder why LE are no longer involved, that does not seem right. Dream, do you know if a flier has been made up? Does he have a spokesperson you are talking to, or are you going to be talking directly to him?

They said he had been in the river. Maybe that's where his car is?

Another thing that seems convenient was that he was able to tell them about his medication.

 

[dreamweaver]

About the car: I asked lots of questions.
The detective said they searched the river, both sides of the river, up and down the river. Nothing found.
He said that the next day he was out there in the 4 wheel drive vehicle, searching the desert.
He said there was no red Taurus car found. There was no backpack found. And interestingly, no knife found. And Juan Doe did cut and slash himself.

The Verde River, per the detective, is very shallow. He said, he could drive a car across it. He did say that in the rainy season, it can be kind of dangerous.
And Juan Doe was not found in the river, he was found beside the river, but was wet and bleeding from all the cuts on his body.

The detective did not know what kind of medication Juan Doe was taking.
Juan Doe said he was at the tail end of his heart medication.
I asked if the hospital ran a drug and alcohol screen and a tox screen. He said he did not know.
I asked if the hospital did cat scan/mri of Juan's brain and/or other parts of his body.
The detective did not know.

Per the detective, Juan Doe is very articulate and intelligent.

As for Juan's story, it has always been a little 'off' in my mind.
It is one reason I wanted to hear what the police had to say.

So, does he have amnesia?
If he is a little 'fuzzy' about things, did he deliberately make up stories about himself?

If he does have amnesia, it just does not seem like it will be long lasting.
If not, he is getting a free ride from the state of Arizona.

 

[dreamweaver]

The detective said they have handed this matter off to the guidance center.
He said, it is not a criminal matter.

Juan Doe is staying at the guidance center, receiving medical and psychological help.
He is assigned a guidance counselor, who handles his case.
I doubt I will be talking to directly to him, unless the guidance counselor says yes.

I do not remember a flier, although the detective says their media person sent info out to all PD's.
Will check my bookmarks, but I don't think so.

I did not call there today.
I will try in am, do not know if calling on Sunday will be a problem or not.

 

[dreamweaver]

I have NOTHING on line about the stories he has told about.
So far, I am unable to match anything.

 

[Julessleuther]

Dream, thank you for doing all this. As far as JD, you have said exactly what I have been thinking, there are just too many what ifs, and too many wierd things that do not add up. I do wonder, however, how much investigating the LE has done. His car could have been found abandoned in Flagstaff, and if LE did not followup, they would not connect it. What is LE's take on all this dream---do they think that these are "false memories"? What is their hypothesis on how he wound up where he did?

About the car: I asked lots of questions.
The detective said they searched the river, both sides of the river, up and down the river. Nothing found.
He said that the next day he was out there in the 4 wheel drive vehicle, searching the desert.
He said there was no red Taurus car found. There was no backpack found. And interestingly, no knife found. And Juan Doe did cut and slash himself.

The Verde River, per the detective, is very shallow. He said, he could drive a car across it. He did say that in the rainy season, it can be kind of dangerous.
And Juan Doe was not found in the river, he was found beside the river, but was wet and bleeding from all the cuts on his body.

The detective did not know what kind of medication Juan Doe was taking.
Juan Doe said he was at the tail end of his heart medication.
I asked if the hospital ran a drug and alcohol screen and a tox screen. He said he did not know.
I asked if the hospital did cat scan/mri of Juan's brain and/or other parts of his body.
The detective did not know.

Per the detective, Juan Doe is very articulate and intelligent.

As for Juan's story, it has always been a little 'off' in my mind.
It is one reason I wanted to hear what the police had to say.

So, does he have amnesia?
If he is a little 'fuzzy' about things, did he deliberately make up stories about himself?

If he does have amnesia, it just does not seem like it will be long lasting.
If not, he is getting a free ride from the state of Arizona.

 

[Julessleuther]

Me either, and I kind of became obsessed with this yesterday--I found nothing either.

To give him the benefit of the doubt, however, perhaps he just has his dates off, as well as location. That would be plausible.

Did LE say if they contacted Albuquerque LE? How can they say it is not criminal---how do they know 100% that he did this to himself and not attacked and left there for dead? Perhaps he is covering for someone.

I have NOTHING on line about the stories he has told about.
So far, I am unable to match anything.

 

[dreamweaver]

I talked with the guidance center today.
The person I was referred to had just arrived back at work from two weeks away.
We talked some about Juan Doe.
But he said he would talk with the case manager for Juan Doe and get back with me.
He wanted up to date information.
He did say that a reporter had interviewed Juan Doe and was going to do some investigation.
I hope to get that person's name tomorrow.

 

[dreamweaver]

Spoke with guidance center again today.
Case manager of Juan Doe will talk with him and
then let me know if more details can be released.

I do have the phone number and name of the reporter who interviewed him.