AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #23

[winterrose]

I think the fact that SC wasn't at the fundraiser pretty much answers the CPS agreement situation. KWIM I guess he's still under the no contact order. Two months and still can't see the boys,it can't be a light thing as to why CPS had the agreement with him.

Looking at the video is disturbing, once again, no emotion from RC. The people in the background laughing. Where are the rest of the family members, have they all backed off?

 

[elmomom]

The "gun toting thing" refers to the Fast and Furious case that the Feds are working on investigating. In brief, during Bush's admin and continued into Obama's, guns were exported through less than legal means into Mexico with the sanction of the justice department, with the thinking that they could be used to track down cartel members. It was a fiasco, but what is related here is that some big league witnesses in a federal case involving the F&F case were supposed to testify against some defendants, and have changed their minds about this testimony, and the change of mind occurred right after Isabel went missing. THIS is why the word CARTEL has come up over and over earlier in the forum.. Whether or not any of the players are actually related to SC I am not certain, but that is what the basis of the speculation over "cartel involvement" is about. In this scheme, Isabel is being held to prevent certain testimony from being heard.

 

[liz b.]

The Celis family is not wealthy enough for a ransom demand. Also, I'm pretty sure if there was a ransom demand, the government would help out. IDK, but I don't think they would just leave it up the family to raise millions of dollars, like "your problem, not ours".

Kidnapping is a crime which brings in the FBI. The FBI will put up ransom money. Marked bills, and they are usually confident that they will get the $$$ back.... JMO

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Kidnapping is a crime which brings in the FBI. The FBI will put up ransom money. Marked bills, and they are usually confident that they will get the $$$ back.... JMO

Can you imagine the outrage if a child was killed because the parents couldn't get the money for a ransom and the FBI wouldn't help? :what:

But I'm pretty sure the last case where money was sent because of a ransom note had to be in the 1930's or 1940's, right? Lindbergh baby, and a few copycats afterwards....But I don't think any in decades, right? I'm not counting JBR because money was never exchanged.

 

[Ransom]

Can you imagine the outrage if a child was killed because the parents couldn't get the money for a ransom and the FBI wouldn't help? :what:

But I'm pretty sure the last case where money was sent because of a ransom note had to be in the 1930's or 1940's, right? Lindbergh baby, and a few copycats afterwards....But I don't think any in decades, right? I'm not counting JBR because money was never exchanged.

No. Samantha Koenig case in Alaska. Body found April 2012. Ransom demand/murder, etc.

http://media.adn.com/smedia/2012/04/18/14/15/1p69CS.So.7.pdf

 

[Dee10]

I am still hung up on the screen. I have never heard the term "knocked down". Wondering if this might be a southern type phrase and is there anything we can glean from this woman's description? Whether it is true or not we don't know, I just don't understand what she means. TIA

Quote:
(CBS News) Investigators say they've found "suspicious circumstances around a possible entry point" at the home of missing six-year old Isabel Mercedes Celis. But Tucson police spokeswoman Sgt. Maria Hawke wouldn't comment on whether the entry point was a bedroom window or a door.

Family friend Mary Littlehorn said she heard from others close to the family that a window screen in the girl's bedroom had been knocked down.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_1...ing-ariz-girl/

__________________


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=8079056

 

[Azcrabcakes]

The "gun toting thing" refers to the Fast and Furious case that the Feds are working on investigating. In brief, during Bush's admin and continued into Obama's, guns were exported through less than legal means into Mexico with the sanction of the justice department, with the thinking that they could be used to track down cartel members. It was a fiasco, but what is related here is that some big league witnesses in a federal case involving the F&F case were supposed to testify against some defendants, and have changed their minds about this testimony, and the change of mind occurred right after Isabel went missing. THIS is why the word CARTEL has come up over and over earlier in the forum.. Whether or not any of the players are actually related to SC I am not certain, but that is what the basis of the speculation over "cartel involvement" is about. In this scheme, Isabel is being held to prevent certain testimony from being heard.

The testimony change, the timing and the fact that two of the primary players in Fast and Furious have the same last name as SC and of course rumors are... I would LOVE to have time to dig into THAT one.

 

[Aura]

Thanks for explaining the F & F. Ive heard alot about it, I thought The F & F was more to do with that Border Patrol Agent that got shot in mexico. I admit, I havent been able to read every post posted here on the Isa threads. Ya this is all making me very curious.

 

[Azcrabcakes]

I am still hung up on the screen. I have never heard the term "knocked down". Wondering if this might be a southern type phrase and is there anything we can glean from this woman's description? Whether it is true or not we don't know, I just don't understand what she means. TIA

Quote:
(CBS News) Investigators say they've found "suspicious circumstances around a possible entry point" at the home of missing six-year old Isabel Mercedes Celis. But Tucson police spokeswoman Sgt. Maria Hawke wouldn't comment on whether the entry point was a bedroom window or a door.

Family friend Mary Littlehorn said she heard from others close to the family that a window screen in the girl's bedroom had been knocked down.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_1...ing-ariz-girl/

__________________


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=8079056

Verbal skills just are not what they used to be! I can only assume she meant "knocked over" or "knocked out" as in "pushed out."

 

[TxLady2]

Ha, sounds like the equivalent of the English and Irish "our <insert name>." For example, saying "our Nan" or "our Donald" rather than just "Nan" or "Donald."

All it means is "the Nan you and I know rather than any other Nan." To people from other parts of the world, it sounds odd but from my mom, it was just the sound of home.

I have no idea how a statement analysand would treat that coming from the mouth of the parent of a missing child but I'd be afraid to look.

Truth is, when someone from another part of the U.S. analyzes statements made by a person in another part of the country, they should do some research and find out if that expression is common to someone from that part of the country, instead of basing their opinions on what sounds strange to them. I married a guy who was raised in KS, and although he's been in TX for 30 years, he still thinks some of our expressions are funny. For instance, some of the older folks might ask someone to carry them to the store, which makes him picture them toting another person piggy back down the road. Or when I tell him I'm going to run up to town, he will ask me why don't I just get in the car and drive up there. He does not say "y'all" so I haven't succeeded in Texanizing him yet, but still working on it.
It's been said that TX is a country all on its own, but we still adhere to a lot of the Southern speech patterns,
Cajuns in LA say "Bring youself on over here" instead of "Come over here."

 

[TxLady2]

Southern girl, born and raised. ITA.

My ex and I will look at each other during school events or performances and say "G*d, I love that child!"

And I often say "my girl" when talking about her to people who know her and know her name.

Thank you!

 

[TxLady2]

As I said... if he got arrested and did time for this... then would he leave a living victim next time to testify?

Or maybe he decided it would be easier to take a girl and KEEP her... rather than risking taking more than one.
His age preference appears to be up to 13. Maybe this IS a Jaycee/Elizabeth type situation and he plans to keep Isa.

I don't understand why there are indications Isa's abduction is not sexually motivated?
There was no semen found in Elizabeth Smart's room... she was being taken no need to assault her IN the house.

If someone came in intending to TAKE Isa and KEEP Isa, why waste time with any type of assault IN the house?

My cousin got 5 years in Arizona for dating a girl with her own car, own apartment, in college and had a fake ID.
Had NO clue she was under 18... and he had plenty of evidence she was over 18. Still got 5 years.
Yet, this guy gets out? Fabulous. :banghead:

Exactly!! Even if he only intended to keep her for a little while, say a day or a week, most predators wait until they get AWAY from the home to do the assault. Most of them won't attempt anything in the home, their intent is grabbing the child and getting them out of the house and off the property.

 

[Dymphna]

The first thing that jumped out at me is that they were at the ball park doing ANOTHER fundraiser. I may be way off base here but I know that personally I have been turned off from this whole case due to the fact that it seems like the most important thing in this case is money. I mean they have donation information on the flipping missing flier. Give me a break! I'm not saying that they did something to her but they sure seem to be taking advantage of the situation. They say that interest has waned off and I can't help but wonder if this isn't a factor. Sorry, this just really makes me angry.

Why do I keep thinking about sweet Madeleine McCann? :waitasec:

 

[GrainneDhu]

Exactly!! Even if he only intended to keep her for a little while, say a day or a week, most predators wait until they get AWAY from the home to do the assault. Most of them won't attempt anything in the home, their intent is grabbing the child and getting them out of the house and off the property.

That Phoenix case neatly illustrates what I find myself writing over and over: it's impossible to rule something out as being "too risky" because predators view risk in such a different way than normal humans.

My guess as to why the Phoenix guy got such a light sentence was that the prosecutor probably felt they had witness problems. Some small children make great witnesses but most just don't, for a variety of reasons. So they got him on what they could and the judge sentenced him based on what he was charged with.

 

[Prof]

He had six counts charged, but took a plea for 3...

 

[Salem]

New thread here: AZ AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #24 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


This one will be closing in just a moment or two.

Salem

 

[LisaB]

Very true! One more example: people misusing the words 'know' and 'no', 'there' and 'their', and a few more I can't think of right now.

My pet peeve: COMPOSE and COMPRISE