That's *horrible*. And also the exact opposite of what I used to advise parents--that while corporal punishment was allowed in my state, it was frowned on in my community, and I strongly advised against it. The caveat was that if you *were* going to use corporal punishment, to never, ever, ever use anything other than your hand (and that if you left marks, you were going to be in deep s*it with CPS).
GUILTY AZ - Scott & Andrea Bass for child abuse, Phoenix, 2010
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That's *horrible*. And also the exact opposite of what I used to advise parents--that while corporal punishment was allowed in my state, it was frowned on in my community, and I strongly advised against it. The caveat was that if you *were* going to use corporal punishment, to never, ever, ever use anything other than your hand (and that if you left marks, you were going to be in deep s*it with CPS).
not_my_kids
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That's brilliant strategy there. Children raised in homes that are covered with a cloud of constant fear always grow up to be healthy, happy, productive adults. :banghead:
If the day ever comes where I am required to liberally scatter plumbing supples through my home to terrify my children into compliance, the day has come for me to get out of the mothering game.
I wonder, too, why it's necessary to "keep the kids in line." Are children so unruly? Perhaps they're bored and need some direction. Perhaps they need an outlet. Honestly, I consider my kids to be normal, healthy, active kids, and I never felt like I needed to "keep them in line." Occasionally they did something wrong and needed punishment (I don't even like that word...redirection maybe is better), but for the most part they were just kids. These people make it sound like the kids are constantly looking for ways to be bad, like they are delinquents, not their own children.
Maybe this is my problem with this Quiverfull movement. It seems like they are raising tiny armies, not a houseful of kids.
Maybe this is my problem with this Quiverfull movement. It seems like they are raising tiny armies, not a houseful of kids.
Mr. E--What you and I expect and accept concerning our kids has NOTHING to do with Biblical Chastisement. They are looking for total toe-the-line perfection. We want healthy, balanced, kind-hearted, fun-loving kids. I've even tried looking at this through the eyes of animal training as I've worked in small dog rescue for years. Nope, wouldn't work with dogs either. As if every dog "owner" wants to have their pet quiver with fear when they walk in.
My guess is that fear really drives this form of punishment--the parent's fear. If the parent is not totally in control and can never ever be questioned, everything they've worked so hard to build up will crumble. This is my problem with all Fundamentalist religions. Life is not about achieving perfection. It's about living and loving IMO.
BTW, I love the name of the blog, "nolongerquivering".
My guess is that fear really drives this form of punishment--the parent's fear. If the parent is not totally in control and can never ever be questioned, everything they've worked so hard to build up will crumble. This is my problem with all Fundamentalist religions. Life is not about achieving perfection. It's about living and loving IMO.
BTW, I love the name of the blog, "nolongerquivering".
From what I remember in my college survey psych courses, there are several different types of parents. "Authoritarian" and "permissive" are at opposite ends of the spectrum. Parents who fit these descriptions can expect to have more problems from their kids because they are either to stiff to bend, or they bend too much. A middle ground, where boundaries are set, but at the same time there is give and take, is ideal. "Authoritarian" and "permissive" parents would find themselves having more problems with rebellion; the middle ground parents would have more well-adjusted kids. This is all according to my survey psych courses, but it makes sense to me. I'd be interested to know if quiverfull/fundamentalist parents have more problems with rebellion. My own relatives who fit most closely that description (they are somewhat fundamentalist, I suppose) had five kids. One of those kids (the youngest) did rebel and had a lot of problems with drugs, run-ins with the law, etc. All the rest are well-adjusted, contributing members of society, married and with families of their own. I wonder how other families fare? For me, if my parents treated me like that, I would either, a) hit back as soon as I was able or b) leave as soon as I was able.
We've always used the "swoop" method in our family with little ones to great success. When a toddler (or any child that is big enough to easily lift) is acting out or getting into trouble, we swooped them up and either talked to them or placed them in another area. It was the surprise factor that worked. The "outta the pool" idea.
We also used to grab hold of children's hands or arms (not hit them but grasp them) and say "no". I can't figure out what the Biblical Disciplinarians problem is with "time-outs". When you are working with foster children or adopted kids who have suffered loss and trauma, it is recognized that one should never isolate a child. However, I've had great success with short "time-outs" while children are within sight of me.
I learned many of my techniques of discipline in working as a Head Start teacher and as an educational aid in a pre-school for the profoundly developmentally disabled. Trust me, those teachers have to get creative. I learned from some pros.
Mr. E--I remember some of the same training in one of the classes I took on child development. There's another form of parenting IIRC. It's called the "authoritative parent". I fall more into that category. Most of my kids desperately needed guidance and structure and I provided it for those who needed it. Each child is different, though, and authoritative is too strong for some. Some kids need the gentlest guidance.
When you have the privilege of raising 14, as I have, you get the perk of experiencing the full gamut. But no one, no one deserves beatings with plumbing supplies. If Debi Pearl is considered "relatively mainstream", I have to wonder what the radical thought is. Are the men taught to use the plumbing supply lines on their wives when they step out of line?
We also used to grab hold of children's hands or arms (not hit them but grasp them) and say "no". I can't figure out what the Biblical Disciplinarians problem is with "time-outs". When you are working with foster children or adopted kids who have suffered loss and trauma, it is recognized that one should never isolate a child. However, I've had great success with short "time-outs" while children are within sight of me.
I learned many of my techniques of discipline in working as a Head Start teacher and as an educational aid in a pre-school for the profoundly developmentally disabled. Trust me, those teachers have to get creative. I learned from some pros.
Mr. E--I remember some of the same training in one of the classes I took on child development. There's another form of parenting IIRC. It's called the "authoritative parent". I fall more into that category. Most of my kids desperately needed guidance and structure and I provided it for those who needed it. Each child is different, though, and authoritative is too strong for some. Some kids need the gentlest guidance.
When you have the privilege of raising 14, as I have, you get the perk of experiencing the full gamut. But no one, no one deserves beatings with plumbing supplies. If Debi Pearl is considered "relatively mainstream", I have to wonder what the radical thought is. Are the men taught to use the plumbing supply lines on their wives when they step out of line?
I just found something interesting. I don't exactly know why but several news sources have published this child's bio-mom's name. I found that odd at the time. I would have thought that would be confidential or that at least they would have attempted to contact her before running her name. I can't print her name as I feel she's not involved but you can find it here in the 7th paragraph:
http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2010/02/22/20100222phx-child-abuse-abrk0222.html
Now that you know the mom's name, go to the following site and read the comments by this woman and the child's aunt, posted on Feb. 13th-15th:
http://www.truecrimereport.com/2010/02/scott_bass_andrea_bass_kept_da.php
As I posted up-thread, I found a person related to TA who is an attorney in the midwest. I'm surprised that they were not able to find this child. Hopefully, this young lady has a safe family resource.
http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2010/02/22/20100222phx-child-abuse-abrk0222.html
Now that you know the mom's name, go to the following site and read the comments by this woman and the child's aunt, posted on Feb. 13th-15th:
http://www.truecrimereport.com/2010/02/scott_bass_andrea_bass_kept_da.php
As I posted up-thread, I found a person related to TA who is an attorney in the midwest. I'm surprised that they were not able to find this child. Hopefully, this young lady has a safe family resource.
Rayemonde
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Rayemonde
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Rayemonde
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It's all to easy for the victims to fall for the same stuff, I did this so it's my fault, if I kept my mouth shut this wouldn't of happened... You got to stand up for yourself, or do it for those who can't. Been there, done that, not going to let anyone else go through it..
I went to school with Andrea. I chanced upon this and googled her mugshot and it looked like the Andrea Gould I remembered. I checked the birth year too and she's the same age as me, and she would have been in the same grade. I didn't know her well but we had a few classes together. One of my friends had a crush on her in the 9th grade and he would tell me about her and how she'd invite him sometimes to bible studies. She seemed nice and normal but definitely religious and I think maybe her background was fundamentalist christian of one type or another. She played on the school basketball team and was friendly. I recall seeing messages on the HS alumni site on facebook with religious messages like about 'God' and 'Divine Light" and stuff like that. Who could have guessed she'd turn out to be a total abusive psycho. The CPS reports by the way are from California. That's probably why AZ authorities may not have known about them.