Basic Questions

[MIBRO]

Odd that there should be speculation that the Stines were not friends of the Ramseys BEFORE the murder since the Ramseys did stop off at their house the night of December 25th to deliver a Christmas gift for them. I would suggest that such a gesture might imply friendship.

 

[BlueCrab]

Bluecrab,
Do you have any quotes or links or anything that says John Ramsey recognized the garrote as a sexual device? Who is Lou Smit? Does it appear to be that AutoErotic Practice is what caused JBR's death, or do you think that it's just part of the staging after-the-fact? Thanks for your input.

SieSie,

In an interview by the Denver Rocky Mountain News in 2000, John said while describing who he thinks the killer is:

"He is a pedophile with a preference for little girls. He is a sociopath experienced with autoerotic asphyxiation, the use of garrotes to enhance sex."

Lou Smit is a retired detective who has worked the case for years and believes an intruder killed JonBenet.

I believe JonBenet died accidentally while erotic asphyxiation was being practiced on her, and the grisly part of the staging was carried out by children trying to coverup the sexual aspects of her death, but who were joined later by the parents who added the finishing touches of the staging prior to calling 911.

JMO

 

[Shylock]

Odd that there should be speculation that the Stines were not friends of the Ramseys BEFORE the murder since the Ramseys did stop off at their house the night of December 25th to deliver a Christmas gift for them. I would suggest that such a gesture might imply friendship.

Hardy "speculation" - Did you read the quote from John himself?
"They were not close friends, believe it or not. They were friends, but we didn't socialize a lot with them."

Skip back a page and read the quotes in posts 12 & 15 of this thread. Then keep in mind that the Stines for some reason were NOT called over with the Whites and Fernies the morning of the murder.

 

[Britt]

Odd that there should be speculation that the Stines were not friends of the Ramseys BEFORE the murder since the Ramseys did stop off at their house the night of December 25th to deliver a Christmas gift for them. I would suggest that such a gesture might imply friendship.

True. If that's why they stopped by. Maybe they stopped by to pick up Doug.

Anyway, at the party on December 23rd, wasn't it Stine who threw herself between the cops and a Ramsey when the cops came to investigate the aborted 911 call? That right there makes me very suspicious of the Stines.

I think the question should be: Why, after the murder, would John try to distance himself from the Stines during the pre-murder period by claiming not to have been friends during that time?

IMO all the mysteries of this case can be cleared up by analyzing the Ramseys' lies, inconsistent statements and inventions.... just like the staged crime scene... look at what they're trying to hide, not at what they're trying to present. But I digress.

Maybe BlueCrab is right about something going on with those boys. Not necessarily that they killed JB, but maybe they were the ones "playing doctor" with her... maybe such an episode triggered the incident that did kill her... maybe Doug was simply an overnight guest on the 25th, he and Burke are totally uninvolved, but the Ramseys feared the boys might become unfavorable witnesses, so they latched on to the Stines to keep things under control.

 

[Ivy]

If, when the Ramseys stopped by the Stines, Doug went home with them, maybe to see Burke's Christmas gifts, it could explain why the Ramseys decided not to stop at the Fernies. If the plan was to drop Doug off at home on the way to the airport early the next morning, it might have taken Doug some time to get his overnight things packed (or thrown into a sack.)

However, one of the problems I have with the 5th person theory is that I find it unlikely that Burke would have made himself a glass of tea to drink while JonBenet ate pineapple, without getting his friend something to drink as well. I can't picture Burke sitting at his place at the table drinking tea, and his friend sitting at the table with nothing or amusing himself by playing with Burke's gifts while Burke sat at the table with JonBenet.

IMO

 

[Brefie]

In PMPT's name index Doug Stine's name appears 9 times, but in the text it appears just once.
JMO

I am so glad you posted this. I tried to cheat and use the index to find all references to the Stine family and noticed that I was only a page away from a 'mention', but roughly 10 pages later, I noticed that there was no mention.
I think I was at a juicy part, because I didn't double check anything, but it all falls into place now.

Thanks!

 

[Barbara]

The Stine family is just about as evil as the Ramsey family

Susan Stine and the ever "Christian" Patsy once made some prank calls (during Patsy's grieving time no less) to a reporter's wife telling them that he had an extramarital affair going on. They did this to get even with the reporter and Patsy just thought that was the funniest thing ever. AND..was very proud of this to the point that she herself tells the story in DOI. That was one of the more despicable things that Patsy has done in the same breath as her preachings of Christianity. For anyone who has ever experienced the fear of a spouse cheating, or finding out they are cheating knows how painful that is and Patsy, the wife of an adulterer who should have known this, thought this was a great prank. It is vicious and downright mean, especially from someone who tries to portray her love of God as something sincere. But thank goodness there are those of us with functioning intellect who know better and see right through that charade.

Susan Stine was also a "friend" of Patsy who thought it would be a hoot to pretend to be Chief Beckner and sent out e mails to many important people impersonating him UNTIL she got caught by law enforcement.

What great gals!

 

[Shylock]

For anyone who has ever experienced the fear of a spouse cheating, or finding out they are cheating knows how painful that is and Patsy, the wife of an adulterer who should have known this, thought this was a great prank.

Oh, well let's not forget that according to Thomas, Patsy denied knowing about John's cheating which caused his divorce. Patsy's family all knew about it, but it was another thing that Patsy managed to forget during her interviews with LE.

Patsy should write a book on, "Mastering Selective Memory Recall".

 

[MIBRO]

Quote:
Originally Posted by MIBRO
Odd that there should be speculation that the Stines were not friends of the Ramseys BEFORE the murder since the Ramseys did stop off at their house the night of December 25th to deliver a Christmas gift for them. I would suggest that such a gesture might imply friendship.
Hardy "speculation" - Did you read the quote from John himself?
"They were not close friends, believe it or not. They were friends, but we didn't socialize a lot with them."

Hardy speculation? Umm, Shylock, if you would be kind enough to read what I posted a little more carefully, as John (and I) said, "they were friends", however, some postings on this thread have implied they were not. Obviously, they were. The Stines accommodated the Ramseys with a place to stay beginning in February '97. Sounds like pretty good friends to me. Maybe their socializing was limited due to the Ramseys' time spent with the Whites, having their daughters and sons and other interests in common. It doesn't sound like the Stine family matched up as well (no daughter JonBenét's age) for more family socializing. The Ramseys didn't strike up a NEW friendship with the Stines following the murder. They just enhanced it.

 

[Barbara]

Hardy speculation? Umm, Shylock, if you would be kind enough to read what I posted a little more carefully, as John (and I) said, "they were friends", however, some postings on this thread have implied they were not. Obviously, they were. The Stines accommodated the Ramseys with a place to stay beginning in February '97. Sounds like pretty good friends to me. Maybe their socializing was limited due to the Ramseys' time spent with the Whites, having their daughters and sons and other interests in common. It doesn't sound like the Stine family matched up as well (no daughter JonBenét's age) for more family socializing. The Ramseys didn't strike up a NEW friendship with the Stines following the murder. They just enhanced it.

MIBRO,

Perhaps it is you who should read a little more carefully. Nobody stated that the Stines and the Ramseys weren't friends, just that they weren't close friends. Having said that, it is also true that we all have friends such as the Stines insofar as not socializing all that much due to different interests and such.

The point is: How many of those type of "friends" would you expect to open their home to a whole family for a SIX MONTH PERIOD, protect you like the pitbull that Susan Stine has been called, risk their own family's lives having the Ramseys live there (after all, it was assumed by many that a murdering intruder was out there gunning for the Ramseys), and then to top it all off: Actually move away from HOME to another state to be near them and continue to protect, pull pranks, impersonate a police chief to gather information for the Ramseys etc.?

None of my friends, other than my dearest and closest would be expected to do all that, especially to risk the lives of their own family knowing that a murderer was out there.

So MIBRO, it is not just a matter of reading more carefully, but a matter of reading between the lines as well. Many of the posters here have mastered that.

 

[Shylock]

The point is: How many of those type of "friends" would you expect to open their home to a whole family for a SIX MONTH PERIOD, protect you like the pitbull that Susan Stine has been called, risk their own family's lives having the Ramseys live there (after all, it was assumed by many that a murdering intruder was out there gunning for the Ramseys), and then to top it all off: Actually move away from HOME to another state to be near them and continue to protect, pull pranks, impersonate a police chief to gather information for the Ramseys etc.?

Exactly Barbara. The Stines actually gave up their professional careers to brown-nose the Ramseys all the way to Atlanta. Why? Either BlueCrab is right about some type of involvement in the crime by Doug Stine, or Susan Stine is bisexual and had the serious hots for Patsy.

 

[Seeker]

I haven't read the entire 3 pages of this thread, so please excuse the post if it duplicates someone elses info...

Wasn't it Susan Stine who answered the door at the Ramsey home during their x-mas party 12/23? A 911 call was placed (if memory serves) at approximately 9pm that evening, no one answered the phone when 911 called back so they sent a unit over. Stine answered the door didn't she, and told the officers nothing was wrong?

That was before the murder, they were friends of the Ramsey's before the murder...good friends.

 

[Barbara]

That was before the murder, they were friends of the Ramsey's before the murder...good friends.

These are John Ramsey's own words:

"They were not close friends, believe it or not. They were friends, but we didn't socialize a lot with them."

 

[Ivy]

What's interesting is that in his deposition, John didn't mention the Stines until he was asked if anyone ran interference for him and Patsy. Earlier in the deposition, after he'd named his and Patsy's close friends, John was asked to name people who weren't their good friends, but just people they were on friendly terms with. He didn't name the Stines then either, even though he named a neighbor whose last name he couldn't even recall. I agree with posters who think that for some reason, John was deliberately trying to downplay his and Patsy's relationship with the Stines.

imo

 

[BlueCrab]

I haven't read the entire 3 pages of this thread, so please excuse the post if it duplicates someone elses info...

Wasn't it Susan Stine who answered the door at the Ramsey home during their x-mas party 12/23? A 911 call was placed (if memory serves) at approximately 9pm that evening, no one answered the phone when 911 called back so they sent a unit over. Stine answered the door didn't she, and told the officers nothing was wrong?

That was before the murder, they were friends of the Ramsey's before the murder...good friends.

Yes Seeker. Word has it the conversation went something like this:

Knock. Knock.

"Who's there?"

"It's the police."

"What do you want?"

"I'm here because of a hang-up 911 call. Please open the door."

"We're busy right now. Come back later."

"But I'm from the BPD. I'm here to protect and serve."

"Go away or I'll call a ..., never mind. Just go away."

"Okay. If you need anything, always remember, we're here to protect and serve.

"Just go away! Now, where were we?"


JMO

 

[Ivy]

ROFL, BC! Funneeee.

imo

 

[Barbara]

Maybe she said that she was Chief Beckner and had everything under control. Who knows how long she has been Chief Beckner

 

[Seeker]

These are John Ramsey's own words:

Well that would do it for me if I didn't know John was a pathological liar.

I can cite examples of his lies and distortions if need be, but so can anyone else who has followed this case.

 

[Britt]

How many of those type of "friends" would you expect to open their home to a whole family for a SIX MONTH PERIOD, protect you like the pitbull that Susan Stine has been called...

IMO this is precisely why the Stines weren't summoned the morning of the 26th. The Ramseys needed and planned for the Stine hideout, complete with guard dog. The Ramseys chose the Stines for this role because they were easy pickins - no one else wanted to suck up and attach themselves to the Ramseys like the Stines did, at least Susan. JMO.

Two reasons for not summoning them:

1. To keep them separate from the crime scene. IMO one of the purposes of the Kidnapping Brunch was so the guests would deposit evidence. I even believe John planted foreign DNA evidence or tried to, courtesy of the guests - the multiple-donor DNA that can't ID anyone but can sure screw up a crime scene. The Ramseys had to keep the Stines clear of any scrutiny in order keep investigators away from the Ramseys' intended hideout.

2. To keep the Stines blind and stupid and easier to manipulate. Any Stine suspicion of the Ramseys would put a serious crimp in the Ramseys' hideout plans.

 

[Britt]

Well that would do it for me if I didn't know John was a pathological liar.

I completely agree, Seeker. That's why I say we should always look at what he doesn't want us to look at, if we want to find the truth. If he says go East... go West.