Bedtime Dec 26 - DOI/PMPT AND A Candy Rose

[aspidistra]

If it were not for the pineapple there would be scope for questioning if JonBenet was alive at all when they arrived back.


No mention of her socks, tights whatever?


imo JonBenet never went to bed, she either went and did her own thing or/and joined in a domestic snack as per the pineapple, then later her killer took what appeared to be an ideal opportunity to molest her, which ended with her death.


.

In one police interview, Patsy said she took off the velvet pants JBR wore to the party. She found some long johns (also called long underwear or pajama bottoms) and put them on. There is no mention of socks. She remained sleeping in the shirt she wore to the party, and was found dead in the shirt and longjohns, but with different, too-large panties on under the longjohns.

I don't believe she ate pineapple in the house that night. The vegetable matter in her intestine had to be from the party. They admit they did not watch what she ate. It is true the killer might have fed her pineapple, but it seems to be too far digested to have happened that way unless he fed it immediately and she didn't die until many hours later. Because of the risk of being caught I don't think the killer spent that many hours with her in the house.

 

[narlacat]

The White's have said that they did not serve pineapple that night.

 

[K. Taylor]

There is no evidence she woke up or was awake or ate anything before she was found dead. In my opinion.

The autopsy report shows that she ate it only a couple of hours before her death. Her crab meal that she ate at the Whites had been digested and turned into fecal matter. There was another post that I can't find that broke down the entire timeline and rates of digestion to show that it was impossible for JonBenet to have eaten pineapple at the Whites. That's forensic evidence.
Are you also, BTW, discounting Burke's statement to the police that JonBenet was awake when they arrived home? That's eyewitness evidence, even if you ignore John's OTHER comment that JB was awake.

Plus how do you explain away the coincidence of there being a bowl of fresh pineapple in the Ramsey home and fresh pineapple being in JonBenet's stomach? Do you have evidence of the Whites even having pineapple? IMO, saying "We can't prove that they didn't" is not enough when we have proof that the Ramseys did. When there's a bowl of the very same thing that was found in JonBenet's stomach in the Ramsey home with Ramsey prints on it - and forensic evidence shows that JonBenet ate it after she got home from the Whites' party - if you want to say that JonBenet ate it some place else, there needs to be a compelling alternative.

Fresh pineapple is a fairly odd thing to have in the dead of winter. December is not pineapple season. I have some pineapple in my fridge but it's in those syrup fruit cups. That, or canned pineapple is most commonly eaten, aside from people who live in areas where it is grown. I don't think I've ever seen freshly cut pineapple aside from a fruit salad. My point being that it's not a common fruit snack most people would have: apples, bananas, pears, melons, oranges? Yes. I'm assuming someone in the Ramsey house liked it and that's why it was there, but my point is also that fresh cut pineapple is not a common party food. If JonBenet had eaten a sugar cookie, it would be easily believable that she grabbed something at the Whites' party. That's a staple of most Christmas parties, and no sugar cookies had been left out in the Ramsey home. But freshly cut pineapple, by itself, not in a fruit salad? A fairly odd thing we're supposed to believe the Whites also had, by coincidence, and ignore the fact that it was in plain view in the Ramsey home?

 

[LaMer]

1996-12-25 (--) John Ramsey told French they arrived home at
Camper reads on that same page 9 about getting ready for White party, John says* "JonBenet put on her outfit, with her black boots, which zipped up the front and had a bit of animal print trim along the top. JonBenet loved to dress up and Burke could care less." ===== Camper asks, 'Was this real animal trim that might have been the unidentified
beaver hair OR OR was it just phony animal looking trim?** I am guessing that it was the real animal hair, would PR have settled for phony non animal trim, or that it really really was the same as Patsy's own personal Christmas animal hair trimmed boots?

Camper don't know, when I read this segment about the 'animal print', no alarms went off. Being it was stated 'print', and I do remember seeing a lot of boots for children in the stores, which were just that, 'animal print' as in being made from material.

I was reading ST's book, again this week, and IIRC, Patsy had a fur coat and also her fur boots were mentioned, but the BPD was unable to obtain a search warrant from the DA's office, to collect them for examination.

Someone please scorrect me, I am recalling this incorrectly.

 

[UKGuy]

Fresh pineapple is a fairly odd thing to have in the dead of winter. December is not pineapple season. I have some pineapple in my fridge but it's in those syrup fruit cups. That, or canned pineapple is most commonly eaten, aside from people who live in areas where it is grown. I don't think I've ever seen freshly cut pineapple aside from a fruit salad. My point being that it's not a common fruit snack most people would have: apples, bananas, pears, melons, oranges? Yes. I'm assuming someone in the Ramsey house liked it and that's why it was there, but my point is also that fresh cut pineapple is not a common party food. If JonBenet had eaten a sugar cookie, it would be easily believable that she grabbed something at the Whites' party. That's a staple of most Christmas parties, and no sugar cookies had been left out in the Ramsey home. But freshly cut pineapple, by itself, not in a fruit salad? A fairly odd thing we're supposed to believe the Whites also had, by coincidence, and ignore the fact that it was in plain view in the Ramsey home?

K. Taylor,

Would it be ok for the pineapple to be left in the bowl, and put back in the fridge, for reuse another day?

So its difficult to escape the notion that the pineapple was a special treat for JonBenet, it was one of her favorite foods?

Whats curious about the bowl is there is no mention of JonBenet's fingerprints either on the bowl or the serving spoon.

With your mention of fruit salad I wonder what the other Ramseys ate?

imo someone else served JonBenet the pineapple, and the fact that the porcelain bowl was forgotten about, suggests the pineapple snack was a domestic snack, but that the pineapple may have been consumed elsewhere?


.

 

[Camper]

Pineapple is naturally SWEET, and when you cut one, and do not wash your hands, your hands become sticky.

It was said that there was a small piece of paper stuck to JonBenet's hand, in the list of things found on her body.

When YOU were six, did you look for a spoon to eat fruit in a BIGGER common bowl, maybe yes, maybe no, IF IF the bowl was sitting there for God and all present in the kitchen?

OTOH, WHO used the BIG SPOON?

Check nutrition sites online or in your local vitamin store, and the Time of digestion charts show Pineapple digests typically in two hours.

Fresh pineapple has living enzymes in it, so digestion is much faster.

.

 

[PagingDrDetect]

It's not a big bowl or a big spoon...

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j149/whynut/2006-06-29_schiller12.jpg

Compare the size of the bowl to the glass and box of tissues. Also notice the size of the paper teabag tab and the spoon. It's either a regular teaspoon or regular table spoon. Also, it looks like the spoon was mostly used to cut up the pinapple in chunks... to eat with the fingers perhaps?

 

[Eagle1]

...........................Patsy said she wasn't taking any medication at all during that time. (In one of her police interviews, not sure which one.)

Aha, Trixie, this answers my question (in other threads) re when the zoloft had been started. I'm still wondering if she took it the rest of her life, reason she could appear so unusually relaxed about such a huge blow. JR often took melatonin (?) to sleep well, so after the death he may have been taking some anti-depressant too, for all we know.

 

[Eagle1]

I never heard that before about a small piece of paper sticking to JonBenet's hands, but there was an animal hair, probably from her boots. Too bad the parents didn't notice all this on her hands and use a washcloth if they didn't want to wake her up by carrying her to running water. Or otoh maybe it's lucky for us, because we can surmise she ate the pineapple with her fingers.

Didn't Lou Smit say there was a tupperware bowl up on the dresser or chest of drawers in her room that contained or had contained pineapple?

I wouldn't guess a kid JBR's age would much care for cracked crab, so she'd be hungry. Priscilla said she'd fixed JonBenet a plate of it.

Their going to Pasta Jay's for dinner would have been probably around 4 pm if they left for the Whites' at about 5 or 6. Just before the Barnhills saw the walker coming to the house. If Barnhill had yelled hello across the street or waved to the walker and there was no response, would he have mentioned it? We can assume he didn't do this test to see if it was JAR? (If he did and the walker responded, it doesn't really mean anything. If I were an intruder I'd probably go along with the friendly neighbor too, wouldn't you?)

 

[UKGuy]

It's not a big bowl or a big spoon...

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j149/whynut/2006-06-29_schiller12.jpg

Compare the size of the bowl to the glass and box of tissues. Also notice the size of the paper teabag tab and the spoon. It's either a regular teaspoon or regular table spoon. Also, it looks like the spoon was mostly used to cut up the pinapple in chunks... to eat with the fingers perhaps?

PagingDrDetect,

Possibly, but why not use a knife to do this?

Although it may not be a serving spoon, it may have been used as one, since the size of the spoon end looks too large to fit into JonBenet's mouth, so maybe its a table spoon as you suggest?

Also I now wonder if that bowl was someone elses serving?

e.g. Burke's and assuming he was sipping tea, then I cannot see tea and pineapple going down to well, maybe he just left it there.

Did JonBenet have another bowl with her allotted portion?

I'm making the assumption that what she consumed was more or equal to what is in the bowl in the picture, I cannot see JonBenet just having a chunk or two?


mmmm this pineapple thing is like the size-12's the more you look, the more you see?

edited to add:
Also did Patsy not purchase pre-cut/sliced pineapple from the store, e.g. safeways?



.

 

[angelwngs]

RANDOM Thoughts and Questions....


Was the R's trash (both inside the home trash and outside the home in the 'roll down to the street' larger containers) not examined by the LE and put into evidence? If PR bought the pineapple at Safeway, would there not have been a receipt and labeled, plastic containter which it was purchased? What about the contents of PR's pocketbook? (That is where my receipts stay until I throw them away or file them, depending on what was purchased and why.)

Maybe I've been watching too much CSI, but I thought a person's trash outside the home, was considered public domain (not requiring a warrant) and often revealed important details.

 

[PagingDrDetect]

PagingDrDetect,

Possibly, but why not use a knife to do this?

Although it may not be a serving spoon, it may have been used as one, since the size of the spoon end looks too large to fit into JonBenet's mouth, so maybe its a table spoon as you suggest?

Also I now wonder if that bowl was someone elses serving?

e.g. Burke's and assuming he was sipping tea, then I cannot see tea and pineapple going down to well, maybe he just left it there.

Did JonBenet have another bowl with her allotted portion?

I'm making the assumption that what she consumed was more or equal to what is in the bowl in the picture, I cannot see JonBenet just having a chunk or two?


mmmm this pineapple thing is like the size-12's the more you look, the more you see?

edited to add:
Also did Patsy not purchase pre-cut/sliced pineapple from the store, e.g. safeways?

Well now, one could use a knife, but I recall when I was a kid my mom would use a spoon to cut something soft like that so as not to have a sharp object around me... heh heh. At that age, it would not have been wise to have a sharp object around me with any of my brothers in the vacinity.

Seriously though, often with young children you wouldn't trust with a sharp object one would use the edge of the spoon to cut with and then the kid can scoop up chunks of the food with the spoon or the fingers as they please.

If Patsy's market is anything like mine, they take the rind off and core the pineapple and you can either have it sliced into rings or not... never seen a store that cuts it any further than into rings (I think most people prefer it in rings to do decorative things with like make a pineapple upsidedown cake... yuuuuuuummy!... or hang on a ham).

The whole pinapple thing is a mystery. Apparently there was only one bowl of it, the bowl had both Patsy's and Burke's fingerprints on it (but not JBR's) and the glass with the spent teabag in it had Burke's fingerprints on it. No prints of JBR's on anything there, but the pineapple was found in her stomach, so it got there one way or another.

Oddly enough, Patsy denied ever seeing the bowl before and denied she owned it (yet her fingerprints were on it). She didn't seem to recognize the box of tissues either. That same bowl was found in photos at their gingerbread house making party on the 23rd with something other than pineapple in it... something white that might be coconut or marshmallows...

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j149/whynut/1996-12-23_party1.jpg

See it there on the table? Here's a closer photo of it...

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j149/whynut/1996-12-23_party2.jpg

Funny about the glass with the teabag... there doesn't seem to be much in the way of evidence that there was tea in it... at least it doesn't look that way in the photo. How does one drink hot tea out a glass anyway? Could be that glass was there before and was only used as a convenient place to plop the spent teabag after someone made a proper cup of tea. Both Burke and Patsy were tea drinkers, so who knows.

It's a puzzlement. A lot of people going round and round on this in another forum, too.

 

[PagingDrDetect]

Was the R's trash (both inside the home trash and outside the home in the 'roll down to the street' larger containers) not examined by the LE and put into evidence? If PR bought the pineapple at Safeway, would there not have been a receipt and labeled, plastic containter which it was purchased? What about the contents of PR's pocketbook? (That is where my receipts stay until I throw them away or file them, depending on what was purchased and why.)

Maybe I've been watching too much CSI, but I thought a person's trash outside the home, was considered public domain (not requiring a warrant) and often revealed important details.

Actually, no, the warrant has to cover the outside grounds if they want to search that, too... and they did have that listed in the warrant. The outside grounds (what's call the curtilage in the warrant, which basically means the whole of the owned property, or yard) includes their outside garbage cans where ever they have them. The warrant also included all their cars (the Jaguar and the SUV). LE also plowed through the trashcans of the neighbors.

The rest of the pineapple was found in Patsy's fridge.

As far as general law goes, if trashcans are on the sidewalk or street and it's not in a commercial container or locked (or picked up by a private removal company) it's considered fair game... but jurisdictions may vary on that. So, say if your outside trashcans are on your property (like if you kept them at the side of your house or something when it's not time for trash to be collected) it's still your property, but if you put the trashcans out on the sidewalk or street for collection, because the sidewalk and street is public property it's considered that you've reliquished ownership of whatever is actually IN the trashcans.

Funny you bring that up because I was just reading this article a little while ago about these two guys in Colorado (what is WRONG with Colorado???) who went dumpter diving for food in the trash of a food store and they got six months in jail. The owner or the food store protested since it was trash they were after and he didn't care if they took it or not, but the crazy prosecutor threw the book at them anyway. One of the guys is from my hometown, too.

Unbelievable... those two guys get six months in jail for stealing food out of a trashcan that the owner would just as soon they had anyway and that crazy woman that cut off her son's tongue with a hot pair of scissors gets probation! UGH!

 

[angelwngs]

And another thing....
The 'totality of the evidence' is where the majority at WS's seem to be in justification of being an RDI...Right? Ok... Look again at the picture linked in the above post. Look at everything on the table. Look at the positioning of everything on the table. Granted, the pineapple left in the bowl could have been eaten by several family members passing by, but initially, it looks as if the teabag in the glass, the pineapple in the bowl and the kleenex were all placed close together for one person's use. Kleenex would stick horribly to a child's fingers if used after eating pineapple with their fingers. Kleenex is associated with blowing ones nose or wiping tears. WHY are Kleenex on a kitchen table???? (very close to the pineapple and the glass w/ the teabag) Where is the cup used for hot tea or the glass used for cold tea if the glass on the table is assumed to be just a storage vessel for the tea bag? Was a load of dishes in the dishwasher run by well-meaning friends cleaning the kitchen on the 26th? They sprayed down the kitchen counter and cleaned it. What else did they do in the kitchen?

On the 26th, did PR "LOOK" as if she had been up all night? Did she "look" as if she had been crying? When one is up all night or has been crying you can tell it... (Even make-up can't disguise it.)

 

[angelwngs]

PDD said, "The rest of the pineapple was found in Patsy's fridge."

~~~~

I didn't know that!

~~~~

During the making of the gingerbread houses. PR said that a friend brought something.. for the children to use in the making of the gingerbread houses. Does anyone remember what she brought??

Is it possible that this odd bowl that PR 'doesn't remember' as being hers was brought as a vessel to be used for whatever the freind brought and that is why other friends remember it as having been seen in PR's house before?

My husband and two grown sons often put things into our refigerator that I did not purchase at the grocery store. Friends also bring containers of food and forget to take their containers home with them. Still, no matter how large a party at our home, I always know every plate, bowl, glass, cup, or pot and pan which is mine. (And I am a collector of things... tons of things! I have 10 sets of china and oodles of odd dishes and plates, but I KNOW which ones are mine. I have a cleaning person in my home, which adds to the mix of who put what where, but I can always determine who put what where and why.)

It just doesn't make sense to me that PR did not know when that bowl entered her home and why. Unless, the kleenex, the teabag in the glass and the bowl of pineapple and spoon were placed on the table after she went to bed or on the morning of the 26th by someone who is not being honest or not talking, PR's statements do not ring true, IMO.

 

[Love_Mama]

Here is some of the word that were stated by the Ramsey's in their '97 interviews, IMO they were both on medication that should not have been mixed with alcohol..


http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/1997BPD-John-Interview-Complete.htm

TT: How did you sleep Christmas night?

JR: I took a Melatonin tablet because I wanted to get to sleep fast because we had to get up early, and I slept through the night.

TT: Now is that Melatonin an over the counter or prescription drug?

JR: Over the counter.

TT: That you are (inaudible). . . are you taking any other medications right now?

JR: I have been on Paxel, and Quanopin, which are both prescription anti-depressants.

TT: Okay, and the second one is?

JR: Quanopin.

TT: OK. I’m not familiar with that one.

JR: It like, kind of like Adavan, I’m not an expert but . . .

TT: . . . Okay. How much Paxel where you taking?

JR: Uh, well one tablet a night, I don’t know how, but I can get the prescription from (inaudible) the size of it, whatever it is.

TT: Is it the same prescription that Patsy is on or. . .

JR: Basically, yeah, probably exactly the same thing.

TT: And the second medication, you take that once a night?

JR: Right.



http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/1997BPD-Patsy-Interview-Complete.htm


TT: Okay. Patsy, I need to go through a couple of things here. What medications are you on right now? Are you still on Paxel?

PR: I’m on Paxel, um hum.

TT: How often do you take that?

PR: In the evenings (inaudible) once a day.

TT: Just a bedtime?

PR: Um hum.

TT: And, what’s the dose on that?

PR: 30 milligrams.

TT: And, are you taking anything else right now?

PR: I just started Monday taking something for this sinus infection. I know your going to ask me the name of it.


PR: No. I don’t drink alcohol.

TT: Okay. Uh, do you drink alcohol at all?

PR: No. Not since I’ve been on the Paxel at all.

TT: Okay. When did you start the Paxel?

PR: Uh, I don’t know. February maybe.

TT: Okay. Beg…towards the beginning or the end of February?

PR: I can’t remember exactly.

TT: Okay. And the Adavan, did you start that about the same time?

TT: Okay. So give me kind of a step by step, get to the Whites 5:30, 6:00, 6:30 whatever, what time did you have dinner that night? What did you do before dinner after dinner?

PR: Well, we had um, I think we had cocktails, kind of, she had some cracked crab left over from their Christmas even dinner and we sampled some of that and I remember she kind of, for some reason, made a little plate for JonBenet or I remember her making a special plate for JonBenet for some reason so she would have some crab. . .

OMG..........first Patsy say's she doesn't drink and then a few questions later say's 'Well, we had um, I think we had cocktails, kind of"
what the heck does that mean? I don't think she meant "Shirly Temples" !!!
A cocktail to me is something with booze in it!
Seems that Patsy.....with all of her 'Um's".......is justing trying to come up with the right answer!

xxxxxxxxxxo
mama

 

[Camper]

I never heard that before about a small piece of paper sticking to JonBenet's hands, but there was an animal hair, probably from her boots. Too bad the parents didn't notice all this on her hands and use a washcloth if they didn't want to wake her up by carrying her to running water. Or otoh maybe it's lucky for us, because we can surmise she ate the pineapple with her fingers.

--->>>Eagle I read about the paper on the hand on a thread the other day that listed all stuff that was found on JonBenet's body. I don't remember which thread it was.

Angelwings said, "Kleenex would stick horribly to a child's fingers if used after eating pineapple with their fingers."

So all told it looks as IF the setting was prepared for someone in particular.

.

 

[Toltec]

Steve Thomas was asked on CN2000 Q&A if the trash cans in the neighborhood were checked. He said yes.

The pic looks to me to be a serving spoon. I did not know that there was any pineapple left in the fridge because it looks to me to be alot of pineapple in that bowl. At least too much for a six-year-old to eat without getting a belly-ache or else diarrhea.

If JonBenet ate some pineapple...then I hope there would have been residue around her lips or her fingers that were tested?

 

[UKGuy]

Well now, one could use a knife, but I recall when I was a kid my mom would use a spoon to cut something soft like that so as not to have a sharp object around me... heh heh. At that age, it would not have been wise to have a sharp object around me with any of my brothers in the vacinity.

Seriously though, often with young children you wouldn't trust with a sharp object one would use the edge of the spoon to cut with and then the kid can scoop up chunks of the food with the spoon or the fingers as they please.

If Patsy's market is anything like mine, they take the rind off and core the pineapple and you can either have it sliced into rings or not... never seen a store that cuts it any further than into rings (I think most people prefer it in rings to do decorative things with like make a pineapple upsidedown cake... yuuuuuuummy!... or hang on a ham).

The whole pinapple thing is a mystery. Apparently there was only one bowl of it, the bowl had both Patsy's and Burke's fingerprints on it (but not JBR's) and the glass with the spent teabag in it had Burke's fingerprints on it. No prints of JBR's on anything there, but the pineapple was found in her stomach, so it got there one way or another.

Oddly enough, Patsy denied ever seeing the bowl before and denied she owned it (yet her fingerprints were on it). She didn't seem to recognize the box of tissues either. That same bowl was found in photos at their gingerbread house making party on the 23rd with something other than pineapple in it... something white that might be coconut or marshmallows...

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j149/whynut/1996-12-23_party1.jpg

See it there on the table? Here's a closer photo of it...

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j149/whynut/1996-12-23_party2.jpg

Funny about the glass with the teabag... there doesn't seem to be much in the way of evidence that there was tea in it... at least it doesn't look that way in the photo. How does one drink hot tea out a glass anyway? Could be that glass was there before and was only used as a convenient place to plop the spent teabag after someone made a proper cup of tea. Both Burke and Patsy were tea drinkers, so who knows.

It's a puzzlement. A lot of people going round and round on this in another forum, too.

PagingDrDetect,

Lets assume the Ramsey's are involved, so they do all this staging, cleanup lots of evidence, then make the 911 call, the rest we know about.

But they missed the pineapple bowl and the tea glass etc, why did they do that?

1.) They plain forgot?

2.) These items played no part in her death?

So lets assume 2. followed by 1. So the tea-glass as you suggest may just be an incidental item, a receptacle for the teabag, no more? The pineapple is simply the remains from a snacking session, that may have taken place anywhere else in the house?

I'll assume 2. explicitly since if the pineapple was a prelude to JonBenet's death you can bet any evidence of it would have been removed, e.g. flashlight.

My guess is JonBenet, after returning home, and not being placed in bed, obviously ate some pineapple, possibly Burke had a drink of tea, but then once this domestic snack was over each went their separate way.

To the residents the pineapple snacking was unremarkable and given what was to transpire it possibly faded from memory quickly?

So rather than assume the pineapple has some hidden implications, for the residents it was unremarkable to the extent it never figured in their evidence purging. Patsy faced with the contradiction of JonBenet being awake after she allegedly placed her in bed asleep, simply denies all knowledge!




.

 

[icedtea4me]

Their going to Pasta Jay's for dinner would have been probably around 4 pm if they left for the Whites' at about 5 or 6.

Okay, let's try this once again...

The Ramseys attended a late afternoon Christmas Eve church service on 12/24. Afterwards, they went to view the giant lit-up Christmas star. They dined at Pasta Jay's and then went home. They went over to the Whites' home for Christmas dinner around 4:30 p.m. on 12/25.