Bosma Murder Trial 05.12.16 - Day 48

[Ontario Mom]

But for a guy who doesn't drive and spends a lot of time on foot or a bike as mode of transportation, I cant see him not knowing where he went. He grew up there did he not? I can tell you every park and path where I grew up. I spent my entire summers with friends outside until street lights came on. It just seems very wishy washy to me.

It does sound like a load of horsesnot that he "doesn't remember" where he buried the gun. But then I have to wonder about his state of mind, assuming he actually did pedal like a mad paper-boy with gun and garden spade in his little back pack, out into the middle of the woods somewhere. Was he baked like a Tim Horton's nasty hard cookie? Was he scared? Did he get lost? All are entirely possible if he was out of his mind with either panic or just stoned.

I've never really believed he buried the gun though. Nor do I see what good it would do to produce it. Firearms experts could match the shell to the gun but that wouldn't prove that was the gun used on Tim Bosma.

 

[canadiangirl]

<modsnip>

I'm on the fence with MS. Part of me wants to believe no matter what, they are both lying pieces of **** and deserve to rot in prison for murdering an innocent man.

On the other hand from what we've heard DM does what DM wants. Takes what he wants. In his mind he's above everyone else. Controls them with empty promises and IMO preys on the weak. I consider all his minions weak. MS. CN. AM. SS. MH. all have no backbone.
He takes no responsibility for his actions. And even spends his days plotting how to frame his partner in crime.

So for me at this point, yes MS has a story with some holes. But is that enough to convict him with first degree murder without a reasonable doubt?

A few days ago I wanted both to go down equally. Throw away the key.
Now I'm just not sure and hope the coming days shed more light.

I'd say for that reason alone MS testifying was a good idea for him. I'm pretty sure between 14 people, some are on the fence tonight. I wish them luck in the coming days

 

[Typhoo1961]

Wow! She's had a few inconsistent statements. No wonder people are confused with things if they are listening and following her.

Just had a listen myself and she has so much wrong. One thing she said that caught my attention was that the direction of where the bullet that killed TB had come from was not known because the front windshield of the truck had been removed by SS. Now if you go back and look at Arthur Jenning's picture of the truck the front windshield is clearly intact. Very inconsistent report IMO all the way through.

 

[Wollander77]

<modsnip> MS could be telling the truth. But in my mind, there's strong likelihood that he didn't. Prior to his testifying in court, there were people here and elsewhere, and possibly some in the jury, who sympathized with MS and his association with an alleged psychopath - as was their prerogative to feel this way. In that light, I don't know if MS took that great of a risk to speak in public his version of the "incident" on May 6, which conveniently transferred all blame and responsibility for the killing and disposing of TB onto DM's shoulders. MOO.

Either way, we'll see how MS holds up in court on Monday. Who knows, my interpretation of the available evidence might be totally off-base (I've read TD wrong since MS ended up on the stand). I'm curious to see how RP and Tony Leitch will lay out their respective strategies against MS. SC tweeted that the latter's ability to make legal arguments was a "beautiful thing," so hopefully we'll get to see more of that brand of eloquence when the Crown examines MS. Anyhow, JMO.

 

[don_quixote]

I think I have an explanation why MS didn't disclose where the gun is. I was thinking why I didn't consider linking the gun to the crime via the ejected casing and figured because I never thought of it as a reliable way to reject the match. It is relatively easy to manipulate a gun so that a casing ejected from that gun prior to the manipulation will not be linked to it by ballistics experts. The manipulation would take, perhaps, 30 minutes.

Now, MS does not know if DM did just that. Imagine cops find the gun with DM's fingerprints, compare to the casing and say "sorry, it doesn't match". So which gun did the casing come from? Then DM immediately has a story that it was actually "treacherous Mark" who used HIS OWN same gun to kill Tim Bosma and is now framing DM. DM then retells MS's story but flips the characters. MS was in the RAM and DM was in the Yukon, etc. That's why MS said that he f-d up, that why DM said that he's cleaning Mark's mess. MS is a drug addict, intimidating guy, gf beater, etc. DM is calm, likable, etc. And the physical evidence is on his side: the casing found in RAM does NOT match to DM's gun.

So MS's choices are
1. Provide the gun location and that will add to the credibility but there is a chance that it's going to cause some serious issues
2. Have his credibility suffer but not take any chances with the gun that was possibly tempered with

Or may be they changed on the way and MS really was in the RAM and DM in the Yukon at the time of shooting... I'm afraid we'll never know for sure.

 

[canadiangirl]

<modsnip> MS could be telling the truth. But in my mind, there's strong likelihood that he didn't. Prior to his testifying in court, there were people here and elsewhere, and possibly some in the jury, who sympathized with MS and his association with an alleged psychopath - as was their prerogative to feel this way. In that light, I don't know if MS took that great of a risk to speak in public his version of the "incident" on May 6, which conveniently transferred all blame and responsibility for the killing and disposing of TB onto DM's shoulders. MOO.

Either way, we'll see how MS holds up in court on Monday. Who knows, my interpretation of the available evidence might be totally off-base (I've read TD wrong since MS ended up on the stand). I'm curious to see how RP and Tony Leitch will lay out their respective strategies against MS. SC tweeted that the latter's ability to make legal arguments was a "beautiful thing," so hopefully we'll get to see more of that brand of eloquence when the Crown examines MS. Anyhow, JMO.

Until I hear more I'm not convinced he isn't just trying to save himself. When people point out the "story fits the evidence" well IMO of course it does. I'm not sure why some people are ignoring the holes at this point. MS has been in court since day 1. Listening to everything. Watching the evidence. To me it's easy to come up with a plausible story to cause just enough reasonable doubt in a jurors mind for him to escape a first degree murder charge. MS doesn't have to convince All the people. Just one. 14 people. That's pretty good odds. JMO

 

[RandomName479]

<modsnip> MS could be telling the truth. But in my mind, there's strong likelihood that he didn't. Prior to his testifying in court, there were people here and elsewhere, and possibly some in the jury, who sympathized with MS and his association with an alleged psychopath - as was their prerogative to feel this way. In that light, I don't know if MS took that great of a risk to speak in public his version of the "incident" on May 6, which conveniently transferred all blame and responsibility for the killing and disposing of TB onto DM's shoulders. MOO.

Either way, we'll see how MS holds up in court on Monday. Who knows, my interpretation of the available evidence might be totally off-base (I've read TD wrong since MS ended up on the stand). I'm curious to see how RP and Tony Leitch will lay out their respective strategies against MS. SC tweeted that the latter's ability to make legal arguments was a "beautiful thing," so hopefully we'll get to see more of that brand of eloquence when the Crown examines MS. Anyhow, JMO.

I appreciate your point of view....and I don't think you are by any means the only one who sees MS as guilty of 1st degree (they are just more silent tonight.....there are many regular and respected posters who feel the way you do). What I hope is that after all the evidence has been presented and the defence has rested it's case that it will be easy to decide what MS is guilty of. For me, as it stands, I don't know what to believe.....MOO

 

[Melzack]

I don't believe that DM left his keys and his dog in the Yukon and MS didn't know that. There was a plan when they got to the house and it was to steal the truck at gunpoint. I think Tim began to panick and DM pulled the gun on him. MS said that Tim's head was on the dash, so I assume he wasn't wearing a seatbelt because wouldn't he just stay slumped over on the seat? Maybe he was trying to escape out the door. It Makes me wonder... I do believe MS when he says that DM was back to normal a few days later. PSYCHO!

 

[deugirtni]

It's consistent with his testimony of trying to act normal and trying not to tell MM what he didn't have to. Shocked and afraid can be an internal experience, until something externalizes it like a sudden fear of discovery and arrest. It's about witness memory and perception as well. Witnesses may have been more attuned to MS once they became actively aware of trouble brewing.

Yes, he may have been feeling whatever weird and uncomfortable feelings he was feeling about having seen his friend in the condition he described (lunatic), and feeling shocked about what his friend had done, but MS said he didn't feel guilty.. I took that to mean that he didn't feel that he was guilty of the crime of murder (as opposed to that he didn't have any kind of guilty conscience about the dead man); he was believing that the whole murder part was all DM's doing, he wasn't even there for that part, etc etc.. until he supposedly received the item which DM had left with MH, which AM said that DM would have wanted him to have... which made him clue in, perhaps for the very first time, that DM's intention was not only to get away with his crime, but actually to put the blame on HIM. Up until that point, he very well could have been thinking that it was DM's deal, and that DM would find a way out for himself and take care of it for himself, and even if not, the most he'd be on the hook for would be AATF. And then *BOOM*, he sees that not only didn't DM dispose of the murder weapon, but it is now in HIS possession (MS's). That could tend to be a pretty scary moment, and from then on, wondering what was going on inside of this lunatic's mind. Kind of could make sense? jmo

 

[mimimic]

I wonder if the lawyers in this case are reading this website each day to see what public's perception is after a day's testimony.

Well I thought there would be some lengthy discussions on why it ended so abruptly.

 

[Wondergirl]

Of course there is a lot of new evidence. Not that all are necessarily truthful and credible. But they will be considered. Among them are

1. That MS was not planning a homicide
2. That there was no 3rd person
3. That no restraints were applied to the victim at least until after they picked up the Yukon (that may help MS avoid 1st degree and get AATF)
4. That DM left the keys in Yukon (could indicate that DM planned this scenario)
5. That there was at least one shot fired in the truck (that hit the window)
6. That DM was in the truck when the shooting happened
7. That Tim Bosma died or was severely injured during the time he was in the truck with DM
8. That DM was in possession of a handgun soon after the shooting
9. That ultimately Tim Bosma died at their hands.
10. That DM owned guns in general and Walther PPK in particular
11. That it was DM who was operating the incinerator (and this is extremely important, as it completes the possible causes of death, IMO)
12. That MS and DM did dispose of some evidence

And there is more to come, such as,
a. Did MS help to clean out the incinerator and what happened to the ashes
b. What was the tape for
c. What is "the orange guy"
d. What was the "sausage evidence" about
e. What happened to Tim Bosma's wallet and documents
f. Why was there blood on the trailer walls
g. Why was there blood in the truck bed
h. Specifics of the wound that he may have seen
i. Details of conversations with Tim Bosma
etc

Good post - thanks.

 

[canadiangirl]

I don't believe that DM left his keys and his dog in the Yukon and MS didn't know that. There was a plan when they got to the house and it was to steal the truck at gunpoint. I think Tim began to panick and DM pulled the gun on him. MS said that Tim's head was on the dash, so I assume he wasn't wearing a seatbelt because wouldn't he just stay slumped over on the seat? Maybe he was trying to escape out the door. It Makes me wonder... I do believe MS when he says that DM was back to normal a few days later. PSYCHO!

I'm just hoping the "psycho" part never comes out in court. So many of us have picked up on that.

All comments are JMO unless stated otherwise

 

[hopingforjustice]

So based on the evidence so far, if anyone was sitting on the Jury and only knew what the Jury has been allowed to hear, would you be able to find DM and MS guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt" of 1st degree murder? JFMOC (Just for my own curiosity!)

So hard to answer that question as there is so much that we "know" that hasn't been brought up or doesn't apply to "this" case, but I think I would find DM guilty hands down, and as for MS...def guilty but I just don't know if it is 1st degree ..I want to hear the cross and how he handles it to decide on that.

 

[Stirner]

I am terrible with directions and am always checking for the CN tower to get my bearings.

I have completely panicked when going off trail in Algonquin Park. (There were lots of bearings there - not as big as CN tower - but a lake for example). In my panic, I didn't pay attention.

Yeah but you were just nonchalantly strolling through the woods, not going there to bury a gun that you previously tried to sell to get money for a lawyer. Since MS would still want to sell the gun if he found a buyer, he would certainly remember where he put it in case he wanted to dig it up and sell it, or just dig it up to move it. If I were doing it, not only would I remember the general area, I would leave markers around to remind me...

 

[ArianeEmory]

I wonder if the lawyers in this case are reading this website each day to see what public's perception is after a day's testimony.

If they're not, they're fools.

But, and this goes to the concerns of people who feel MS is getting off too easy in these discussions, remember we're *not* the jury. I know some folks have sat in some days, but for the most part we are not going through what they're going through, seeing the defendants and the Bosmas every day, getting much more access the data/evidence, etc. I have to believe that counterbalances the things they (ostensibly) don't know, such as the LB charge.

Here, I'm just spitballing, and defense attorneys aside, I definitely believe the *Bosmas* are far too wise to come read WS. But if I were on the jury, I can assure you I would not be advocating for MS's exoneration without more clarity than I currently have.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I think it would be nice to have some major changes in my life, so I was thinking of asking Alex Pierson.

Let me know when its a deal. I'll live blog it, and get all the major details (as well as the spelling of your name) wrong. You're about to have a fabulous adventure. It's going to be awesome.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Calling it a night. Maybe a weekend as well. Really looking forward to the cross next week to see how DM's defense is going to respond to all MS's has shared.

 

[mimimic]

Well I thought there would be some lengthy discussions on why it ended so abruptly.

:seeya:

 

[mimimic]

:seeya:

Regarding the hour long Thursday testimony ending. Almost seemed by both the Judge and TD.

 

[drhart905]

Are there any links to any interviews on the radio today? I found the interview on Monday with Alex Pierson on the Hamilton local station interesting.