Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #13

[andreww]

IMO you said it right there. First time offender held in jail for 4 months. For what reason? They don't just hold punks without reason AND she lawyered up. Surely her lawyer would have got her out being she's a first time offender and all. There's way more to this JMO

Sure you could be right. Remember, we've heard nothing about the text records going back to LBs murder. If there is evidence that CN knew exactly what the eliminator was for, that would put different spin on moving the incinerator in the middle of the night wouldn't it? CN also made a comment about LE hounding people that "they thought" were her friends. Makes me wonder if she confided in someone?

 

[EspressoBean]

Thats what I mean, she admits "mission" could mean illegal activities like buying drugs. Tell me what other illegal missions she was involved in that would give her a better frame of reference?

I am lost as to what you are asking and where you are going with this. Picking up pot for them to smoke is not going to ring any huge bells that she was involved in more serious criminal activity.

 

[EspressoBean]

Sure you could be right. Remember, we've heard nothing about the text records going back to LBs murder. If there is evidence that CN knew exactly what the eliminator was for, that would put different spin on moving the incinerator in the middle of the night wouldn't it? CN also made a comment about LE hounding people that "they thought" were her friends. Makes me wonder if she confided in someone?

She testified that she had told a couple of friends and mother about the letters.
I think she referenced that media and LE were "harassing" people, even those that were not close friends. LE may not have been hounding them at all. The media was desperate for a story. They were using every avenue.

 

[Abitcountry]

IMO you said it right there. First time offender held in jail for 4 months. For what reason? They don't just hold punks without reason AND she lawyered up. Surely her lawyer would have got her out being she's a first time offender and all. There's way more to this JMO

Quite sometime ago there was an expression circulating that went something like this---'authorities generally don't make a habit of arresting cooperative witnesses'.... this was the answer that was given when an enquiry was made into the reason for CN's cooperation. Nothing further was said.

 

[andreww]

I am lost as to what you are asking and where you are going with this. Picking up pot for them to smoke is not going to ring any huge bells that she was involved in more serious criminal activity.

What I'm saying is that it has been shown that Millard used the term "Mission" to refer to both legal and illegal activities, so its not unbelievable that she didn't automatically know that when he spoke about "Missions", he was specifically referring to illegal activities.

 

[andreww]

Quite sometime ago there was an expression circulating that went something like this---'authorities generally don't make a habit of arresting cooperative witnesses'.... this was the answer that was given when an enquiry was made into the reason for CN's cooperation. Nothing further was said.

LE has a lot of pull when it comes to handle things. Cooperative people get treated well, uncooperative people are going to find life a whole lot tougher.

 

[EspressoBean]

The letters were found after the fact, what led the police to the door prior to? There's got to be evidence not pertaining to the letters that will be brought up at her trial, no??

Other than all the phone/computer stuff that was found first.. obviously.. The letters are just the nail in the coffin.. There's more than enough against her..

I was responding to a question regarding the other "missions" that AM and MH had testified about that were involving the lookouts and thefts. It was not referring to the crime they are on trial for right now.

 

[EspressoBean]

What I'm saying is that it has been shown that Millard used the term "Mission" to refer to both legal and illegal activities, so its not unbelievable that she didn't automatically know that when he spoke about "Missions", he was specifically referring to illegal activities.

I don't know we have seen much shown of "mission" being used for much outside of criminal activities. Only CN seems to claim that it meant something else. Maybe I've missed something if you can give a source that has shown this.
I can't say what she might "automatically" believe but her testimony has said that the only activity she would have ever thought "missions" to refer to, was picking up pot.

 

[EspressoBean]

Quite sometime ago there was an expression circulating that went something like this---'authorities generally don't make a habit of arresting cooperative witnesses'.... this was the answer that was given when an enquiry was made into the reason for CN's cooperation. Nothing further was said.

I thought that was the expression circulating in reference to the questions regarding whether MM was arrested or detained. I'm not sure how it applies to CN. She wasn't arrested as a witness but she was arrested because she was charged for a crime.
I don't know that I follow....

 

[don_quixote]

The day she was arrested was the day they found the letters. Her charge, although serious, does not meet the criteria for holding a first time offender for 4 months IMO. Was she a threat to the public? No. Was she a flight risk? No. She was simply an uncooperative punk that was really being a thorn in the side of LE, so she sat in jail.

At the bail hearing the prosecution can't say "She doesn't want to cooperate, let's keep her in the cell for a few months and see if she smartens up". Bail is right there in the Charter of Rights. Of course she was a flight risk. She probably has dual citizenship, she speaks another language. Probably some family back in Ukraine. It's not unthinkable that she'll try to escape such a serious charge. Another reason to keep her is that she may try to influence the witnesses. She even admitted that she considered that, even if for a minute.

 

[don_quixote]

The letters were found after the fact, what led the police to the door prior to? There's got to be evidence not pertaining to the letters that will be brought up at her trial, no??

Other than all the phone/computer stuff that was found first.. obviously.. The letters are just the nail in the coffin.. There's more than enough against her..

My theory was initially that she was bargaining with the prosecution for immunity and told them that she has more than just testimony. Now I'm thinking that they found one of the letters that DM was writing and didn't send. Remember he says that they search him once in a while? Also, transfer from cell to cell. They gotta be checking each time that he doesn't take with him anything illegal. Prison economy, as DM puts it.

That would also explain why he admitted that those letters they found at Noudga are his. But the arguments now are, probably, that he's not gonna admit that what they found on him was a letter. He's making a similar claim that it's his fantasies. Then to prove to jury that it WAS an unsent letter to Noudga, they would probably invite the jail guard that found the letter (when did he find it and how, e.g. random search) and may be another prison worker who'd say that this happened, say, 2 hrs before DM had a scheduled visit from MB.

And then in that letter he tells CN to get rid of the stereo, or something. Based on this cops could get a search warrant. We don't know the date when she put that "note" about the "stereo". May be that was the last letter that she never received. I'm a bit incoherent but I hope I managed to convey the sequence of events that I have in mind.

 

[ezuke]

I asked this the other day, but never got an answer. Hopefully someone (ABro etc.) with answers will see this and clear up some confusion for me.

When CN was testifying earlier this week she stated that DM sung "Wonderwall" to her when MB passed her the phone. In DM's letters he referred to speaking to her on the payphone and the fact that she was likely surveilled doing so. Is this just misspeaking on his part? How would he be able to call them collect on a pay phone? Did he get a cell phone smuggled in with the letters?

This is some shady shiiii

 

[caseyjonesin905]

I asked this the other day, but never got an answer. Hopefully someone (ABro etc.) with answers will see this and clear up some confusion for me.

When CN was testifying earlier this week she stated that DM sung "Wonderwall" to her when MB passed her the phone. In DM's letters he referred to speaking to her on the payphone and the fact that she was likely surveilled doing so. Is this just misspeaking on his part? How would he be able to call them collect on a pay phone? Did he get a cell phone smuggled in with the letters?

This is some shady shiiii

I think he mentioned something along the lines of "the thought of you actually being able to hear me".. I don't recall anything being said in the letters presented that there was a conversation.

 

[ezuke]

I'll find it, but the thought of her being able to hear him is bc he sang to her (or spoke to her, which I find more likely with her being quiet on the other end) on the phone after his mom passed CN the telephone. Then DM mentions calling her/her mom on a pay phone.

I forgot to respond with caseyjonesin905's quote. Sorry!

 

[EspressoBean]

I asked this the other day, but never got an answer. Hopefully someone (ABro etc.) with answers will see this and clear up some confusion for me.

When CN was testifying earlier this week she stated that DM sung "Wonderwall" to her when MB passed her the phone. In DM's letters he referred to speaking to her on the payphone and the fact that she was likely surveilled doing so. Is this just misspeaking on his part? How would he be able to call them collect on a pay phone? Did he get a cell phone smuggled in with the letters?

This is some shady shiiii

The information regarding how the call came to be, has not been clear.
CN testified that MB phoned DM that night from a payphone.
I don't know of there being able to have arranged calls to jail, so my assumption would be that DM somehow had access to a cell phone. There are smuggled cell phones in jail. The details about this call have not been given. If DM takes the stand, he may be asked about this but CN claimed that she did not know the details of how the phone call was made so there wasn't much more that could be asked of her about it.

 

[caseyjonesin905]

I'll find it, but the thought of her being able to hear him is bc he sang to her (or spoke to her, which I find more likely with her being quiet on the other end) on the phone after his mom passed CN the telephone. Then DM mentions calling her/her mom on a pay phone.

I'd have to strongly disagree there - I beleive the only phone calls that are not monitored are lawyer/client.. Anything else would be fair game.. I doubt he'd risk it.. Since his mother visited alot, she likely said she'd call the next time they went out to dinner or something..
What i didn't realize was that you could call in to prision to talk to someone?? lol
Must be a reason for them to go to THAT restaurant every time.. other than it being close to CN's house.. Maybe if they tossed DM's cell, they'd find the phone number of the phone booth?? Can you still call a phone booth????

 

[CJPRINCESS]

No. They will have to PROVE CN had knowledge that there was a truck in the trailer OR that she knew the gun was in the toolbox, OR that the Eliminator was used to incinerate TB, OR that she knew that the video recorder was something other than a stereo. I don't really think the print wiping has much to do with it, more just her actions on May 9th.

Since it was only DM and MS on trial here, is it not possible that most damning evidence on CN has been kept for her case? I'm thinking some of these blacked out portions of letters have more. Can the phone records/texts of her "Stolen" phone be pulled. In a murder case, do they/LE need the actual phone or can they get this info right from provider? In reporters clips they say "CN was going to help DM escape" I'm sure there is proof there but we won't know till November. The glove with her and TB'S DNA, we heard about it but not much detail given. The hose, again, mentioned an no details.

IMO, things were left out pertaining to CN's participation to use against her at her own trial. Id think the Crown has hard proof or there would be no case against her at all.

 

[Abitcountry]

The letters were found after the fact, what led the police to the door prior to? There's got to be evidence not pertaining to the letters that will be brought up at her trial, no??

Other than all the phone/computer stuff that was found first.. obviously.. The letters are just the nail in the coffin.. There's more than enough against her..

I was thinking along these same lines recently as well....
CN seemed to fade into the woodwork for 11 months and then all of a sudden there's a warrant and police were searching the detached garage at her parents' home and her bedroom---they were specfically looking for the DVR and happened upon the letters and notes as well. It came out recently in her cross examination that she had told her parents and a couple of friends that she was corresponding with DM......and I just wondered if finally, one of them felt compelled to do the right thing???

Going forward....
--The cell phone activity that exists in the court exhibits is only a fraction of the communication that was taking place amongst the gang of freaks.....I am wondering if additional cell phone activity will show up in CN's trial.
--CN & DM spent 5-7 nights a week together normally......but the week of May 6-9 they don't even speak or text each other for days.....impossible !!!

As for CN personally, I believe that she is an excellent student...committing all of her mental energy and intellect to her studies and academic goals....and nothing else.
As for the rest of her life, she is a colossal failure......in her character, her choice of friends, her choice of lovers, her choice of pot and drugs, her choice of extracurricular activities.....she refers to herself as an immigrant after living in Canada for 21 years and she functions as an immigrant with not even the faintest idea of the laws of this land (thank God she still does not drive)....she reasons like a pre-adolescent,behaves like a sullen brat....and is arrogant and offensive to the majority of us in mind,body and spirit.

 

[EspressoBean]

At the bail hearing the prosecution can't say "She doesn't want to cooperate, let's keep her in the cell for a few months and see if she smartens up". Bail is right there in the Charter of Rights. Of course she was a flight risk. She probably has dual citizenship, she speaks another language. Probably some family back in Ukraine. It's not unthinkable that she'll try to escape such a serious charge. Another reason to keep her is that she may try to influence the witnesses. She even admitted that she considered that, even if for a minute.

Jumping off your post, in her notes, she had written, "leave country" which would definitely make her a flight risk. If she wasn't giving information, they weren't going to let her out on bail to leave the country and tamper with witnesses.
I'm guessing after the letters were found, there was further questioning of MH and AM to find out about their contact with her which could hold up her getting out on bail.

 

[ezuke]

I'd have to strongly disagree there - I beleive the only phone calls that are not monitored are lawyer/client.. Anything else would be fair game.. I doubt he'd risk it.. Since his mother visited alot, she likely said she'd call the next time they went out to dinner or something..
What i didn't realize was that you could call in to prision to talk to someone?? lol
Must be a reason for them to go to THAT restaurant every time.. other than it being close to CN's house.. Maybe if they tossed DM's cell, they'd find the phone number of the phone booth?? Can you still call a phone booth????

Found it!
""Medeline called Dellen ... she handed me the receiver and he sang Wonderwall, by Oasis," Noudga says. This was at a pay phone.
by Adam Carter 10:49 AM

Noudga says she doesn't remember what Burns said to her son.
by Adam Carter 10:49 AM

"So he has the opportunity to speak to you in person, and all he does is sing Wonderwall?" Crown Tony Leitch says. "Yes," Noudga responds.
by Adam Carter 10:49 AM

Noudga says this is the only time they had voice contact.
by Adam Carter 10:51 AM "