BREAKING NEWS: New DNA Analysis Suggests Family Should NOT Have Been Cleared

[Ambitioned]

I think she would, with the proper motivation.

For some time now, I've wondered if part of the staging was Patsy trying to give JB a "fitting" send-off. There's a thread somewhere around here under the title "Loved to Death."

I can't discount the PDI theory either.

Two of my friends on FB said something tonight that made me think. "Who wears makeup, jewelry, dresses, and doesn't shed tons of tears when their child is murdered? The killer!" and "I think the little girl told her mother she didn't want to do this any longer and someone lost it. It was never about her. It was all about the mother."

To touch on the head blow and strangulation: If Patsy did it, strangling would be easy especially if JB was having rattles or Cheyne-Stokes. PR was smooth as a cucumber (JR's words) and would do anything and everything to avoid prison. Good heavens, the woman was accustomed to mink and diamonds. An orange jumpsuit just wouldn't do.

 

[Malcolm]

I used to think Patsy accidentally fractured JBR's skull but JBR was strangled an hour later, so how would that fit in? It doesn't. Patsy isn't going to strangle her child to cover up a fractured skull is she?

This is why I firmly believe BR was the culprit - for the head trauma AND the strangulation. It's the only scenario that can fit.

JBR and BR went downstairs, had some pineapple then went down to the basement. BR hit her with something, she fell and BR panicked, dragged her body across the hall to the cellar room, intending to hide her body. Then, for reasons of his own he strangled her fully. "

I think Burke probably panicked after he knocked JBR out with the head blow. He tried to bring her to by shaking her and sticking the train track into her face and back but got no response. He didn't know if she was alive or dead but knew he was in massive trouble. His 10 year old brain then went into cover-up mode and remembering some movies he had seen or games he played he strangled her 'like a real murderer would'.

He then either went to bed and said nothing or went to Patsy and said, "Mommy, someone has broken into the house and done something to JBR". Either way Patsy immediately knew he was the culprit and taking the lead from Burke went further into cover-up mode to try and save him and the family's reputation. To me this theory makes some sort of sense out of an otherwise senseless act.

 

[BBB167893]

I can't discount the PDI theory either.

Two of my friends on FB said something tonight that made me think. "Who wears makeup, jewelry, dresses, and doesn't shed tons of tears when their child is murdered? The killer!" and "I think the little girl told her mother she didn't want to do this any longer and someone lost it. It was never about her. It was all about the mother."

To touch on the head blow and strangulation: If Patsy did it, strangling would be easy especially if JB was having rattles or Cheyne-Stokes. PR was smooth as a cucumber (JR's words) and would do anything and everything to avoid prison. Good heavens, the woman was accustomed to mink and diamonds. An orange jumpsuit just wouldn't do.

There's another thing to consider: what happens in prison to people who hurt kids. We've all heard about men's prisons; women's are WORSE.

 

[UKGuy]

I used to think Patsy accidentally fractured JBR's skull but JBR was strangled an hour later, so how would that fit in? It doesn't. Patsy isn't going to strangle her child to cover up a fractured skull is she?

This is why I firmly believe BR was the culprit - for the head trauma AND the strangulation. It's the only scenario that can fit.

JBR and BR went downstairs, had some pineapple then went down to the basement. BR hit her with something, she fell and BR panicked, dragged her body across the hall to the cellar room, intending to hide her body. Then, for reasons of his own he strangled her fully.

That's when PR went down to find out what the kids were doing. She screamed and ran up to get John.

After panicked and lengthy discussions they decided to stage the scene to look as though an intruder had come into their home. It was the only way they could see to save BR from being taken from them.

They probably thought that once the time for the kidnappers telephone call had come and gone then the police would vacate their home and leave them in peace. They didn't think their home would be searched because their child had been 'taken', that's all.

Then....later they could discover their daughter's body in the cellar room. Hey! -the kidnapper had brought her body back. They killed her because the R's had gone against the strict instructions not to tell the police.

However....the plan went wrong because the police showed no signs of going. In the end JR had to 'discover' her body himself.

Miz Adventure,

I used to think Patsy accidentally fractured JBR's skull but JBR was strangled an hour later, so how would that fit in? It doesn't. Patsy isn't going to strangle her child to cover up a fractured skull is she?

Patsy might ligature asphyxiate to mask a prior attempt at asphyxiation?

PR's fibers are all over JonBenet and embedded in the ligature knotting, although you could argue since if the case is BDI, we might not have been told about BR's fibers being found on JonBenet or the ligature?

i.e. if the case is BDI why is there an absence of forensic evidence linking BR, yet plenty linking both JR and PR?

.

 

[AB1]

Miz Adventure,

Patsy might ligature asphyxiate to mask a prior attempt at asphyxiation?

PR's fibers are all over JonBenet and embedded in the ligature knotting, although you could argue since if the case is BDI, we might not have been told about BR's fibers being found on JonBenet or the ligature?

i.e. if the case is BDI why is there an absence of forensic evidence linking BR, yet plenty linking both JR and PR?

.

BBM
Perhaps because they were pressed for time?
I've mentioned elsewhere, they had to contact police at their "expected" wake up time, otherwise they would arouse suspicion. That became the deadline.
So between discovery of the body and alerting the outside world, they had a set amount of time to "stage".
The absence of forensic evidence against BR could indicate that its removal was the priority of the clean-up.
Get rid of anything implicating BR and create an alternative narrative.
Throwing themselves into the mix was the least of their worries,

Or, of course, the lack of evidence linking BR just means he was not involved.

 

[UKGuy]

BBM
Perhaps because they were pressed for time?
I've mentioned elsewhere, they had to contact police at their "expected" wake up time, otherwise they would arouse suspicion. That became the deadline.
So between discovery of the body and alerting the outside world, they had a set amount of time to "stage".
The absence of forensic evidence against BR could indicate that its removal was the priority of the clean-up.
Get rid of anything implicating BR and create an alternative narrative.
Throwing themselves into the mix was the least of their worries,

Or, of course, the lack of evidence linking BR just means he was not involved.

AB1,
Sure, something along those lines. Looks to me as if they revised a prior staging at the last moment.

The ransom note is really divorced from any actual crime-scene, so is really just an add on. Placing JonBenet in the wine-cellar might simply be a simple case of gentle relocation, along with tossing in any unwelcome evidence?

That's mostly how I see it, i.e. the parents possibly revising BR's amateurish staging, that is assuming Kolar's BDI All, is correct?

.

 

[Bit of hope]

In the end justice will be done to this little girl....

 

[wildebeest]

I used to think Patsy accidentally fractured JBR's skull but JBR was strangled an hour later, so how would that fit in? It doesn't. Patsy isn't going to strangle her child to cover up a fractured skull is she?

This is why I firmly believe BR was the culprit - for the head trauma AND the strangulation. It's the only scenario that can fit.

JBR and BR went downstairs, had some pineapple then went down to the basement. BR hit her with something, she fell and BR panicked, dragged her body across the hall to the cellar room, intending to hide her body. Then, for reasons of his own he strangled her fully. "

I think Burke probably panicked after he knocked JBR out with the head blow. He tried to bring her to by shaking her and sticking the train track into her face and back but got no response. He didn't know if she was alive or dead but knew he was in massive trouble. His 10 year old brain then went into cover-up mode and remembering some movies he had seen or games he played he strangled her 'like a real murderer would'.

He then either went to bed and said nothing or went to Patsy and said, "Mommy, someone has broken into the house and done something to JBR". Either way Patsy immediately knew he was the culprit and taking the lead from Burke went further into cover-up mode to try and save him and the family's reputation. To me this theory makes some sort of sense out of an otherwise senseless act.

:goodpost:

To me, this is the only scenario that fits. The parents staged a massive coverup to protect their last remaining child. Have had this theory for a while, but aftering seeing the Dr. Phil show, became fully convinced.

IMHO

 

[Bit of hope]

I was not going to follow this thread....hahaha....the son did it...period!

 

[debbiegarcia36]

Well the 20/20 feature last night was a sham as many thought it would be 😦

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[zencompass]

If this is true that John Ramsey and Lin Wood want the Grand Jury record public - this would provide answers and justice for
JonBenet (in my opinion). That's if that is true that they want the Grand Jury record public. I have my doubts.

From the article: http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/25/justice/jonbenet-ramsey-documents/


"On Friday, an attorney for John Ramsey and his family urged the district attorney to publicly open "the entire grand jury record and not just 4 pages from an 18-month investigation that produced volumes of testimony and exhibits."

"The released indictments "are nonsensical," said attorney L. Lin Wood. "They reveal nothing about the evidence reviewed by the grand jury and are clearly the result of a confused and compromised process. The Ramsey Family and the public are entitled to the benefit of the full and complete record, not just a historical footnote. Fairness dictates that result."

 

[Userid]

^ Thanks Zen. Hmm, plot thickens. You'd think they would't want that released. Reminds me of how JR/PR wanted the telephone call to be made public -- we all saw what happened when it was (i.e. certainly didn't help his cause any).

 

[BlondeStrawberry]

The reports clearly state that the new findings mean that there is not enough evidence to either exclude nor TO IMPLICATE ANY MEMBER OF THE FAMILY.

Daily Mail "Based on their findings, these results would not be enough to clear the Ramseys of suspicion in the case. It would also not be enough to implicate any member of the family."


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...le-people-victim-s-clothes.html#ixzz4TOOeiuhV
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[zencompass]

http://www.denverpost.com/2013/10/25/jonbent-ramsey-grand-jury-indictment-accused-parents-of-child-abuse-resulting-in-death/


"Wood said he is concerned that the indictment’s release will appear to some to be confirmation that the Ramseys killed their daughter, when they have been cleared"

So does Lin Wood want the release or not? I am thinking - not.

 

[zencompass]

http://pix11.com/2013/10/24/jonbenet-ramsey-documents-to-be-released-against-fathers-wishes/

"John Ramsey’s attorney had written a letter last week to District Attorney Stan Garrett, requesting the documents be kept secret."

“Public release of the allegations of an unprosecuted indictment only serves to further defame (John Ramsey) and his late wife Patricia Ramsey,” wrote Harold Haddon.


In my opinion, the evidence which the Grand Jury heard and read led them to their findings. If the Grand Jury record is released to the public then it will be made known what the evidence was that led them to the indictments.

 

[Forensic Profiler]

As a Forensic Handwriting Expert who was consulted on this issue; the most over-looked clue to this tragedy is the hand printed note. I have yet to review a properly "profiled" report on the author of this important piece of physical evidence. So far this is the only real clue as to the type of person capable of committing such a crime. Amazing how so many alleged officials have literally screwed this investigation up from the very beginning. Maybe it would be interesting to begin a Forensic Handwriting discussion on this site.

 

[kanzz]

As a Forensic Handwriting Expert who was consulted on this issue; the most over-looked clue to this tragedy is the hand printed note. I have yet to review a properly "profiled" report on the author of this important piece of physical evidence. So far this is the only real clue as to the type of person capable of committing such a crime. Amazing how so many alleged officials have literally screwed this investigation up from the very beginning. Maybe it would be interesting to begin a Forensic Handwriting discussion on this site.

Welcome to the forum, Forensic Profiler. We are so glad to have you with us.

Yes, let's start a new thread. "Forensic Handwriting". I've submitted a suggestion to the forum moderator.

In a crime with so very much evidence and opportunity for investigators, they muffed it worse than a bunch of third graders. What a sham and a shame!

Looking forward to learning more from you.

 

[zencompass]

Welcome Forensic Profiler !

:welcome:

I am looking forward to the Forensic Handwriting thread. Thanks for requesting this Kanzz !

 

[singularity]

As a Forensic Handwriting Expert who was consulted on this issue; the most over-looked clue to this tragedy is the hand printed note. I have yet to review a properly "profiled" report on the author of this important piece of physical evidence. So far this is the only real clue as to the type of person capable of committing such a crime. Amazing how so many alleged officials have literally screwed this investigation up from the very beginning. Maybe it would be interesting to begin a Forensic Handwriting discussion on this site.

Are you saying you were consulted on the Ramsey "ransom note"?

I strongly diagree that it was "the most overlooked clue" in this case.

I do have a question though....

In your analysis, did you attempt to overlook the red herring aspect of the note(kidnapping, movie lines) and focus more on what else is actually said in the note? You're new here so aren't caught up on all the various theories by all the members here but I am in the minority who believes the "meat" of this note is nothing more than a domestic dispute on paper between one spouse to another. I was wondering if any of the experts called in had any similar feelings.

I see you are a handwriting expert so I assume your focus was mainly to concentrate on that aspect and not the state of mind the writer of the note is in at the time.

 

[Ambitioned]

As a Forensic Handwriting Expert who was consulted on this issue; the most over-looked clue to this tragedy is the hand printed note. I have yet to review a properly "profiled" report on the author of this important piece of physical evidence. So far this is the only real clue as to the type of person capable of committing such a crime. Amazing how so many alleged officials have literally screwed this investigation up from the very beginning. Maybe it would be interesting to begin a Forensic Handwriting discussion on this site.

Welcome!

I'd love to know what you think of Jim Fitzgerald's analysis of the note!