Brendan Dassey: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's rape, torture, and murder?

[Hoosen_Fenger]

The big problem in the case of TH's death is that there is no evidence anywhere at all that i'm aware of that TH was ever brutally raped & tortured. Even the bone fragment remains have been called into question, so i don't know how any of it can be verified 100%?

Oi... Karinna.... stop that.....

You know that there was a confession (albeit it has been argued as invalid) which said those crimes took place.

I hope she was not tortured. I do know her remains were incinerated.

There is no evidence that anyone else committed this crime. Avery was the last known person to have seen TH.

She never made a call after arriving at the salvage yard. Come on.... what do you suggest happened to her?

 

[Hoosen_Fenger]

I'm floored at times with the LACK of information..regarding this case.

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Now then Dexter.... you know full well there is plenty of information regarding this case. Stop being cheeky.

I'll not ask the obvious and request proof someone else killed Teresa. But you must admit that seeing how Avery from his first TV interview, was suggesting he was being set up, that there is a case to say that his defence lawyers tried to fit the only narrative he presented them?

 

[CoolJ]

Now then Dexter.... you know full well there is plenty of information regarding this case. Stop being cheeky.

I'll not ask the obvious and request proof someone else killed Teresa. But you must admit that seeing how Avery from his first TV interview, was suggesting he was being set up, that there is a case to say that his defence lawyers tried to fit the only narrative he presented them?

I think his defence used the only narrative that made sense considering the disdain that that particular police agency(the one who always seemed to be there when evidence was found) had for him AND due to the FACT that the same police agency had previously framed him for a rape. It's almost a no brainer in my mind.

ETA - oh and did I forget to mention that particular police agency WASNT SUPPOSED TO BE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE

 

[dexter75]

Now then Dexter.... you know full well there is plenty of information regarding this case. Stop being cheeky.

I'll not ask the obvious and request proof someone else killed Teresa. But you must admit that seeing how Avery from his first TV interview, was suggesting he was being set up, that there is a case to say that his defence lawyers tried to fit the only narrative he presented them?

Ya know, I never thought about it.
Averys interview.
I was referring to how some folks " think" they know a lot based soley on MAM rather than actually reading transcripts, etc
As far as evidence of anyone else...that's been discussed here.
Who else was investigated thoroughly? Alibis checked etc.? And what phone records were YOU researching to come to the conclusion Teresa never made a call when she left Averys/after Averys?
Thanks guy😉
Have a great Thanksgiving!

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[missy1974]

I have to say... IF I had spent 18 years in prison (12 for the assault) and was exonerated and now suing the County for $32 million (regardless if that was what he was going to get or not, that is what he was suing for) and I know that I am innocent and her vehicle shows up at the Salvage Yard.... my first comment would be "they are setting me up".

It can be argued that he had a plan to say that to try to get away with it too.

It can be a plausible thought from either side of the fence IMO

Funny, I was thinking about it not long ago, it was mentioned somewhere along the way that vehicles were sometimes found at the Salvage Yard that were either stolen or involved in crimes. MTSO would know about that.

 

[dexter75]

I have to say... IF I had spent 18 years in prison (12 for the assault) and was exonerated and now suing the County for $32 million (regardless if that was what he was going to get or not, that is what he was suing for) and I know that I am innocent and her vehicle shows up at the Salvage Yard.... my first comment would be "they are setting me up".

It can be argued that he had a plan to say that to try to get away with it too.

It can be a plausible thought from either side of the fence IMO

Funny, I was thinking about it not long ago, it was mentioned somewhere along the way that vehicles were sometimes found at the Salvage Yard that were either stolen or involved in crimes. MTSO would know about that.

:loveyou:

:goodpost:

 

[dexter75]

Now then Dexter.... you know full well there is plenty of information regarding this case. Stop being cheeky.

I'll not ask the obvious and request proof someone else killed Teresa. But you must admit that seeing how Avery from his first TV interview, was suggesting he was being set up, that there is a case to say that his defence lawyers tried to fit the only narrative he presented them?

I have looked into everything you have said changed your mind about Avery's guilt. I have asked myself time and time again " WHAT IF he did do it? " because I AM open to that explanation... I AM an OPEN MINDED & UNBIASED woman..

I don't see it. This ABSOLUTE guilt that you see....and I don't understand how YOU went from innocent to 100% GUILTY based on the info you say changed your mind:dunno:

 

[dexter75]

Oi... Karinna.... stop that.....

You know that there was a confession (albeit it has been argued as invalid) which said those crimes took place.

I hope she was not tortured. I do know her remains were incinerated.

There is no evidence that anyone else committed this crime. Avery was the last known person to have seen TH.

She never made a call after arriving at the salvage yard. Come on.... what do you suggest happened to her?

Karinna is right.
Where is the EVIDENCE TH was RAPED & TORTURED?? Not the " confession " from Brendan. EVIDENCE of torture and rape?

 

[proudfootz]

I voted Not Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

I don't think Brendan even saw her that day - he told the cops what he knew on Nov 6th: that he doesn't know what happened to her and for all he knows she will just turn up after having taken a trip to see friends in Green Bay.

 

[Hoosen_Fenger]

Karinna is right.
Where is the EVIDENCE TH was RAPED & TORTURED?? Not the " confession " from Brendan. EVIDENCE of torture and rape?

The evidence is in the confession of one of the two people involved in taking TH's life. I'm pretty sure, that a Judge saying the confession is admissible, (regardless of the retraction & changing nature of it,) counts as evidence. Sometimes, there is a ton of DNA, CCTV or people who watched a crime but did not take part.

Dassey admitted it. Having one of the two people who know exactly what happened that day confess, is evidence.

 

[Hoosen_Fenger]

I have looked into everything you have said changed your mind about Avery's guilt. I have asked myself time and time again " WHAT IF he did do it? " because I AM open to that explanation... I AM an OPEN MINDED & UNBIASED woman..

I don't see it. This ABSOLUTE guilt that you see....and I don't understand how YOU went from innocent to 100% GUILTY based on the info you say changed your mind:dunno:

OK.... seeing how the sun is rising, time is on my side, and coffee shakes me from my slumber..... here goes......

I think the best way to do this, is to agree on certain facts. I am going to put some down, and if you disagree with any, we will discuss them before moving forward. The reason for doing it this way is this is such a moving Beast, we both could get eaten up in the side show of here-say.

Steven Avery was a convicted felon, for which he was sentenced to six years in prison.
He was also convicted of a crime for which he was completely innocent of. (That is hideous as anyone would agree.) He served an extra 12 years for this erroneous conviction.
SA worked in the Auto industry and sometimes sold cars to make extra cash.
SA sold vehicles through AutoTrader, on more than a dozen occasions.
Avery had a sister, who had a car. Avery wanted to sell it.
SA, called AutoTrader to arrange to sell it.
Avery finished work, earlier than he had ever done to prepare for the meeting.
SA told people, he had calls to make.
Avery called a couple of people related to the incarceration of his current girlfriend, in the hours before Haibach arrived.
No one else can confirm this, apart from phone records.
TH arrived at the Avery Salvage Yard. (Whether she took photos or not is moot, because despite people saying they saw her with a camera,the photos have never been found.)
After this time, she became a missing person.
Apart from later reports of who might have seen her, there is no factual evidence to say what happened to her.
Her car was found on the ASY.
The blood, of SA was found in that car, along with her own.
Bullets from a gun, that convicted felon SA should not have been keeping above his bed, were found in a garage.
One of those bullets, had Teresa's DNA on it.
Remnants of her burnt bones, were found right outside the house of the last person she was known to have met.
Her phone, stopped working/ was switched off/ battery died, around 230 on the day this took place. (I know that is not an exact time.)
That is the last time, the person she was last known to have met, also stopped making calls.
The person accused of her murder, had a bonfire on the last day she was seen alive.
His Nephew, attended that bonfire.
His nephew admitted to his mother, he went to the bonfire.

As for the clean up in the garage, who did what at the bonfire, Avery's press & subsequent police interviews, I'll leave for a moment.

Based upon what I have outlined above, please let me know if any of those are not facts.

Given the agreed facts, (plus or minus any changes you want to make,) there is a case for asking Avery what happened.

He did not give clear & concise answers, so the investigation continued.

The evidence was found, his nephew confessed, and he was found to be guilty by 12 peers.

Come on. I have a small dog. There is a pile of *advertiser censored* steaming and he is sitting next to it looking like butter would not melt in his mouth. Am I going to say 'Oh, my sweetie, that could not possibly be you!'

 

[proudfootz]

Given how much of this 'inside knowledge' police had to feed to Brendan in the many hours of coaching that produced these supposedly incriminating statements, it reads more like the police are confessing to Brendan - not the other way around.

 

[proudfootz]

I think it might be a good idea to expand on some of these points in order to put them in context.

OK.... seeing how the sun is rising, time is on my side, and coffee shakes me from my slumber..... here goes......

I think the best way to do this, is to agree on certain facts. I am going to put some down, and if you disagree with any, we will discuss them before moving forward. The reason for doing it this way is this is such a moving Beast, we both could get eaten up in the side show of here-say.

Steven Avery was a convicted felon, for which he was sentenced to six years in prison.
He was also convicted of a crime for which he was completely innocent of. (That is hideous as anyone would agree.) He served an extra 12 years for this erroneous conviction.
SA worked in the Auto industry and sometimes sold cars to make extra cash.
SA sold vehicles through AutoTrader, on more than a dozen occasions.
Avery had a sister, who had a car. Avery wanted to sell it.
SA, called AutoTrader to arrange to sell it.
Avery finished work, earlier than he had ever done to prepare for the meeting.

I'm not sure about whether Steven had 'never' finished work this early.

SA told people, he had calls to make.
Avery called a couple of people related to the incarceration of his current girlfriend, in the hours before Haibach arrived.
No one else can confirm this, apart from phone records.

Wouldn't phone records be confirmation enough to verify Steven is telling the truth?

TH arrived at the Avery Salvage Yard. (Whether she took photos or not is moot, because despite people saying they saw her with a camera,the photos have never been found.)

One of the witnesses says she arrived, took her photos, and left.

After this time, she became a missing person.
Apart from later reports of who might have seen her, there is no factual evidence to say what happened to her.

I agree, there is no factual information on record about what happened to her.

Her car was found on the ASY.
The blood, of SA was found in that car, along with her own.

The car does seem to have ended up at ASY.

Bullets from a gun, that convicted felon SA should not have been keeping above his bed, were found in a garage.

IIRC there isn't any conclusive evidence that the bullet fragment found came from this particular gun.

One of those bullets, had Teresa's DNA on it.

That was what Sherry Culhane reported. It should also be noted that some samples in these tests were contaminated, showing that the reliability of this lab is dubious.

Remnants of her burnt bones, were found right outside the house of the last person she was known to have met.

Oddly enough, police prevented the County Coroner from performing a forensic recovery of these bone fragments which might have revealed how those bones came to be at that location.

Her phone, stopped working/ was switched off/ battery died, around 230 on the day this took place. (I know that is not an exact time.)
That is the last time, the person she was last known to have met, also stopped making calls.

Both Steven and Brendan are known to have been on and off the phone all evening.

The person accused of her murder, had a bonfire on the last day she was seen alive.

If he had a bonfire, it is no extraordinary circumstance. It was Halloween, a perfect night for a bonfire. Steven is reported to have invited friends and family to join him at this bonfire. Is it suggested that he was planning on burning a human corpse on the same fire where everyone else was making s'mores?

His Nephew, attended that bonfire.
His nephew admitted to his mother, he went to the bonfire.

As for the clean up in the garage, who did what at the bonfire, Avery's press & subsequent police interviews, I'll leave for a moment.

Based upon what I have outlined above, please let me know if any of those are not facts.

Some appear to be facts, some appear to be in need of some context.

Given the agreed facts, (plus or minus any changes you want to make,) there is a case for asking Avery what happened.

He did not give clear & concise answers, so the investigation continued.

It's hard to be more clear and concise than she came, she took her photos, and she left.

The evidence was found, his nephew confessed, and he was found to be guilty by 12 peers.

Brendan said a lot of things. Many of them not true. Many of them mutually contradictory.

He also gave a sworn statement of his innocence. This fact should also be included to help give a little perspective.

Come on. I have a small dog. There is a pile of *advertiser censored* steaming and he is sitting next to it looking like butter would not melt in his mouth. Am I going to say 'Oh, my sweetie, that could not possibly be you!'

This is exactly how I feel when police involved in a multi-million dollar lawsuit keep turning up with 'evidence' against the guy who is suing them.

 

[dexter75]

I think it might be a good idea to expand on some of these points in order to put them in context.



I'm not sure about whether Steven had 'never' finished work this early.



Wouldn't phone records be confirmation enough to verify Steven is telling the truth?



One of the witnesses says she arrived, took her photos, and left.



I agree, there is no factual information on record about what happened to her.



The car does seem to have ended up at ASY.



IIRC there isn't any conclusive evidence that the bullet fragment found came from this particular gun.



That was what Sherry Culhane reported. It should also be noted that some samples in these tests were contaminated, showing that the reliability of this lab is dubious.



Oddly enough, police prevented the County Coroner from performing a forensic recovery of these bone fragments which might have revealed how those bones came to be at that location.



Both Steven and Brendan are known to have been on and off the phone all evening.



If he had a bonfire, it is no extraordinary circumstance. It was Halloween, a perfect night for a bonfire. Steven is reported to have invited friends and family to join him at this bonfire. Is it suggested that he was planning on burning a human corpse on the same fire where everyone else was making s'mores?





Some appear to be facts, some appear to be in need of some context.



It's hard to be more clear and concise than she came, she took her photos, and she left.



Brendan said a lot of things. Many of them not true. Many of them mutually contradictory.

He also gave a sworn statement of his innocence. This fact should also be included to help give a little perspective.



This is exactly how I feel when police involved in a multi-million dollar lawsuit keep turning up with 'evidence' against the guy who is suing them.

I like the way your mind thinks😉


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[missy1974]

I like the way your mind thinks��


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It's like I found my American clone :biggrin: I was thinking most of those as I was reading the post LOL

Hoosen_Fenger .... I may not agree with you, but I like that you are continuing to post and it's interesting to see where the fork in the road is where you took the guilty road and others have gone down different roads. I think there are some that need to be expanded on and it's not as clear cut as it seems on the surface. I will expand on my thoughts in another post.... I doubt it will change your mind, but ... I have a day off work and planned on doing nothing today! LOL

 

[dexter75]

It's like I found my American clone [emoji3] I was thinking most of those as I was reading the post LOL

Hoosen_Fenger .... I may not agree with you, but I like that you are continuing to post and it's interesting to see where the fork in the road is where you took the guilty road and others have gone down different roads. I think there are some that need to be expanded on and it's not as clear cut as it seems on the surface. I will expand on my thoughts in another post.... I doubt it will change your mind, but ... I have a day off work and planned on doing nothing today! LOL

Enjoy your day off😉

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[CoolJ]

OK.... seeing how the sun is rising, time is on my side, and coffee shakes me from my slumber..... here goes......

I think the best way to do this, is to agree on certain facts. I am going to put some down, and if you disagree with any, we will discuss them before moving forward. The reason for doing it this way is this is such a moving Beast, we both could get eaten up in the side show of here-say.

Steven Avery was a convicted felon, for which he was sentenced to six years in prison.
He was also convicted of a crime for which he was completely innocent of. (That is hideous as anyone would agree.) He served an extra 12 years for this erroneous conviction.
SA worked in the Auto industry and sometimes sold cars to make extra cash.
SA sold vehicles through AutoTrader, on more than a dozen occasions.
Avery had a sister, who had a car. Avery wanted to sell it.
SA, called AutoTrader to arrange to sell it.
Avery finished work, earlier than he had ever done to prepare for the meeting.
SA told people, he had calls to make.
Avery called a couple of people related to the incarceration of his current girlfriend, in the hours before Haibach arrived.
No one else can confirm this, apart from phone records.
TH arrived at the Avery Salvage Yard. (Whether she took photos or not is moot, because despite people saying they saw her with a camera,the photos have never been found.)
After this time, she became a missing person.
Apart from later reports of who might have seen her, there is no factual evidence to say what happened to her.
Her car was found on the ASY.
The blood, of SA was found in that car, along with her own.
Bullets from a gun, that convicted felon SA should not have been keeping above his bed, were found in a garage.
One of those bullets, had Teresa's DNA on it.
Remnants of her burnt bones, were found right outside the house of the last person she was known to have met.
Her phone, stopped working/ was switched off/ battery died, around 230 on the day this took place. (I know that is not an exact time.)
That is the last time, the person she was last known to have met, also stopped making calls.
The person accused of her murder, had a bonfire on the last day she was seen alive.
His Nephew, attended that bonfire.
His nephew admitted to his mother, he went to the bonfire.

As for the clean up in the garage, who did what at the bonfire, Avery's press & subsequent police interviews, I'll leave for a moment.

Based upon what I have outlined above, please let me know if any of those are not facts.

Given the agreed facts, (plus or minus any changes you want to make,) there is a case for asking Avery what happened.

He did not give clear & concise answers, so the investigation continued.

The evidence was found, his nephew confessed, and he was found to be guilty by 12 peers.

Come on. I have a small dog. There is a pile of *advertiser censored* steaming and he is sitting next to it looking like butter would not melt in his mouth. Am I going to say 'Oh, my sweetie, that could not possibly be you!'

Not many facts. But many assumptions.

Could you link to some of your old posts where you were so adamant about SA and BD's innocence. That would be interesting to see!

I have a small dog too. Once, there was a steaming pile of *advertiser censored* in the house sitting right next to him. I blamed it on him only to find out later it was our other dog.

I'm sorry my friend, not one of your "facts" points towards guilt of SA and/or BD.

In fact, when you look at the facts in their totality, the only reasonable conclusion I can come to is that MCSO successfully framed SA and BD. It is as clear as day. JMO

 

[missy1974]

Steven Avery was a convicted felon, for which he was sentenced to six years in prison.
He was also convicted of a crime for which he was completely innocent of. (That is hideous as anyone would agree.) He served an extra 12 years for this erroneous conviction.

This 6/12/18 year thing is not that clear cut, at least not to me, and I know it's not to others as well. He was convicted of the assault against P.B., wrongfully, and later plead no contest and got 6 years to run concurrently. Here is the doc: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...f-Conviction-1985-Endagerment-and-Firearm.pdf

But lets put it into context... or better yet, lets look at how Buting put it into context in a Memo Opposing prior bad acts: Page 13 http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...mo-Opposing-Uncharged-Misconduct-Evidence.pdf

Avery pled guilty or no contest to the Morris charge
- but only after his wrongful conviction for the 1985 rape and on the expectation
that he would get a concurrent sentence (which he did). His failure to contest the
Morris charge must be understood in that context. He was a man whom the system
had failed, who was bitter, who by reason of immediate personal experience quite
understandably doubted the ability of juries to spare the innocent, and who was
giving up hope. If the Court admitted the Morris incident, it also would have to
allow this evidence of context
​

SM also backtracked on some of the written report statements in her deposition.
[video=youtube;QbA5rPXIFr8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbA5rPXIFr8[/video]

And lets not forget her BFF Judy Dvorak, her comments IMO are largely responsible for PB misidentifying SA.
(I was unable to include the 6 minute youtube clip of her deposition, only 1 video allowed in a post... who knew? LOL)

Also, whether it's agreed on or not, SA WAS suing for 18 years of wrongful imprisonment, I have read the majority of the documents (if not all lol) and have never come across anything that Manitowoc County, Kocourek or Vogel argued that it was actually only 12 years.

SA worked in the Auto industry and sometimes sold cars to make extra cash.

This I would agree with. I think Jodi spoke about it in her interviews and they are in the CASO report.

SA sold vehicles through AutoTrader, on more than a dozen occasions.

This I am not sure I can agree with because I don't have any evidence of that. We do know that October 31st would have been the 6th time she photographed a vehicle for SA, but it was technically a Janda vehicle. We also know she did one in September for Tom Janda.

from this doc http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Offer-of-Proof.pdf

a) June 20, 2005 (Image #1)
b) August 22,2005 (Image#2)
c) August 29,2005 (Image #3)
d) September 19,2005 (Images #4 and #5)
e) October 10, 2005 (Image #6)

Taking a quick look at the documents, it looks like TJanda had an appointment for the 19th of September, but maybe she did a hustle shot for Avery that day as well. Never noticed this before now. On her sheet it said 2 photo's and another, see attached, but I don't see 'the attached'. http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...it-19-Halbach-Appointment-Sheet-2005Sep19.pdf

Avery had a sister, who had a car. Avery wanted to sell it.
SA, called AutoTrader to arrange to sell it.

Sure.

Avery finished work, earlier than he had ever done to prepare for the meeting.

How do we know this?

SA told people, he had calls to make.
Avery called a couple of people related to the incarceration of his current girlfriend, in the hours before Haibach arrived.
No one else can confirm this, apart from phone records.

Don't forget that we only have a small window of phone records for SA, and they are cell phone records. Those records do indicate that he made numerous calls.


I'm going to stop here for now ;-)

 

[missy1974]

Not many facts. But many assumptions.

Could you link to some of your old posts where you were so adamant about SA and BD's innocence. That would be interesting to see!

I have a small dog too. Once, there was a steaming pile of *advertiser censored* in the house sitting right next to him. I blamed it on him only to find out later it was our other dog.

I'm sorry my friend, not one of your "facts" points towards guilt of SA and/or BD.

In fact, when you look at the facts in their totality, the only reasonable conclusion I can come to is that MCSO successfully framed SA and BD. It is as clear as day. JMO

I have 2 dogs.... many times I have blamed 1 dog for something the other has done LOL

I think of kids the same way. I have 3 in the house right now, ranging from 15-24, I went to get a Dr. Pepper Cherry one night to find that the box was empty!!!! I don't drink a lot of pop, so when I wanted one and it wasn't there, I was ticked! My first reaction was to blame the kid that ALWAYS takes the pop.... we find cans/bottles in his room all the time... most hiding LOL Rather than blame the one I thought it was, I posted about it on FB and go figure.... my daughter, the oldest, ratted out her younger brother (15 yr old) in 30 seconds flat... the one kid I wouldn't think would do that. Things are not always what they seem on the surface and I could have blamed the 17yr old and he wouldn't have had much of an argument because of his "prior bad acts" LOL

*sigh* my kids hate my investigative skills

 

[dexter75]

Not many facts. But many assumptions.

Could you link to some of your old posts where you were so adamant about SA and BD's innocence. That would be interesting to see!

I have a small dog too. Once, there was a steaming pile of *advertiser censored* in the house sitting right next to him. I blamed it on him only to find out later it was our other dog.

I'm sorry my friend, not one of your "facts" points towards guilt of SA and/or BD.

In fact, when you look at the facts in their totality, the only reasonable conclusion I can come to is that MCSO successfully framed SA and BD. It is as clear as day. JMO

Great post CoolJ

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