Found Deceased CA - Blaze Bernstein, 19, Lake Forest, 2 Jan 2018 #7 *Arrest*

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Family needs collateral for the 5 million in the event he becomes a fugitive. 500,000 they will not get back even if he goes to all the hearings. If he becomes a fugitive the 5 million will have to be paid.

I have to revisit my notes but I think they purchased the family home for 387K. It’s now valued at 1.5 to 1.8. The home directly across the street from them is for sale, it is a tear down/new build for like 12M. It’s huge with many bells and whistles. I may be off on some of these figures, though not by far.

The new build house is great for neighboring cost appreciation value but only if one doesn’t care about living in the surrounding area.
 
“Instead, “the only arguable substantive limitation of the Bail Clause is that the government’s proposed conditions of release or detention not be ‘excessive’ in light of the perceived evil.”23 Detention pending trial of “arrestees charged with serious felonies who are found after an adversary hearing to pose a threat to the safety of individuals or to the community which no condition of release can dispel” satisfies this requirement.24

Bail is “excessive” in violation of the Eighth Amendment when it is set at a figure higher than an amount reasonably calculated to ensure the asserted governmental interest.25 If the only asserted interest is to guarantee that the accused will stand trial and submit to sentence if found guilty, then “bail must be set by a court at a sum designed to ensure that goal, and no more.”26 To challenge bail as excessive, one must move for a reduction, and if that motion is denied appeal to the Court of Appeals, and if unsuccessful then to the Supreme Court Justice sitting for that circuit”


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Exactly. My point is that, with there being a law that constitutes the right to dispute bail, this may be an argument for the legal defense. The judge may not grant it, but it gives them grounds for dispute. They Are entitled to request a lower bail, at minimum. I doubt they will get it.
 
Exactly. My point is that, with there being a law that constitutes the right to dispute bail, this may be an argument for the legal defense. The judge may not grant it, but it gives them grounds for dispute. They Are entitled to request a lower bail, at minimum. I doubt they will get it.

You are correct, the may request it be lowered, however, he does not have a constitutional right to have that happen.

“At the hearing, the defendant can argue that the initial bail set by the court is so high that it is effectively a denial of bail and amounts to pretrial detention in jail, even though the defendant is not a flight risk or a threat to the public. (18 USC § 3142 (c)(2).) Although the court must take this argument into consideration, it is not required to set bail at a level that the defendant can easily pay. Courts can set bail high enough “to induce a defendant to go to great lengths to raise the funds without violating” the constitution or the Bail Reform Act. (U.S. v. Szot, 768 F.2d 159 (7thCir., 1985).) As long as the court’s actual motive is not to just force the defendant to rot in jail awaiting trial, the court can set bail at any level it can justify.”



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USC is United States Code, Federal law. Federal Court in OC is the 9th Circuit. California Constitution, Codes, & case law apply at this phase of the criminal case.
 
Ok, I think technically this is not in a list of things we post, but it's just background, not directly relevant to the case, not rumor mongering in any way. A boy who was Sam's neighbor just committed suicide a week or so ago. He went to the same high school that Sam graduated from. He left three notes which his parents have publicized. The boy blames the school for his death and describes it in some detail. Very sad but interesting to see what might have helped alienate Sam to the point that he found friends via hate groups.

http://brunersbreak.com/the-game-called-life/not-just-another-suicide/

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I still don't understand this. Why if he had such a supportive family did he feel this was needed? Why didn't he explain to them what was going on, it sounds like they would have supported him. So senseless and avoidable.

I am glad however that this is being made public. Maybe it will save some other lives. It is reasonable to think other kids might seek out bad influences if they feel they cannot please their family. It's no excuse for bad behavior or murder, but I could see it happening for sure.
 
I’m sure there will be a plea deal offer OC loves their plea deals. I think it will be a second degree heat of passion or manslaughter. I don’t think Blaze parents would want to go through a trial with defense making SW the victim and putting Blaze on trial that would be so difficult for his dear loving family. It’s sickening.

It is sickening, but it is our system. False allegations against innocent people. Whether they are a murder victim or a defendant are not uncommon.

However, I think you guys are underestimating the Bernstein family. Of course nobody wants to go through a trial. Nobody wants to see their family member dragged through the mud. However, they want justice. They will not be okay with a manslaughter plea. No way. I think they will want the 25 year minimum. I could be wrong, but I think they are strong enough to fight for justice and I believe they will do it. :twocents:
 
USC is United States Code, Federal law. Federal Court in OC is the 9th Circuit. California Constitution, Codes, & case law apply at this phase of the criminal case.

Touché :) I’ll still bite though...

“Unlike the language of the Eighth Amendment, that excessive bail shall not be required, the California Constitution also contains a provision that "All persons shall be bailable by sufficient sureties, unless for capital offenses when the proof is evident or the presumption great. ..." (Art. I, § 6.) Yet, that provision is reasonably susceptible to the interpretation that all persons are entitled to be considered for bail without regard to the type of offense committed (e.g., rape, mayhem, arson, etc., with the exception noted). In other words, the California provision might have been intended as insuring that the courts will not routinely deny bail whenever a particular class of offenses is charged, without regard to the particular defendant's suitability for bail. Under such an interpretation, the courts would retain a degree of discretion to deny bail when necessary to promote the public safety and welfare. fn. 2

Moreover, even if we assume arguendo that a constitutional right to bail exists, it is noteworthy that the framers of our state Constitution also recognized the "inalienable right" of all men to enjoy and defend their life and liberty, to protect their property, and to pursue and obtain safety and happiness. (Cal. Const., art. I, § 1.) The constitutional provisions concerning bail have no greater standing or priority than the one just referred to -- the two must be read together. The necessary implication in doing so is that the courts must retain the inherent power to achieve a suitable balance between society's right of defense, protection and safety, and defendant's own right to bail.”


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It is sickening, but it is our system. False allegations against innocent people. Whether they are a murder victim or a defendant are not uncommon.

However, I think you guys are underestimating the Bernstein family. Of course nobody wants to go through a trial. Nobody wants to see their family member dragged through the mud. However, they want justice. They will not be okay with a manslaughter plea. No way. I think they will want the 25 year minimum. I could be wrong, but I think they are strong enough to fight for justice and I believe they will do it. :twocents:

I agree. Blaze’s mom is a lawyer, she is not going to allow her son’s murderer to get off easy, so to speak.


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Are we allowed to mention things for which there will probably never be published evidence?

I've been scanning Reddit, Facebook for any and all descriptions of Sam in school. And I've been reading about Aspergers and high functioning Autism. The description of how these people typically interact sounds so much like mostly unpublished descriptions of Sam.

From Wikipedia: "People with AS may not be as withdrawn around others, compared with those with other, more debilitating forms of autism; they approach others, even if awkwardly. For example, a person with AS may engage in a one-sided, long-winded speech about a favorite topic, while misunderstanding or not recognizing the listener's feelings or reactions, such as a wish to change the topic of talk or end the interaction.[17] This social awkwardness has been called "active but odd".[5] This failure to react appropriately to social interaction may appear as disregard for other people's feelings, and may come across as insensitive.[17] However, not all individuals with AS will approach others. Some of them may even display selective mutism, not speaking at all to most people and excessively to specific others. Some may choose only to talk to people they like.[33]

The cognitive ability of children with AS often allows them to articulate social norms in a laboratory context,[5] where they may be able to show a theoretical understanding of other people's emotions; however, they typically have difficulty acting on this knowledge in fluid, real-life situations.[17] People with AS may analyze and distill their observations of social interaction into rigid behavioral guidelines, and apply these rules in awkward ways, such as forced eye contact, resulting in a demeanor that appears rigid or socially naive. Childhood desire for companionship can become numbed through a history of failed social encounters.[5]"

So talking obsessively about his homophobic or right wing views at OCSA without knowing he was alienating his listeners would be typical. Murder is not typical of course, and there is usually another issue or history of abuse before someone on the spectrum gets violent. But they often have trouble with containing their emotions and expressing them appropriately.

Another thing that seems to fit is that they are terrible liars. Usually if they do commit crimes it's very much heat of the moment. But sometimes there are plans to get revenge. And though they know in theory that it's wrong, they should hide it, etc, if asked directly they usually tell the truth or close to it. It's all they can do. So Sam telling LE details that incriminated him, Borega park, hobby lobby parking lot, wanting to call him *advertiser censored**ott, etc. fits that. And his lies being totally unbelievable, also typical.

It just seems to fit. Though there is no way of knowing....and it would be pretty useless for a Defence.



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I agree. Blaze’s mom is a lawyer, she is not going to allow her son’s murderer to get off easy, so to speak.


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I'm sure they would consult them on any deal too. Minimally I think they want make sure he doesn't hurt anyone else. I think you are correct about 25 year minimum but who knows. If he continues to be obsessed with hate groups he will never past the parole board, and the AB might want to make him their boy.

They Bernsteins keep saying they want answers, but I don't think they feel anything would constitute justice. Of course nothing brings back Blaze but I'm sure people doing good in his name brings a little comfort.


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I think of his sister, often. I never think on or of S W.
 
Are we allowed to mention things for which there will probably never be published evidence?

I've been scanning Reddit, Facebook for any and all descriptions of Sam in school. And I've been reading about Aspergers and high functioning Autism. The description of how these people typically interact sounds so much like mostly unpublished descriptions of Sam.

From Wikipedia: "People with AS may not be as withdrawn around others, compared with those with other, more debilitating forms of autism; they approach others, even if awkwardly. For example, a person with AS may engage in a one-sided, long-winded speech about a favorite topic, while misunderstanding or not recognizing the listener's feelings or reactions, such as a wish to change the topic of talk or end the interaction.[17] This social awkwardness has been called "active but odd".[5] This failure to react appropriately to social interaction may appear as disregard for other people's feelings, and may come across as insensitive.[17] However, not all individuals with AS will approach others. Some of them may even display selective mutism, not speaking at all to most people and excessively to specific others. Some may choose only to talk to people they like.[33]

The cognitive ability of children with AS often allows them to articulate social norms in a laboratory context,[5] where they may be able to show a theoretical understanding of other people's emotions; however, they typically have difficulty acting on this knowledge in fluid, real-life situations.[17] People with AS may analyze and distill their observations of social interaction into rigid behavioral guidelines, and apply these rules in awkward ways, such as forced eye contact, resulting in a demeanor that appears rigid or socially naive. Childhood desire for companionship can become numbed through a history of failed social encounters.[5]"

So talking obsessively about his homophobic or right wing views at OCSA without knowing he was alienating his listeners would be typical. Murder is not typical of course, and there is usually another issue or history of abuse before someone on the spectrum gets violent. But they often have trouble with containing their emotions and expressing them appropriately.

Another thing that seems to fit is that they are terrible liars. Usually if they do commit crimes it's very much heat of the moment. But sometimes there are plans to get revenge. And though they know in theory that it's wrong, they should hide it, etc, if asked directly they usually tell the truth or close to it. It's all they can do. So Sam telling LE details that incriminated him, Borega park, hobby lobby parking lot, wanting to call him *advertiser censored**ott, etc. fits that. And his lies being totally unbelievable, also typical.

It just seems to fit. Though there is no way of knowing....and it would be pretty useless for a Defence.



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While that might be a convenient therory to try and justify his behavior- he had NO trouble lying to police when asked where Blaze (and Blazes
body) was. He let them conduct a multi-day and multi- person intensive search (while he was at the park even) adding lies about blaze running off to meet a friend while he was in the bathroom etc... no truth there at all.

sorry but Im not buying the he has Aspergers so he is incapable to an extent
of lying effectively. He consciously lied. Maybe he told a flimsy story because he wants to be a hero in Neo Nazi circles - that would explain his severe neo Nazi haircut days after the crime - he is living out his fantasy.
 
2Hope4 said:
I wonder if the car was leased, versus being bought? Do people still do that? It might not be rental as in daily or weekly rental. Do they call it 'rental' if you keep it a year and then get another car? I'm obviously ignorant of this subject. I've never had a vehicle that wasn't bought. But the thought just popped into my pea brain this morning while reading this thread. I have asked how people can afford brand new cars, house, etc, with the wages we have in our area. I'm told many of the vehicles are leased and depending on the lease, will be given back and a new vehicle in a year or two, thus always driving a new vehicle. Seems bizarre to me, as it's never paid for, but I guess the plus side is the monthly payments are lower, and you don't have to worry about huge repair bills.

Yes, people still lease cars! I don't think it would be called a "rental" though.

I'm thinking of leasing a car here, so I don't have to worry about any mechanical problems, as my husband died and I don't trust people with "fixing" my car. Only 99 euros a month to lease here!

Mica said:
03/02/18
1:30 PM Pre Trial

:gthanks:
 
‘The biggest benefit that a young man gets when he earns his Eagle Scout rank is that he is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.

He embodies the Scout Law, and that makes him a man of strong character. These traits will help him in everything he does, from husband and father to employee to community leader.

Eagle Scouts value perseverance, discipline, motivation, leadership, accountability, and achievement. And those lead to tangible benefits.’

‘TANGIBLE BENEFITS’ is what I imagine the attorney was after.

I wonder if his parents were concerned about the artistic community at the school being too liberal in their views on gays. Even if it were unspoken it could have irritated his father.
 
sequences said:
[FONT=&amp]
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[FONT=&amp]From ProPublica article:[/FONT]
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[FONT=&amp]according to three people with knowledge of the man’s recent activities.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]— and some recent news reports have suggested that the alleged killer might hold far-right or even white supremacist political beliefs.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&amp]Now, three people with detailed knowledge of Woodward’s recent past have been able to shed more light on the young man’s extremist activities. [/FONT]
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[FONT=&amp]Experts who study right-wing extremist movements believe Atomwaffen’s commitment to violence has made it one of the more dangerous groups to emerge from the new wave of white supremacists.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
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[FONT=&amp]Two of the three people who described Woodward’s affiliations are friends of his; the other is a former member of Atomwaffen Division.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]ProPublica’s revelations about Woodward’s background add a new element to a murder case that has attracted considerable local and national news coverage. But they also raise fresh concerns about groups like Atomwaffen Division, shadowy outfits of uncertain size that appear capable of genuine harm.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
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[FONT=&amp]Woodward joined the organization in early 2016 and later traveled to Texas to attend Atomwaffen meetings and a three-day training camp,[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
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[FONT=&amp]One of the photos depicts Woodward and other members making straight-armed Nazi salutes while wearing skull masks. In other pictures, Woodward is unmasked and easily identifiable. [/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Social media posts and chat logs shared by Woodward’s friends [/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]He “was as anti-Semitic as you can get,” according to one acquaintance[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Atomwaffen started in 2015 and is estimated to have about 80 members scattered around the country in small cells;[/FONT]
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[FONT=&amp]While many of the new white extremist groups have consciously avoided using Nazi imagery, Atomwaffen has done the opposite. [/FONT]
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[FONT=&amp]<snipped> [/FONT]
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[FONT=&amp]You left out these referenced sources:[/FONT]
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ProPublica said:
[FONT=&amp]The young man is proficient with both handguns and assault rifles, according to one person who participated in the Texas training and watched him shoot. That person also said that Woodward helped organize a number of Atomwaffen members in California.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Social media posts and chat logs shared by Woodward’s friends show that he openly described himself as a “National Socialist” or Nazi. He “was as anti-Semitic as you can get,” according to one acquaintance.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&amp]BBM. The significance being that one source is someone who was at the camp with SW and saw him participate in training.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
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sequences said:
[FONT=&amp]Atomwaffen uses nazi imagery. Group photo imagery a hand singal. See the photo through the belief of neo nazi, hand seen as a "salute." However seeing thru training camp detail, the response to "any questions" is raising hand. Therefore, the photographic evidence of atomwaffen is from the sources mouths.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
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[FONT=&amp]MOO: Reasonable people are able to distinguish between a Nazi salute and three people in training simultaneously raising their hands to ask a question. IMO, the photo clearly show the former, not the latter.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]To clarify, are you stating that you believe the photo shows three people raising their hands to ask a question?[/FONT]
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sequences said:
[FONT=&amp]<snipped> IMO, a "news" report based on hearsay harms the legal process. LE has to waste money trying to locate the sources of photographs & confirm rather information is false or true.<snipped> [/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]IMO, the news media is reporting on SW's involvement in a hate group based on multiple confirmed sources who are friends of SW's, participated with SW in Atomwaffen training and are members of Atomwaffen. In many high-profile cases, investigators -- including investigative reporters -- need to utilize information provided by sources who wish to remain anonymous or confidential. When that is the case, responsible investigators and reporters confirm the information provided through multiple sources and secondary evidence. For a famous example of a confidential source, please see the Wiki entry on Deep Throat (Watergate).[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Why remain anonymous? In some cases, the informant(s) may be guilty of criminal behavior. An informant may not wish for unsavory affiliations, such as to an extremist hate group that has been linked to multiple murders by members, to be made public. An informant may have essential information of criminal behavior by powerful people and/or organizations and thus may be a retaliation target if his/her identity is known. There are many legitimate reasons why informants retain anonymity, and why law enforcement and the news media recognize and protect confidential informants.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Finally, the news media is not an arm of the prosecution or the defense. Whether SW's demonstrated affiliation with hate groups played a role in the murder of BB is most likely (IMO) of strong interest to LE and the prosecution, so sourced reporting in the news media is unlikely to be a "waste of money." It's part of LE's separate investigation. [/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]To clarify, are you stating that LE investigating SW's affiliation with hate groups is a "waste of money?"[/FONT]
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sequences said:
[FONT=&amp]<snipped> While defense investigators have access to question SW directly. [/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]What does this have to do with news media reporting or LE's investigation into SW's murder of BB? [/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]To clarify, are you stating that the only account you will accept regarding SW's affiliation with hate groups will be statements by his defense attorney and by SW?[/FONT]

---

Hi sequences, bringing this forward because you may have missed it earlier in the thread.
 
[FONT=&amp]
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[FONT=&amp]You left out these referenced sources:[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]


[FONT=&amp]
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[FONT=&amp]BBM. The significance being that one source is someone who was at the camp with SW and saw him participate in training.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]


[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]MOO: Reasonable people are able to distinguish between a Nazi salute and three people in training simultaneously raising their hands to ask a question. IMO, the photo clearly show the former, not the latter.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]To clarify, are you stating that you believe the photo shows three people raising their hands to ask a question?[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]IMO, the news media is reporting on SW's involvement in a hate group based on multiple confirmed sources who are friends of SW's, participated with SW in Atomwaffen training and are members of Atomwaffen. In many high-profile cases, investigators -- including investigative reporters -- need to utilize information provided by sources who wish to remain anonymous or confidential. When that is the case, responsible investigators and reporters confirm the information provided through multiple sources and secondary evidence. For a famous example of a confidential source, please see the Wiki entry on Deep Throat (Watergate).[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Why remain anonymous? In some cases, the informant(s) may be guilty of criminal behavior. An informant may not wish for unsavory affiliations, such as to an extremist hate group that has been linked to multiple murders by members, to be made public. An informant may have essential information of criminal behavior by powerful people and/or organizations and thus may be a retaliation target if his/her identity is known. There are many legitimate reasons why informants retain anonymity, and why law enforcement and the news media recognize and protect confidential informants.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Finally, the news media is not an arm of the prosecution or the defense. Whether SW's demonstrated affiliation with hate groups played a role in the murder of BB is most likely (IMO) of strong interest to LE and the prosecution, so sourced reporting in the news media is unlikely to be a "waste of money." It's part of LE's separate investigation. [/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]To clarify, are you stating that LE investigating SW's affiliation with hate groups is a "waste of money?"[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]


[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]What does this have to do with news media reporting or LE's investigation into SW's murder of BB? [/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]To clarify, are you stating that the only account you will accept regarding SW's affiliation with hate groups will be statements by his defense attorney and by SW?[/FONT]

---

Hi sequences, bringing this forward because you may have missed it earlier in the thread.
I'm as liberal as they come and I have concerns about the vetting of the ProPublica article.

My first and biggest concern is the fact that the photos which Jake Hanrahan tweeted were not included in the ProPublica article. I've had ProPublica in my RSS feed for years and read most of their reports; they include photos all the time. There is a reason that those photos weren't included in the article and one wonders if it is because they did not meet the organization's standards.

Unnamed sources are fine. However I was surprised that there wasn't more included to support their claims; because that's one thing I've always loved about ProPublica-- they always share their source material.

Like I said, I've been following ProPublica for years, they've earned my trust. My concerns are because of my familiarity with the organization's work and their practice of sharing source material (especially stuff referenced with their reports).
 
He was alt-left. Fan of The Young Turks

Elliot Rodger was obsessed with Nazis and Hitler and became a poster boy for atom Waffen and other groups. They don't know if he was part of an organized group but his death note manifesto was very racist and sexist. It was two years before Atom Waffen started that he died. His words:

“How could an inferior, ugly black boy be able to get a white girl and not me? I am beautiful, and I am half white myself,” Rodger wrote. “I am descended from British aristocracy. He is descended from slaves.”

Here is the article that is the source of the other articles:

https://www.splcenter.org/20180205/alt-right-killing-people

By the way the guy that put up flyers at Penn and other places has been outed, fired, and kicked out of his flat. I don't think you can be arrested for it though. I read about it yesterday but can't find the link.

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