CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #3

[watchful_eye]

The minute I stumbled upon this case, I was instantly drawn in. So tragic and bizaare--and just so creepy. I really feel for this young woman and her family. Normally, I would scoff at a victim in a similar circumstance and say, 'You had no business traveling alone and staying near Skid Row as a 21 yr old female, so look what happened,' but the water tank...that is just awful. Just terrible. And I hate how all the press seemed to talk about was how her body affecting the water pressure and color, and grossed out the guests. For g-d sakes, show some respect.

After reading articles, and many posts here, on YouTube, and within articles, in addition to viewing the extraordinarily creepy elevator video, I firmly believe 2 things:

1. Ms. Lam was high on some sort of drug, be it street or prescription, taken by choice or given to her without her knowing. It is so clear in this video, I am surprised to read others comments of it being anything otherwise, except mental illness. The pace in which she moves, slow and casual -to- quick and illogical, and the manner and speed in which she moves her limbs. Also her face and speed of movement showed no sign of fear or danger. At all. At one point she pushes all the buttons for quite a long period of time, like she is intent and focused on pushing them all. She was acting as if she was a young child in a way, only---high.

2. Suicide or accidental death should REALLY be ruled out, if the lid was on the tank when she was found. I just do not see how a girl of her stature and that she was unfamiliar with the building, being a tourist, could have physically gotten herself into that water tank and closed the lid (if the lid was closed). There is NO WAY she could have closed the lid on herself. No way. Someone had to have done this to her. This is if the lid was on. It is possible that in her drug-induced state, she could have wondered up there and jumped or fallen in---but only if the lid was off when they found her.

Also, a water tank is just so random for a non-hotel resident/guest to think about or visit. Only someone that works there or lives there would really get creative and utilize and have access to something so forgotten and far out of everyones reach.

Personally, this really is starting to look like an inside job. Here are some theories that I am still mulling over...

1. I think Lam could have taken drugs to escape reality/depression and someone who worked there noticed this and took advantage of her right at that moment they saw her high.

2. Lam was stalked from the beginning of her stay, and the stalker used the cameras in the elevator to wait her out and got lucky in that she used drugs--which enabled him to take advantage of her. There are theories out there stating that the video looked edited or controlled, and frankly, it's not a bad point.

3. Scenario #2, but she was drugged in some way by her stalker, without her having any social contact with anyone. A worker slipped something in her drink/food. The murderer could have had help from other sinister co-workers. You never know. It could have been a sneaky assembly line of quiet assault from several workers or tenants.

4. Lam was social with one or more people at the hotel, was drugged, or took drugs with them...and the rest is tragedy.

I do think her state of mind, altered in some way, was her fate. Someone used it against her to kill her, or flat out did it TO kill her.

How someone got her into the tank...unsure, but it was most likely someone that worked there, that had a better handle on how to travel up there and maneuver the tank parts. A tenant, possibly, but more so a worker.

I would be heart broken to hear that the LAPD and the medical team close the case as unexplained, accidental, or a suicide. She and her poor family deserves justice.

I do feel bad for her, but we still cannot forget that this is just another cautionary tale for young women not to travel alone out of the country, or at the least, people, young and old, to heed caution when interacting with others while traveling. It is hard to fit in the lesson of how you shouldn't do drugs, because she may have been drugged against her will. People, young and old, please be careful as a tourist. You have a target on your back. Don't make it easy for others.

 

[Turk February]

Greetings to all of you who have been looking over this case. I have decided to sign up over here to join in the discussion and hopefully offer some new information, mostly because of this case and the work you all have done on it.

I posted a thread and info on another forum, and have traded some info back and forth with some users here. I made sure to give credit for links and appreciated those who credited my work as well. I love the fact that you all seem very objective and don't pay much attention to the "far out" hypotheses (they aren't even theories) and stick to the facts.

I love puzzles, problem solving, cryptology and possess a skill set I probably shouldn't mention, although I do not do anything illegal while "sleuthing".. I am very good at finding information. I am looking forward to learning more about the case and will be posting information as I uncover it.

I hope that soon justice can be served for Elisa and I admire the mod/admin decision to close the thread during her services.

Welcome aboard.

Well can I help you get started here by asking what your scenario would be on how Elisa Lam's body could have ended up inside the water tank in the rooftop?

 

[Vergofa]

I guess no one would know this, but I wonder if any one with access to turn off the roof alarm has been missing from work for about three weeks.

Also, it would not have to be an employee, some of the guests have been there for years and if someone got up to the tanks to spray graffiti, maybe it was not as secure as they state. Maybe the alarm only went off when the door was open, then turned off as soon as it was closed.

 

[librarian12372]

I was thinking of another possible theory. She went up to the 15th floor and went on the roof and maybe she saw/heard a security guard and thought she might be in trouble for going in to the roof (caught on camera in the elevator). That is why she appears to be hiding etc. But when he finally confronts her she gets defensive, he tells her they have to go up there to show him how she got there or what she was doing or something. She doesn't want to but goes hesitantly. I don't know what happened from there , but If it was foul play (which IMO I think it was) I think she may have been forced up on the utility roof and was lowered to the tank after she was killed. Maybe put in there after she was unconscious from drugs, so she drowned because she was unconscious. All this is JMO. this case is so perplexing, I've been reading every post - just thought of this scenario.

This is a good theory. I do believe the crime was committed by someone who doesn't have to use the water, for example, shower or drink it or brush their teeth there. Perhaps someone hates their job or the residents and staff.

 

[Chorley8]

Yes. I do think this matches. I am not 100% sure and can't totally confirm this but I do think it looks like the 15th floor. Most of the floors were painted different and it's a little confusing trying to think back especially because we didn't spend a whole lot of time on other floors. I wish we had stopped at the 14th floor at some point so that I could have that to compare to but unfortunately we did not. I can say for SURE that it is not floors 1, 2, 3 or 4 since we used the stairs to go down a lot and saw those floors several times during our stay.

Just curious why would you (and why would other guests) go to multiple floors? (Usually when I stay in a hotel I just go to my own floor unless there is something specific like a restaurant on the other floor). Just a young person thing?

Also from Watchful Eye: "There is NO WAY she could have closed the lid on herself. No way. Someone had to have done this to her. This is if the lid was on. It is possible that in her drug-induced state, she could have wondered up there and jumped or fallen in---but only if the lid was off when they found her." I believe she was killed - BUT it would be possible for the lid to be open............then replaced later by a worker innocently enough just wondering why it was left open. Possible, not likely. Good post by the way thanks, food for thought.

 

[smeinzer]

Hi smeinzer! Thanks for joining the community and offering to answer some questions. I am wondering if you can help us determine conclusively which floor Eliza was on in the video.

Do you know or remember if the 14th floor walls (outside the elevators) were the same as the 15th floor (a darkish brown) or if they were a blue-green color? Do you know what color the 10th floor walls were?

And just out of curiosity, when you went onto the roof in the dark to take pictures, did you notice the water tanks or utility room at all? Did you see the utility room and consider climbing on top of it to get a better view? Did you notice any graffiti? I guess I'm wondering how conscious an average individual would be to all of these items the first time they arrive on the rooftop, especially in the dark.

Thanks again smeinzer for your willingness to clarify things for all of us!

Hey infereron! I wish that I could give more details but unfortunately I never stopped that the 14th floor or the 10th floor. I DO THINK that the walls on the 15th floor are dark brown as seen in the photos but I am not 100% on this.

And yes I did notice the tanks for sure. We even discussed going down the stairs instead of back down the ladder but decided against it. We didn't even end up going over to the stairs. We didn't get on top of anything else because at that point we had decided that we didn't like the vantage point enough to use this as a place to get the skyline shots we had imagined. And no neither of us noticed the graffiti nor if there were ladders on the tanks at the time. I definitely do think however, that someone on the roof would notice the tanks. If there was a ladder and I was in a panic situation I could see trying to use it as a hiding place but it is not immediately obvious as a place you can get into. It never crossed my mind that someone could or would get into one.

 

[Figuring]

Hi. New here as well. I have read every post over the past few days, as well as her blogs and social media. I have a background in psychology and have worked in a mental hospital the past few years.

It's definitely impossible to tell whether Elisa is experiencing mental illness or on a psychotropic drug in the elevator as both conditions, by definition, involve altered brain chemistry. This could even be a product of her (recently prescribed?) medications, either adverse effects, running out/losing them. There are some dire warnings around stopping these medications suddenly.

From a forensic psych point of view, it is very doubtful that she was taken to the roof after she died. Too difficult with the windows and ladders, too much chance of being caught. It's unlikely this is a resident, not only because of the risk but its also impossible to believe they would do that to their own water supply.

To me, the chances of this being suicide are slim to none. Bipolar people have a great deal of suicidal ideation, but not action, particularly in the hypo phase, which it seems she was in. Also, there are much easier ways to kill herself -- jumping, or her pills.

It's much more likely that she was watched and befriended by a fellow traveller. Someone who saw she was alone. There was plenty of space to interact with other travellers--the lounge, the laundry, the cafe. This person may have taken her to the roof more than once. Possibly once in the days before, to build trust. It's possible she was killed because some 'plan' was botched, but it's more likely that is was premeditated. I know people have asked about her clothes but there are many people who have killed without sexually assaulting someone. It is likely this is someone who may be long gone--which is why Interpol is involved in the case, and why LE cannot say much at this point.

I hope for the sake of her family, and other young women, they figure this out soon.

 

[ceefry23]

Thanks smeinzer.

By the way, here is a look of the 14th floor at the Cecil Hotel if you were wondering. Just watch this video here. I hope this will help refresh your memory of the place in case there was something you may have forgotten.

Tour of the Cecil hotel: The BEST hotel in downtown Los Angeles. - YouTube

Alright turk your lost post was just too long to answer every different dispute I had with your theory, although I do agree with quite a lot as well.

However moving forward I am now ALMOST convinced that she was on the 15th floor in this video. The 14th floor looks a bit different where as the 15th floor looks quite similar to the floor in the video.

Here are my two questions:
1: Why is it that when the elevator starts working again, it appears to move DOWN. In theory that she is on the 15th floor to begin with and we speculate to see the 14 light dim out.. Why do those floors look almost identical? I mean pictures show one brown wall and one green wall.

2: The video you reference shows a different security camera in the top corner of the elevator than the photo i referenced yesterday which was seemingly a newer post. Remember that?

3: Do we know that floors 8-15 arent all very similar? I ask this because if my theory of her being on the 14th floor is correct.. The elevator would move to 10 (which looked identical to 14) then to 7 (which was quite a lot brighter I found and nicer. It could be due to dim lighting and a general similar style of each floor (with the exception of paint color and picture/mirror) that floors 8-15 all look the same in the eye of that ****** camera

 

[bessie]

To smash_the_stack, smeinzer, Vergofa, and all our new members...

:welcome5:

If you have questions or need assistance with posting, please don't hesitate to send a pm to a moderator. We'll be happy to help you.
​

 

[smeinzer]

Just curious why would you (and why would other guests) go to multiple floors? (Usually when I stay in a hotel I just go to my own floor unless there is something specific like a restaurant on the other floor). Just a young person thing?

We went to the 4th floor where we stayed and to the 15th floor (highest you can get on an elevator) so that we could access the roof. Other than that we only passed through floors 1-4 as we descended to the ground level via the stairs because only one elevator was working during most of our stay. It was easy to remember the colors of those floors because we spent time walking through them.

 

[smash the stack]

Welcome aboard.

Well can I help you get started here by asking what your scenario would be on how Elisa Lam's body could have ended up inside the water tank in the rooftop?

Thank you.

I stumbled upon information regarding Alvin Taylor (the witness from the CNN video showing the water) when I was googling for quotes by Bernard Diaz and entered the wrong name. If nothing else, I believe that him being a convicted pedophile only shows that the speculation on the type of people living in that hotel as long term residents is actually quite viable.

Going off of that concept.. I started to look for motive. I find a spread in the L.A. Times showing Mr. Taylor photographed in his room and it was talking about how the hotel has new owners who plan to renovate it and turn it into a tourist destination.

I began thinking about the people, like Taylor, with criminal backgrounds who could be living in the Hotel long term who have nothing else to lose but a place to live.

Then a plan formed, what if a group of them got together and planned this all? What if the plan was to associate such a stigma with the hotel that the owners would be forced to either tear it down or rent those rooms out to anyone who would take them?

I started looking to people associated with the case and found that the gentleman putting up <modsnip> videos, Mr. <modsnip>, was also a convicted pedophile. From there I just felt a creepy aura surrounding all of it..

I think that someone was outside of that elevator. I think she knew they were following her or was previously with this person/people before hand and decided to leave. I think she seems to be pretty calculated in her actions upon entering the elevator. I believe she hit the middle row because her floor was included, and did this as a safety precaution, as you also suggested.

I believe she didn't mean to hit the door hold button and as she realized the door wasn't opening.. she beings to become increasingly uncomfortable. I think this is why she eventually hides in the one corner of the elevator that masks her presence in it to anyone outside of it.

Then I think she hears them outside of the elevator and knows she has to deal with them. I think she attempts this and ends up going back in with her hands on her head (like she can't believe what is happening) and panics.

From that point on her actions become erratic. She hits every button in a panic to get the elevator to close the door and move. When she realizes that, at this point, they are either pressing or holding down the button outside, she reluctantly goes with them. Perhaps they had a weapon, a gun would explain the fact that she didn't attempt to scream or call out for help.

Now.. I pause here to ask, who would have known to stay out of sight of that camera. Long term residents, especially someone who had been there for 20+ years would know EXACTLY where the cameras were. They would know exactly how to avoid being detected by security, ESPECIALLY if they spent time in prison.

I think she was taken up to the roof alive.. either up the ladder or through the door.

From there it is strictly speculation.. I am leaning toward someone choloforming her and sticking her passed out body into the tank. I am wondering if the tanks ran inline or fed different parts of the building.

I understand I have probably made a few leaps here.. but I just wanted to explain my theory as it has evolved.. and I look forward to discussing it and either disproving it completely or finding more info to support it.

I am going to link my thread on the other forum to share the info I had there.. although some of it you already found.. and a lot of times found it before me.. which I liked a lot. Good to know there are people who care enough to do the work!

 

[ceefry23]

As well consider this; She is on the 14th floor because thats where the room of her attacker is.. The room she is leaving when we see her in the elevator. Attacker catches up to her and eventually coaxes her back to the room. At this point hes desperate I mean we have proof that she isnt very into going back with this person.

The person drugs her, the drugs she is given mixed with the drugs she was on cause her heart to stop perhaps killing her instantly. Either her body drops lifeless in the room (causing nearby resident to be startled by a loud noise) or after Elisa doesnt wake up killer goes thru a frantic search for something that he can hide the body in for transport.

At this point I think is where her phone and ID ended up in the toilet. CLogging the lines.

I can also believe this all went down on the 14th floor and very nearby where said BD resided. Perhaps even one or two units before (pipewise) his unit? It would explain better why he heard such commotion.. because there were both on the 14th floor

 

[Fei]

A pic from Apple Daily (Taiwan). It is claimed that Apple daily sent their reporter(s) to the venue, who checked in Cecil Hotel last Saturday (Doesn't this contradict to a former report that Cecil is closed 2/23-2/25? LINK)

And Elisa is said to be on the 14th floor.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Just now trying to catch up on this case, so forgive me if you guys have already caught this. But one of the reasons she's acting so strangely in the elevator is because she's not wearing her glasses. She's clearly having a very hard time seeing, which is why she stoops down and hits several buttons, imo.

 

[ceefry23]

This idea of collusion between tenants is interesting. I mean its a solid motive to me.

Perhaps B DIAZ told reporters that he was on the third floor as a show of alibi?
Imagine hes saying I was on the third floor but leaving out that it was the room of another resident? and the other resident happens to be using his room for the night.. why? because its nice and close to the roof.

Any shady characters show up as living on the third floor?

I wouldnt put it past the chance that there is a not bad looking young man (maybe with some mental illness) that resides in that hotel. Hes the best looking one of the bunch so hes the one to lure the poor girl.

If people report her being overly loud in the bookstore, if she was loud in a crazy fashion then I can definitely see her being targeted as weak.

 

[Buckeye lady]

As well consider this; She is on the 14th floor because thats where the room of her attacker is.. The room she is leaving when we see her in the elevator. Attacker catches up to her and eventually coaxes her back to the room. At this point hes desperate I mean we have proof that she isnt very into going back with this person.

The person drugs her, the drugs she is given mixed with the drugs she was on cause her heart to stop perhaps killing her instantly. Either her body drops lifeless in the room (causing nearby resident to be startled by a loud noise) or after Elisa doesnt wake up killer goes thru a frantic search for something that he can hide the body in for transport.

At this point I think is where her phone and ID ended up in the toilet. CLogging the lines.

I can also believe this all went down on the 14th floor and very nearby where said BD resided. Perhaps even one or two units before (pipewise) his unit? It would explain better why he heard such commotion.. because there were both on the 14th floor

I thought I read that her phone, her computer, her money and belongings were all found in her room.

 

[fred&edna]

As well consider this; She is on the 14th floor because thats where the room of her attacker is.. The room she is leaving when we see her in the elevator. Attacker catches up to her and eventually coaxes her back to the room. At this point hes desperate I mean we have proof that she isnt very into going back with this person.

The person drugs her, the drugs she is given mixed with the drugs she was on cause her heart to stop perhaps killing her instantly. Either her body drops lifeless in the room (causing nearby resident to be startled by a loud noise) or after Elisa doesnt wake up killer goes thru a frantic search for something that he can hide the body in for transport.

At this point I think is where her phone and ID ended up in the toilet. CLogging the lines.

I can also believe this all went down on the 14th floor and very nearby where said BD resided. Perhaps even one or two units before (pipewise) his unit? It would explain better why he heard such commotion.. because there were both on the 14th floor

Unless the quote is wrong, Diaz would have to be below the 4th floor. Am I missing something?

"Bernard Diaz, 89, said he heard a "tremendous" noise the night before Lam was missing in the fourth floor above him and there was flooding on the fourth floor the day after Lam went missing."




http://www.examiner.com/article/bod...ourist-found-water-tank-on-top-of-cecil-hotel

 

[Chorley8]

"I think that someone was outside of that elevator. I think she knew they were following her or was previously with this person/people before hand and decided to leave. I think she seems to be pretty calculated in her actions upon entering the elevator. I believe she hit the middle row because her floor was included, and did this as a safety precaution, as you also suggested.

I believe she didn't mean to hit the door hold button and as she realized the door wasn't opening.. she beings to become increasingly uncomfortable. I think this is why she eventually hides in the one corner of the elevator that masks her presence in it to anyone outside of it.

Then I think she hears them outside of the elevator and knows she has to deal with them. I think she attempts this and ends up going back in with her hands on her head (like she can't believe what is happening) and panics. "

Recent (excellent) post thanks. What would freak her out besides the elevator not working? Weapons? People in costume or masked? People saying or doing relatively minor deviant things? Cat and mouse game and she is beginning to realize she really isn't going to be allowed to leave? "Game" mirroring the on-line game she like now turning bad? I think your idea of an adventure/game beginning to go out of control is persuasive. Problem with the roof of her own accord theory is of course the dogs. The little room on the roof would be out of the way of prying eyes but again surely the dogs.....

It would be excellent if someone could get the bookstore employee to confirm that she was acting out in the bookstore as someone has posted here - the interview I have seen does not give that impression - maybe they were being discrete, polite (?)

Still looking for photos of Elisa beyond the 5 released. Still looking for evidence of her body being removed from the hotel.

 

[ceefry23]

A pic from Apple Daily (Taiwan). It is claimed that Apple daily sent their reporter(s) to the venue, who checked in Cecil Hotel last Saturday (Doesn't this contradict a former report that Cecil is closed 2/23-2/25? LINK)

And Elisa is said to be on the 14th floor.

I believe this article to be 100% true! I dont read the language but they are to me showing the 14th floor. A renovated 14th floor. Oddly enough it looks the same as the renovated 15th floor. The picture that illustrates the walls being green was obviously pre reno.

I think meaning this.

Floors 8-15 have the same paint now and are laid out almost identically.

Floor 7 would be nicer, more well let.

This is what the video shows.

Someone find a renod picture of the 10th floor I bet it has a different kind of light or something because thats the only difference between floor 10 and floor 14, the bottom view of a light.

 

[ceefry23]

"I think that someone was outside of that elevator. I think she knew they were following her or was previously with this person/people before hand and decided to leave. I think she seems to be pretty calculated in her actions upon entering the elevator. I believe she hit the middle row because her floor was included, and did this as a safety precaution, as you also suggested.

I believe she didn't mean to hit the door hold button and as she realized the door wasn't opening.. she beings to become increasingly uncomfortable. I think this is why she eventually hides in the one corner of the elevator that masks her presence in it to anyone outside of it.

Then I think she hears them outside of the elevator and knows she has to deal with them. I think she attempts this and ends up going back in with her hands on her head (like she can't believe what is happening) and panics. "

Recent (excellent) post thanks. What would freak her out besides the elevator not working? Weapons? People in costume or masked? People saying or doing relatively minor deviant things? Cat and mouse game and she is beginning to realize she really isn't going to be allowed to leave? "Game" mirroring the on-line game she like now turning bad? I think your idea of an adventure/game beginning to go out of control is persuasive. Problem with the roof of her own accord theory is of course the dogs. The little room on the roof would be out of the way of prying eyes but again surely the dogs.....

It would be excellent if someone could get the bookstore employee to confirm that she was acting out in the bookstore as someone has posted here - the interview I have seen does not give that impression - maybe they were being discrete, polite (?)

Still looking for photos of Elisa beyond the 5 released. Still looking for evidence of her body being removed from the hotel.

Chorley I Have many friends that are girls that I can relate this situation to. They put themselves in bad positions such as hanging out in hotel rooms or houses of stranger they just met. They drink they kiss they fool around and right before its sex time they leave.

This is what is happening here as well imo. Shes already told him no 1000 times in the room, manages to escape to the elevator only to have him come back. Once the elevator leaves she doesnt need to make excuses why she doesnt want to stay any longer with this guy.

The elevator wont leave. She tries a few more excuses before giving in to what im guessing was "one more drink".

This was the perps last chance. So he goes for the sure thing, drugging her. However he doesnt anticipate that shes already on medication and the drugging kills poor elisa.

This has been my theory for a few days and I feel it strongly explains everything we see and know about the situation of the video.