Identified! CA - Mendocino Co, 2 WhtFem Teens, Jul'79 *Francine Trimble & Kerry Graham*

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kahskye said:
. I'd love to check into what two children went missing in the time frame of the birth of Jane & John to their death. Someone must have an answer. Couldn't their teeth be traced to dental records?
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I know you've probably just missed it but I have been through the WHOLE Ncmec database (thats the official missing children database ) I searched for:

ALL male children with brown, light brown and blonde hair that EVER went missing.

I also searched for ALL female children with brown, light brown, and blonde hair and brown eyes.

I looked through all children macthing these descriptions that went missing in 1979 or before- so that would included babies.

I went through the whole database- theres really not that many to choose from as it has a good search facility. Shadowangel did the same thing on the doe network. Of all the children reported missing before Jane and John Doe were found I have posted the ONLY possible matches ablove. That database covers the whole of the US, there are no other REPORTED possible missing children AT all.

These are the only possible matches and they're really not that great- and have probably already been looked into. In fact when you do the search Leigh Savoie actually comes up on the same page as John Doe, so Im sure they must've bee right?!
Anyway........

Anna waters
http://doenetwork.org/cases/176dfca.html

for John Doe- this little boy Leigh Francis Savoie http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/savoie_leigh.html

Its a mystery!!!!I have a feeling these children arent from the US.
 
It is very strange that investigators seem to have nailed down the date of death to 8 December 1978, rather than stating a range of months such as "death is estimated to have occurred 3 to 6 months prior to discovery". And yet they do not know for certain whether these two children are brother and sister. A simple DNA test could prove that one way or the other. And it would be a significant clue to go on when searching past cases. What is it - a double abduction of siblings or two separate unrelated abductions?

I have a feeling that this case is more likely one in which the children were only kept by their murderer for a short period of time before they were killed. Not a case of them being kept for years by an abductor and then killed by him.

Why the lack of a matching sibling case in today's data base? For one thing, the data bases are fairly new, and there are many older cases which have yet to be included. Another possible reason is that for some reason, they were never reported as missing. California is a place where people from many other states tend to migrate to. They may have been recent arrivals and not known to neighbors and may have had no relatives in the area/state. It is also possible that they were living or traveling with a divorced/widowed parent (or with both parents) and that the whole family were victims.

Consider the possibility of Leonard Lake and Charles Ng, two California based serial killers who abducted, tortured, and murdered whole families about that time frame.
 
I did some checking into Gerald Gallego...He and his wife fled CA in late Sept '78 after Gallego was charged for the molestation of his daughter. They fled to Houston, TX, and were there by late Sept-Oct of '78. Also, the van, a 1973 Dodge camper conversion, had a mural of a desert mountain scene, complete with circling vultures...

It is entirely possible that the children's DNA was never tested. DNA testing didn't come into use until '85, and with no one serioulsy looking, and with nothing to test against, I would guess that DNA has never been extracted. Although the remains were skeletal, would the dry climate preserve some DNA, such as tooth root or marrow?
 
The killer could have utilized this as a dumping ground, much as Ridgeway. He could have kidnapped and murdered the kids- then dumped them at the site. It worked once, so he could have done the same thing weeks or months later. I too wonder what made LE make the decision on the exact date of the killings. Even a witness seeing a vehicle in the area could have seen the second body being dumped.
I wonder if LE would give out any info in this case? It is almost 30 yrs old.
 
Unidentified White Female
  • Located on July 8, 1979 in Mendocino County, California
  • Cause of death is unknown.
  • The estimated date of death is December 8, 1978.
  • Skeletal Remains


Vital Statistics

  • Estimated age: Not over 14 years old. Estimated year of birth is 1964.
  • Approximate Height and Weight: 5'5-1/2"
  • Distinguishing Characteristics: Light brown hair.
  • Dentals: Available. Excellent teeth. All adult teeth except the wisdom teeth which were still impacted.
  • Jewelry: She was wearing the pictured hoop with a pearched-bird earring (pierced-ear type).



Case History
The victim's skeletal remains were found together with the remains of an unidentified male child near Hwy. 20, West of Willits, in Mendocino County, CA. The anthropologist report indicates a high probability that the two were brother and sister.



Investigators
If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:
Mendocino County Sheriff's Office
800-815-3505

NCIC Number:
U-765178400
Please refer to this number when contacting any agency with information regarding this case.
Source Information: National Center for Missing and Exploited Children
California Department of Justice
Mendocino County Sheriff's Office






Unidentified White Male
  • Located on July 8, 1979 in Mendocino County, California
  • Cause of death is unknown.
  • The estimated date of death is December 8, 1978.
  • Skeletal Remains


Vital Statistics

  • Estimated age: 13 years old. Estimated year of birth is 1965.
  • Approximate Height and Weight: 5'5"
  • Distinguishing Characteristics: Light brown hair.
  • Dentals: Excellent teeth. No decay, no cavities, no fillings. All adult teeth except the wisdom teeth which were still impacted.
The victim's skeletal remains were found together with the remains of an unidentified female child near Highway 20, West of Willits, in Mendocino County, CA.
The anthropologist report indicates a high probability that the two were brother and sister.




Investigators
If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:
Mendocino County Sheriff's Office
800-815-3505

NCIC Number:
U-765181075
Please refer to this number when contacting any agency with information regarding this case.
Source Information: National Center for Missing and Exploited Children
California Department Of Justice
Mendocino County Sheriff's Office


Links:

Female: http://doenetwork.org/cases/131ufca.html
Male: http://doenetwork.org/cases/111umca.html

NOTE: The Doe Network's Chronological index lists them both as being found on July 10th, 1979 not July 8th, 1979
 
A brother and sister ...how sad. It would seem to me that they were killed by a famliy member but then again, they don't even know if it was foul play. Are there any other details? How impossibly sad is this...:(
 
lilsister said:
A brother and sister ...how sad. It would seem to me that they were killed by a famliy member but then again, they don't even know if it was foul play. Are there any other details? How impossibly sad is this...:(
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I tried to find online articles about these two and didn't quite find anything :( ...

I thought maybe if they were killed, they could have been killed by a relative or maybe the parents could have been involved in their deaths for all we know. These two could have been killed perhaps to stop them from telling something to somebody or they could have accidentally died.

Perhaps these two ran away from home over something and while trying to find a place to stay, could have gotten lost and died of exposure depending on the weather around the time of their estimated time of death
 
I totally see your point , according to the NCMEC:

On July 10, 1979, the skeletal remains of a white female and of a white male were found near Hwy. 20, West of Willits, in Mendocino Co., CA. The estimated date of death is 12/8/1978. Jane is estimated to be 14 years old and was about 5'5-1/2" in height. She was wearing the pictured hoop with a pearched-bird earring (pierced-ear type). John is estimated to be 13 years old and was about 5'5" in height. It is possible these children were related, perhaps brother and sister. The photographs are computer-generated facial reconstructions done by a forensic artist at the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Features such as eyes color, nose, size of lips and ears are the estimations of the artist to complete the image and should not be used as a significant marker for identification. The "DOB" and "Age Now" fields are an approximation.

There is no apparent indication of a crime of passion etc. However, 2 young people do not go missing and found later deceased without questions attached.
 
lilsister said:
I totally see your point , according to the NCMEC:

On July 10, 1979, the skeletal remains of a white female and of a white male were found near Hwy. 20, West of Willits, in Mendocino Co., CA. The estimated date of death is 12/8/1978. Jane is estimated to be 14 years old and was about 5'5-1/2" in height. She was wearing the pictured hoop with a pearched-bird earring (pierced-ear type). John is estimated to be 13 years old and was about 5'5" in height. It is possible these children were related, perhaps brother and sister. The photographs are computer-generated facial reconstructions done by a forensic artist at the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Features such as eyes color, nose, size of lips and ears are the estimations of the artist to complete the image and should not be used as a significant marker for identification. The "DOB" and "Age Now" fields are an approximation.

There is no apparent indication of a crime of passion etc. However, 2 young people do not go missing and found later deceased without questions attached.
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If they were found July 10th, 1979- then why do the Doe Network pages for both Jane and John Doe say July 8th, 1979?? It's probably a typo...

Perhaps these two could have been abducted while they were out by themselves- somebody could have abducted them out of anyone's sight, taken them somewhere and killed them and then could have dumped them off near Hwy.20
 
Have you explored Leonard Lake and Charles Ng? I'm not sure what years they were operating, but it was near Willits where they were committing murders.
 
LinasK said:
Have you explored Leonard Lake and Charles Ng? I'm not sure what years they were operating, but it was near Willits where they were committing murders.
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If Lake and Ng had killed the parents then that would explain why the children have not been identified.
It is hard to understand why, if the two kids were a couple, two sets of parent were not looking for them.
If they are brother and sister surely the parents would be looking for them unless they killed them or died themselves. Many families lose contact with each other and that may explain why extended family was not looking for a brother and sister.
I was wondering about the Zodiak but Ng and Lake make sense.
 
I know I've read an article in the last 2-3 months that said further testing showed that they were not related...I'll work on finding that article
 
lymom3 said:
I know I've read an article in the last 2-3 months that said further testing showed that they were not related...I'll work on finding that article
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If that turns out to be the case it is difficult to understand how 2 different families have not identified the kids.
Perhaps the kids were from different areas and not a "couple" but met up and were killed. That still would leave the families to at least trace the children to a specific area and find both children went missing at the same time.
It brings to mind the runaways that were featured on tv often about 10 yrs ago. All these runaway children would end up on the same streets of a big city far from home. They would become couples or families to survive. Perhaps these are 2 runaways that went to the big city to live and met up. A serial killer would find them from one or both of them prostituting themselves for money or just living on the streets. Their bodies may be from another city even.
Facinating story.
 
lymom3 said:
Looks like testing was done showing no relation between the two, but ast you can read here that opens a whole new discussion. Here's a link to that entire thread because I am a putz and it's 3am...


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34302&highlight=california+unidentified
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These kids look exactly like the Reinert kids. I know it sounds far fetched but could it be a case of Chimera DNA? If the samples were taken from a parent with this, the children would not come up as being the children of the mother. They are now finding Chimera DNA to be more proliferent than they ever expected, but of course DNA is really in its infant stage and the more samples they get and have to test will reveal more cases.
 
Becba said:
If Lake and Ng had killed the parents then that would explain why the children have not been identified.
It is hard to understand why, if the two kids were a couple, two sets of parent were not looking for them.
If they are brother and sister surely the parents would be looking for them unless they killed them or died themselves. Many families lose contact with each other and that may explain why extended family was not looking for a brother and sister.
I was wondering about the Zodiak but Ng and Lake make sense.
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Thanks!!

I didn't think of that earlier!
 
LinasK said:
Have you explored Leonard Lake and Charles Ng? I'm not sure what years they were operating, but it was near Willits where they were committing murders.
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Willits is a couple of hundred miles from the Sonora area where Lake and Ng were active. There is an town named "Sonoma" not too far from Willits, but it is a completely different area.

See map: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=willits,+ca+to+sonora,+ca&om=1

I remember seeing speculation that these JD's may be related to Jim Jones and the People's Temple deaths. The PT lived in the area for a while and maintained a small group of followers there after the bulk of members had moved to Guyana. The approximated date of death lines up with the timeframe of the mass suicides - it is feasible that the children were killed as part of a murder/suicide of followers of Jim Jones. Someone would have had to have killed and buried the children, then went somewhere else and killed themselves.
 
Dr. Doogie said:
Willits is a couple of hundred miles from the Sonora area where Lake and Ng were active. There is an town named "Sonoma" not too far from Willits, but it is a completely different area.

See map: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=willits,+ca+to+sonora,+ca&om=1

I remember seeing speculation that these JD's may be related to Jim Jones and the People's Temple deaths. The PT lived in the area for a while and maintained a small group of followers there after the bulk of members had moved to Guyana. The approximated date of death lines up with the timeframe of the mass suicides - it is feasible that the children were killed as part of a murder/suicide of followers of Jim Jones. Someone would have had to have killed and buried the children, then went somewhere else and killed themselves.
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I could e-mail the Doe Network about the Lang and Ng possibility- but if I do, I may have to also find the e-mail for the department/office investigating the case

Because DNA ruled out them being Brother and Sister, is it possible that these two were friends or boyfriend and girlfriend??
 
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