Can we tell when RC is lying now? Armchair eye analysis

[Kimster]

We can open new threads to discuss or I can rename this one to include whoever. I think the comments have been fascinating so far! I had an opinion when I started this morning and now I've taken some twists and turns!

Great job!

 

[Kimster]

Ron is a tough read..,maybe because he's actually grieving & mixes the truth in with his lies. The thing with Ron, is unless something he says, is later proved to be inconsistant, I can't tell he's lying! & I'm usually pretty good at spotting a liar. But, we don't have much experience with guys like him...so as we're seeing so much truth, it's hard to spot the lies, & vice versa.

He doesn't use a lot of body language. I think that's what you mean! I've always felt he is the most "stoic" of the players in this case. That's why when I watched that video this morning and saw fluctuating movement with his eyes, I was thinking "aha!". That's where we can read him the best, IMO.

 

[dodie20]

One way, I spot a liar, is by hearing a fakeness to the voice. kind of actery. Tommy does that a lot, when he lies. When Misty lies, she gets a sing songy lilt to her voice, but Ron is tough for me, because the most I can usually hear is discomfort or anger. When I go back & read the transcripts, is when I catch his. & the more I hear somebody talk, the easier it gets to detect the lies. I've never been much of an eye watcher...more of a voice quality listener & a body language watcher. When my daughter lies, she can look me straight in the eye, but her voice pitch goes up almost a whole octave, & her usual lower raspy voice, gets kind of light & airy. I've never pointed that out to her, & she has no idea how I always know.

 

[krkrjx]

My daughter was never much of a talker but whenever she tried to lie her way out of something she would talk much more than normal. She would give more information than necessasry; she would tell an entire story rather than just make a one or two-sentence statement that would have sufficiently answered the question.

That is what I saw in Misty so often, in particular in her statement starting with "I put Haleigh to bed at 8 o'clock..." Misty never used only parts of that story, even when just one or two phrases would have answered a question being put to her. That initial story of Misty's was one colossal lie from start to finish and it was very easy to spot as such; it was recitation of a memorized script, not a recollection of events. And poor Misty was not even good enough at memorizing the script to be consistent about whether she got up for a drink of water or to use the bathroom. IMO, had her tale been true, she would have remembered why she got up! Whenever Misty told that tale, there was much to be gleaned from watching her posture and eye movements.

As for Ron, I do not think he is honest in any way about anything and because of that, I have no way to determine if all his lies and deceit about Haleigh's demise are actually more or less than his normal day-to-day routine of lies and deceit. IOW, lying and deceiving are a way of life for Ronald Cummings, and he has built a wall around himself to keep others from getting too close. This is a defense mechanism and is a sign of distrust. For me, it is difficult to determine whether Ron is lying more about Haleigh than he does as just a matter of course or not.

 

[Nonni Brenda]

When it comes to my 3 children, they are very good at lying. I usually can't tell until it's over and I have a chance to think about it. My son doesn't like lieing, so he has the hardest time doing it. He is a such a charmer he usually doesn't have to. My oldest daughter gets real sweet and usually asks how my day is going.LOL

 

[azwriter]

Here's a test:

Watch a video of Kyton's father address the press. Then watch Ron. Big difference. Who seems more genuine?

jmo

 

[krkrjx]

Here's a test:

Watch a video of Kyton's father address the press. Then watch Ron. Big difference. Who seems more genuine?

jmo

WOW az....I was just thinking about how different Kyron's parents come across than Ron, TN, Misty, et al.

 

[cyberborg]

My daughter was never much of a talker but whenever she tried to lie her way out of something she would talk much more than normal. She would give more information than necessasry; she would tell an entire story rather than just make a one or two-sentence statement that would have sufficiently answered the question.

That is what I saw in Misty so often, in particular in her statement starting with "I put Haleigh to bed at 8 o'clock..." Misty never used only parts of that story, even when just one or two phrases would have answered a question being put to her. That initial story of Misty's was one colossal lie from start to finish and it was very easy to spot as such; it was recitation of a memorized script, not a recollection of events. And poor Misty was not even good enough at memorizing the script to be consistent about whether she got up for a drink of water or to use the bathroom. IMO, had her tale been true, she would have remembered why she got up! Whenever Misty told that tale, there was much to be gleaned from watching her posture and eye movements.

As for Ron, I do not think he is honest in any way about anything and because of that, I have no way to determine if all his lies and deceit about Haleigh's demise are actually more or less than his normal day-to-day routine of lies and deceit. IOW, lying and deceiving are a way of life for Ronald Cummings, and he has built a wall around himself to keep others from getting too close. This is a defense mechanism and is a sign of distrust. For me, it is difficult to determine whether Ron is lying more about Haleigh than he does as just a matter of course or not.

BBM.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

Misty improved over time by keeping the 'script' shorter and succinct so she could remember it and not get more backlash over discrepancies.

Ron is confusing because he is genuinely grieving over the death of HaLeigh while lying to cover, Ron's trademark is curt short phrases repeated over so he does not say much or get caught in a long statement where he mis-speaks.

 

[krkrjx]

BBM.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

Misty improved over time by keeping the 'script' shorter and succinct so she could remember it and not get more backlash over discrepancies.

Ron is confusing because he is genuinely grieving over the death of HaLeigh while lying to cover, Ron's trademark is curt short phrases repeated over so he does not say much or get caught in a long statement where he mis-speaks.

True! Ron has genuinely grieved and it is not uncommon for one involved to grieve especially if what happened was unintentional. And I agree that Ron is very careful not to give long, involved statements. IMO, he could not do so without tripping up, and I think he knows it!

IMO, Haleigh's demise was the result of negligence, carelessness, or perhaps anger in the heat of the moment. The crime itself had no motive. The cover-up is where motive enters in. And this cover-up is rife with LIES!

 

[cyberborg]

WOW az....I was just thinking about how different Kyron's parents come across than Ron, TN, Misty, et al.

Exactly ... Ron (and TN?) are very curt and "un-helpful" they do NOT volunteer any information. I was always intrigued in shows like NG that while I can give Ron credit for being nervous he stuck to his pat answers and even when NG tried to elicit more ... you'd get nothing!!

To me this is atypical of a father who surely wants to do everything and anything, volunteer any info to help find his daughter. It is hard to read his eyes in most interviews because he simply does not say much! He just sticks to the flash cards.

I feel that it was partly because Ron knew it was a waste of time (HaLeigh was already dead) and he found it hard to play act (play along) as well as he did not want to self-incriminate and he would without TN to complete his statements.

Casey Anthony could not be bothered play acting in the role of a desperate Mother who had a missing child, she was so past that. The only difference was that Ron loved HaLeigh and grieved for her ... Casey did not.

 

[dodie20]

Exactly ... Ron (and TN?) are very curt and "un-helpful" they do NOT volunteer any information. I was always intrigued in shows like NG that while I can give Ron credit for being nervous he stuck to his pat answers and even when NG tried to elicit more ... you'd get nothing!!

To me this is atypical of a father who surely wants to do everything and anything, volunteer any info to help find his daughter. It is hard to read his eyes in most interviews because he simply does not say much! He just sticks to the flash cards.

I feel that it was partly because Ron knew it was a waste of time (HaLeigh was already dead) and he found it hard to play act (play along) as well as he did not want to self-incriminate and he would without TN to complete his statements.

Casey Anthony could not be bothered play acting in the role of a desperate Mother who had a missing child, she was so past that. The only difference was that Ron loved HaLeigh and grieved for her ... Casey did not.

you're right, & when I listened to Ron, I would hear that real grief, & see that real anguish on his face. & when you hear & see something so true, it's hard to detect what's not true. But I've noticed a change, when Ron tells an obvious lie...an eye rolling, head shaking, 'no, no, no, that's not right', demeanor takes over. It's like he's correcting a not very smart child.

 

[dodie20]

BBM.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

Misty improved over time by keeping the 'script' shorter and succinct so she could remember it and not get more backlash over discrepancies.

Ron is confusing because he is genuinely grieving over the death of HaLeigh while lying to cover, Ron's trademark is curt short phrases repeated over so he does not say much or get caught in a long statement where he mis-speaks.

exactly. curt & short.

 

[krkrjx]

Ron's truths are also unintentional to some degree, IMO. In the few instances where he actually spoke in full sentences, he spoke the truth: "I'd give my life to have my child's life back" was said from the heart and without thinking. He meant this, but I believe he said it because for the moment he had let down his guard. IMO, the minute those words were out he regretted having said them. Too often when Ron was asked a question that required an extensive answer he would respond with, "I don't know. I was at work." TN used a similar tactic: She would scrunch up her face and squeeze out a tear--it was very effective in getting the interviewer to not push further.

ETA: Another example of Ron saying too much and tripping up in the process is his interview with Geraldo where he admits Haleigh had been spanked the way DCF says is the proper way to discipline a child. Way too much info had spewed forth from Ron in that instance, and I would bet he immediately regretted having said that! He basically told the world that DCF had had to instruct him on how to discipline...and I do not think ol' Ronnie ever intended for such info to be made public.

 

[debs]

Here is a basic eye chart. Remember, this is as though you are facing the person and your viewpoint.

Here's another snip from another site on the topic:

"Think for a second. If you ask your brother if he took out the trash, and he begins to weave an intricate tale, look at his eyes. Are they up and to the left or to the side and left? If so, he is creating the image and might just be lying. If you’re creating an image, you’re making it up on the spot- lying at it’s best. However, if he is looking to the right, he might just be telling the truth.

You can test this out with a friend. Ask him or her the color of socks she is wearing at the moment. He or she would have to remember visually what color, and would look up and to the right. Then ask him or her what he or she is thinking in his or her head right now. Looking down and to the right might be the proper cue. Now ask him or her to make up a new story that he or she created. The eyes should flutter to the mid to upper left." http://positivelypsychology.com/

Okay, I tried this on the Main Squeeze. I asked about his socks. He stared at me and responded........."white."

I asked him what he's thinking right now. He responded "Why you asked me about the color of my socks." I don't think he even blinked.


FAIL.

 

[suspicious1]

Okay, I tried this on the Main Squeeze. I asked about his socks. He stared at me and responded........."white."

I asked him what he's thinking right now. He responded "Why you asked me about the color of my socks." I don't think he even blinked.


FAIL.

:rolling::rolling::rolling::floorlaugh:

 

[Donjeta]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1PlszjkZ5Q&feature=related

Sorry, about having to go through the news report first, but when I got to the interview, here are some things i noticed right off the bat....

When asked about JRs account of the "man in black" story, Ron looks to the left and down and says that he thinks that is the "garbage" Geraldo and Crystal are making up and he is going to leave it at that. But not making eye contact with the interviewer until he has completed saying his sentence.

What is with the chin? Both he and Misty do this....He is asked by the interviewer if he believes what Jr has told about the "man in black" and Ron swiftly raises his head, and looks at the interviewer and says (with that smirk) i don't know, i wasn't at home, i was at work, and then does that defiant chin upward movement. Mind you, All the while his arms are crossed. and just noticed at the same time as the chin movement he says, he can't tell you honestly.

When they are asked if they passed the poly's, Ron looks down and says absolutely.

then asked why they got married, he looks down, then takes a deep breath and says that is what "his little girl would have wanted" and when she returns they will have a much bigger wedding, but that is still drawing the focus off HaLeigh (i think this is one of the only times he actually mentions HaLeigh by her name and not referred to as her, she or my daughter) and how that is his personal life, and doesn't see how his personal life has to do with finding his daughter.


I was going to use the GVS interview, but it is hard to see the eyes there too.....

BBM. This is Ronald's one moment of truth IMO. I absolutely believe him when he says that he can't tell us honestly.

We don't have to wonder if he's lying because he tells us he is...
The use of honestly like this is a huge red flag in statement analysis.

 

[azwriter]

WOW az....I was just thinking about how different Kyron's parents come across than Ron, TN, Misty, et al.

crackerjack, if you were thinking that while I was posting the same idea, does that mean we were seperated at birth? Scary huh?

 

[krkrjx]

crackerjack, if you were thinking that while I was posting the same idea, does that mean we were seperated at birth? Scary huh?

Hmmmm...Arizona. Is that you sis?

 

[TxLady2]

Okay, first thing that strikes me is that this is a statement from Ronald to the press, yet he has not come out with a prepared statement. He instead waits for questions to be asked OF him, and he answers. All the answers he gives are pat statements, ones that cannot really discern much of anything. For instance, "Is there anything you want the public to do, what can they do to help?" ..... his response is "Find my daughter." Curt and to the point.

But as for his eyes, it's rather difficult to tell because he's situated in a way that forces him to squint into the sun. That makes it very difficult to discern eye-lie cues. What I do notice is that he drops his head a lot, taking time "for himself" (meaning he removes his eye contact from the reporters to isolate himself from them).

When he is asked about LE's report of leads, he does shift (no, I'm not saying he has shifty eyes) his glance down, then to the right, avoiding contact, as though pondering what leads could they be looking at, and it's almost like he's wondering what could there possibly be that could lead them to Haleigh. This is not weighted in terms of whether he's checked off mentally everything to make sure he covered his butt. It's just an observation as a response to that line of questions from reporters. He's thinking about something. I'm making the assumption it's about what leads there could be. (I then offer my opinion that he's making sure he's covered his butt, but hey. I don't really know.)

When he is asked if he believes Misty is telling the truth, he repeats the question as his response. "Yeah, I believe she's telling the truth." all the while licking his lips and putting his eyes down. I don't believe him. He'll look at the person asking the question, but he doesn't look at them when he responds.

Then he's asked about the fight with Misty which puts him on the defensive, and at this point, I believe the interviewing is lost. He's asked about a fight with Joe and he just shuts it down. "People don't know what they talking about." He starts making a lot of eye contact at this point but I don't know that it's about the "truth"..... I think it's about standing in front of a bear and showing the bear you're tougher by staring it down, even if you're peeing yourself.

He's asked about family visiting. We now know that his grandmother, his aunt, several of Misty's family, were all there by 8 p.m. We've heard that his mother was the one who the children were left with, who then called Misty to come babysit (still rumor/truth mixing on that last one. Will we ever know? Probably not.) But anyway, Ron's eyes start evading again, and his tone is still very defensive. He defers to the detectives who he knows aren't going to answer questions like that. But he's also biting the inside of his mouth toward the end of this exchange. He shakes his head, he purses his lips, he squints his eyes (now more in disgust than because of the sunlight).

He keeps insisting he's not going to answer questions, they need to ask detectives. By midway through this, I'm wondering why the hell he bothered to come out without a prepared statement. Then I realize, it's because he wants to shut people up. He's not there to give any real statement, he's MAKING a statement with his behavior.

(P.S., I really wish Teresa would have not been interrupting his responses. Yeesh)

7 minutes in, and he finally makes his statement, (which, of course, teresa one-ups him on). YEESH again.

Jamie Watts talks for a couple minutes, and it causes Ron to step back a bit so he has room. He dances from foot to foot, looking up under his hat from time to time, measuring the reporters. I don't know if it's to see if they're honing in on him or not. Occasionally I see his mouth tense. I do know that at one point he crosses his arms (in the middle of JW talking about the teeshirts, so that he in fact hides from view Haleigh's face. It's unconscious, I don't think he's doing it deliberately, but wow. What a message.

When asked about Jr (sweet little boy.) he responds rather kindly at first to the question, then shuts it down saying focus on Haleigh. But his eyes are closed, then open again. Then he's asked about a message for whoever has Haleigh and we get the odd property comment.

Because of the sun squinting going on, it's once again difficult to see whether he has "lying eyes" but I'll refer once again to my flippant remark above and say I was too busy watching his lips lie to tell whether his eyes are.

Now I'm gonna watch it again for Teresa's......brb again

Yep... that's it... right there. You are good at this.

 

[blazeofglory]

i understand the eyes for lies theory but what did it for me from the very begininng was the over interating of the same stories. no short answers to anything only a bunch of details..and i think all the players gave alot of detail and sometimes asked a question and answered it themselves.which leaves me believing rcs still lieing and so are all the others..