Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #5

[The_Axis]

Really what we know, other than the fact that there's a familial connection and his truck was nearby, what else do they have on DG that they aren't telling us? I worry either they are barking up the wrong tree...for lack of other leads to follow...or this man has simply managed to cover his tracks.

This case is SO bizarre...motives seem entirely elusive but i bet money is somewhere in there.

 

[Cherchri]

I wonder when Allen and PG got together. Allen and FL owned and operated a modular home business in Evansburg since 1996 and their son LL joined 2012 (but the article doesn't say if Allen and FL were still together in 2012 though).

According to this article, Allen and FL still owned the business in 2014:

http://www.castle.ca/downloads/PR_Jan14_2014-New_Member_Announcement.pdf

So, when did PG come into Allen's life, or is FL another sister of DG's?

It's a bit confusing SillyBilly. AL has a twin Allen and a son Allen. It's the son who is with PG

 

[otto]

I get the massive search. There are three missing persons, one being a child. It's the way police roll in these types of situations. What I don't get is what appears to be the lack of evidence and three people that are still missing.

Police must have evidence from the crime scene, the truck, and the property. Whether it leads to the location of the missing family remains to be seen. Police have asked the public for help throughout this investigation, and it sounds like tips have helped move the investigation forward. I think what people don't like is that police obtain information from the public, but do not provide information to the public unless it is necessary for obtaining information (eg: truck photo).

 

[Sillybilly]

Hi all ... I've been following this bizarre case since the beginning & knew the amazing people on Websleuths would be on top of the intricacies of the case!

Just watched the presser and I thought I heard one of the spokespeople refer to 'the missing' as 'victims' ... that didn't sound right somehow. I'm gonna go & see if I can find it somehow.

Abducted children / missing people (and their families by association) are all considered victims.

ETA: i.e. if you are robbed, you are considered a "victim" of a robbery even though you are alive.

 

[skibaboo]

Missed the presser because of the world cup, marking my spot whilst I catch up.

 

[Carol]

Today, 03:36 PM #926
supernovaNic

I transcribed part of it:
We spoke to Allen Liknes who is the son of the missing Alvin Liknes. He is married to Garland's sister, and so he told us today on the phone that he was surprised the family was to see Garland's ... green pickup or what appeared to be his pickup in the pictures last Friday. He doesn't believe Doulgas Garland and his father, Alvin, have spoken in about seven years. ...

This bolsters the idea that the family might not have known about LE's truck lead before the photo and appeal to the public was published. It's quite possible that upon publishing it a family member said "Hey I know that truck" which effectively became the "tip".

 

[peony27]

This bolsters the idea that the family might not have known about LE's truck lead before the photo and appeal to the public was published. It's quite possible that upon publishing it a family member said "Hey I know that truck" which effectively became the "tip".

This was what I was thinking, or they only showed JO and RO, and they did not recognize it. (Thinking this had more to do with NO than the grandparents).

 

[Carol]

Early in this mystery there was a strange separation in the messaging between Alvin and Kathryn Liknes, things like how the public was asked to look for young Nathan possibly in the company of his grandfather. Why was the grandfather getting more of the emphasis?

 

[appletree729]

Are they still searching at any of those areas now? Yesterday, it seemed like we had tweets every couple of minutes from the press, giving accounts of what LE was doing… photos of searches, etc. Haven't seen any of that today, at least with the intensity of yesterday…

Sorry if I missed something - these threads are moving so fast I can't keep up!!

 

[Carol]

It is safe bet to say at this point, that LE has video evidence of all 3 victims being taken against their will from their home, given the statements LE has made regarding not knowing if it was blood that was found, whose blood etc., we can "rule out" the "substance" found as evidence of them being removed against their will.

Evidence is evidence. That's what they said. LE said "all 3".

I'm not sure I agree that they have a video of the victims being marched out of the house. I think LE knows whether or not blood was found, but they are being deliberately vague.

 

[Carol]

Just jumping off your post...

I pulled up this article from June 3rd that IMO indicates LE has more footage of the Green truck (and, hopefully, the activities of the driver)...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...lice-1.2695310

NATHAN O'BRIEN AMBER ALERT CASE 'LESS OF A MYSTERY' SAY POLICE

"We've obtained video and film from both neighbors' homes and businesses in the area."

I'm skeptical of the word "film" as that would seem most unlikely. Maybe LE rep meant to say "footage" or something, but not specifically film.

On the other hand, Calgary does rely extensively on camera-based traffic enforcement which I think may use film to shoot photographs of vehicles running red lights or speeding. So maybe that is the "film" that he is speaking about? But he mentions the video and film are from "homes and businesses", neither of which are hosts for traffic enforcement cameras.

 

[peony27]

Are they still searching at any of those areas now? Yesterday, it seemed like we had tweets every couple of minutes from the press, giving accounts of what LE was doing… photos of searches, etc. Haven't seen any of that today, at least with the intensity of yesterday…

Sorry if I missed something - these threads are moving so fast I can't keep up!!

They are still searching. They are not sure for how long, they said something about how ever long it takes .

 

[*Laura]

IMO the police have way more information than they are letting on. There's something in the footage they aren't sharing. In order to obtain a search Warrent in canada you have to have reasonable grounds to believe an offence took place and reason to believe evidence of the crime is at that location. I don't believe LE could convince a judge to sign off on an information to obtain a search Warrent with the only grounds being a green truck drove around the subdivision where the individuals went missing.

Nothing was ever said about AL's truck. I thought I read it had muddy tires and was taken in for evidence?? Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Carol]

I think the medical distress reflects the amount of blood that was at the scene. Now who's blood is it? It doesn't take long to do blood typing but it takes a while to electrophoresis. They could have quickly had a good idea about how many victims based on different blood types.

I'm assuming everyone here realizes that forensic work doesn't happen like C.S.I., in Canada there's a backlog and it can take weeks or months for careful forensic work to be assigned and completed.

However I can imagine a scenario where time is of the essence if there's a reason to assume the missing are still alive, urgency could be brought to at least test for enough gene markers. From gender and given the accessibility of the blood relatives, LE could theoretically have very strong indications already as to whose blood was found.

This is pure speculation to create an example, but if they for example found a significant amount of blood, determined it was female, could they have theorized that KL was seriously wounded and AL is on the run with NO? I'm not saying that's *my* theory, just that it sort of fits with the initial messaging.

 

[Carol]

IMO the police have way more information than they are letting on. There's something in the footage they aren't sharing. In order to obtain a search Warrent in canada you have to have reasonable grounds to believe an offence took place and reason to believe evidence of the crime is at that location. I don't believe LE could convince a judge to sign off on an information to obtain a search Warrent with the only grounds being a green truck drove around the subdivision where the individuals went missing.

Good points, but if you add the concept that property has a family connection and is a known residence of an offender, and there's missing persons in need of urgent assistance, I'd think a search warrant would be granted.

 

[KMouse]

IMO the police have way more information than they are letting on. There's something in the footage they aren't sharing. In order to obtain a search Warrent in canada you have to have reasonable grounds to believe an offence took place and reason to believe evidence of the crime is at that location. I don't believe LE could convince a judge to sign off on an information to obtain a search Warrent with the only grounds being a green truck drove around the subdivision where the individuals went missing.

Nothing was ever said about AL's truck. I thought I read it had muddy tires and was taken in for evidence?? Correct me if I'm wrong.

You are very right about getting a search warrant. Police have to specify what they are looking for as well. I am guessing that there was the footage of the truck in the area with DG driving it. They got the plate from CCTV which led them to his address. From there they got the warrant looking for the truck and to search the property. You can bet they did at the very least a flyover of the property or did some surveillance to see if he was on the property. They didn't go knock on this guy's door blindly...especially since he could be a triple murder suspect.

 

[peony27]

I'm assuming everyone here realizes that forensic work doesn't happen like C.S.I., in Canada there's a backlog and it can take weeks or months for careful forensic work to be assigned and completed.

However I can imagine a scenario where time is of the essence if there's a reason to assume the missing are still alive, urgency could be brought to at least test for enough gene markers. From gender and given the accessibility of the blood relatives, LE could theoretically have very strong indications already as to whose blood was found.

This is pure speculation to create an example, but if they for example found a significant amount of blood, determined it was female, could they have theorized that KL was seriously wounded and AL is on the run with NO? I'm not saying that's *my* theory, just that it sort of fits with the initial messaging.

Responding to the bold. At the latest press conference they said they had a lab that was working quickly with them on all evidence. They have already received some back. I am assuming the evidence in the house would be the first to come back. So if it is blood they probably know who's it was.

 

[*Laura]

Good points, but if you add the concept that property has a family connection and is a known residence of a convict, and there's missing persons in need of urgent assistance, I'd think a search warrant would be granted.

It's a pretty extensive search. Even with a family connection and his drug offence and identity theft it seems a bit much. Especially if they aren't finding anything. Have they even confirmed this is the same truck?)

 

[appletree729]

They are still searching. They are not sure for how long, they said something about how ever long it takes .

But why virtually no media coverage/tweets today like there were yesterday? They were all over every move yesterday… or maybe it's just that our websleuthers are not reposting them today for some reason…

 

[peony27]

But why virtually no media coverage/tweets today like there were yesterday? They were all over every move yesterday… or maybe it's just that our websleuthers are not reposting them today for some reason…

There are still tweets about the searches but not as many. I think a lot of the attention yesterday was because they had to search the water and there was a lot of activity because of it (boats being brought in and what not). They are continuing to search the fields today in the surrounding area, but a lot of the media tweets are still about the press conference.