Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #4

[Grey-St]

I think they have to guard to ensure the integrity of the crimescene - if they release the home, and then the hired investigators subsequently claim they found something to implicate someone - why didn't the TPS find same thing? They could be erasing any possibility of any other parties gaining access and depositing something into the crimescene, as well as letting it be known publicly that there can't be any of that, later. Butt covering. jmo. Interesting however, that they can't farm it out to a security firm?

Yes, I would agree, officers are there round the clock to ensure the integrity of the crime scene, not to guard paintings.

For one, they need to be as thorough as possible because they know private investigators will be doing the same. How silly would it look if they uncovered something missed by LE? It would be nice if all cases were under this much scrutiny, or if LE naturally desired to investigate this meticulously. They shouldn't have to be pressured.

Secondly, all of the GTA, Canada and then some, is now aware that the Sherman's mansion is empty and the owners deceased. They really don't need a break and enter to compromise their crime scene, either.

 

[Tortoise]

Maybe they're waiting for the snow to melt, to see if there is anything relevant on the ground.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I remember this case, and it was so very strange.

I know this is off topic, and I apologize, but do you know if TK concluded anything differently than LE in regards to JB's death? Or if he uncovered anything compelling along the way?

Regardless, thanks for the information. That's useful to know how differently LE and PI's investigate and share with the family.

Klatt participated in an Investigation Discovery show about the case: http://crimefeed.com/2014/06/last-seen-alive-4/

The specific jacket we were told (by Mrs. Boucher) JB had likely been wearing was in fact in one of his work lockers the entire time- but I don't know how that was discovered or who was the keeper of that information. Some of us searching felt a bit misled by the mis-information.

I haven't seen the show I linked above, he may have found new information. 'ABro' Ann Broklehurst wrote an e-book about it, she might know more about it.

**sorry for going OT, but Tom Klatt is linked to this case and to the Sherman case.

 

[AddyFinch]

Yes, it was a bit strange. Just glad they finally found him. I wonder how the Mrs and girls are doing these days?
As to Mr Klatt... maybe the PSB should offer him a temp consulting job to investigate these missing men and murders in the Village??

 

[JDG]

Maybe they're waiting for the snow to melt, to see if there is anything relevant on the ground.

All of the snow was washed away overnight, they had this morning and a bit of the afternoon to check lawns etc. Then, the snow returned about 1pm. Yesterday was warm and rainy......took care of the dirty snowbanks.

 

[deugirtni]

Yes, I would agree, officers are there round the clock to ensure the integrity of the crime scene, not to guard paintings.

For one, they need to be as thorough as possible because they know private investigators will be doing the same. How silly would it look if they uncovered something missed by LE? It would be nice if all cases were under this much scrutiny, or if LE naturally desired to investigate this meticulously. They shouldn't have to be pressured.

Secondly, all of the GTA, Canada and then some, is now aware that the Sherman's mansion is empty and the owners deceased. They really don't need a break and enter to compromise their crime scene, either.

If police did their thing and completed their responsibilities as far as investigating the crime scene(s), and then subsequently released the home to... whomever (the executors?? the family??), then wouldn't it be on the family to ensure that the home was secured so that break-ins couldn't happen, and paintings couldn't be stolen?

I do find it interesting in regard to the timing of these 'suspicious deaths', in relation to the home having been recently listed for sale. If one had many enemies, then what perfect timing to stage deaths to look like something else. Potentially all kinds of people with knowledge of a code to unlock the home at any time? And perhaps just knowing something like that kind of opportunity might exist, would that potentially take any focus away from thinking about other things, like perhaps personal vendettas, etc?

 

[Padron18]

If, this was a Double Homicide, I would be Checking up and down the Streets of their Residence to see Which Home's Have CCR. More than Normal this day and time Home Owners have Security Systems on their Homes.With him being the 15th Wealthiest man in Canada, you would figure they had a Security System. So that leads me to believe it had to do with someone he worked with that possibly had a stake in the Company or Possibly a Very Disgruntled Child. Usually it goes one way or the either.

 

[Padron18]

I will say this about a person who Kills, when I was in School our Professor who was a retired FBI Agent who did Behavior Analysis took us to a Prison to Interview and interact with a Serial Killer. This Guy was like your neighbor, he was cool, Collective and smiled while he was thinking about cutting our throats just to add too his number of victims, but yet he could work up a Tear just for our Show. This Guy Scared us all to know that there could be a person like that. So don't buy into this Kids actions until it's all said and Finished.

 

[Padron18]

I could try to be funny here, by saying...."after 45 years do you need to ask"?? But I'll hold back
Guess it all depends on love, respect, patience, rage, attitude of wanting to take the spouse with you if you no longer wish to go on, jealousy??
I'm married past 45 yrs, and love my spouse, but could see me being guilty of any of the above emotions, but thankfully (more so by him) something prevents us from acting on these emotions.

I've seen where a Man and Woman owned a Great little Business together, but one evening he snapped and shot her then turned it on himself. Later we would find out that he was Bi-Polar and he had stopped taking his Meds. So that goes to show you it can and will again happen. They were the most Loving Couple, even my own Wife knew them both personally.

 

[Grey-St]

If police did their thing and completed their responsibilities as far as investigating the crime scene(s), and then subsequently released the home to... whomever (the executors?? the family??), then wouldn't it be on the family to ensure that the home was secured so that break-ins couldn't happen, and paintings couldn't be stolen?

I do find it interesting in regard to the timing of these 'suspicious deaths', in relation to the home having been recently listed for sale. If one had many enemies, then what perfect timing to stage deaths to look like something else. Potentially all kinds of people with knowledge of a code to unlock the home at any time? And perhaps just knowing something like that kind of opportunity might exist, would that potentially take any focus away from thinking about other things, like perhaps personal vendettas, etc?

Yes, at that point it would be the responsibility of the family. I'm talking about right now, however. It's an empty house, but an active crime scene. Nothing can compromise that crime scene before an investigation is complete. No one cares about the paintings.

 

[Padron18]

I don't view police reporting on a crime scene, and communicating information about a murder, leaking. When there is a murder, and there was at least one murder in the Sherman deaths (based on what police have said), police have a responsibility to release that information to the public as soon as possible.

Hi Dotr,

Great questions!

Initially, I couldn't understand why, if someone was to commit murder-suicide, would they "display" their bodies in such a horrible manner. My first thought was - what if one of their children discovered them? Double Murder to look like Murder-Suicide

Then I read about persons who could have felt enough "hate" and "revenge" to do this. Relatives? Business partners with strong ties to Sicilian mafia? Other business associates? Professional hit? Double Murder

Then I learned more about Barry Sherman's view on life - and realized that we never really know a person's mindset. There could have been a long fuse and it blew. This is a possibility. Murder-Suicide.

Posters were helpful to share the Stats of hanging in Canada. Then a poster showed Stats in Canada for seniors who have murder-suicided. Murder-Suicide

Then I have read so many articles concerning Teva and other companies who would despise Sherman and Apotex. Double Murder

Lobbying issues, strong arming politicians- there are many news stories - some from 2006 up until the current investigation and they are contentious! Double Murder

A professional hit paid by anyone who had enough money to hire the best to make it look inconclusive. Double Murder

Then the Order of Canada issue. Did the knowledge of receiving the Order of Canada, whilst knowing something untoward would soon turn up, motivate B.S. to carry this out to make it look like murder? Murder-Suicide



I have hopped back and forth over the fence so many times I am tired. Tired and even more perplexed!

Make room for me on that fence Grey-St. I'm staying on the fence.

I heard you mention below that, The Children hired their Own Pathologist to perform the Autopsy on both Parents..Is this part Correct?

 

[Grey-St]

If, this was a Double Homicide, I would be Checking up and down the Streets of their Residence to see Which Home's Have CCR. More than Normal this day and time Home Owners have Security Systems on their Homes.With him being the 15th Wealthiest man in Canada, you would figure they had a Security System. So that leads me to believe it had to do with someone he worked with that possibly had a stake in the Company or Possibly a Very Disgruntled Child. Usually it goes one way or the either.

How exactly does someone having a security system or not, lead you to believe it had to do with someone he worked with or a very disgruntled child?

 

[Grey-St]

I will say this about a person who Kills, when I was in School our Professor who was a retired FBI Agent who did Behavior Analysis took us to a Prison to Interview and interact with a Serial Killer. This Guy was like your neighbor, he was cool, Collective and smiled while he was thinking about cutting our throats just to add too his number of victims, but yet he could work up a Tear just for our Show. This Guy Scared us all to know that there could be a person like that. So don't buy into this Kids actions until it's all said and Finished.

What kid? Don't buy into who's actions?

 

[Grey-St]

I don't view police reporting on a crime scene, and communicating information about a murder, leaking. When there is a murder, and there was at least one murder in the Sherman deaths (based on what police have said), police have a responsibility to release that information to the public as soon as possible.

I don't know how I missed this comments, but yes otto, if it wasn't a statement made by police, it's a leaked theory. Based on what police have said? Police have said nothing regarding MOD.

The police did not directly make a statement of murder-suicide.

The Toronto Sun stated (Dec. 16th) that a "source" told them that the T.P.S. were viewing this as a murder-suicide.

We know nothing about this source and it doesn't lead to any police officer's name.

The "source" could have been mistaken, given wrong information and overheard part of a discussion. The "source" could be a reporter for the Sun. The "source" could be anyone. The "source" could have lied to the Toronto Sun, for all we know.

The "leak" came from the Toronto Sun - not the police. This has not been proven otherwise.

Yes, this. I get it though, leaks happen. I don't necessarily fault TPS for possibly interpreting the scene upon entry as a murder-suicide, but notice they weren't the ones to put that theory forward? They have not determined MOD, they are still investigating. It's concerning that some people don't grasp that.

 

[JDG]

I think they have to guard to ensure the integrity of the crimescene - if they release the home, and then the hired investigators subsequently claim they found something to implicate someone - why didn't the TPS find same thing? They could be erasing any possibility of any other parties gaining access and depositing something into the crimescene, as well as letting it be known publicly that there can't be any of that, later. Butt covering. jmo. Interesting however, that they can't farm it out to a security firm?

I get your point but why would the TPS ever consider handing a crime scene over to a security firm?? Can you please tell us how continuing a complex investigation is butt covering? This is possibly the most complex case the TPS have ever handled and they have a lot of murders, suicides and so on. IMO

It could take a year or so to follow every rabbit hole as someone called them. IMO

 

[JDG]

Now that the pressure is on not to simply dismiss it as a simple murder suicide, maybe they're still investigating the crime scene. At least they have to keep up the pretense. If they took down the police tapes and left the house, perhaps the family PIs would get access and start their own investigation inside. Also, if they abandoned investigation at the house, the public would expect a statement why. While LE is still investigating, they're not obliged to release any information.

The police do not owe the public any kind of explanation. They will say something along the lines of 'the case has been closed', 'its an ongoing investigation' or something similar.

The family MAY be told some information but they will also have the right to privacy if certain things prove to be true.

I doubt its a 'pretense', its an ongoing investigation. At this point, I would guess they have information that requires further checking. IMO

We, as a society, have become used to Law and Order etc where everything is wrapped up within the hour but real life is not that easy.

Whats that phrase, its kinda complicated.

 

[JDG]

If police did their thing and completed their responsibilities as far as investigating the crime scene(s), and then subsequently released the home to... whomever (the executors?? the family??), then wouldn't it be on the family to ensure that the home was secured so that break-ins couldn't happen, and paintings couldn't be stolen?

I do find it interesting in regard to the timing of these 'suspicious deaths', in relation to the home having been recently listed for sale. If one had many enemies, then what perfect timing to stage deaths to look like something else. Potentially all kinds of people with knowledge of a code to unlock the home at any time? And perhaps just knowing something like that kind of opportunity might exist, would that potentially take any focus away from thinking about other things, like perhaps personal vendettas, etc?

But the side door was left unlocked and pretty much everyone in their circle knew it. You could be right but access to the home was never a problem. Its linked on the older threads.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I heard you mention below that, The Children hired their Own Pathologist to perform the Autopsy on both Parents..Is this part Correct?

Not the OP, but yes, they did.

 

[ldlager]

I don't know how I missed this comments, but yes otto, if it wasn't a statement made by police, it's a leaked theory. Based on what police have said? Police have said nothing regarding MOD.


Yes, this. I get it though, leaks happen. I don't necessarily fault TPS for possibly interpreting the scene upon entry as a murder-suicide, but notice they weren't the ones to put that theory forward? They have not determined MOD, they are still investigating. It's concerning that some people don't grasp that.

Or, they have determined the MOD and are simply gathering and documenting additional corroborating evidence.

I have previously posted hypothetical reasons
to justify a conclusion of a murder suicide. For those who believe this is a double murder, I would be interested in your views on who you think are the most likely suspects, and your thoughts on the odds of each party having committed or caused this crime.

 

[JDG]

Or, they have determined the MOD and are simply gathering and documenting additional corroborating evidence.

I have previously posted hypothetical reasons
to justify a conclusion of a murder suicide. For those who believe this is a double murder, I would be interested in your views on who you think are the most likely suspects, and your thoughts on the odds of each party having committed or caused this crime.

This is just my opinion. I feel that when two people have been killed in such a grotesque way, there are many family members who are grief stricken and horrified, it may be better to let the police get on with it.

For us to act like its a game of Clue, just seems wrong to me, on so many levels. Imagine if this was YOUR family??

Someone YOU loved? I think we can surmise and sleuth about anything that is MSM but beyond that, IMO, its not the thing to do. IMO

I could be wrong but its how I feel.