CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #23

[fadedglitter]

It’s well known that Apotex was in the lawsuit business. This is just one of many.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Is this of any consequence?

https://kmlaw.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/Reasons_for_Decision_Certification_Phase_1_.Jurisdiction.Strike_Perell_J_December_1_2023.pdf

''CITATION: Gebien v. Apotex Inc''
''[1] In the misogynistic Greek creation myth of Pandora’s Box, the cause of evil, including plagues innumerable, is attributed to the deceitfulness of Pandora who opened a box and released around the world countless illnesses and miseries. In this proposed Pandora’s Box of a class action, the opioid epidemic, an epidemic that has caused widespread pain, misery, and death around the world, is attributed to the deceitfulness and avarice of the Defendants who manufactured and distributed Opioids''

''[53] Thus, Dr. Gebien seeks to represent a class of all persons in Canada who were prescribed Opioids manufactured, marketed, or distributed by the Defendants from January 1, 1996 to the present day and who suffer or have suffered from Opioid Use Disorder.[54] “Opioid Use Disorder” means use of Opioids resulting in: (a) giving up important social occupation or recreational activities; (b) persistent desire or unsuccessful efforts to reduce Opioid use; (c) failure to fulfill occupational, scholastics or home life obligations; (d) persistent or recurrent social or interpersonal problems; (e) impairment in physically hazardous situations;(f) drug tolerance requiring use of larger amounts of Opioids than intended; (g) a persistent or recurrent physical or psychological problems; or (h) Opioid withdrawal syndrome''

“The class action period begins in 1996, when Purdue Pharma first introduced OxyContin to the Canadian market. The lawsuit claims pharmacy owners should have known the quantities of opioids they were distributing exceeded any legitimate market, and that makers and distributors downplayed the harmful effects of the painkillers, as well as misrepresented the risk of addiction and failed to mention side effects and withdrawal symptoms.”

B.C.’s proposed class-action lawsuit against opioid makers, marketers takes next step | Globalnews.ca

The lawsuit aims to hold more than 40 multinational pharmaceutical companies accountable for allegedly using 'deceptive marketing tactics,' B.C.'s attorney general said.

globalnews.ca

From Chapter 5, (page 76 in the version I have) of KD’s ‘Billionaires Murder’ book:


October, 2017 NY article.

“The Family That Built an Empire of Pain​

The Sackler dynasty’s ruthless marketing of painkillers has generated billions of dollars—and millions of addicts…​

… Through a representative, Sackler declined to speak with me. I contacted a dozen other members of the Sackler family, but none of them would answer questions about OxyContin. Jo Sheldon, a London-based media adviser, called me, and said that she works with some of the Sacklers. (She would not identify which ones.) When I told her that I had questions for the Sacklers, she said that my inquiries would be better directed to Purdue. She said of the Sacklers, “Some of them are still quite involved in Purdue, but some have absolutely nothing to do with it,” apart from depositing checks.
Given the sometimes fractious nature of the Sackler family, it was striking that they were united in their silence on the subject of OxyContin. These were urbane, expensively educated, presumably well-informed people. Could they conceivably be unaware of the accumulated evidence about the tainted origins of their fortune? Did they simply put it out of mind? “Greed can get people to rationalize pretty bad behavior,” Andrew Kolodny had told me. Someone who knows Mortimer, Jr., socially told me, “I think for him, most of the time, he’s just saying, ‘Wow, we’re really rich. It’s f- cool. I don’t really want to think that much about the other side of things.’ ”

The Family That Built an Empire of Pain

The Sackler dynasty’s ruthless marketing of painkillers has generated billions of dollars—and millions of addicts.

www.newyorker.com

 

[FromGermany1]

“The class action period begins in 1996, when Purdue Pharma first introduced OxyContin to the Canadian market. The lawsuit claims pharmacy owners should have known the quantities of opioids they were distributing exceeded any legitimate market, and that makers and distributors downplayed the harmful effects of the painkillers, as well as misrepresented the risk of addiction and failed to mention side effects and withdrawal symptoms.”

B.C.’s proposed class-action lawsuit against opioid makers, marketers takes next step | Globalnews.ca

The lawsuit aims to hold more than 40 multinational pharmaceutical companies accountable for allegedly using 'deceptive marketing tactics,' B.C.'s attorney general said.

globalnews.ca

From Chapter 5, (page 76 in the version I have) of KD’s ‘Billionaires Murder’ book:
View attachment 490954

October, 2017 NY article.

“The Family That Built an Empire of Pain​

The Sackler dynasty’s ruthless marketing of painkillers has generated billions of dollars—and millions of addicts…​

… Through a representative, Sackler declined to speak with me. I contacted a dozen other members of the Sackler family, but none of them would answer questions about OxyContin. Jo Sheldon, a London-based media adviser, called me, and said that she works with some of the Sacklers. (She would not identify which ones.) When I told her that I had questions for the Sacklers, she said that my inquiries would be better directed to Purdue. She said of the Sacklers, “Some of them are still quite involved in Purdue, but some have absolutely nothing to do with it,” apart from depositing checks.
Given the sometimes fractious nature of the Sackler family, it was striking that they were united in their silence on the subject of OxyContin. These were urbane, expensively educated, presumably well-informed people. Could they conceivably be unaware of the accumulated evidence about the tainted origins of their fortune? Did they simply put it out of mind? “Greed can get people to rationalize pretty bad behavior,” Andrew Kolodny had told me. Someone who knows Mortimer, Jr., socially told me, “I think for him, most of the time, he’s just saying, ‘Wow, we’re really rich. It’s f- cool. I don’t really want to think that much about the other side of things.’ ”

The Family That Built an Empire of Pain

The Sackler dynasty’s ruthless marketing of painkillers has generated billions of dollars—and millions of addicts.

www.newyorker.com

Perhaps the construction of a monstrously large private home was the last straw in the eyes of a person, who attributed wealth to the destruction of human life by drugs. MOO So easy, so comprehensibly. (But wouldn't explain, why the estate was sealed ....)

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I understand your points, but you cannot assume that the murderer who planned this is normal in any way, although he/she may have a good facade, if this person is a psychopath, as I strongly suspect, then all bets are off where normal morals and emotions are concerned. Psychopaths are not human in the way you and I are, so it is very hard for us to understand them, but I studied psychology in university, as well as doing research later for some psychiatrists, and having read a good deal about them, I do understand that they cannot be seen as normal humans at all, more like intelligent ruthless predators, who have killer instincts and a level of selfishness, and feelings of superiority, that goes beyond the worst animal predator you can think of. IMO

One possible example of JS’s lack of awareness of how he comes across— JS told KD that PIs had assembled evidence linked to three people close to the case. He had a binder of information and notified Detective Price to pick it up. That didn’t happen for six months. I had the impression that JS was possibly criticizing the slow police response, but to me a reasonable action would have been for JS to do everything in his power to get that to Detective Price immediately.

He seemed unaware of how poorly it reflected on him, imo.

 

[West VA Ghost]

Thank you for quoting all the supporting information.The police would have carefully checked where the belts came from and other details, imo.

It may mean nothing more than it shows the killer was upstairs in their dressing area at some point. I personally think the killer did everything deliberately.

I'm curious why Honeys body was taken down to the swimming pool. Staging obviously played a part in that scenario. If Honey was the intended target ,there was no need to go down stairs and kill Barry. She easily could have been killed and stuffed in a closet. That action would have bought the killer extra time to leave the home. If Barry was the intended target ,he easily could have been targeted after entering the garage. Strangulation is a personal and unpleasant death. Could it be that one of them was forced to watch the death of the other as revenge or punishment. Zip ties would have made that very plausible. Staging the bodies in that area is bizarre. It obviously is intended to have shock value. Especially ,since the zip ties are missing. The staging almost distracted from the murders. Why was the staging done to have so much emotional impact? Why not just shove both of them in a closet ? What was the message being delivered ? While zip tied and being strangled ,there surely was thrashing. Were bruises are marks left on ankles or knees ?

 

[West VA Ghost]

Thank you for quoting all the supporting information.The police would have carefully checked where the belts came from and other details, imo.

It may mean nothing more than it shows the killer was upstairs in their dressing area at some point. I personally think the killer did everything deliberately.

I'm curious why Honeys body was taken down to the swimming pool. Staging obviously played a part in that scenario. If Honey was the intended target ,there was no need to go down stairs and kill Barry. She easily could have been killed and stuffed in a closet. That action would have bought the killer extra time to leave the home. If Barry was the intended target ,he easily could have been targeted after entering the garage. Strangulation is a personal and unpleasant death. Could it be that one of them was forced to watch the death of the other as revenge or punishment. Zip ties would have made that very plausible. Staging the bodies in that area is bizarre. It obviously is intended to have shock value. Especially ,since the zip ties are missing. The staging almost distracted from the murders. Why was the staging done to have so much emotional impact? Why not just shove both of them in a closet ? What was the message being delivered ? While zip tied and being strangled ,there surely was thrashing. Were bruises are marks left on ankles or knees

 

[MerlinFalcon]

I'm curious why Honeys body was taken down to the swimming pool. Staging obviously played a part in that scenario. If Honey was the intended target ,there was no need to go down stairs and kill Barry. She easily could have been killed and stuffed in a closet. That action would have bought the killer extra time to leave the home. If Barry was the intended target ,he easily could have been targeted after entering the garage. Strangulation is a personal and unpleasant death. Could it be that one of them was forced to watch the death of the other as revenge or punishment. Zip ties would have made that very plausible. Staging the bodies in that area is bizarre. It obviously is intended to have shock value. Especially ,since the zip ties are missing. The staging almost distracted from the murders. Why was the staging done to have so much emotional impact? Why not just shove both of them in a closet ? What was the message being delivered ? While zip tied and being strangled ,there surely was thrashing. Were bruises are marks left on ankles or knees

Maybe because the killer knew they had cleaning staff that would have quickly found the body in a closet.

 

[West VA Ghost]

When was Honeys coat placed on her ? In the drawings showed in previous posts ,I don't see their hands restrained in anyway behind them. Why use coats and not tie them back with something else once the zip ties were removed.

 

[fadedglitter]

We do not know whether Honey was “re-dressed” and her coat placed on her. She may not have removed it after she arrived home. Both Shermans had their jackets pulled back off their shoulders, which would tend to hold the arms in position after death.

From Donovan’s reporting:
Barry and Honey Sherman: how the second autopsy revealed it was a double murder
Later in the day, Chiasson looked at the death scene photos Pickup had brought to the autopsy suite. The Shermans were in a seated position, legs outstretched away from the pool, with jackets on but pulled down off the shoulder. A belt was looped around each person’s neck, with the end of each belt fed through the buckle and the end then looped or tied around the metre-high railing they were positioned against.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

We do not know whether Honey was “re-dressed” and her coat placed on her. She may not have removed it after she arrived home. Both Shermans had their jackets pulled back off their shoulders, which would tend to hold the arms in position after death.

From Donovan’s reporting:
Barry and Honey Sherman: how the second autopsy revealed it was a double murder
Later in the day, Chiasson looked at the death scene photos Pickup had brought to the autopsy suite. The Shermans were in a seated position, legs outstretched away from the pool, with jackets on but pulled down off the shoulder. A belt was looped around each person’s neck, with the end of each belt fed through the buckle and the end then looped or tied around the metre-high railing they were positioned against.

That was initially reported, but in more recent articles KD has written that she was found only wearing the blue vest she had on under her coat.

“I countered that it is generally known they were wearing dark coats. (Honey had a blue down vest on under her coat.)”

‘Elephant in the room’ in the Barry and Honey Sherman case

“A person walking in from the lone entry door would have seen Honey at the far end of the pool (40 feet away). Honey was in profile, the left side of her body the first part visible. She is fully dressed, wearing dark pants, a blouse and a blue vest. Her rear end is on the floor, her legs stretched out in front.''

The Star saw the Sherman crime-scene and autopsy photos. How could a pathologist and police call it a murder-suicide?

Photos, notes raise new questions about how investigators made their mistaken determination in the Barry and Honey Sherman case.

www.thestar.com

He said in one of his Q & As that he didn’t notice the coat in any of the crime scene photos. (He also said he didn’t see all of the photos.) So we don’t know where, or if, her coat was found.

 

[HFTSM]

Just re-listened to KD's podcast and a couple of things stick out the second time through:

1) It's been hinted at, and outright stated that KD has a fairly good idea or at least a personal theory of who is responsible. The only person he told his family, lawyer, and editor he was going to interview (in case anything should happen to him) was JS.

2) KD brushes off several persons who all could reasonably be seen as potential suspects without much explanation as to why he's so certain they're uninvolved (e.g. one of the Winter brothers, Shaun Rootenberg, etc.). He never does this with JS, and, if anything, KD gives off the impression of being extremely uncomfortable during his interview with JS.

3) I posted on this thread roughly 1 year ago explaining that I couldn't understand why BS's hands would have been bound while he was still alive and then unbound at some point if the goal was only to end his life. I still think the killer(s) first attempted (either successfully or unsuccessfully) to extract some sort of information from him, or deliver some sort of message to him before he died. As KD said, he was attacked as he entered the house and could have very easily been killed right then, but he wasn't because his hands were bound while he was still alive per the 2nd autopsy.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Just re-listened to KD's podcast and a couple of things stick out the second time through:

1) It's been hinted at, and outright stated that KD has a fairly good idea or at least a personal theory of who is responsible. The only person he told his family, lawyer, and editor he was going to interview (in case anything should happen to him) was JS.

2) KD brushes off several persons who all could reasonably be seen as potential suspects without much explanation as to why he's so certain they're uninvolved (e.g. one of the Winter brothers, Shaun Rootenberg, etc.). He never does this with JS, and, if anything, KD gives off the impression of being extremely uncomfortable during his interview with JS.

3) I posted on this thread roughly 1 year ago explaining that I couldn't understand why BS's hands would have been bound while he was still alive and then unbound at some point if the goal was only to end his life. I still think the killer(s) first attempted (either successfully or unsuccessfully) to extract some sort of information from him, or deliver some sort of message to him before he died. As KD said, he was attacked as he entered the house and could have very easily been killed right then, but he wasn't because his hands were bound while he was still alive per the 2nd autopsy.

That’s a good refresher and interesting part of the podcast. KD also told a police officer and someone connected to the Sherman family that he was going to interview JS. He was warned that Sherman daughter Alex believed JS could be involved.

We’ve heard that Barry showed signs of being restrained by his wrists, but we don’t know what the pathology reports showed. It seems likely he was restrained before death, but we don’t that yet.

 

[FPoulet]

Just re-listened to KD's podcast and a couple of things stick out the second time through:

1) It's been hinted at, and outright stated that KD has a fairly good idea or at least a personal theory of who is responsible. The only person he told his family, lawyer, and editor he was going to interview (in case anything should happen to him) was JS.

2) KD brushes off several persons who all could reasonably be seen as potential suspects without much explanation as to why he's so certain they're uninvolved (e.g. one of the Winter brothers, Shaun Rootenberg, etc.). He never does this with JS, and, if anything, KD gives off the impression of being extremely uncomfortable during his interview with JS.

3) I posted on this thread roughly 1 year ago explaining that I couldn't understand why BS's hands would have been bound while he was still alive and then unbound at some point if the goal was only to end his life. I still think the killer(s) first attempted (either successfully or unsuccessfully) to extract some sort of information from him, or deliver some sort of message to him before he died. As KD said, he was attacked as he entered the house and could have very easily been killed right then, but he wasn't because his hands were bound while he was still alive per the 2nd autopsy.

Welcome back to the thread. Would you please be so kind as to link to your similar post from approximately one year ago, as I can’t find it. Thank you!

 

[FromGermany1]

3) I posted on this thread roughly 1 year ago explaining that I couldn't understand why BS's hands would have been bound while he was still alive and then unbound at some point if the goal was only to end his life. I still think the killer(s) first attempted (either successfully or unsuccessfully) to extract some sort of information from him, or deliver some sort of message to him before he died. As KD said, he was attacked as he entered the house and could have very easily been killed right then, but he wasn't because his hands were bound while he was still alive per the 2nd autopsy.

Because both HS and BS were bound on their wrists before their death, I think, both were forced to listen to some request. Either they should give something to the killer or they should disclose/reveal something. With tied wrists they were still both able to move from A to B in the home, and perhaps it was required to get something for the killer. Maybe, the killer did know, he wouldn't find this document/key/code or whatever by himself and needed "assistance".

If BS was forced to experience the death of his wife, his tied wrists also prevented him to help Honey.

 

[dotr]

Just re-listened to KD's podcast and a couple of things stick out the second time through:

1) It's been hinted at, and outright stated that KD has a fairly good idea or at least a personal theory of who is responsible. The only person he told his family, lawyer, and editor he was going to interview (in case anything should happen to him) was JS.

2) KD brushes off several persons who all could reasonably be seen as potential suspects without much explanation as to why he's so certain they're uninvolved (e.g. one of the Winter brothers, Shaun Rootenberg, etc.). He never does this with JS, and, if anything, KD gives off the impression of being extremely uncomfortable during his interview with JS.

3) I posted on this thread roughly 1 year ago explaining that I couldn't understand why BS's hands would have been bound while he was still alive and then unbound at some point if the goal was only to end his life. I still think the killer(s) first attempted (either successfully or unsuccessfully) to extract some sort of information from him, or deliver some sort of message to him before he died. As KD said, he was attacked as he entered the house and could have very easily been killed right then, but he wasn't because his hands were bound while he was still alive per the 2nd autopsy.

Is this the right post?

• Apr 18, 2023
• Post #439

CANADA - Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered @ Home - Toronto #20

Poor guy in the comments, asked his question a second time because it had not been responded to the first time (was it the only one not responded to?) and then got admonished because the question had already been responded to! 3 hrs ago Hi Kevin...

www.websleuths.com

 

[HFTSM]

Is this the right post?

• Apr 18, 2023
• Post #439

CANADA - Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered @ Home - Toronto #20

Poor guy in the comments, asked his question a second time because it had not been responded to the first time (was it the only one not responded to?) and then got admonished because the question had already been responded to! 3 hrs ago Hi Kevin...

www.websleuths.com

Yup that's the one - my apologies for not linking it to my most recent post where I refer to it!

 

[ldlager]

I feel that except for our discussion here on WS, this case is absolutely dead (no pun intended). No police updates, no KD news, no rewards granted, no WM clues, no nothing. Any police progress? Is anyone doing anything to get justice for the Sherman’s? Very distressing .

 

[hexicon]

Thanks for sharing the posts about wrists being bound premortem, and the possibility that Barry may have been forced to provide the killer with information.

Earlier in this thread I’d raised the entirely speculative possibility that the Shermans kept a large emergency cash supply at their home due to familial history of persecution during the Holocaust and pogroms. Under my hypothetical, the person who commissioned the murders was one of, if not the only, other persons aware of this stash, and this person gave the hired killer information on how to access it, thereby creating a hard-to-trace method of paying the hit man. Depending on how this money was secured, the killer might have needed to get information from one or both of the Shermans. And victims are more likely to cooperate and allow themselves to be bound if they think it’s an ordinary robbery rather than a prospective murder. So that data point may line up with my speculation. Jmo and guesses, of course.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Just re-listened to KD's podcast and a couple of things stick out the second time through:

1) It's been hinted at, and outright stated that KD has a fairly good idea or at least a personal theory of who is responsible. The only person he told his family, lawyer, and editor he was going to interview (in case anything should happen to him) was JS.

2) KD brushes off several persons who all could reasonably be seen as potential suspects without much explanation as to why he's so certain they're uninvolved (e.g. one of the Winter brothers, Shaun Rootenberg, etc.). He never does this with JS, and, if anything, KD gives off the impression of being extremely uncomfortable during his interview with JS.

3) I posted on this thread roughly 1 year ago explaining that I couldn't understand why BS's hands would have been bound while he was still alive and then unbound at some point if the goal was only to end his life. I still think the killer(s) first attempted (either successfully or unsuccessfully) to extract some sort of information from him, or deliver some sort of message to him before he died. As KD said, he was attacked as he entered the house and could have very easily been killed right then, but he wasn't because his hands were bound while he was still alive per the 2nd autopsy.

Your quote: “As KD said, he was attacked as he entered the house and could have very easily been killed right then, but he wasn't because his hands were bound while he was still alive per the 2nd autopsy.”

Can you please provide a link for that information? I’m not aware of any report or part of the podcast that states that we know when the wrist ligatures were applied, only that they had marks on their wrists.

Thanks for sharing the posts about wrists being bound premortem, and the possibility that Barry may have been forced to provide the killer with information.

Earlier in this thread I’d raised the entirely speculative possibility that the Shermans kept a large emergency cash supply at their home due to familial history of persecution during the Holocaust and pogroms. Under my hypothetical, the person who commissioned the murders was one of, if not the only, other persons aware of this stash, and this person gave the hired killer information on how to access it, thereby creating a hard-to-trace method of paying the hit man. Depending on how this money was secured, the killer might have needed to get information from one or both of the Shermans. And victims are more likely to cooperate and allow themselves to be bound if they think it’s an ordinary robbery rather than a prospective murder. So that data point may line up with my speculation. Jmo and guesses, of course.

The provincial pathologist saw marks on the Shermans’ wrists and sent samples to be examined. He showed photos from the first autopsies to the pathologist who did the second autopsies. We don’t know more than that, afaik. We don’t know when the marks were made—although it seems likely they were made prior to death— and we don’t know the exact times of their deaths.

—not to discount your theory. I also believe they were retrained immediately, but I’m just speculating. I know it seems like a small point but it may have been done as a part of staging.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I feel that except for our discussion here on WS, this case is absolutely dead (no pun intended). No police updates, no KD news, no rewards granted, no WM clues, no nothing. Any police progress? Is anyone doing anything to get justice for the Sherman’s? Very distressing .

KD said he had another court date with Detective Yim set after his last one so I think there may be an update soon, imo.

But I agree with you that the case seems to have wound down with no resolution in sight, imo.

Dotr mentioned the dynamics between the people involved and how that may have impacted the investigation and I think that’s an interesting point. I think especially with JS, relationships with people close to the case changed and came under great strain which became public, and may be the reason some information was leaked to KD. I think that will continue, imo.

I couldn’t find a hint that AP may have spoken to the police in the court records we have access to. KD has also said he hasn’t spoken with him. Maybe one day that will change and there will be a breakthrough. (I’m just using him as an example). I think a change in circumstances or relationships might shift the investigation one day.