CANADA Canada - Christine Jessop, 9, Queensville, Ont, 3 Oct 1984 - #1

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Will recap Mistysues - hopefully you will look into it as well.

In 1995 DNA could not be copied. Another test could not be conducted without consuming available samples. There were 3 tests done prior to 1995 albeit inconclusive - why was it necessary to consume more samples if the previous tests were at all useful?

Follow the human genome project. In 1995/96 - before the completion of the human genome project - it was realized very little of our DNA makes us unique. The scramble was on to come up with faster and smaller tests. Those tests became available in 1997 including the ability to copy DNA with absolute exactness.

My goal when researching DNA was the history and the current trend - not just the current trend. It proved quite revealing.
 
Ok, yes I am aware of the restrictions that existed and the human genome project, my family sent away our mouth swabs to that. It was neat. --Anyway back to the subject, I'm not sure what your question is, my point was simply that they do have DNA from the semen and will be able to match it. While the problems with DNA or limitations did exist previously, they no longer do, therefore going forward, to me it seems a moot point. Im not understanding where the DNA talk fits into the current discussion. If a suspect is found they can test it.
 
You have missed something Mistysues - the 1995 DNA profile could not entered into the Canadian National DNA Databank.

That's according to the RCMP. The 1995 profile was generated using an HLA DQ Alpha Amplitype Kit. The RCMP assures me in an e-mail those tests cannot be entered into the DNA databank.

Why not ask them yourself?
 
Mistysues - the article begins in 1985 - I get it.

With your resources kindly check the change over in DNA labs in Canada in early 1997 to late 1997. If you know the history, what was the reason for the change?

Until then, will not entertain this any longer.

Clarification - In 1998 Neale Tweedy claims to be an expert in DNA - what I wanted to know was, what could he have known then. Maybe that's the missing link. What happened subsequently is not relevant to this case.
 
As I was re-reading my word-portrait of Christine Jessop from my last post, I began to imagine the geography of her “world”. The common places she travelled to as part of her daily life. I started to imagine those places as “Spheres of Danger”. Places where, potentially, her killer lurked, or hovered on the peripherals. Places where maybe she had direct interaction with him, or places where he was made aware of her. Places where she came onto his radar – thus putting her in danger.

I created a diagram and put those spheres on it with Christine in the middle.

Each sphere’s size is representative of the amount of danger she’s in when she travels there. For example, the school sphere is small because it’s populated, there are adults there looking out for her well-being, strangers would be a cause for alarm, etc. The Jessop house is a sphere of danger larger than the school because at least one of the Richmond Hill abusers (the younger brother) visited the Jessop house on at least one occasion. Also, the house was a place of business (Jessop Sales) so complete strangers had opportunity to come to the house.

The arrows simply demonstrate or suggest the interconnectivity of the spheres because of the one common denominator: Christine Jessop -- as she travels from sphere to sphere.

But is there other connectivity amongst the spheres that we’re not aware of with our limited information?

I believe, somewhere on this diagram – in one of those spheres -- Christine Jessop either met her killer or interacted with him in some way prior to her abduction –- or, if she wasn’t aware of him -- he was made aware of her -- and began constructing his fantasy to abduct her.

In which sphere(s) did he reside?

I readily admit that this diagram might not mean anything at all. Just a useless mental exercise. But perhaps, at some point, organizing and rearranging our puzzle pieces in a unique way might allow for some kind of discovery or breakthrough?

Food for thought.
 

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When did the abuse involving the boys stop? This has always upset me so much to not want to participate in forums on the case. It's clear to me the motive for her murder was sexual. The perp wanted to rape her and he did and he ravaged her body using brutal violence against her, likely because she was crying and he wanted her to shut up. What happened to this perp? Did he die in jail? Did he move to a different location? The nature of the crime strongly suggests a sadistic perp who would attack other children, most likely little girls.

I constantly return to that question as well. Why did he stop abducting and killing? Did he stop abducting and killing? Most of these guys, once they get a taste for killing, can't stop. So, what happened to him? Where the hell is he...?

I would love to wake up one morning and hear that someone had been arrested and charged with Christine's murder. The nature of the crime is repellent and vile and makes me angry. The fact that this killer is still out there... causes moral revulsion.
 
It's 500 metres from Queensville Public School to the general store and the park is just around the corner from there.

Did Leslie ride her bike? Wonder if Leslie also phoned the Jessop home before going to the park/store to coordinate, in case of a delay etc? Either way, Leslie did travel to and beyond the corner of Leslie St and Queensville SR.
 
I’m just going to throw this out. One word keeps popping up numerous times in regards to Christine. Firehall. Did the Firemen live in the Firehall, meaning did they sleep there? Or were they all volunteer Firemen like Bob Jessop? If the Firemen did not sleep there, was the building empty at night time? Who had keys to get in? We know Bob took Christine a lot to the Firestation.

The Morin’s dog barked at about the time Christine got home. The dog knew Christine because she played with it. Dog’s have different barks for different situation’s. What type of bark was it, a friendly greeting for Christine? Or a bark to warn of a stranger? A pet owner hears their dog bark and knows the different type’s of barks. Ida Morin heard their dog bark, the bark had to have been a different bark from the usual for her to remember that bark and the type of bark.
How did Christine get into the home? Did she have a key to the front door? Or did she open the garage door to enter? And left it open? We know she entered the house because she picked up the mail and left it in the kitchen. Did she then go upstairs to her bedroom and get her doll box preparing herself to go to the park to meet her friend? When she returned to the garage with full intention’s of hoping onto her bike and peddling to the park, did she set the doll box beside the bike on the ledge because there was a visitor standing in the garage and he made his presence known to her at that time? Or did she get on the bike and before she could set the box into her carrier someone made their presence known to her and instead of putting the box into the carrier she set it on the ledge? Christine would have to have been already on the bike to be able to set the box onto the ledge? Why lean over a bike to set a doll box onto a ledge when the bike carrier was closer? Is that how Christine’s bike became damaged? She was surprised, not scared because she knew this man, and jumped and accidently fell off and the bike toppled over? Just putting this scenario out there. Thoughts?
 
I’m just going to throw this out. One word keeps popping up numerous times in regards to Christine. Firehall. Did the Firemen live in the Firehall, meaning did they sleep there? Or were they all volunteer Firemen like Bob Jessop? If the Firemen did not sleep there, was the building empty at night time? Who had keys to get in? We know Bob took Christine a lot to the Firestation.

The Morin’s dog barked at about the time Christine got home. The dog knew Christine because she played with it. Dog’s have different barks for different situation’s. What type of bark was it, a friendly greeting for Christine? Or a bark to warn of a stranger? A pet owner hears their dog bark and knows the different type’s of barks. Ida Morin heard their dog bark, the bark had to have been a different bark from the usual for her to remember that bark and the type of bark.
How did Christine get into the home? Did she have a key to the front door? Or did she open the garage door to enter? And left it open? We know she entered the house because she picked up the mail and left it in the kitchen. Did she then go upstairs to her bedroom and get her doll box preparing herself to go to the park to meet her friend? When she returned to the garage with full intention’s of hoping onto her bike and peddling to the park, did she set the doll box beside the bike on the ledge because there was a visitor standing in the garage and he made his presence known to her at that time? Or did she get on the bike and before she could set the box into her carrier someone made their presence known to her and instead of putting the box into the carrier she set it on the ledge? Christine would have to have been already on the bike to be able to set the box onto the ledge? Why lean over a bike to set a doll box onto a ledge when the bike carrier was closer? Is that how Christine’s bike became damaged? She was surprised, not scared because she knew this man, and jumped and accidently fell off and the bike toppled over? Just putting this scenario out there. Thoughts?

I believe that it was a volunteer fire department. Members would rally there when there was an emergency. I would imagine that no one was in the building at night. Members would have keys to get in.

Good questions about the dog's bark. I don't remember ever reading about anyone interpreting the tone of the Morin's dog's bark. He may have very well been barking at the perpetrator.

It was Christine's habit to enter the house via the shed behind the kitchen. I don't know if she had a key of her own, or, if like many families, a key was hidden there somewhere for her. A key question is: after Christine entered her house, did she lock the door behind her? That leads to another question: did the perpetrator follow her in?

The rest is all fair assumption and filling in the blanks with imagination. I have had the same thoughts.

Do you know anything more about the doll box or doll bin?
Could you also clarify how you know the information about L. Chipman from your last post (if you can)? Thanks.
 
To answer your question Dedpanman I’m not a fan of armchairs. They hurt my back.
For the time being does anyone mind if we stay on the entrance of Christine into the home?
Habits. Everyone has them. Victims have habits. Perps have habits.
In theorizing Christine was used to someone being home when she arrived home from school. (We know Janet worked part time in Sears.) Did Janet not ask the Morin’s to watch out for Christine that day because she thought her and ken would be home before Christine? Or with all that was going on that day in Janet’s life did she forget to ask the Morin’s to watch out for Christine? Only Janet would know the answer to those questions, and of course the Police and anyone else she told, if she told the truth.
Christine being used to someone at home when she returned home from school, what is a child’s reaction to no one being home? Would she call out for her mother? For Ken, she knew her father was not around so she would not call out for him. Which brings us back full circle. Did Janet or Ken mention either the day before or that morning at breakfast that they would be out and about and the where they would be specifically? If they did, would Christine share that information if told that morning? Who would she tell? Her school mates? Her teachers? She rode the bus so she ate her lunch at school. Did she talk to any one other than her school mates and teachers outside of school as in recess, after lunch, as in an unknown male on the school property? She didn’t talk to any one other than Leslie while waiting for the school bus. In every group of children there is a quiet, observant, thoughtful child. Who on that bus quietly watched Christine walk away from it towards her house? And did that child’s eyes move from Christine towards Christine’s house? What did that child see and then kept quiet about out of fear?
How would Christine get her bike from the garage to the outside? Through the garage door? Did she know how to open the garage door? Was she strong enough to open the garage door? Or through the back entrance, near the shed? Would she and her bike fit through the doorway?
How did she get into the house? Was the door left unlocked for her? Why would Christine lock the door behind her? Habits. She would not if she expected someone home. She would unlock the door, if need be, open the door holler that she was home, set the mail on the counter. Was it Christine’s habit to rummage around for something to eat and drink when she got home? Or was there generally, someone home who would make her a snack or have a snack waiting for her? Children are in the moment. Christine’s mind would be on collecting her doll(s) and hoping on her bike to get to the park (unless of course as theorized, she found money to buy gum, she would then hunt around for money, ((have a snack and something to drink?)) put her dolls into her carrier, set off for the store, buy gum and carry on to the park where her friend was waiting. IMO Christine was interrupted, or the perp showed himself inside the garage. The garage door was closed? Did the perp see Christine walk toward the house? Did the perp not see any vehicle in the driveway? And took his chance? He would have to avoid the Morin house, and their dog? What about Christine’s dog? Was it friendly? Or would it also bark at a stranger? I think any dog would bark and set up a ruckus if the dog knew that it’s owner, or a family member was in trouble. Dogs are pretty loyal animals and if there was a struggle my thought is that Freckles would go for any one man-handling Christine. The Morin’s never mentioned hearing Christine’s dog making a ruckus. So IMO Christine knew this person and for whatever reason went willingly with the perp.
Anyone have any thoughts? Anything to add, take away?
 
Thankyou, I think it best I do go though. If the conversation bogs down and gets sidetracked by issues irrelevant to Christine, neither she nor anyone else on here is served well by that. I don't have any personal insights or know any more than anyone else. I was so encouraged to see people discussing every aspect in depth and even more so when Mrs. came on and told us about Christine's friend Leslie. The cabbage patch controversy even got straightened out.
I want to see that sort of thing continue. Hopefully whatever the cause of the distraction will end here.
Please carry on all..

Please don't leave orora, I'm interested in what you have to say.
 
I agree with the recent questions/thoughts - was Christine interrupted when she arrived home? If so, did she know the person?

There is little, if any, sign of a struggle - only the bike inside the shed with minor damage. If there was a struggle, it's difficult to imagine the recorder not being dropped - why would an abductor stop to pick it up? If Christine willingly walked to a vehicle with some sort of lure then it follows the recorder went with her if she was holding it at the time someone came in or was in the house.

I'm curious mrs about the line - (paraphrasing) a curious child on the bus possibly noticing someone when Christine reached her driveway. Were you wondering if a child saw someone that day and didn't realize what they were seeing? It's a long driveway and how would a child know a man should not be there at that time?
 
In terms of our Victimology topic, I thought it might be useful to remind readers what that is in order to help focus our discussions because I think we’re wandering a little bit into other topics (and that’s fine, so maybe we’re done with victimology for the time being and people would like to move on to Filter #2 – Initial Contact Site?)

Anyway, I’m not quite ready to move on and have a few last things to say (or, just further questions to raise that people could weigh in on) in this discussion of Christine Jessop as “victim”. So, to recap, there are the 10 Filters of Cold Case Anyalysis. Filter#1 is Victimology:

The key to crime analysis is victimology—the study of the victim. By examining who the victim is, we begin to unravel and eliminate an often perplexing web of misguided leads. A thorough understanding of the victim can often lead the investigation toward a probable suspect rather than to a reaction to an endless pool of less likely possible candidates. According to the Crime Classification Manual, written by the FBI:

Victimology is often one of the most beneficial investigative tools in classifying and solving a violent crime. It is a crucial part of crime analysis. Through it the investigator tries to evaluate why this particular person was targeted for a violent crime. Very often, just answering this question will lead to the offender. Victimology is an essential step in arriving at a possible motive. If investigators fail to obtain complete victim histories, they may be overlooking information that could quickly direct their investigations to motive and to suspects.


And just for reference, the other nine filters are:

2 - INITIAL CONTACT SITE
3 - CRIME SCENE
4 - DISPOSAL SITE
5 - PHYSICAL ASSAULT
6 - SEXUAL ASSAULT
7 - M.O. and SIGNATURE
8 - ORGANIZED versus DISORGANIZED
9 - OFFENDER RISK
10 - SUSPECT INFORMATION

Obviously, the nature of a thread discussion tends to jump all over the place, but maybe this could help us move through the information in a more organized way? We don’t have to follow this, but I’m just saying it might be useful.

I know some of these topics have been thoroughly examined on this thread already (and over at UC as well) but we can revisit them and build on them.

So, back to Victimology for a second. I suspect that we all agree that in terms of a victim for this type of heinous crime – Christine was tailor-made. I know that sounds awful to say, but let’s just be clinical for a moment. (And I want to be absolutely clear – I am in no way implying that any of this was her fault.) She had already been victimized in a sexual way before arriving in Queensville. Once there, she had freedom to travel alone around the village without adult supervision. She apparently would or could stay quite late in the park on her own with groups of boys. She had freedom to roam and play in the cemetery where a sexual deviant worked (more on him later – perhaps Filter#10 – Suspect Information). She frequented the fire hall with her father (which was, probably, at that time, an all-male environment). Etc.

So, out of this victim-picture, I’d like to pose a question for discussion (if I may):

Do you think that if Christine had never been sexually exploited before the family’s move to Queensville, this crime would have occurred?

The answer(s) to that question (both yes or no) are potentially powerful lines of thought. To phrase the question another way: Did her sexual exploitation put her at a higher risk, and if so, why? How?

Perhaps exploring these questions might open up new avenues of thought for how she came into her killer’s “sphere”?
 
Good question Dedpanman. Being a non-expert in this area myself, my only thought in this area has ever been - did C ever respond, in a subtle way, to any attention shown her by someone possibly 'grooming' her? An unknowing response due to what she had experienced? Was it subtle enough her parents did not notice something in her manner that should not have been there?
 
Impressive powerful writing in post #327 orora.

In regards to Woodlands post #328. There you have it. The recorder. Christine did not lay the recorder down next to the mail to leave it there to show a family member when they returned home. Why? It was a brand new toy (excuse the word toy, this is a child after all). Because she was taking it along with her doll(s) to the park to show it off and play a few notes on it? How would she carry a recorder and a doll(s)? By her hands, or in the carrier basket attached to her bike? Did Christine lay the recorder down on the counter beside the mail and then enter the Pantry? (Ken did mention that the pantry had been entered) Did Christine enter the pantry to rummage around for something to eat? To do so she would set the recorder down. Did she set the recorder down somewhere to eat, finished eating she picked it back up reading herself for the trip to the park? Did she eat? Have something to drink? Were any dolls found in the kitchen? Not to my knowledge. If this is so then Christine did not have time to fetch her doll(s) from her bedroom, or elsewhere, before the perp made his presence known. Did Christine pick up the recorder from where she had laid it down to show the perp who had entered the house? Or did she already have it in her hand when the perp made his presence known? There was nothing untoward showing that there had been a struggle inside the Kitchen, garage, (except for maybe the damaged bike. Since it is not known whether the bike had damage before Christine went missing. The damage was to the carrier and the kick stand. Also it is mentioned that a person who was over at the house helping in the search for Christine before the police arrived may have picked it up from where it lay on it’s side and set it against the wall where it was found later.) or to any other area of the home.

One has to take into consideration Christine’s character. She was firm in her words to her brother Ken when he teased, bugged, bothered, whatever word you wish to use here, not in a sexual context, so he would leave her alone. So she knew how to stick up for herself, in words. She was kind and compassionate, she had animals, a dog and a frog. She played with dolls and had a girlie room. She didn’t fist fight or pick fights with others her own age. (she was her father’s princess and knew she was a much loved child) She was gregarious, eccentric. She had charm and was used to getting her own way. Her mother allowed her to wear make up. In public? She came and went as she pleased. She injected herself into older girls who were hanging out at the park, without knowing who they were. She was accepted due to her personality and allowed to stay and hang out with them instead of being told to go away. She was a coquette (spelling). She did cartwheels and flips in front of older boys she did not know, at the park, to gain their attention. She would run and fetch baseball’s hit by older boys and throw, toss them back and banter with them. Even though she did not know them. She had been sexually abused so that is not uncommon. All these boys were young men, teenager’s, years older than herself.
 
In regards to Woodlands post #328 I’m not saying that a person on the school bus would know who did or did not belong near or on the Jessop property, or even what vehicles belonged there and what ones did not. What I’m saying is that different aged children rode the school bus and in every group, whether it be adult’s or children, whether it be on a bus, at a party, at a train station, bus station there is always a quiet observant person who notices a lot of stuff going on around them and beyond them. Just the way they are made. Whether the driveway is long or short, doesn’t matter, if someone on the bus looks beyond Christine towards the house, what did the person see? It is the policy of school bus driver’s to drop children off at their designated drop off point. When the child, young teen get’s off the bus they are no longer the responsibility of the school’s. A lot of children, young teens have gone missing while waiting at their school bus pick up spot and after being dropped off. The same applies for a town, city bus, a number of people have gone missing while waiting for a bus, walking towards the bus stop or after they are dropped off and walking home.
Where did Christine sit on the bus? Near the front, middle or back? Generally people getting on a bus, kids are no exception, they pick the same seat = comfort area and habit. Who did she sit with? Different aged children sat on the bus. Did the bus drop Christine off in front of her house? On which side of the road? Did Christine get off the bus and walk straight to her house, or was Christine dropped of on the far side of the road where she had to wait for the bus to move forward before she walked across the road to her home? Depends on the direction the bus was travelling.
 
It is assumed that the perp had a vehicle parked somewhere in the vicinity of the Jessop home. Why? Because of the location of where Christine’s remains were found. A vehicle was required to transport her to that area. Maybe the perp did not have a vehicle near the Jessop home, for a quick get-a-way. Maybe the two of them walked to a place close by? Where the perp’s vehicle was parked?
 
We know that Christine and Ken were sexually abused in Markham, where they lived before moving to Queensville, because Ken was man enough to step up to the plate and speak up and out it became public knowledge. The two boys, brother’s, names who sexually abused Christine and Ken in the basement of the Jessop’s Markham home have been published so I have no problem writing the offender’s names here if other’s so desire it.
Here are two brother’s sexually abusing/molesting a young female, 5 years old and her older brother with Ken being talked into, coerced into sexual activities with his younger sister by these two boys. Ken is adopted, and I realize for a lot of people it doesn’t matter whether Ken is adopted or not. We are not here to judge or be nasty towards a person who was victimized. What’s done is done. Where did these two brother’s learn how to be sexually active to such a degree way beyond their years? Were they abused and in turn abused other’s? Sexual curiosity which the brother’s acted upon? In their genetic make-up? Why were they not charged? Is it because of who their Uncle was? A whole thread could be discussed on this aspect alone.
This is the start of the story. Sexual abuse when a toddler.
After the Jessop family moved to Queensville the abuse by the brother’s stopped due to distance. A couple of times the father visited the Jessop’s bringing along the brother’s to visit with Ken while he and his wife visited with the Jessop’s. As per Ken no abuse took place on these Queensland visit’s. However that summer, as per Ken, Christine approached Ken and told him about a male being sexual towards her. Ken told her not to do that anymore because it was wrong. We don’t know Christine’s action’s after Ken’s advice to her. Did she stop, or make the male stop molesting her using words, or avoided this male so she would not be in a position of compromise, to date we don’t know, because no one else has come forward with information about a male sexually abusing Christine during the time she lived in Queensville before she went missing. We do know that Christine was receiving phone calls from a male whom she called, “a weirdo.” She told this to the babysitter when she asked Christine who the male was who phoned her during a time when the babysitter was babysitting Christine at the Jessop home. Christine fluffed it off.
Christine was receiving phone calls from a male at her home.
Christine was sexually active, willingly or not with a male because she spoke to Ken about it.
 
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