Canada - Connor, 6, & Noah Barthe, 4, killed by python, Campbellton, NB, 5 Aug 2013

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And -- the snake had escaped through the vent before.

So when it did so --again-- and then killed two children as a consequence, I am honestly stumped as how anybody could not see Savoie as culpable.

eta: nao, I know you are passionate about snakes. I so appreciate that you advocate for them (I like reptiles, too), and I get what you're saying and why.

But African Rock Pythons -are- 'notoriously aggressive'. They just are - it's a well-known fact that they are not an easy snake to keep, for that reason. Also, this one in particular is said to have been abnormally aggressive even for its species, and this was known among the people who'd handled it.

I don't for a moment think a snake is like a dog, but if I had a snake that big and that aggressive, which had escaped before (as you say 'they remember') and the enclosure had previously proved NOT to be secure, I would NOT choose to leave sleeping children adjacent to it. At the least, for a risk of a nasty bite.

I think the 'homocide' reference in the paper is probably 'negligent'.
 
We have to remember that much of what has been reported -- such as the allegation that the snake had escaped before -- is strictly third-party hearsay, and may or may not be true or relevant.

We have also not heard (and I think this is significant) whether the regulations brought in in 2009 that restricted pythons and other reptiles were retroactive. Remember that when Savoie first acquired the snake from Environment Canada, it was not illegal and no permit was required. Did the 2009 regs require existing owners of that (and other) restricted animals to apply for permits, or were existing owners "grandfathered" as is often the case with animal control regulations?

It may be that the so-called "illegal" reptiles were only illegal if someone tried to acquire them in 2009 or later and we don't yet know whether that is the case here.

A case can probably be made for some kind of negligence charges but more reliable facts are required here.
 
palisadesk said:
We have to remember that much of what has been reported -- such as the allegation that the snake had escaped before -- is strictly third-party hearsay, and may or may not be true or relevant.

We have also not heard (and I think this is significant) whether the regulations brought in in 2009 that restricted pythons and other reptiles were retroactive. Remember that when Savoie first acquired the snake from Environment Canada, it was not illegal and no permit was required. Did the 2009 regs require existing owners of that (and other) restricted animals to apply for permits, or were existing owners "grandfathered" as is often the case with animal control regulations?

It may be that the so-called "illegal" reptiles were only illegal if someone tried to acquire them in 2009 or later and we don't yet know whether that is the case here.

A case can probably be made for some kind of negligence charges but more reliable facts are required here.
Click to expand...

Ahh, a voice of reason. I know that it is so easy for all of us to 'pile on' when a case disturbs us so much. You are right though. We need a proper investigation, and have to be careful not to solely rely on media (fed by ratings) for balanced information.

And, as pythons are front and centre in the news, here is a case that will make you feel sorry for any officers who have a snake phobia, even though it takes place thousands of miles away from New Brunswick.

SPCA seizes 40 pythons from motel in southern Ontario

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/spca-seizes-40-pythons-from-motel-in-southern-ontario-1.1414338
 
Snoopster said:
Ahh, a voice of reason. I know that it is so easy for all of us to 'pile on' when a case disturbs us so much. You are right though. We need a proper investigation, and have to be careful not to solely rely on media (fed by ratings) for balanced information.

And, as pythons are front and centre in the news, here is a case that will make you feel sorry for any officers who have a snake phobia, even though it takes place thousands of miles away from New Brunswick.

SPCA seizes 40 pythons from motel in southern Ontario

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/spca-seizes-40-pythons-from-motel-in-southern-ontario-1.1414338
Click to expand...

And this was in BC, the same day as the Ontario one above:

Almost 50 illegal pythons seized from British Columbia home

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/almost-50-illegal-pythons-seized-from-british-columbia-home-1.1415239

Apparently there were over 100 snakes total but just the illegal ones were seized and destroyed. Seriously, who needs that many snakes?
 
I kind of wish I hadn't gone to the python breeder's web site. If some of those snakes were euthanized that is so depressing. They are so beautiful. I wish people would make sure their operations are legal and not put animals in this position. And I hope every effort was made to find proper homes for them. The ones in the pictures sure don't look like the kinds that are dangerous.
 
reticulated pythons were euthanized, they were not pictured. He is an experianced reptile breeder, he knew the laws, he has caused a problem for lawfull breeders. Reticulated pythons lay between 25-100 per clutch, the age or size of euthanized snakes has not been mentioned. Also the snakes siezed on both the east coast and west coast, are legal in some places in Canada, the east coast ball pythons are a very common snake across canada, you can find them in many pet stores.
 
A reptile store owner under investigation for criminal negligence in the deaths of two boys after a large python escaped its enclosure had blood on his hands and shorts when police arrived at the scene in Campbellton, N.B., according to newly released court documents.

Jean-Claude Savoie was distressed and pacing outside Reptile Ocean on Aug. 5, when he said four-year-old Noah Barthe and his six-year-old brother Connor were dead, police state in the documents.
Click to expand...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/story/2013/08/22/nb-python-campbellton-blood.html
 
I hate saying something before i have read everything but I don't understand how one python killed 2 boys of that age .I mean I know HOW its possible but what i mean is the kids even after the first bite woulda been screaming it takes a minute to coil and squeeze and then why didn't the second boy hear the brother or when he was bit he woulda screamed i am also curious did the snake regurgitate then go after the 2nd boy because thats a big and im sorry for this but thats a big meal they normally wouldn't eat again for a long time unless it felt threatend and regurgatated the meal so it could strike again...
 
I grew up in a mountainous area and almost all of my brothers and sisters had been bitten at one time or another. We saw snakes almost daily, except for winter. We had copperheads, rattlesnakes and cottonmouths among others. FWIW they did attack...we certainly did not attack them unless to fight back. My brother had to kill a copperhead trying to strike at my mother who was in our wellhouse doorway and was holding it off with a garden rake. Its why some of us mountain folk learn to shoot when we're young. JMO
 
Oh YA python dont have fangs instead they have many teeth and they are angled backwords so that if it bit you and u pulled thats when you really do damage and they normally dont go after something unless they know they can eat the whole prey so they must have been or it must have been a big snake a bite would leave alot of blood from many different punctures..
 
so you think the guy murdered 2 children, who had spent the day at his families farm, as they had done before, they slept at his house as they had before, and he used the snake to cover his crime. the childrens mother knew the snake was there, so really is she not the one that is responsible for their safety. jmo i think it was a freak accident. moo
 
nao said:
so you think the guy murdered 2 children, who had spent the day at his families farm, as they had done before, they slept at his house as they had before, and he used the snake to cover his crime. the childrens mother knew the snake was there, so really is she not the one that is responsible for their safety. jmo i think it was a freak accident. moo
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No - I think the snake killed both boys BUT I believe that the owner did not have the snake properly confined, he did not keep the snake well fed and he knew what had happened. IMO the snake was looking for food. Too gross and disturbing to comment beyond that as to what condition at least one of those boys was in when the owner found them.
 
I'm had formed an opinion about this but after reading your comments about the snakes abilitys. Does anyone know how long the mum and zoo owner had been best friends. Im confused about who lived in the flat above the zoo. Where there two units. I think the zoo owners son being in another room could have just splitting them up so they would settle to sleep in his own bed
 
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