CANADA Canada - Elizabeth Bain, 22, Scarborough Ont, 19 June 1990 #1

[JohnPaul]

Could it be possible that EB is also high up, or obscured at the side of a cliff right in the GTA, maybe even the Scarborough Bluffs?

i suppose anything is possible,

however we did search the Scarborough bluffs area quite extensively

 

[JohnPaul]

You say you were very close friends with ebs youngest brother PB, and yet you don't know who found the car

i never said i didn't know, i said i couldn't remember......big difference there, it's not like this happened six months ago

if you do not believe i am who i say i am, then why are you so interested in what i have to say?....and why are you asking me if i have any questions?

once again, you are not making any sense,

Thinking you have some issues you need to deal with there buddy.

really?.....and this is coming from somebody who is now running away from a web forum? :giggle:

See y'all.

See ya :coffeews:



:drama:




.

 

[Woodland]

Ok then, the illogical eyesonly is outta here.

See y'all.

Guessing the dig thing is not a thing anymore?

 

[Woodland]

i never said i didn't know, i said i couldn't remember......big difference there, it's not like this happened six months ago

Snipped by me -

JohnPaul - do you remember anything about digging in the Bain driveway, that started the same day EB disappeared? When this started no one was alerted that EB would not come home again.

That aspect intrigues me to no end. According to all I have read, LE walked past a pile of dirt in the driveway and took a missing persons report for EB (who did not come home all night). Then LE walked back outside, past the pile of dirt to their cruiser - apparently thinking a suicide was involved.

After a day or two of EB missing, Mrs B got family involved (plus RB) to help her finish laying patio stones on top of where she had been digging - apparently she had decided to make a new parking spot in the driveway as everyone in the household had a vehicle by then. What wasn't working for parking?

 

[eyesonly]

Abcde

 

[JohnPaul]

Snipped by me -

JohnPaul - do you remember anything about digging in the Bain driveway, that started the same day EB disappeared? When this started no one was alerted that EB would not come home again.

That aspect intrigues me to no end. According to all I have read, LE walked past a pile of dirt in the driveway and took a missing persons report for EB (who did not come home all night). Then LE walked back outside, past the pile of dirt to their cruiser - apparently thinking a suicide was involved.

After a day or two of EB missing, Mrs B got family involved (plus RB) to help her finish laying patio stones on top of where she had been digging - apparently she had decided to make a new parking spot in the driveway as everyone in the household had a vehicle by then. What wasn't working for parking?

the bains driveway was a double car driveway with an iron gate fence at the end that they could close if they wanted to, the gates were normally open, in all my years visiting i can only recall a few times when these gates were closed, and i would have to park and open them myself, they were never locked,

the driveway could park 4 cars in two rows of two.....maybe more if you squeezed them in,

to the right side of the driveway they had an area built with patio stones where you could park an additional two cars.....this is the area where EB normally parked her car along with her brother MB who had a nissan sports car at the time, i do not recall this area ever changing at all in the years before or after EBs disappearance,

i do not recall any large pile of dirt by the driveway at anytime before, during, or after EBs disappearance,

i can not locate the post right now, however somebody in this thread made some sort of reference regarding the Bains driveway which twigged something in my memory,

i recall the Bains having a very small portion of the driveway repaved....this was not a do it yourself job, it was professionally done.....however i want to make it very clear that i can not remember specifically when this was done.....it could have been before, during, or after EBs disappearance

 

[dotr]

the bains driveway was a double car driveway with an iron gate fence at the end that they could close if they wanted to, the gates were normally open, in all my years visiting i can only recall a few times when these gates were closed, and i would have to park and open them myself, they were never locked,

the driveway could park 4 cars in two rows of two.....maybe more if you squeezed them in,

to the right side of the driveway they had an area built with patio stones where you could park an additional two cars.....this is the area where EB normally parked her car along with her brother MB who had a nissan sports car at the time, i do not recall this area ever changing at all in the years before or after EBs disappearance,

i do not recall any large pile of dirt by the driveway at anytime before, during, or after EBs disappearance,

i can not locate the post right now, however somebody in this thread made some sort of reference regarding the Bains driveway which twigged something in my memory,

i recall the Bains having a very small portion of the driveway repaved....this was not a do it yourself job, it was professionally done.....however i want to make it very clear that i can not remember specifically when this was done.....it could have been before, during, or after EBs disappearance

Was this the post you are referring to?

09-24-2014, 12:11 PM

Snively
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/printthread.php?t=103300&pp=15&page=41
rbbm.
"Snively

Mr. Bain did come back early. I think it was the afternoon she was reported missing.

If she hurt herself there wouldn't be blood smears on the rocker panels.

The driveway is an impossibility. If you have ever dug a big enough hole, when you backfill the area it will show a hump as it is very difficult to properly compact the material to it's original density. It would be noticeable. Now if you placed a body in the hole you would have even more excess dirt and to stop animals from digging up a decomposing body the hole has to be at least 4 feet deep and preferably 6 feet. That's the reason that graves are dug 6 feet deep. To dig a hole of that depth and that size by hand is very difficult. They did not have a backhoe. Between tree roots and difficult soil in the area to dig (lots of rocks and really big ones), along with no backhoe to dig and people would notice a large pile of excess earth fill sitting near a driveway it does not make sense. The driveway had not been paved and still only had the crushed limestone fill at a depth of typical topsoil removal of 6 inches."

 

[Woodland]

the bains driveway was a double car driveway with an iron gate fence at the end that they could close if they wanted to, the gates were normally open, in all my years visiting i can only recall a few times when these gates were closed, and i would have to park and open them myself, they were never locked,

the driveway could park 4 cars in two rows of two.....maybe more if you squeezed them in,

to the right side of the driveway they had an area built with patio stones where you could park an additional two cars.....this is the area where EB normally parked her car along with her brother MB who had a nissan sports car at the time, i do not recall this area ever changing at all in the years before or after EBs disappearance,

i do not recall any large pile of dirt by the driveway at anytime before, during, or after EBs disappearance,

i can not locate the post right now, however somebody in this thread made some sort of reference regarding the Bains driveway which twigged something in my memory,

i recall the Bains having a very small portion of the driveway repaved....this was not a do it yourself job, it was professionally done.....however i want to make it very clear that i can not remember specifically when this was done.....it could have been before, during, or after EBs disappearance

I don't think there was a pile of dirt - iirc from the book (which I do not have at my fingertips now) there were patio stones piled in the driveway, with fresh digging in order to lay the stones.

The patio stones you describe is exactly what the book describes - Mrs B was attempting to lay patio stones down for extra parking as younger brother had just obtained his own vehicle. She was outside prepping this area when EB left. According to her.

 

[Woodland]

Was this the post you are referring to?

09-24-2014, 12:11 PM

Snively
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/printthread.php?t=103300&pp=15&page=41
rbbm.
"Snively

Mr. Bain did come back early. I think it was the afternoon she was reported missing.

If she hurt herself there wouldn't be blood smears on the rocker panels.

The driveway is an impossibility. If you have ever dug a big enough hole, when you backfill the area it will show a hump as it is very difficult to properly compact the material to it's original density. It would be noticeable. Now if you placed a body in the hole you would have even more excess dirt and to stop animals from digging up a decomposing body the hole has to be at least 4 feet deep and preferably 6 feet. That's the reason that graves are dug 6 feet deep. To dig a hole of that depth and that size by hand is very difficult. They did not have a backhoe. Between tree roots and difficult soil in the area to dig (lots of rocks and really big ones), along with no backhoe to dig and people would notice a large pile of excess earth fill sitting near a driveway it does not make sense. The driveway had not been paved and still only had the crushed limestone fill at a depth of typical topsoil removal of 6 inches."

Bolded and underlined by me -

Missed this part at the time - this is exactly what I've wanted to know all along - there is some discussion on this earlier. Just not sure how accurate it is though.

Mr B did arrive back from Florida in the early afternoon from Florida on the day EB was reported missing - Mrs B picked him up at the airport - according to the book, this is when she broke the news to him that E was missing and she had reported it to LE that morning.

Another point surrounding this time frame is, Mrs B started the patio stone project on the day EB went missing (hours before) and wanted it finished by the time Mr B returned the next day. Leaving so little time made no sense to me.

If Mrs B reported EB missing early am on the 20th, and Mr B is returning that afternoon - earlier than planned - when did he change his flight? There is discussion on this earlier.

Mr B returned his rental car to the airport in Florida and stayed the night with a friend the same night EB went missing. Everything indicates this was planned in advance. But if it was early - then when did he make alternate plans for his return and why, if he didn't know EB was missing?

 

[Woodland]

the bains driveway was a double car driveway with an iron gate fence at the end that they could close if they wanted to, the gates were normally open, in all my years visiting i can only recall a few times when these gates were closed, and i would have to park and open them myself, they were never locked,

the driveway could park 4 cars in two rows of two.....maybe more if you squeezed them in,

to the right side of the driveway they had an area built with patio stones where you could park an additional two cars.....this is the area where EB normally parked her car along with her brother MB who had a nissan sports car at the time, i do not recall this area ever changing at all in the years before or after EBs disappearance,

i do not recall any large pile of dirt by the driveway at anytime before, during, or after EBs disappearance,

i can not locate the post right now, however somebody in this thread made some sort of reference regarding the Bains driveway which twigged something in my memory,

i recall the Bains having a very small portion of the driveway repaved....this was not a do it yourself job, it was professionally done.....however i want to make it very clear that i can not remember specifically when this was done.....it could have been before, during, or after EBs disappearance

So Mrs B was adding stones to an area that already had patio stones laid down for parking? It has been mentioned here before that that area was eventually paved over.

 

[JohnPaul]

So Mrs B was adding stones to an area that already had patio stones laid down for parking? It has been mentioned here before that that area was eventually paved over.

i have no memory of this whatsoever,

i do not recall the patio stone parking area ever changing, i also do not recall it ever being paved, unless this was done many years later after i lost contact,

i also do not recall mrs B doing any digging or patio stone work at that time,

i was a very smart kid and im sure i would have noticed this as being somewhat of a red flag, or odd

also, the son (adopted by the bains) who i was friends with PB did 90% of the choirs around the house and yard, mr B was very strict with making sure he did his choirs, i am sure if mrs B was doing a project like this, he would have been helping out, and to my knowledge and memory he was not,

their front yard and house were very close to the street, the bains had a HUGE BACK YARD with a lot of pivacy, i would estimate about 200-300 feet long, and maybe 60-80 feet wide, lots of trees, so it would not make any sense to me to be digging in the front yard

 

[JohnPaul]

You're not alone in that RB's lawyers did pursue MB as a suspect when NS decided to use her platform as a witness at the 1992 to start slagging MB. If you read the transcripts it is clear that NS had some serious latent resentment toward MB and felt he could be quite rude, angry, chauvinistic and inconsiderate. Not smart for any defence lawyer to insinuate that the victim's brother might have been involved but the fact remains that as unlikely as it is there is still no definitive proof as to his whereabouts that night, some men would not take kindly to their sisters interfering in their personal affairs and MB did not participate in a single search for his sister, which any way you look at it is just plain strange.

sorry but the above in bold is not true,

i was on most of the searches and i can clearly remember MB and his GF NS being at the searches, maybe not all of them but at least a few of them

 

[JohnPaul]

MB's gf, NS, said he got to her house around 8:30 pm on the night of 19 June 1990. She said this to the future uncle of EB, who was looking into the case. NS lives within walking distance of 3R - where EB's car was found on the afternoon of 22 June 1990.

NS said MB stayed until 10:00 pm or so and left, and that he did not spend the night.

What did NS say MB was driving? Or did she say what MB was driving?

It's not really a 'stroll' from the Bain residence to the NS residence. Why would MB stroll there anyway? He had a vehicle. He had to work the next morning and it was late - whether he stayed or not, or whether he arrived after class or not.

Why did Mr Bain feel it necessary to remind NS, at 2:30 am on some morning later (if true) that MB had spent the night of 19 - 20 June 1990 at her house?

Note - I see you have posted that Mrs B testified MB came home at 6:00 am the morning of 20 June 1990 (alluding to her son had spent the night at the NS residence) - before going to work that morning in Markham. Is this correct or do you just 'believe' Mrs B testified to that at pre-trial?

Did NS testify? What did she say at trial? Did it differ from what she told the future uncle of EB?

i put it in bold above,

are you trying to say Mr B was trying to put doubt into NS mind, so she would believe MB stayed over that night?

if that is what you are implying then i can relate to this,

i now recall MR B calling me a few times to ask me questions, after i gave the honest answers that i knew for fact were true, he tried to make me believe my answers were not correct,

 

[Sillybilly]

Please continue at Thread #2