GUILTY Canada - Kienan Hebert, 3, Sparwood BC, 7 Sept 2011 - #2

[nao]

OK before i start laughing to much, yes people fantisyies(so spelt wrong) Ya know i've chopped the legs of my childs PGs, would like a thong, . Tell me when has this man shown violence- ya (sorry honey)girlfriend- 2 adults fight thats one thing - hurt a child- thats- he has never done harm to a child.

 

[Dee10]

It has been reported in the press that the 10 yr. old boy that he kidnapped in '85 was allegedly raped twice. Maybe someone knows where the link to that article is?

 

[dilbert]

JMO and respect to others opinions
In the 80s -30ish years ago RH did time for sex assualt- he only got 2 yrs -so not big time.
We do not know what he did.
He has NOT been convicted with any sex crimes since then. He B&Es for sure, but it must be small time - food survival stuff-nunno thats my best guess -we do not know.
JMO in his way he's trying to save kids- a child in foster care, a little fella with a black eye.
Squatting is legal in UK. Out here for the winter, i think its accepted, just don't steal stuff, don't wreck it.
As i understand -He always winters there, maybe the RCMP did'nt know wich cabin but-
strange case - and no i don't have a problem with the way RH lives . Out here we have a swiming pool - so showers. i don't know what Sparwood has.
JMO MOO

re: the part I bolded - I don't agree, AFAIK RH tried to abduct a different child before taking Kienan that same night, but failed at luring the child out of the home. I don't think Kienan was the planned or initial target, if it turns out the abduction was "planned" and not a crime of opportunity at all.

 

[dilbert]

OK before i start laughing to much, yes people fantisyies(so spelt wrong) Ya know i've chopped the legs of my childs PGs, would like a thong, . Tell me when has this man shown violence- ya (sorry honey)girlfriend- 2 adults fight thats one thing - hurt a child- thats- he has never done harm to a child.

I don't understand, you made a thong out of your child's pj's? :waitasec:

 

[craftybatchy]

what i want to know why he is been seen as a pedo, i don't see any history?

He had previous charges related to a situation involving a 10 year old boy who was in the care of MCFD. This child had an IQ level below the threshold for intellectual disability. He was dx with ADHD, FAS, and was widely known to be a compulsive liar. He was also Crown`s star witness. There were too many inconsistencies between the story provided by this child and his foster parent and as such, all charges were dropped.

"He's also glad to see that the young boy got returned home safely. I wouldn't be surprised if he was (under suicide watch)."

http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/l...shColumbiaHome

So, was he or wasn't he the one to return him? Sort of leaves it open.

I don`t know. I am so torn over this particular aspect.

OK before i start laughing to much, yes people fantisyies(so spelt wrong) Ya know i've chopped the legs of my childs PGs, would like a thong, . Tell me when has this man shown violence- ya (sorry honey)girlfriend- 2 adults fight thats one thing - hurt a child- thats- he has never done harm to a child.

I too have shortened the legs on my child`s Pullups because the boxer type are bulky, uncomfortable, and not very discrete AT ALL. Maybe Hopley is into infantilism. The offending underwear were found in a cabin - Hopley might have used the briefs himself instead of a honey bucket or outhouse. I don`t know what type the child routinely used but it might be that the ones in Hopley`s cabin were too big and he was trying to create something more suitable.

It has been reported in the press that the 10 yr. old boy that he kidnapped in '85 was allegedly raped twice. Maybe someone knows where the link to that article is?

The child alleged that Hopley has sexually assaulted him. This claim was later withdrawn by the child and the case was not pursued.

 

[nao]

No- i make rags out of my childs an my stuff, never wondered what what the left overs looked like. They don't like or want RH in Sparwood - he's smelly , he's ugly.
Yea so just hang him high. He has -what sex convictions against him?

 

[nao]

Sorry Dilbert- i chop up clothing just for rags, its just the easy way to cut, so you don't get elastic, i guess the left over would look like a thong.

 

[nao]

No- he possibly (because they have a foot print) maybe entered a house, there were no kids in the house at that time, --so kinda hard to to abduct.

 

[JeannieC]

I don't understand, you made a thong out of your child's pj's? :waitasec:

I think she meant she made shorty pj's

 

[SkyBlueWaters]

I would actually feel sorry for the guy if this was a first time offense and returned the boy unharmed. I would say let him get the treatment he needs for whatever mental disorder or illness he has, keep him locked up and monitored upon his release BUT........this was not his first offense, court document records stated he would reoffend and he did. He was on probation and committed a crime.

No free pass from me. Lock him up and throw away the key. Canadians have no use for him. Our children need to be protected. We don't want the Hopleys of the world walking our streets.

oops -hit the wrong icon - :

 

[nao]

This is a hot topic in my community i've lived here 20 yrs so sorta accepted as a local. but the housing market has changed, people can get nice chunk of property, community or now they call it a neighborhood has changed.
There was a beautiful acceptance here, people worked problems out without the police. talk not violence, never isolation, not in a hippy sweet way, just respect --or
How long did RH live in that community?. the question here is, how long has he lived in that community? A pedo no, that would of been dealt with long ago if true, so the general thought is, - thats a really weird situation, do'nt know him so -hmmm

 

[BleuK]

Nao, respectfully, he has been involved in a sexual assault case of a child and the reason it was dropped was because the child was unable to testify. He has abducted children before, and attempted abductions. The description of the cabin he squatted in isn't just a case of a few items misconstrued; the scene was so disturbing the family later demolished the cabin.

I appreciate your point, but in this case the issue is more that he wasn't prosecuted as he should've been for his previous crimes and not an issue of a man being vilified because he's different.

 

[matou]

In case anyone wanted to hear what some heard over the scanner when Hopley was arrested, it's at this link: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2011/09/15/randall-hopley-arrest-audio-rcmp_n_963710.html

 

[Kamille]

Interview with RH's mother..


Randall Hopley's mother: 'I just wish I could talk to him'
By Valerie Fortney, Calgary Herald September 15, 2011 6:55 AM


Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/Randal...h+could+talk/5405920/story.html#ixzz1Y1wh09ki

 

[ClaireNC]

Interview with RH's mother..


Randall Hopley's mother: 'I just wish I could talk to him'
By Valerie Fortney, Calgary Herald September 15, 2011 6:55 AM


Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/Randal...h+could+talk/5405920/story.html#ixzz1Y1wh09ki

Thanks for posting Kamille, I found this comment from the author interesting: "Like so many here, the bizarre and perplexing case has the one person closest to Randall Hopley scratching her head about the why's and how's." Earlier reports said that RH had not been to visit his mother in over a year, but had stopped by the Tuesday before KH went missing. I think his landlord was a lot closer to him than his mother was.

I wonder why the author/newspaper decided to put that particular spin on that article.

 

[SilkySifaka]

He had previous charges related to a situation involving a 10 year old boy who was in the care of MCFD. This child had an IQ level below the threshold for intellectual disability. He was dx with ADHD, FAS, and was widely known to be a compulsive liar. He was also Crown`s star witness. There were too many inconsistencies between the story provided by this child and his foster parent and as such, all charges were dropped.




I don`t know. I am so torn over this particular aspect.



I too have shortened the legs on my child`s Pullups because the boxer type are bulky, uncomfortable, and not very discrete AT ALL. Maybe Hopley is into infantilism. The offending underwear were found in a cabin - Hopley might have used the briefs himself instead of a honey bucket or outhouse. I don`t know what type the child routinely used but it might be that the ones in Hopley`s cabin were too big and he was trying to create something more suitable.



The child alleged that Hopley has sexually assaulted him. This claim was later withdrawn by the child and the case was not pursued.

I think its pretty obvious Hopley is seriously disturbed. You might be right about infantilism because I don't see someone expecting a 10 year old to need diapers and as someone else said, looks like Kienan was not the original target.

That said. If he had no sexual reason for kidnapping Kienan then this case is bizarre. Of course...it is in reality too..Never do children get returned as he did. It just doesn't happen.

Also if he is a pedo, and I agree that its not certain even if it looks likely, there is a vast difference between a 3 yr old and a 10 year old victim of choice. so it doesn't surprise me if Kienan was not sexually assaulted. It does surprise me that he was returned.

Another thing...that he pleaded with the other family to be allowed to stay with his crazy room of kids stuff..the guy has no clue to appropriate behavior.

Either way I don't want him on the street. If he has not raped a child (and the other child did recant-also easy to see the idea being put into a childs mind after the kidnapping) he is still a danger to them. We also don't know how far he might go next time.

My best scenario for him would be confinement to a mental institution, imo he would be there far longer than a prison term for this case. I can think of some murderers who were found not guilty due to insanity and have already out served the sentence they would have had if found guilty and likely will never see the light of day. In Edmonton there is a real creep who cut his g/f's body up in a bathtub who has served about 10 years more than the max he would have gotten so far.

I don't think Hopley will ever be safe on the streets, if its not sexual then even more so. You can't go around luring and kidnapping children for any reason!

A prison sentence will be less than what is needed because thank god he didn't kill and as far as we know did not sexually assault. It does mean the charges are lesser though.

All that said, I give him credit for returning Kienan. That took a bit of conscience and remorse that most ignore even if they have it, to save their own skin.

I was sure this was going to end with a grave or never being found..unless there was a confession. To be wrong is fantastic. Can we at least all agree on that?

Most of those who feel sorry for Hopley feel sorry for the past he had and how lost he seems himself compared to the majority of child abductors we see. I do too. Most of us don't want him free to do this again though. Just to be treated the way LE said they would.

 

[SilkySifaka]

Nao, respectfully, he has been involved in a sexual assault case of a child and the reason it was dropped was because the child was unable to testify. He has abducted children before, and attempted abductions. The description of the cabin he squatted in isn't just a case of a few items misconstrued; the scene was so disturbing the family later demolished the cabin.

I appreciate your point, but in this case the issue is more that he wasn't prosecuted as he should've been for his previous crimes and not an issue of a man being vilified because he's different.

The thing is we don't KNOW that the child was sexually assaulted. It never did come to trial. We do know that in this instance it is said he didn't.

I find the community reaction interesting. There isn't the sort of feeling about Hopley from articles I read and comments, that one often gets about a known child abuser. It seems as if they see him as a problem but not evil. Which begs the question, why. Maybe he really is just a really troubled person who commits crimes without any intent of harming someone. Intent. Not that he doesn't harm them but that he doesn't plan on it as the reason.

I am torn over him. Not torn over the need to lock him up though. Just what is the truth about him and what he meant or wanted with kids. In such a small community it is hard to believe that he was a pedo and never touched or was caught touching other kids. With his low IQ etc. does anyone believe that at least one kid wouldn't have come forward especially after his arrest for the 10 year old?

He just doesn't fit our picture or at least this case does not fit the picture of a monster.

I bet more than nao and myself are confused as to why we don't see him as one, this whole situation is bizarre. He doesn't pigeon hole easily and trying to make him do so is like trying to put a square peg into a round circle. It is to pat and simple.

 

[SilkySifaka]

Thanks for posting Kamille, I found this comment from the author interesting: "Like so many here, the bizarre and perplexing case has the one person closest to Randall Hopley scratching her head about the why's and how's." Earlier reports said that RH had not been to visit his mother in over a year, but had stopped by the Tuesday before KH went missing. I think his landlord was a lot closer to him than his mother was.

I wonder why the author/newspaper decided to put that particular spin on that article.

I think it is the crux of what nao has tried to say. There seems to be a community feel that he is their own troubled soul rather than evil. Even with what he has done people want to understand him because it doesn't fit with the easy answer as I said in my upthread post. So how did this happen? How did a man kidnap a toddler and then return him essentially unharmed. We know the physical mayhem that so many wreak on children sexually and physically. A 3 year old will show signs of the worst.

I just think that people want to know what was in his mind and are not sure he planned to harm the child.

His mom was sure he wouldn't even with his history. It also sounded like LE believed that there was a chance he wouldn't..more than the token "always" a chance. Something is different here and people want to learn about the man to understand the crime and ending of it.

We all know why abductors normally take kids..and they have no conscience about doing so. They kill rather than get caught. Or keep them until caught.

So why is Randall different. If we could understand that, maybe we could get different endings in other cases.

 

[ClaireNC]

Silky and Nao, You both brought up some really good points and I agree with you in many respects.

Silky, Your comment here is a great summary.

I bet more than nao and myself are confused as to why we don't see him as one, this whole situation is bizarre. He doesn't pigeon hole easily and trying to make him do so is like trying to put a square peg into a round circle. It is to pat and simple.

I have some thoughts to add, but unfortunately work is calling. I'll try to write more later.

 

[MsFacetious]

Also - I don't think that the media released the photo of the child playing happily at home with his family for OUR benefit so much as for the suspect's. They want him to see and know that he has done a very good thing and that the child is happy to be home, and loved.... I'd do the same thing if I were LE.

I think they are right when they say Kienan was brought back because of the plea.

I think Randall brought him back when he realized that this little boy did have a family who loved him, cared for him and missed him.

That even though his own family wouldn't have cared if he was abducted, this little boy had a family who did.

Randall Hopley's life was pretty much over the moment he was born. He was intellectually disabled, functionally illiterate, and very socially awkward. His mother put him in foster care but kept all of his siblings (how is that for rejection). He did at one time have a birthmark on his forehead near the hairline which was removed surgically, leaving him with obvious scarring on the right side of his face above his cheekbone and eyebrow. He has obviously dysmorphic facial features suggestive of some sort of congenital syndrome in addition to prenatal alcohol exposure.

Is this the same mother who is doing the interviews? Or was he adopted?

http://www.calgaryherald.com/Randal...h+could+talk/5405920/story.html#ixzz1Y1wh09ki

Our views on these things are shaped by our experiences. That is why I have compassion for Randall when so many others don't.

I have seen the whole spectrum. Babies, kids and adults. Adored, loved, abused, neglected, starved, institutionalized, abandoned... all of it.

I have seen what kids like Randall can become if they are given to a loving adoptive family at birth.
I've seen what they can become when they are institutionalized... and I've seen the in-between like Randall.

When my daughter was born with Down syndrome family members reacted differently.

I had worked with kids with disabilities so I was more aware of the current reality and when I knew she was healthy, I was okay.

My Dad, was just thrilled to have a granddaughter.

My Mom, had worked in the state hospital with institutionalized adults and that was all she knew... she freaked out a little.

A family member who had aborted a child with Down syndrome that was due when my daughter was... has lost her family... attempted suicide.
Watching my daughter grow up, realizing what she is missing has haunted her. Her older children hate her for taking that away from them.

A family member who was adopting a child with Down syndrome celebrated, she was SO excited.

Another family member who institutionalized her "child" with Down syndrome when "it" was born... just won't acknowledge my daughter.

All of these people would react differently to Randall... as would people who haven't had experiences with people with disabilities.

While I agree with the gist of your post regarding the penalites that should be imposed, I think you are underestimating the effects of FAS. I think that for every FAS adult that offends, the birth mother should serve the same sentence but that's a whole other thread LOL. But here are the odds that were stacked against Hopley before he was even born.

95% will have mental health problems;
60% will have "disrupted school experience";
60% will experience trouble with the law;
55% will be confined in prison, drug or alcohol treatment centre or mental institution;
52% will exhibit inappropriate sexual behaviour.

http://www.faslink.org/fasmain.htm

Also:

On a study on male pedophiles

Additional disabilities, such as autism spectrum disorder and Fetal Alcohol Syndrome were noted in 70% of the group.

Statistically, punishments do not work with FAS. The damage is done - and as harsh as this sounds, Hopley is, I believe, incurable. Again, I am not suggesting he be given a pass, or be allowed on the streets. I just think with the whole "tougher laws" suggestions we also need to consider attacking and solving the root of the evil if we want to really start putting a stop to these people wandering the streets to protect innocent children.

I completely agree.

I also totally agree that he doesn't just need to be released because it's not his fault.
But he also doesn't need to be released into the general population like he's Ted Bundy.

He needs to be kept where he cannot hurt children. Where he can get treatment in a contained location. The public needs to be protected.

For the rest of his natural life. We need to make that happen for those who are incurable... and make it a true lifelong sentence.

LE appears to have compassion for Randall... which tells me something... there is a reason for that. Maybe they know he doesn't have evil intentions and just has never gotten the help he needs?