Maybe military, PT kit? US Army issues black running shoes: U.S.-Made Sneakers Become Standard Issue For The Military
Canada- Sharif Rahman, owner of the Curry House restaurant, suffered brain injury after assault by 3 non-paying men, Owen Sound, Ontario, 17 Aug. '23
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I like your points about a possible uniform and being clean cut. Expanding on your point, the do not have visible tattoos either.
So... maybe co-workers for an employer where image is important? Say.... theme park, expensive resort hotel, Great Lakes cruise ship (do they exist?), Airline employees whose position involves contact with customer or something similar?
I wish the police interviewed witnesses to see if the trio had accented English, used another language or had other foreign vibes (probably not pc, but such vibes do exist). In the US, some large resorts can have alot of contracted eastern Europeans.
The Canadian Forces base, CFB Borden, is about 100 km from Owen Sound.
Following your lead in regards to alcohol....
As @Mel 1303 related, the bill was $40.00- which seems to be about 28.00 US dollars and notes that this number implies one diner.
The men were in good physical condiyion, young and large. Even if all spent on alcohol, $28.00- or even, $40.00 US dollars was not likely to get the assailant(s) drunk. Then factor in that if this apparently Muslim owned restaurant served alcohol, it was probably of the more sedate beer and wine variety and not the say.... Happy Hour!! $5.00 "Jack 'n Coke" type.
The totality of your and @Mel 1303 's observations could support the following:
- 3 co workers, team mates, possibly military are in town for a night on the town. They go to a bar- probably of the $5.00 Happy Hour drinks variety to start the evening off right. They start to get drunk. But.. perhaps this bar does not have food? Or, maybe they do, but only salty snacks?
- One of the crew is hungry and leaves the bar in search of something more to eat. Wanders to the Curry restaurant. Orders food for himself, maybe has two more beers to put himself over the top.
- His friends arrive and encourage him to skip the bill- or he skipped it on his own initiative. A fatal confrontation occurs.....
Regardless of whose idea to skip out it was, it could have been, as you implied, alcohol fueled. If it was alcohol fueled, the trio was probably went some where a little bit more wilder first to "tank up", then one went to the restaurant.
Was this possible initial bar with in walking distance?
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Vern
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Interesting.
CFB Borden is Regular Force. Full-timers in the military.
4 Cdn Div TC (4th Canadian Division Training Centre) is at Meaford, Ontario. 26 Minutes by car. Owen Sound is the closest town.
Meaford runs Cdn Army Reservist (part-timers) training during the summer block period. Basic Training Courses, PLQ (a Junior Leadership Course required for promotion to Master Corporal [MCpl] which Reg Force and Res F soldiers attend).
17 August 2023 was a Thursday night .... fondly known as "Steak Night" at Canadian Armed Forces Mess facilities. Troops on training aren't going to pass a free steak dinner up .... given the menu for the other nights of the week!
Troops on training can be seen by some to "conform". Military haircuts, subdued civilian dress etc. I do not believe that we procure PT (Physical Training) Kit for our troops any more - rather they wear what they purchase. Black or dark shorts are the preferred of course as we never know when we'll be on the ground for push ups, sit-ups etc.
I wonder if Meaford had any courses in-house at the time, or any foreign exercises happening, any armoured driver courses happening with troops out of Petawawa etc, but wager that the OPP and/or RCMP have already delved into that angle given that they are well aware that Meaford exists and that troops from there do their shopping etc in Owen Sound. Edit to add: the RCMP and OPP also sometimes use the firing ranges in Meaford for their own training.
I've spent some time at both locations. Was posted to CFB Borden, but was in Meaford for just 9 days ... and had to hit up Walmart in Owen Sound for some snacks.
4th Canadian Division Training Centre to Owen Sound
What was the bill for? Food ... or just drinks?
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One person eating, and the other two joining later has been the idea that has made the most sense to me, especially with such a low bill. It also explains to me why there is only footage of two men leaving- the other was in a different vehicle parked in a different direction.
Here is the menu: The Curry House
If one person had an appetiser, a main and a drink you would be close to $40. There is no mention of alcohol on the menu, however if you go to the restaurants facebook page in the pictures there are what look to me to be wine glasses and beer bottles, so I am leaning toward it being licenced, or at least byo.
If one person had an appetiser, a main and a drink you would be close to $40. There is no mention of alcohol on the menu, however if you go to the restaurants facebook page in the pictures there are what look to me to be wine glasses and beer bottles, so I am leaning toward it being licenced, or at least byo.
Vern
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They have alcohol in their restaurant's facebook page photos.
Seems to me that we Canadians usually tend to have two menus at restaurants: a drinks menu and a food menu.
Edit to add: LOL - they also have a photo of their liquor license posted in there.
Hundreds of army reservists tackle extensive training in Meaford
The 4th Canadian Division Training Center on Grey Rd 112 in Meaford is buzzing with activity as over 700 army reservists from across southwestern Ontario gather for a significant training event.
over 700 army reservists from across southwestern Ontario gather for a significant training event.
The 10-day training session concludes on Sunday.
Thanks.
As you stated, the bill can stack up fast. Twenty dollar entres would probably yield what- $6.00 to $7.00 beers? (they dont look like wine imbibers).
I think this reinforces the possibility that even a solo diner of their size and likely tolerance was not going to get drunk off a 30-40 dollar tab- especially as it very likely included at least some food.
So, if the crime was alcohol fueled, they likely went somewhere before. Servicemen can develop can have favorite bars for nights on the town for a variety of reasons (cost, attractive waitresses, "tradition", retired military owner etc).
In pursuing the servicemen possibility, I wonder if Owen Sound has a "military favorite" type bar where they could have went before?
Likewise, ships crews can have favorite bars for the same reasons servicemen do. Any commercial fishing, cargo ship or barge and tug activity in the harbor? Cargo ships tend to have short lay overs- but loading / unloading still take time. Some of the crew then head to a favorite bar- and one then goes to the Curry House?
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Vern
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Reservists on training at Meaford would not have been running the roads in Owen Sound prior to 1700hrs. They would have trained until 1600hrs (minimum) on a weekday (it was Thursday) then secured weapons etc before heading to town.
It was steak night. So, if reservists, IMO they ate at the Mess then headed into town with their bellies full. Perhaps ducked into the place to get out of the rain and put a couple drinks each down range while waiting - maybe with a shared appetizer.
They don't come in to train with vehicles. If you zoom in the googlemap to the place that I posted earlier, you'll see a distinct lack of military vehicles there (map image is from outside of the summer training block).
We bring our own Unit vehicles TO Meaford when we go there to train. Each with driver & co-driver and left over troops onto busses. Reserve Force troops are not stationed at Meaford full time - they only go there to do training. 99% of Reservists training takes place during March Break holiday and summer break because that is when they are not in high school classes.
Very few participating would have access to a civilian vehicle (of their own) while there. More apt to be a staff vehicle (federal registered or rented for the summer block program or specific training activity etc). Each time a staff vehicle would head to town: mileage and trip report should be recorded on sign-out register etc.
The only people from Meaford with a "favourite haunt" in Owen Sound would be those posted there with their families year-round (Regular Force full time military) and those photos give me a "nah" for that. Staff soldiers don't conform in our dress - unless we are actually working as we have full access to our closets and dressers. Troops there for a week or 6 on training though ... have only the kit they carried in in their duffle bag and ruck sack. Bringing shorts and t-shirts that are suitable for downtown AND PT (clothes with multi-task capabilities) would be less kit to carry on their backs with that limited space they have for carrying it after making sure their military kit is all packed in. And, I already spoke to preferred dark colursfor shorts etc in previous posts.
Great find - I can't help but feel if they were from the region, someone would have recognized the way they dress...it's kinda memorable.Hundreds of army reservists tackle extensive training in Meaford
The 4th Canadian Division Training Center on Grey Rd 112 in Meaford is buzzing with activity as over 700 army reservists from across southwestern Ontario gather for a significant training event.barrie.ctvnews.ca
over 700 army reservists from across southwestern Ontario gather for a significant training event.
The 10-day training session concludes on Sunday.
I think that's so odd, that they split up in running away.
The younger pair ran down the long commercial block, then turned onto a side street.
"The males fled the area, two of which ran southbound on 2nd Avenue East toward the intersection at 9th Street and continued eastbound on 9th Street East." Police Continue to Seek the Public’s Assistance With Serious Assault | Owen Sound Police Service
To me, that implies the older man headed the opposite direction - turning onto a busy artery, then heading south parallel to the young men, along a residential street. He evidently escaped good quality video.
ETA: or they had planned it so meticulously, they set up a rendezvous spot.
LE know exactly which car they got into, so I think LE'd have tried to trace where they came from, where they went, and how long they'd been there, etc.
JMO
Nov '23
nationalpost.com
''On one hand, it has a regional hospital, a major junior hockey team, big-box stores, restaurants and other businesses — all drawing people in from the surrounding countryside, towns and villages. At the same time, it is small by city standards, with a population of around 21,000.''
''On the night of the assault, Anis Rahman, who managed the restaurant, got a call from a co-worker asking him to quickly come to The Curry House.
''He said he was told three men had been eating in the restaurant when Sharif asked them to pay, because The Curry House would soon be closing for the night. They argued, did not pay and left the restaurant. Sharif also went outside. That is where he was injured.''
Brutal killing of beloved business owner sparks uproar in quiet Ontario city
Violence is on the rise in Owen Sound, where there have been no arrests in the August death of Curry House owner Sharif Rahman
''On the night of the assault, Anis Rahman, who managed the restaurant, got a call from a co-worker asking him to quickly come to The Curry House.
''He said he was told three men had been eating in the restaurant when Sharif asked them to pay, because The Curry House would soon be closing for the night. They argued, did not pay and left the restaurant. Sharif also went outside. That is where he was injured.''
RSBM
Did they perhaps become angry because the restaurant was closing and they'd expected to stay longer and eat/drink more - and that was why the bill was small?
@Vern
I am thinking that the odds of them being service men are dwindling based on your observations:
- Reservists? Possible. But as you stated, unlikely to be in the town prior to 1700 and unlikely to have personal cars with them. Sure, could be young officers- but running out on tabs is not an "officer gone bad" stunt. They dont look senior NCO'ish either. So, how likely could junior enlisted could get a government car and permission to cruise to town on Thursday evening when the unit is there to train?
- Active duty staff / cadre? As you stated, they have full wardrobes and would not need to run around town in semi PT uniform. One guy's hair cut also seems "military marginal".
- Rotating active duty: Might have to resort to partial civilian clothes. But... probably unlikely to have cars with them. So.... need permission to use staff car to go to town. But.... not likely officers, nor senior NCOs. So, how likely would junior enlisted get to use a government ride to town for frivolous, non training reasons?
Then factor in that one of the crew was identified as being older. Senior officers and senior NCOs dont mix with junior officers or junior enlisted that much. Nor do senior officers and senior NCOs pull dine and dash stunts.
I am thinking that the odds of them being service men are dwindling based on your observations:
- Reservists? Possible. But as you stated, unlikely to be in the town prior to 1700 and unlikely to have personal cars with them. Sure, could be young officers- but running out on tabs is not an "officer gone bad" stunt. They dont look senior NCO'ish either. So, how likely could junior enlisted could get a government car and permission to cruise to town on Thursday evening when the unit is there to train?
- Active duty staff / cadre? As you stated, they have full wardrobes and would not need to run around town in semi PT uniform. One guy's hair cut also seems "military marginal".
- Rotating active duty: Might have to resort to partial civilian clothes. But... probably unlikely to have cars with them. So.... need permission to use staff car to go to town. But.... not likely officers, nor senior NCOs. So, how likely would junior enlisted get to use a government ride to town for frivolous, non training reasons?
Then factor in that one of the crew was identified as being older. Senior officers and senior NCOs dont mix with junior officers or junior enlisted that much. Nor do senior officers and senior NCOs pull dine and dash stunts.
Vern
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Looking at the photos, I'd rule out Reg F at least.
Agreed fully on the staff and cadre dress. Neither of those two groups 'conforms' when out in public. LOL. As to hair, our dress regs changed in fall of 2022. Growing out of hair, dying it etc is acceptable for males and females now - marginla has ceased to exist in the current CAF context (or that in effect on 17 Aug 23).
Link: likewise nail polish etc. : Updated Canadian Forces Dress Instructions Released - Canadian Military Family Magazine.
Depends upon the Unit. Quite possible to visit dispatch and sign out a staff car to do a run downtown fo troops on training, but that trip ticket and mileage would be on file. As well, 4 Div TC itself may have rented vehicles for use by all units training there during summer block ... they by SUVs and 4 wheel drives given they'd also be used for adm (administartion) runs to/from the training area into the base proper - example to bring in someone who felt sick out of the field and into the base medical facility. So two options: Staff Car or a rental used by the TC. Possible.
Temporary staff brought in only for the summer to assist with all the courses and training would have access to their own vehicles as their costs for getting to/from for the summer would be covered by the Crown. They'd also have a tonne more civilian clothing to wear when going out and about in town because they'd have room to transport it there for the summer in their vehicle.
Interesting that age groups tend to be well-blended these days in the recruiting process for both Regular Force and Reserve Force personnel. For the non-commissioned officers (NCOs) I have had Privates in ther 30s and 40s in both realms. I know a 43 year old who entered the Regular Force as Infantry ... and passed. My own son is a Sergeant (Sgt) for 3 years now at 26 (Regular Force). I've got some Class B ResF WOs in Brigade HQ right now that are mid to late 20s.
Officers undergoing training though still tend to be the younger 18-22 year old university students.
Vern, you have made a significant contribution here. The “costumes” were confusing to me, however the possibility that they were part of the training in Meaford seems real. Thank you.