CANADA Canada - Susan Tice, 45, & Erin Gilmour, 22, Toronto, Aug & Dec 1983

[dotr]

What we know so far about accused murderer Joseph George Sutherland

Nearly 40 years after Joseph George Sutherland allegedly killed two women in Toronto, the now 61-year-old has been arrested.

www.cp24.com

''At the time of his arrest, Sutherland was living in Moosonee, Ont. Moosonee is a small northern town nearby James Bay, which is the southernmost tip of Hudson Bay, and is roughly 850 kilometres north of Toronto.

Det. Sgt. Stephen Smith, the lead investigator on the case, said Monday morning Sutherland moved throughout the province during the last 39 years, but did not specify where else he lived.

Smith said there were “no issues” taking Sutherland into custody, adding “when you commit these crimes, you're just waiting for that knock to come at the door.”

Ontario News - Latest News In Ontario | The Star

Local news from Toronto, Hamilton, Waterloo and Niagara. Visit thestar.com for local Ontario coverage today.

www.thestar.com

 

[Gina20]

What we know so far about accused murderer Joseph George Sutherland

Nearly 40 years after Joseph George Sutherland allegedly killed two women in Toronto, the now 61-year-old has been arrested.

www.cp24.com

View attachment 383274
''At the time of his arrest, Sutherland was living in Moosonee, Ont. Moosonee is a small northern town nearby James Bay, which is the southernmost tip of Hudson Bay, and is roughly 850 kilometres north of Toronto.

Det. Sgt. Stephen Smith, the lead investigator on the case, said Monday morning Sutherland moved throughout the province during the last 39 years, but did not specify where else he lived.

Smith said there were “no issues” taking Sutherland into custody, adding “when you commit these crimes, you're just waiting for that knock to come at the door.”

Ontario News - Latest News In Ontario | The Star

Local news from Toronto, Hamilton, Waterloo and Niagara. Visit thestar.com for local Ontario coverage today.

www.thestar.com

View attachment 383276

The Polar Bear Express only runs four days a week at this time of year and the ice road likely wouldn't be open yet. There was nowhere for him to run.

Travelling on the Train | Ontario Northland

Train travel information for Ontario Northland. Get information about our Polar Bear Express, booking, baggage, schedules & more. Expect increased COVID-19 safety & hygiene practices, as well as new protocols.

www.ontarionorthland.ca

 

[branmuffin]

Moosonee is not easily accessible. I don't know how long Joseph Sanderson lived there, but it seems the kind of outdoorsy place where fishing and hunting would mean owning rifles and knives. I do hope police look for a pair of old Dakota or Wind River work boots, size 10 or 11, sold in Marks stores.

Sutherland is a First Nation aboriginal. He was probably born in Moosonee or on one of the reserves in Northern Ontario. Lots of natives come down to the Toronto area since there isn't much opportunity for jobs up there. It definitely is an outdoorsy place. The only way to access Moosonee is by plane or train. In the winter there is an ice road. It is very, very rural.

I'd be interested to know when JS came to Toronto and whether he attended a school in southern Ontario before going to Humber College. A school called Brockton Learning Centre which was an Aboriginal Education Centre (now defunct) was located in the Bloor St/Dufferin St area. It is very close to where Susan Tice lived on Grace St and is also close to the Dufferin Mall. It would be interesting to know who owned the Dufferin Mall back in the 1980s since a lot of businesses hire security guards from the same company so they can utilize their services at different locations like the Hudson's Bay Shopping Mall at Bloor and Yonge St, which is just south of Yorkville.

 

[DSCrime]

What we know so far about accused murderer Joseph George Sutherland

Nearly 40 years after Joseph George Sutherland allegedly killed two women in Toronto, the now 61-year-old has been arrested.

www.cp24.com

View attachment 383274
''At the time of his arrest, Sutherland was living in Moosonee, Ont. Moosonee is a small northern town nearby James Bay, which is the southernmost tip of Hudson Bay, and is roughly 850 kilometres north of Toronto.

Det. Sgt. Stephen Smith, the lead investigator on the case, said Monday morning Sutherland moved throughout the province during the last 39 years, but did not specify where else he lived.

Smith said there were “no issues” taking Sutherland into custody, adding “when you commit these crimes, you're just waiting for that knock to come at the door.”

Ontario News - Latest News In Ontario | The Star

Local news from Toronto, Hamilton, Waterloo and Niagara. Visit thestar.com for local Ontario coverage today.

www.thestar.com

View attachment 383276

Wow this shows how remote Moosonee is. It must have made the work for investigators harder. On a crime show I watched a long time ago, cops talked about how doing surveillance in rural areas is harder than urban, b/c with wide-open spaces & small populations the suspects can spot law enforcement faster.

 

[branmuffin]

So glad to hear of this arrest.
Statistically, what are the odds that these 2 women were the only two?

If he left Toronto right after the murders I would say statistically low. If he hung around for another year or so, then the odds go up, IMO.

 

[dotr]

Wonder if he worked security at film shoots? complete speculation, imo;
Filmed in Moosonee.

Canada’s Indigenous acting community shines in film adaption of Through Black Spruce

Sponsor Content

www.theglobeandmail.com

''Like the novel, the film tells the story of twin sisters from Moosonee, Ont., one of whom has gone missing in Toronto while pursuing a career in modelling, just one tragedy in the collective story of Canada’s Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Children.''

 

[Gina20]

Sutherland is a First Nation aboriginal. He was probably born in Moosonee or on one of the reserves in Northern Ontario. Lots of natives come down to the Toronto area since there isn't much opportunity for jobs up there. It definitely is an outdoorsy place. The only way to access Moosonee is by plane or train. In the winter there is an ice road. It is very, very rural.

I'd be interested to know when JS came to Toronto and whether he attended a school in southern Ontario before going to Humber College. A school called Brockton Learning Centre which was an Aboriginal Education Centre (now defunct) was located in the Bloor St/Dufferin St area. It is very close to where Susan Tice lived on Grace St and is also close to the Dufferin Mall. It would be interesting to know who owned the Dufferin Mall back in the 1980s since a lot of businesses hire security guards from the same company so they can utilize their services at different locations like the Hudson's Bay Shopping Mall at Bloor and Yonge St, which is just south of Yorkville.

His FB says he is from Fort Albany. The Sutherland name is built into the settlement's history there, since the HBC arrived.

 

[Gina20]

Now that we have a photo of this accused as a young man, I have questions about whether he is responsible for the murder of Margaret McWilliam, among others.

Image at 41:18 of the composite sketch of a man who could have been Margaret's killer. The man on the left above is the one in question.

 

[dotr]

His FB says he is from Fort Albany. The Sutherland name is built into the settlement's history there, since the HBC arrived.

Cannot recall if i posted this new thread here or not..

CANADA - Canada- Josephine Chakasim, 17, Body found in water by railway tracks, Moosonee, Ont., 22 April 1977 *RE-OPENED*

rbbm https://www.cbc.ca/missingandmurdered/mmiw/profiles/josephine-chakasim UPDATE: Ontario Provincial Police reopening 1977 investigation into Moosonee teenager's death ''Chakasim, 17, was the youngest of eight siblings in a tight-knit family. After leaving for a night out, Josephine never...

www.websleuths.com

 

[Gina20]

Now that we have a photo of this accused as a young man, I have questions about whether he is responsible for the murder of Margaret McWilliam, among others.

Image at 41:18 of the composite sketch of a man who could have been Margaret's killer. The man on the left above is the one in question.

 

[Gina20]

Sutherland is a First Nation aboriginal. He was probably born in Moosonee or on one of the reserves in Northern Ontario. Lots of natives come down to the Toronto area since there isn't much opportunity for jobs up there. It definitely is an outdoorsy place. The only way to access Moosonee is by plane or train. In the winter there is an ice road. It is very, very rural.

I'd be interested to know when JS came to Toronto and whether he attended a school in southern Ontario before going to Humber College. A school called Brockton Learning Centre which was an Aboriginal Education Centre (now defunct) was located in the Bloor St/Dufferin St area. It is very close to where Susan Tice lived on Grace St and is also close to the Dufferin Mall. It would be interesting to know who owned the Dufferin Mall back in the 1980s since a lot of businesses hire security guards from the same company so they can utilize their services at different locations like the Hudson's Bay Shopping Mall at Bloor and Yonge St, which is just south of Yorkville.

I am wondering if he ever worked as a security guard in hospitals, which could explain a lot if he's ever tied to the murders of Sonia Varaschin, a nurse, and Margaret McWilliam, who lived near one.

Thank you for the info about the Brockton Learning Centre and the mall.

 

[jobo]

Police just arrested 61 year old George Joseph Sunderland…living in Moosoneee….with the 1983 unsolved murders of Susan Tice And Erin Gilmore in Toronto.
DNA.
Nice to finally see someone charged.

 

[LadyL]

I love Othram and I love DNA technology! RIP ladies and may any other of crimes connected to him be solved.

 

[Gina20]

Front view now:

 

[dotr]

Joseph George Sutherland, 60, arrested in 1983 Toronto killings of Erin Gilmour and Susan Tice

‘This is a day that I, and we, have been waiting almost an entire lifetime for,’ Sean McCowan, Gilmour’s brother said.

www.thestar.com

By Wendy Gillis

''Both investigations went cold, and dogged police for decades, until a major break came in 2008, thanks to advances in DNA technology, which enabled police to conclude that Tice and Gilmour had been assaulted and murdered by the same man.

But who that man was remained a mystery for another decade. In 2019, Toronto police teamed up with U.S.-based lab Othram Inc. to produce a viable DNA profile from genetic material that had been left at the scene.

The profile was challenging to develop, Dr. Kristen Mittelman, Chief Develepment Officer at Othram Inc., said in an interview Monday. It was contaminated, degraded and had been mixed in with the genetic material of his victims.

The stakes are high, Mittelman notes, because DNA sequencing is a destructive process: the genetic material can be wrecked in the process of building a profile. They only run the sequencing “if we know we can build the profile,” she said.''

In general, once a genetic profile is created, investigators submit the genetic information to an ancestry website, such as GEDmatch, allowing them to compare the sample to the hundreds of thousands of other genetic profiles submitted by people seeking genealogical information.''

George Joseph Sutherland Technical Services Technician at Saskatchewan Indian Gaming Authority - Google Search

 

[Gina20]

Joseph George Sutherland, 60, arrested in 1983 Toronto killings of Erin Gilmour and Susan Tice

‘This is a day that I, and we, have been waiting almost an entire lifetime for,’ Sean McCowan, Gilmour’s brother said.

www.thestar.com

By Wendy Gillis

''Both investigations went cold, and dogged police for decades, until a major break came in 2008, thanks to advances in DNA technology, which enabled police to conclude that Tice and Gilmour had been assaulted and murdered by the same man.

But who that man was remained a mystery for another decade. In 2019, Toronto police teamed up with U.S.-based lab Othram Inc. to produce a viable DNA profile from genetic material that had been left at the scene.

The profile was challenging to develop, Dr. Kristen Mittelman, Chief Develepment Officer at Othram Inc., said in an interview Monday. It was contaminated, degraded and had been mixed in with the genetic material of his victims.

The stakes are high, Mittelman notes, because DNA sequencing is a destructive process: the genetic material can be wrecked in the process of building a profile. They only run the sequencing “if we know we can build the profile,” she said.''

In general, once a genetic profile is created, investigators submit the genetic information to an ancestry website, such as GEDmatch, allowing them to compare the sample to the hundreds of thousands of other genetic profiles submitted by people seeking genealogical information.''

George Joseph Sutherland Technical Services Technician at Saskatchewan Indian Gaming Authority - Google Search

View attachment 383337

View attachment 383338

On his FB page, he asked recently if anyone knew an electrician. You'd think he'd know where to find one, if he lived in the town from 2009 onward as his LinkedIn stated. Let's assume he did live there for the past 13 years. He might have made trips out on the Polar Bear Express or by plane. Unless he rented a vehicle, got rides from friends or borrowed a vehicle (four wheels or two), he'd be using public transit, taxis, Uber, and walking at his destination. That might indicate his behavior before and after his crimes. As he seems to have been steadily employed since 2009, his trips out would have been limited to his holiday allotment. Christmas a popular time to travel. He came from a very large extended family, which likely gave him many places to stay. He really was the invisible man. If he murdered Margaret McWilliam, he came very close to being caught.

He must have stalked his victims. He knew they were alone. He sexually assaulted and murdered (allegedly) Erin Gilmour in a matter of minutes.

At least 39 years to kill: this is horrendous.

 

[branmuffin]

His FB says he is from Fort Albany. The Sutherland name is built into the settlement's history there, since the HBC arrived.

Yes that's less than 60 miles from Moosonee.

 

[branmuffin]

On his FB page, he asked recently if anyone knew an electrician. You'd think he'd know where to find one, if he lived in the town from 2009 onward as his LinkedIn stated. Let's assume he did live there for the past 13 years. He might have made trips out on the Polar Bear Express or by plane. Unless he rented a vehicle, got rides from friends or borrowed a vehicle (four wheels or two), he'd be using public transit, taxis, Uber, and walking at his destination. That might indicate his behavior before and after his crimes. As he seems to have been steadily employed since 2009, his trips out would have been limited to his holiday allotment. Christmas a popular time to travel. He came from a very large extended family, which likely gave him many places to stay. He really was the invisible man. If he murdered Margaret McWilliam, he came very close to being caught.

He must have stalked his victims. He knew they were alone. He sexually assaulted and murdered (allegedly) Erin Gilmour in a matter of minutes.

At least 39 years to kill: this is horrendous.

Respectfully, I think you may be comparing living in northern Ontario to life in southern Ontario. They are light years apart. Moosonee regularly has boil water advisories. First Nations Reserves in northern Ontario like Pikangikum, Grassy Narrows, Attawapiskat and numerous other reserves have been living with water poisoned by mercury for nearly 50 years. The furthest you can drive in northern Ontario is Pickle Lake which is about 500 km west of Moosonee. Traveling is either by ice roads in the winter or flights.

In Moosonee during the summer everything is covered by red dust that gets everywhere, your lungs, your electronic devices. Nothing lasts. Living in northern Ontario is the exact opposite of living in lets say, Toronto or Barrie.

When I worked for the OPP the first time officers arrived at Moosonee they were unnerved seeing eight year old children walking down a road with long guns resting on their shoulders looking for Canada geese. Before the OPP got their new detachment in 2021 many officers counted the days to their next posting. It's a totally different world. IMO, as a frame of reference the new OPP detachment, which cost $20 million, is like the Taj Mahal compared to the majority of buildings in the local area.

Just trying to find plumbers and electricians in the local area is hard, most of them are in Cochrane which is a plane ride away. So you're looking for some MacGyver kind of person who is a jack of all trades, master of none.

My personal opinion is that as long as Sutherland remained in the area of Moosonee or reservation areas, the chances of him killing again was low; he'd be in his comfort zone. But if he stayed in Toronto or traveled to other southern cities seeing how other Canadians lived and experienced the negative attitudes towards aboriginals during that era, I can see him taking his rage out on women who thought he was invisible. IMO

 

[Gina20]

Respectfully, I think you may be comparing living in northern Ontario to life in southern Ontario. They are light years apart. Moosonee regularly has boil water advisories. First Nations Reserves in northern Ontario like Pikangikum, Grassy Narrows, Attawapiskat and numerous other reserves have been living with water poisoned by mercury for nearly 50 years. The furthest you can drive in northern Ontario is Pickle Lake which is about 500 km west of Moosonee. Traveling is either by ice roads in the winter or flights.

In Moosonee during the summer everything is covered by red dust that gets everywhere, your lungs, your electronic devices. Nothing lasts. Living in northern Ontario is the exact opposite of living in lets say, Toronto or Barrie.

When I worked for the OPP the first time officers arrived at Moosonee they were unnerved seeing eight year old children walking down a road with long guns resting on their shoulders looking for Canada geese. Before the OPP got their new detachment in 2021 many officers counted the days to their next posting. It's a totally different world. IMO, as a frame of reference the new OPP detachment, which cost $20 million, is like the Taj Mahal compared to the majority of buildings in the local area.

Just trying to find plumbers and electricians in the local area is hard, most of them are in Cochrane which is a plane ride away. So you're looking for some MacGyver kind of person who is a jack of all trades, master of none.

My personal opinion is that as long as Sutherland remained in the area of Moosonee or reservation areas, the chances of him killing again was low; he'd be in his comfort zone. But if he stayed in Toronto or traveled to other southern cities seeing how other Canadians lived and experienced the negative attitudes towards aboriginals during that era, I can see him taking his rage out on women who thought he was invisible. IMO

I was under the impression that a new hospital is under construction in Moosonee. Is it not? If so, it would follow that an electrician might be found at the construction site.

I used to live in a place where get to the big city, you had to drive through a community where people sat in chairs on both sides of the road during the summer months holding long guns. Let's just say you weren't welcome to stop. Also, I've flown in to fly-in communities and landed on a frozen lake. I've been to places where boats or the ice road are the "roads". I've heard from the people how the dogs won't eat fish from the river because it's tainted. Yes, I've followed Attawapiskat.

 

[branmuffin]

I was under the impression that a new hospital is under construction in Moosonee. Is it not? If so, it would follow that an electrician might be found at the construction site.

I used to live in a place where get to the big city, you had to drive through a community where people sat in chairs on both sides of the road during the summer months holding long guns. Let's just say you weren't welcome to stop. Also, I've flown in to fly-in communities and landed on a frozen lake. I've been to places where boats or the ice road are the "roads". I've heard from the people how the dogs won't eat fish from the river because it's tainted. Yes, I've followed Attawapiskat.

That hospital is probably about five years away. Requests for Proposals only closed in August. It is sorely needed.