Casey & Family Psychological Profile #6

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Perfect example of KC disassociating...listen to the audio released of Tammy Unser in the medical part of jail, on the day Caylee was found. KC head in her hands, sweaty palms, anxiety (it appears), then she immediately starts talking about football. Classic disassociating, isn't it?

http://cfnews13.com/News/Sidebar/20...gs_released_by_law_enforcement.html?refresh=1
scroll down to Lt. Unser audio


KC also said aloud, "I can't cry about this because it's not real", or something like that. Then she started talking about football. That's how she's coping with this horrific tragedy... telling herself it's not real and believing it. That's why she's so cool and collected all the time. Somehow she can do it.
 
The following is an excerpt from the a profile of Casey that was completed on 09/21/08, bold added. IMO, it still holds up quite well.

http://crimsonshadows.net/content/view/168/140/

There is significant pathology in all three domains (Cognitive, Behavior, and Existential) and for all three character types (Type A, Type B and Type C). The overall profile and each domain is dominated by Type C characters, which reflects an extremely self-centered and self-justifying individual who is functionally possessed by the active pursuit of all types of pleasure and comfort, sacrificing others in the process, and the simultaneous avoidance of pain/discomfort, including personal and social responsibilities. This person's imagination is full of self-serving fantasies and she has an unbridled willingness to act-out the desires of her heart, all at the expense of others. The high Type B characteristics in the Cognitive domain indicate a preoccupation with matters of power and control, which in combination with the high Type A characteristics, indicate exceptionally poor judgment and an almost total disregard for consequences. This person wears cognitive blinders and others are valued only to the degree that they afford her some type of gain or the avoidance of undesired consequences.

The Behavior domain reflects a unrestrained level of acting-out (Type C) and very proactive competition with others for attention, control, and being on center stage. The acting-out is often dramatic, intrusive, manipulative, generally indifferent to others, and very likely to escalate until limits are externally imposed or personal resources are exhausted. Alcohol and other substance abuse are likely and the pleasure seeking will always exceed the pleasure found, leading to new excesses and related personal deficits, both physical and psychological. However, it is the social reinforcement and control that dominates, even to the degree that alcohol and drugs become secondary sources of pleasure/comfort and pain/discomfort avoidance.

Russell
 
Russel, Thank you for posting this. I feel this sums up KC to a tee. I'm curious as to if this assessment of kC would help prosecutors in forming their questions at trial to derive more authentic answers from the defense. Do I make sense?
 
Russel, Thank you for posting this. I feel this sums up KC to a tee. I'm curious as to if this assessment of kC would help prosecutors in forming their questions at trial to derive more authentic answers from the defense. Do I make sense?

You certainly make sense to me. IMO, the full assessment would certainly help a forensic clinician or anyone familiar with this profiling technique (not many are). A while back, I posted a set of general interpersonal guidelines for interviewing Casey, formulated in a Good Cop – Bad Cop type of format. I have no idea if LE read them or not, but I see no reason that the prosecutors could not use the same information to advantage. The following is a rather long excerpt from that post:

It is simply a matter of using the color coded correlation charts to locate the appropriate Personality Disorders and matching them to the corresponding role playing scripts, which for Casey includes, in rank order: Histrionic, Narcissistic, and Borderline Personality Disorders. No interpretation or analysis of the graphics and charts is required.

The “good cop – bad cop” role playing scripts are essentially what-to-do and what-not-to-do interpersonal guidelines based on the subject’s personality characteristics. Generally, there should be one outstanding “good cop,” but there may be one composite “bad cop” or several “bad cops”. Of course, hostage negotiators would generally want to follow the “good cop” guidelines and to specifically avoid relating as a “bad cop.”

1. KEEP IT SAFE
2. KEEP IT LEGAL
3. PROVIDE PROTECTIVE AND SUPPORTIVE STRUCTURE ACCORDING TO POLICY AND PROCEDURE

301.50 Histrionic Personality Disorder
Paraphrased notes from DSM-IV-TR™ (American Psychiatric Association: Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, Text Revision. Washington, DC, American Psychiatric Association, 2000)
A pervasive pattern of excessive emotionality and attention-seeking ... five or more of the following:
...is uncomfortable in situations in which he or she is not the center of attention
...interaction with others is often characterized by inappropriate sexually seductive or provocative behavior
...displays rapidly shifting an shallow expression of emotions
...consistently uses physical appearance to draw attention to self
...has a style of speech that is excessively impressionistic and lacking in detail
...shows self-dramatization, theatricality, and exaggerated expression of emotion
...is suggestible, i.e., easily influenced by others or circumstances
...considers relationships to be more intimate than they actually are

GOOD Cop Interpersonal Guidelines:
-Explore feelings and reasons for current emotional state
-Give them lots of attention
-Give them center stage
-Expect them to flirt
-Be a strong authority figure
-Show protective concern
-Do not expect much depth

BAD Cop Interpersonal Guidelines:
-Interrupt by asking for explanations, details, examples ...
-Actively compete for center stage ... restrict “acting-out”
-Minimize the importance of feelings
-Make others involved more important

301.81 Narcissistic Personality Disorder
Paraphrased notes from DSM-IV-TR™ (American Psychiatric Association: Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, Text Revision. Washington, DC, American Psychiatric Association, 2000):
A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy ... five or more of the following:
...has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, ...expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
...is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
...believes s/he is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
...requires excessive admiration
...has a high sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
...is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
...lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
...is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
...shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

GOOD Cop Interpersonal Guidelines:
-Show respect, admiration, and be easily impressed
-“Understand” their special abilities and attributes
-Present yourself as important and having “connections”

BAD Cop Interpersonal Guidelines:
-Do not cater to in any way
-Relate to with indifference
-Comment on their negative characteristics
-Belittle their achievements
-Portray them as ordinary, common, and dull

301.83 Borderline Personality Disorder:
Paraphrased notes from DSM-IV-TR™ (American Psychiatric Association: Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, Text Revision. Washington, DC, American Psychiatric Association, 2000):
A pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image, and affects, and marked impulsivity ... five or more of the following:
...frantic efforts (other than those in item 5) to avoid real or imagined abandonment
...a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation
...identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self
...impulsivity in at least two areas (other than those in item 5) that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating).
...recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilation.
...affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days).

GOOD Cop Interpersonal Guidelines:
-Be engaging, but “with them”
-Join their point of view
-Let them reinforce you
-Indicate care and concern for their well-being. Set limits.
-At hints of self-injury, set the limits according to policy and then be the one to “rescue” within policy guidelines

BAD Cop Interpersonal Guidelines:
-Be aware of their fear of abandonment ... being left alone ... having no one to care
-Tell them to grow up, get a life
-Keep the focus in the present and on their behavior, their choices, their responsibilities

My personal opinions based on public information,
Russell

As above, just my opinions.
Russell
 
Russell, you have explained this type of police interview so well. It is intrigeing to see how the good cop bad cop plays out alittle differently depending on which disorder. Once again my hat is tipped to you.
 
Okay, I've been wondering this for a long time: if a sociopath/psychopath is someone who lacks empathy, a conscience, human emotions, etc., are they that way because those things have never been there or have they managed to disassociate themselves from them to the point of no return? Could Casey be a sociopath because she's always coped by disassociating?

Sociopathy is thought to be caused by heredity, and encouraged by enviornment-- at least that's the latest.

She doesn't have a dissociative disorder. She knows exactly who and where she is, and precisely what she's doing, all the time.
 
I understand that persons with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) are basically replete of empathy. The are often described as "empty shells" with no real identity of their own. They become adept at reading people and reflecting back what they believe others would find to be positive character traits. Emotional responses, besides anger, are often the result of mimicry because they are so far out of touch with their own feelings.

It is my opinion that at least one of the Anthonys has Narcissistic tendencies if not full-blown NPD. If you look at videos of KC speaking to different people, you might notice that it seems like KC is developing a "personality" or "character" to suit the individual to whom she is talking. Narcissists are often referred to as "chameleons".

All this is JMO; I am not a professional unless you consider someone who's BTDT and been the target of a Narcissist a professional. LOL!

I think you are right, and she got it from CA.
 
You guys are good, so I am sure this has already been discussed. But I just read an article and about Munchausen By Proxy Syndrom and it made me think of KC. Someone suffering from "Munchausen by Proxy Syndrome," may thrive on the attention over her little daughters tragic kidnapping." This syndrome, first described in 1977, is characterized by caregivers who intentionally injure, suffocate, or poison their child for the sympathy of others. The "MSBP" mother usually had an unwanted child, or is unmarried. This may explain why KC, despite the harm she would eventually cause Caylee, would not let CA have her. KC showed many signs of having a compulsive need for dramatic sympathy such as lying to AH about her dad having a stroke or lying to JG about her brother sexual advances.

If she was a MBP, she would have a history of dragging Caylee to doctors and hospitals. She didn't do that. Also, CA might have kiboshed any attempt to simulate or induce illness in Caylee.

No, I think she was a common sociopath. Theuy lie and make things up, too.

I think part of her lies to JG about LA were also to "split" the guys. Keep them from talking to eachother. In addition to getting attention.
 
If she was a MBP, she would have a history of dragging Caylee to doctors and hospitals. She didn't do that. Also, CA might have kiboshed any attempt to simulate or induce illness in Caylee.

No, I think she was a common sociopath. Theuy lie and make things up, too.

I think part of her lies to JG about LA were also to "split" the guys. Keep them from talking to eachother. In addition to getting attention.


Why go to so much trouble? This is Casey we are talking about! Lying is so much easier. When this all started, I checked her and her friends' myspace/facebook pages and there were many postings about how Caylee was sick or the murderer was sick.. Of course, people get colds..
 
Okay, I've been wondering this for a long time: if a sociopath/psychopath is someone who lacks empathy, a conscience, human emotions, etc., are they that way because those things have never been there or have they managed to disassociate themselves from them to the point of no return? Could Casey be a sociopath because she's always coped by disassociating?

I think you are correct ... this woman drove around for 2 or 3 days with her daughter's dead body in the car with the smell that she admitted she smelled she had to disassociate or she is insane...
 
It would be nice if the Anthonys would seek professional help from a Psychologist. They truly need to see the big picture here. In watching them, it's almost like they keep pushing any thought of KC harming Caylee (much less killing her) out of their mind. They just won't let themselves go there. Perhaps if they would accept the truth, KC could at least face what she has done and in doing that, face them. How horrible is it that she can't confide in her own parents?

I do know that KC will never confess, but if she could learn to trust in her parents (someone other than JB), perhaps they could help her in her defense (competent counsel).

Have they ever said, "Even if you killed Caylee, we still love you, let us help you?" Have they given her that out yet? I just have to wonder.

I absolutely want KC convicted, but I do not think she is getting good representation. To go through this charade with JB is a waste of time and money. She needs to be convicted properly, fairly and with no chance of a mistrial, new trial or dismissal. KWIM?
 
. . .Have they ever said, "Even if you killed Caylee, we still love you, let us help you?" Have they given her that out yet? I just have to wonder.

I absolutely want KC convicted, but I do not think she is getting good representation. To go through this charade with JB is a waste of time and money. She needs to be convicted properly, fairly and with no chance of a mistrial, new trial or dismissal. KWIM?

How dare her parents say that (your first statement above)! Look what happened when they tried to broach any topic of Caylee's whereabouts during the jail phone call
and those jail visits. KC's Rage Reaction! Look what happened when the DP attorney wanted to have KC examined by the psychologist in the Unabomber case! He was
quickly out the door!

Agree, agree with your second statement. There is a Svengali on this case, and the problem is that KC is too naive (not that sociopathic) to see through her ineffective,
destructive representation. Or. . .maybe she's NOT naive at all! Maybe this is The Plan--acquittal by virtue of improper representation.

Then, everyone will write a book, do a film or two, and get rich quick!
 
From the little I have read. "Munchausen By Proxy Syndrome" involves damaging a child and reveling in the attention/medical help etc. Not though, actually letting the child die, because then the attention stops. If this were a "Munchausen By Proxy Syndrome" case you would expect KC to be broadcasting news of the "tragedy" from the outset. So I think she would have reported an "accident" straight away, or perhaps dumped the body and reported the "kidnapping". Keep in mind the fact that KC never reported anything. It appears that she would have just carried on and reported nothing and so got no publicity and sympathy. So NOT "Munchausen By Proxy Syndrome" in my view.

agreed but there is a part of me that believes that both KC and Cindy are somehow thriving on the attention they are receiving - tje dynamic is similar to one with MBPS.
 
agreed but there is a part of me that believes that both KC and Cindy are somehow thriving on the attention they are receiving - tje dynamic is similar to one with MBPS.

Perhaps you are right as things have turned out. Certainly heaps of attention- even internationally.

However my point was in relation to the original crime. It was not a MBPS thing because attention was avoided for 31 days. In fact seems KC never intended reporting anything.
 
It would be nice if the Anthonys would seek professional help from a Psychologist. They truly need to see the big picture here. In watching them, it's almost like they keep pushing any thought of KC harming Caylee (much less killing her) out of their mind. They just won't let themselves go there. Perhaps if they would accept the truth, KC could at least face what she has done and in doing that, face them. How horrible is it that she can't confide in her own parents?

I do know that KC will never confess, but if she could learn to trust in her parents (someone other than JB), perhaps they could help her in her defense (competent counsel).

Have they ever said, "Even if you killed Caylee, we still love you, let us help you?" Have they given her that out yet? I just have to wonder.

I absolutely want KC convicted, but I do not think she is getting good representation. To go through this charade with JB is a waste of time and money. She needs to be convicted properly, fairly and with no chance of a mistrial, new trial or dismissal. KWIM?

Sociopaths don't face or acknowledge the damage that they do.

It doesn't matter what the As try to do, or are willing to do. KC is not going to go there.

KC is not a sweet, misunderstood little thing. She's a monster.
 
Perhaps you are right as things have turned out. Certainly heaps of attention- even internationally.

However my point was in relation to the original crime. It was not a MBPS thing because attention was avoided for 31 days. In fact seems KC never intended reporting anything.

Agree.
 
Okay, I've been wondering this for a long time: if a sociopath/psychopath is someone who lacks empathy, a conscience, human emotions, etc., are they that way because those things have never been there or have they managed to disassociate themselves from them to the point of no return? Could Casey be a sociopath because she's always coped by disassociating?

The latest theory is that some people are born sociopathic (bon deficient), and learn to get along in the world, or don't. Most sociopaths are not criminals. But, most criminals are sociopaths.

Upbringing can correct the behavior, or not, to a degree.

Bottom line-- KC does not care about anyone but KC. And, she has chosen not to grow up.

Carry on:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84153"]Casey & Family Psychological Profile #7[/ame]
 
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