Casey & Family Psychological Profile #8

[impatientredhead]

You're quite right, that would have been an escape route for KC--one she would have been forced to take if CA hadn't wanted to maintain control over her by subtly supporting all KC's character weaknesses. I need to clarify here that I hold KC totally accountable for the things she's done.

I merely blame CA for creating an atmosphere that nurtured and supported all of KC's vilest traits. I think, in the end, CA created a monster that occasionally turned on her, a monster who CA learned to be wary of when cornered or mishandled. As happened on the night of June 15th.

:clap::clap::clap:

As I have said I was raised by a woman like Cindy, just add alcohol/prescription pills/and a violent temper to the mix. She was a mixture of control freak/victim. I dealt with being humiliated, no privacy (control), being the adult in the relationship, years of suicide threats, having the house torn to shreds when she was out of meds because she was convinced she had hid some for emergencies (never saw that actually pan out). Learned to lie really effectively partially because she was very prone to lying but mostly because there were so many secrets to hide that you had to be a good liar. And I also got pregnant my senior year.

I can empathize greatly with the environment Casey was raised in and how much it impacts you. I understand the overwhelming sense of being trapped by a pregnancy and seeing your world crash in on you (while my mom tried to talk me into letting her and her pedophile boyfriend raise the baby so I could have my life back). Over my dead body, which seemed like a feasible solution.

The first day I was legal to be out of that house I was gone, gone, gone. Never spent another night in her house. Never asked for a dime of help (too many strings, too much control). She didn't speak to me for 10 years before she died.

Casey had choices. Many more options than most young adults in these situation have at their disposal. She didn't exercise any of them to anyone's benefit. I don't know if this mental/personality disorder + childhood abuse + circumstance? Cindy AND George are very responsible for the outcome for the choices they made, the toxic environment they created, and for failing to intervene when their daughter was out of control and their granddaughter was helpless. They are a piece of the picture, but Casey is 100% responsible for being an even worse mother than Cindy was.

And lastly as far as Casey being afraid of Cindy physically on the 15th, she may have been, but having grown up with beatings/bullying evolving to full out brawls (we were that neighbor!) when I realized I was big enough to fight back. I am guessing Casey was holding her own and initiating some of those attacks. She seems prone to rage.

 

[Brini]

Brini, When did you hear/see that Amy told KC this? Also, I thought Amy was a relatively new friend, in regards to her having multiple partners in Highschool. I thought is was Kio who made this statement?

Maybe it is Kio. I might be getting my old friends mixed up.

 

[Brini]

Wow-I love this thread! So many good and interesting ideas being examined! For me-I see Cindy using Ricks wedding as a means of embarrasment for KC. I'm sure Cindy bought that blue dress and little white sweater that shows off KC's belly on purpose. Yeah, Cindy came off looking like a fool denying KC's pregnancy, but I'm sure it wasn't the first time she used this tactic and as we have seen, in the past year, Cindy comes off looking like a fool plenty of times.
Cindy's a narcissist-her thinking is all about her. She drags KC to Rick's wedding when she didn't have to -to punish KC! JMO
Cindy thinks people will feel sorry for her. She wants people to think "poor woman-look what SHE has to deal with!"
Cindy loves to play the martyr role. She's putting KC thru the wringer in public and probably told her "just stand there and smile and say nothing. I'll do all the talking."
KC plays her role-George plays his role and Cindy plays hers-they all have roles to play or there will be H3LL to pay!
As far as the paternity goes-I don't think we'll ever know-cause I don't think KC knows for sure. But, I do think something was happening in '03 and "04-but I don't think we'll ever find out for sure what it was. And if it comes from the A's-can you believe it?

KC doesn't embarrass. Not even when she gets caught red-handed stealing.

I suspect KC was trying tp embarrass CA.

 

[impatientredhead]

KC doesn't embarrass. Not even when she gets caught red-handed stealing.

I suspect KC was trying tp embarrass CA.

I think embarrassment requires a level of self awareness and ability to see through other people's eyes that none of the Anthony's seem to possess.

They all have horrible boundaries. Casey clearly does whatever she wants with no concern for how it effects others. Cindy wants to run the investigation, tell the media what and how they will report, and has no indication of ever understanding why they were receiving hostility from the public, let alone being apologetic or embarrassed.

Lee showed his boundaries with his own investigation and the dog/lady/sign/memorial incidents. And George, the man of the family.... I will just leave that alone.

 

[MaedchenX]

KC doesn't embarrass. Not even when she gets caught red-handed stealing.

I suspect KC was trying tp embarrass CA.

I agree. I think Casey, whom Rick stated was not expected to be there, manipulated her parents to attend knowing full well that this would push the buttons of people who we have seen are so consumed by public perception of their family as "normal". They are all disturbed and clearly play off of one another in the most passive aggressive ways.

 

[Brini]

Well, the bottom line is that none of the As have ever been able to "force" KC to do anything.

They couldn't make her stay in school.
They couldn't make her work for a living.
They couldn't make her tell the truth.
They couldn't (wouldn't) stop her from stealing from them.
They couldn't (according to them) make her tell who sired Caylee.
They couldn't stop her from partying, and screwing around.
We've all seen them try to wheedle information about what happened to Caylee, from her. She set her brakes and turned to silent stone.

Add to that the females in that house are dominant, but KC is perfectly capable of taking on CA (CA wheedling for information, while visiting KC in jail).

The idea that she'd passively and helplessly become a sex slave to one of the two first-degree relatives, or yield to being a a forced breeder becomes a bit absurd.

As willful and aggressive as she is in every area of her life, why would she become a passive victim in either/both of those two scenarios?

KC has always done whatever she wanted, without regard to anyone else. That was her downfall. That was also her choice.

Face it, folks. Some people are naturally shallow, promiscuous, greedy, manipulative, and/or just plain bad. It happens. Even among the young and cute.

 

[Brini]

Re my bold-- AND I mean no disrespect to RG, but he strikes me as being one very controlling, self-righteous guy who would have been more than a match for CA in any contest of wills. Neither CA, nor even Jesse, could win a battle against RG and his BFF--God.

I sound snide about RG when the truth is I'm always a little uneasy when confronted with the kind of religious zeal that RG exhibits. I keep wondering how difficult it might be for a young person like JG to learn to think for himself and become independent under the umbrella of such loving parental tyranny.

Whoops, I've not only betrayed a personal hang-up of mine, I've also strayed off topic! :blowkiss:

RG is the one who tracked down KC's infidelities to JG on the Net. He's also the one who insisted upon a paternity test.

 

[Brini]

Will someone please tell me what proof we have that Casey had multiple sex partners in her teens.
That keeps coming up and my gut says: NO jmo

Well, she was pregnant at 19, and had a history with guys, before that.

My guess is, however, that it started in her late teens. When the hormones got hit with the idea of adult freedoms (but not adult responsibilitIes).

 

[impatientredhead]

Well, she was pregnant at 19, and had a history with guys, before that.

My guess is, however, that it started in her late teens. When the hormones got hit with the idea of adult freedoms (but not adult responsibilitIes).

Or when she realized she could use it to get what she wanted from boys. Her sexual comments in her texts always came across to me as if it was a commodity.

 

[Brini]

I agree. I think Casey, whom Rick stated was not expected to be there, manipulated her parents to attend knowing full well that this would push the buttons of people who we have seen are so consumed by public perception of their family as "normal". They are all disturbed and clearly play off of one another in the most passive aggressive ways.

Yep! Per Rick, KC's stealing, lying, and everything else had long caused a rift within the extended family.

The obvious pregnancy lie blew the rift wide open.

 

[Friday]

I agree and have really given up on Casey's thought process.
The part of the pregnancy denial that interest me is Cindy.
They weren't acknowledging the pregnancy in public. They hadn't decorated the nursery. So either Cindy was operating under the baby is being given up for adoption and we are just going to deny any of this ever happened OR she had a plan for how to explain the sudden appearance of a baby a couple of months later. Was she going to tell people her and George adopted a newborn? Well, you guys were right, Casey was pregnant, silly me?

And George just standing by and letting this little charade go down. I know it is because George is seen as a sympathetic figure, a victim of Cindy, but he makes me absolutely insane. He is such a contributor to this family pathology. He is a crucial and required piece of the puzzle. And every bit as pathological as Cindy and Casey. He just wraps it up in a more palatable package than the pitbull does.

From all I've seen, GA appears to be a fairly attractive man of limited intelligence and extremely weak character who attempts to hide his weaknesses behind artificial smiles, foolish threats, and childish temper tantrums. He is in every way a perfect foil, and tool, for CA.

Although I detest CA and KC, they at least are proving to be frustratingly worthy foes in our battle for justice for Caylee. George, however, is just an embarrassment--in fact he's actually managed to become an embarrassment to both sides. LOL

I'm in the minority (again :crazy but I think you're all going to be in for a huge shock if the prosecution gets ole George on the witness stand and starts probing into his original reaction to KC's pregnancy, to having KC and Caylee living in the Hope Spring house...and exactly when he developed the all-consuming Grandfatherly love for, and total pleasure in, little Caylee. You know--the kind of doting Grandfatherly adoration that he's talked about and wept about during interviews, at the memorial, and during the deposition.

I don't doubt for a moment that Cindy adored that child and lived for her. But I have a whole lot of doubts about how devoted to Caylee that George was prior to July 15th.
NO--I am not hinting that I think GA ever harmed a hair on Caylee's head. I don't.

 

[PrintGal]

Friday, I am right with you on GA.

Do you also believe the suicide attempt was not real?

 

[impatientredhead]

Well, the bottom line is that none of the As have ever been able to "force" KC to do anything.

They couldn't make her stay in school.
They couldn't make her work for a living.
They couldn't make her tell the truth.
They couldn't (wouldn't) stop her from stealing from them.
They couldn't (according to them) make her tell who sired Caylee.
They couldn't stop her from partying, and screwing around.
We've all seen them try to wheedle information about what happened to Caylee, from her. She set her brakes and turned to silent stone.

Add to that the females in that house are dominant, but KC is perfectly capable of taking on CA (CA wheedling for information, while visiting KC in jail).

<snip> bbm.

I just posted in the other thread, where it is probably OT completely, but this dynamic to me is almost identical to when a father who has beat and bullied his son one day finds himself tangling with a young man in his physical peak and isn't going to take it anymore. The power shifts and dad finds himself on the receiving end of the lessons he has taught over the years.

Cindy was cruel, cold, she bullied, controlled, manipulated and now the tide has shifted and she is on the receiving end of those lessons that she taught to a sociopath. Casey is very controlling. The person barking and growling is not always the one in control.

 

[maswondering2]

You're quite right, that would have been an escape route for KC--one she would have been forced to take if CA hadn't wanted to maintain control over her by subtly supporting all KC's character weaknesses. I need to clarify here that I hold KC totally accountable for the things she's done.

I merely blame CA for creating an atmosphere that nurtured and supported all of KC's vilest traits. I think, in the end, CA created a monster that occasionally turned on her, a monster who CA learned to be wary of when cornered or mishandled. As happened on the night of June 15th.

my point exactly earlier Friday....She "mothered" the monster she created... she made her dependent on her by the enabling the way she did. Casey wasnt gonna make a choice ot get a job...Mom was giving her $ if not she would steal it with no repercussion....she supported Casey's weakness.Casey made her own choices....CA just didnt teach her to accept resp or "man Up " to anything.

 

[Brini]

I just posted in the other thread, where it is probably OT completely, but this dynamic to me is almost identical to when a father who has beat and bullied his son one day finds himself tangling with a young man in his physical peak and isn't going to take it anymore. The power shifts and dad finds himself on the receiving end of the lessons he has taught over the years.

Cindy was cruel, cold, she bullied, controlled, manipulated and now the tide has shifted and she is on the receiving end of those lessons that she taught to a sociopath. Casey is very controlling. The person barking and growling is not always the one in control.

Yep! KC appears to be the superior controller, all the way around. As GA said, she's "the CEO."

 

[blueherron]

Totally agreed that she doesn't meet insanity criteria. I was actually thinking more on how Andrea L was going to portray KC, not necessarily how KC really is. Interesting article on her philosophy in defending clients:

http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2005/11/behind_the_musi.html

"Lyon has said that she doesn't believe in "pure evil," that for every violent crime there is a reason, "a dark and complex key out of the defendant's childhood."

The article(s) you cited demonstrate how Andrea L. works a death penalty case. I think both Cindy and George are going to take a real beating during the penalty phase.
I believe Casey won't see them or talk to them because she has projected onto them and views them as the ultimate cause of Caylee's death. They are being held at arm's length from the defense by Baez, because they won't help Casey's cause during the guilt portion of the trial.... but will be pointed to as the "reason" for the violent crime...."the dark and complex key out of the defendent's childhood" during the penalty portion.

 

[essies]

KC doesn't embarrass. Not even when she gets caught red-handed stealing.

I suspect KC was trying tp embarrass CA.

I agree! But, that doesn't stop CA from trying! Remember the birthday video and the "playful" cake in the face interaction with Caylee caught in the middle? Over the years there's been alot of :croc:and:bigstick:andython:andoke:and:argue:!
It's too bad Caylee wasn't adopted-then at least she would have had a chance!

 

[impatientredhead]

From all I've seen, GA appears to be a fairly attractive man of limited intelligence and extremely weak character who attempts to hide his weaknesses behind artificial smiles, foolish threats, and childish temper tantrums. He is in every way a perfect foil, and tool, for CA.

Although I detest CA and KC, they at least are proving to be frustratingly worthy foes in our battle for justice for Caylee. George, however, is just an embarrassment--in fact he's actually managed to become an embarrassment to both sides. LOL

I'm in the minority (again :crazy but I think you're all going to be in for a huge shock if the prosecution gets ole George on the witness stand and starts probing into his original reaction to KC's pregnancy, to having KC and Caylee living in the Hope Spring house...and exactly when he developed the all-consuming Grandfatherly love for, and total pleasure in, little Caylee. You know--the kind of doting Grandfatherly adoration that he's talked about and wept about during interviews, at the memorial, and during the deposition.

I don't doubt for a moment that Cindy adored that child and lived for her. But I have a whole lot of doubts about how devoted to Caylee that George was prior to July 15th.
NO--I am not hinting that I think GA ever harmed a hair on Caylee's head. I don't.

George is not being used by Cindy. He is the opposite side of the same coin. He lacks what Cindy has and vice versa. This dynamic does not work without the other one. He is not some dimwitted stockholm victim. He is a grown man who passed the police academy at some point in his life, ran a business for a period. He is fully competent.

My personal experience makes me very leary of the "good hearted man/woman that stands by their clearly unstable and horrible husband/wife"... while they take all the pats on the back and meanwhile the kids stuck in the situation has to deal with their inconsistent responses and the overwhelming life lesson that the people who "care most about you" will fail to protect you time and time and time again. That is a fun message to try to unwire from your brain if you want to have a healthy relationship sometime in your adult life.

I tend to be of the belief that the people who step into the role George is in have horrifying behavior/baggage just below the surface and they get a huge benefit by being with a partner that is so loud and visible in their dysfunction that the focus never makes it to their own.

 

[MaedchenX]

I have followed all of these psych threads with great interest, and though I agreed that Casey showed all the signs of being a sociopath, it was difficult for me to grasp the totality of what that meant until I read a fictional account of another female sociopath that I better understood the behavior (In the Woods by Tana French, OK read, the portrayal of the sociopathic characters however was extremely edifying). I have never encountered anyone quite like Casey, sure I know people who are narcissists and have other personality disorders but I am fairly certain I have never encountered a true sociopath (at 23 I'm sure there is plenty of time for that). I think it this is why is was difficult for me, and remains difficult for others to understand how and why Casey acts as she does without any other underlying clinical or psychological reason for her behavior.

 

[impatientredhead]

The article(s) you cited demonstrate how Andrea L. works a death penalty case. I think both Cindy and George are going to take a real beating during the penalty phase.
I believe Casey won't see them or talk to them because she has projected onto them and views them as the ultimate cause of Caylee's death. They are being held at arm's length from the defense by Baez, because they won't help Casey's cause during the guilt portion of the trial.... but will be pointed to as the "reason" for the violent crime...."the dark and complex key out of the defendent's childhood" during the penalty portion.

Casey isn't seeing them because first and foremost she doesn't want to and she loves being in that position to tell Cindy no. And secondly because JB doesn't want to have to compete for his voice to be heard and he doesn't want to debate strategy with Cindy. One of his better decisions actually.....