Casey's Psych Evals unsealed

[BigFatMommyDog]

I worked in mental health over fifteen years before I met a female psychopath. It is a severe borderline personality with malignant narcissism, in my opinion. It put me out of the business forever. It is the most difficult and scariest situation you could ever be in. I met her when the jail she was in just couldn't handle her anymore.

butShe came to a clinic for rehab for Borderlines...OMG! Their pathology gets right under your skin. It doesn't matter how well trained you are. I will never be able to convey what it was like. Just imagine yourself being locked up w/casey anthony all day...and you have to listen to her. If you as much as give a look of not approving, you are going to suffer the wrath but she won't tell you she is mad. You will never know what hit you. They are cunning and manipulative and will use your words against you. You will scratch your head in disbelief. You doubt yourself. You can't believe what is happening.

It is a more than an uncomfortable situation. You can never get a grasp on what is going on. It crosses your mind that they may kill you. You begin to question your own sanity. One needs to stay away from this type...thank goodness, many never cross their paths. To this day, I get upset from the thoughts of being around her back then. I never want to work or be near a severe Borderline with Malignant narcissism for the rest of my life.

I think I owe you a "thanks" - today I was trying to remember who had given us a rundown on malignant narcissism/borderline and I could not remember "who", but I remembered the "what" - many thanks friend Whisperer - a bit ashamed I couldn't remember you - an "old" friend.

Much of what you have said throughout supports the almost surreal "Stockholm Syndrome" sort of reactions we have seen exhibited by the players in this case. Your insights have been illuminating and invaluable.

 

[katydid23]

Regarding Dr. W. stating that he backed up FCA's story with Jeffrey Hopkins. Why in the heck didn't Linda or Jeff follow it up with "You know that's an imaginary person that FCA made up, right?"

He said Jeffrey Hopkins...then he quickly said Amy Huezinga. So he changed the subject himself really quickly. But I think that LDB didn't correct him because she was probably hoping he would say that same thing on the witness stand if he ever ended up there.

 

[angeldust]

anybody dr danzinger report please x

 

[mikeysmommom]

Regarding Dr. W. stating that he backed up FCA's story with Jeffrey Hopkins. Why in the heck didn't Linda or Jeff follow it up with "You know that's an imaginary person that FCA made up, right?"

It was only a deposition why say anything,She would have made a complete fool of him on the stand.

 

[Justin Tyme]

Just stop for a minute and ask yourselves....hmmmmm....myself? If my daddy came into my room holding my dead daughter.....would the first and only thing I noticed would be what she was wearing????

And then further ask yourself, "myself?" is this doctor really believing that I am telling him -- that the thing I noticed was what my dead daughter was wearing, and not actually the fact that my father was holding my DEAD daughter in his arms and he was wet only on his shirt?

OMG

OMG you having my rolling out of my chair over here. That's how it sounds when my sister and I have conversations. (snipped)ask yourself, "myself?"(snipped) I can't stop laughing. Now you've got me started. :floorlaugh:

 

[LambChop]

I doubt CA has ever witnessed a real seizure in her life.

Can they even last 40 minutes? I've been around people who have had them and they didn't last 40 minutes for sure. jmo

 

[com n sense]

Not only that, but I about fell about of my chair because the depo was supposed to explain why Casey acted the way she did for the 31 days. But he NEVER asked her about it or took any notes! In fact, he got irritated with either LDB or Ashton who kept trying to get answer out of him about the 31 days. He acted like that was totally unimportant. The most important thing was the molestation she suffered, molestation we ALL know she made up!

He is a quack and should not be allowed to be a doctor anymore!

He sounds like him & the jurors are of the same mind. They all think alike.
Him & the jurors could not move beyond that lie.

 

[NocturnalLady]

Are we discussing the psych evals in this thread or will we have a thread for each separate one? Just started wading through them and I don't want to start dumping mu thoughts in the wrong thread...

 

[GiantPickle]

Can they even last 40 minutes? I've been around people who have had them and they didn't last 40 minutes for sure. jmo

I have epilepsy. The seizure itself doesn't last that long but the confusion following one sure can.

 

[artsy_mom_of_2]

I really enjoyed Cindy's description in one of the depos (can't remember which, they're all a blur) that during once of FCA's "seizures" she was incontinent. Normally not a laughing matter but to picture her in that state gave me a chuckle :floorlaugh: Petty, I know.

I agree with everyone's feelings on these documents. What I'm struggling with is that I'm trying to find logic here when there is none. I've read FCA's text messages/MySpace messages from before Caylee's death and she appears to be a normal, loving mother...aside from calling little Caylee snot-nose. But to see the pics/vids of them being cute and loving then to hear about her only baby daughter having her bones scattered by wild animals in a swamp surrounded by trash makes no logical sense to me. I think that's what's the most frustrating. If I could get a sense of this happened, which made this happen, so this happened, etc. I could understand it. I guess that's why people are describing her as pure evil...it's the only explanation that fits! :twocents:

I'm a 26 year old single Mom of two...I got pregnant with my first at 18 and had her at 19 like *someone else* we know. I was a former party girl who was positive the world revolved around me. Then I felt the baby kick, then I saw the ultrasound, then nothing else mattered. I just.don't.understand. How can someone do this?!?! Not to mention, my 3-year-old looks nearly identical to Caylee. Makes me want to give her extra special love, if that's possible.

 

[LambChop]

Yes, yes, yes. And you know, I was more than a little creeped out that he zeroed in on the "george sexually molested me" lie. He focused, FOCUSED, focused on that to the exclusion of asking pertinent questions...like what about the 31 days? Very, very creepy. ewwwwwwww

ETA: Creepy McCreepster as my DD would say.

I think the notation that KC had "long dark hair" is a bit beyond creepy. Why would he identify her as having long dark hair.....is this a sign of mental illness because there's a lot going around.

And her noticing the clothes Caylee was wearing first......what was going through her head....."Dad, did you put those clothes on her? You know they're too small." One Dr. says he thinks Caylee was brought to her in KC's room, the other says the back porch????? jmo

 

[NocturnalLady]

It amazes me the questions Weitz did not ask. Good Lord, man, she tells you all of this stuff, and you don't ask her any questions to really validate it, like a description of the pajamas Caylee was wearing, or what daily routine she and Caylee had together? What the hell?

I was astonished at his level of ... gullibility and incuriosity (to put it nicely). He doesn't follow up on ANYTHING Casey says. AND he opines that her lack of affect and emotion is due to denial - all while being SO puzzled that she has a remarkable level of "under reporting" on her testing. He even points out that to's far below the level that even a normal person would show. Geez this guy has blinders on that are so thick! How did he fail to consider the obvious - it's not "under reporting" and denial - she's a sociopath. She DOESN'T HAVE emotions like normal people. There's a simple, obvious reason she has no affect or emotion and her testing comes up far below the stress levels that normal people would report. It's because (HELLO!) she's NOT normal.

 

[SeekingJana]

are you trained in giving and scoring the test??? I've been trying to google ALL AFTERNOON about sociopaths and other axis 2's and their ability to fake (or not) on this test, is it true in your experience that they can lie successfully???

I know there was a fella, a murderer, who helped to formulate some of the questions (that's how snowed he had them, then, after his first murders), I cannot remember who it was! been googling that one too! I wondered if I could find which questions he "helped" with (he was a big fella, like way over 6 feet, still living, anyone remember his name??)

I never heard anything about a murderer helping standardize the MMPI 2. This rather sounds like an urban legend to me, but I will look into it. Wow.

Yes, the test is given routinely and I read the reports of the Psychologists who administer it. The TEST is one part, there is also an accompanying interview with the client to discuss feelings and trends of thought which may be identified on the test. The interpretation of the answers and the assessment of the truthfulness of the test- taker is not up to the test giver. The answers have a standardized value assigned to them. A scoring booklet is needed to score the test and the answers fall into standardized categories. For example, in the formerly used MMPI, one of the questions was " I believe in God'. A person who answered No or False received a negative scoring. This question has been replaced.

I believe, theoretically, that a small number of people tested will successfully lie about IMPORTANT psychopathology. The more a person has been exposed to the MMPI, the greater their chances of " beating it" if there is significant psychopathology. This probably includes the psychiatric community, LOL.
Some references on the subject which I happen to have handy, :

Development and Use of the Mmpi-2 Content Scales
Authors: James N. Butcher, John R. Graham
ISBN: 0816618178

MMPI-2. Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory-2: Manual for administration, scoring, and interpretation
Authors: John R. Graham, Yossef S. Ben-Porath, Auke Tellegen, Grant Dahlstrom, Beverly Kaemmer James N. Butcher




These are the first 25 questions out of 567 on the MMPI:
TRUE OR FALSE
1.I like mechanics magazines
2.I have a good appetite
3.I wake up fresh & rested most mornings
4.I think I would like the work of a librarian
5.I am easily awakened by noise
6.I like to read newspaper articles on crime
7.My hands and feet are usually warm enough
8.My daily life is full of things that keep me interested
9.I am about as able to work as I ever was
10.There seems to be a lump in my throat much of the time
11.A person should try to understand his dreams and be guided by or take warning from them
12.I enjoy detective or mystery stories
13.I work under a great deal of tension
14.I have diarrhea once a month or more
15.Once in a while I think of things too bad to talk about
16.I am sure I get a raw deal from life
17.My father was a good man
18.I am very seldom troubled by constipation
19.When I take a new, I like to be tipped off on whom should be gotten next to
20.My sex life is satisfactory
21.At times I have very much wanted to leave home
22.At times I have fits of laughing & crying that I cannot control
23.I am troubled by attacks of nausea and vomiting
24.No one seems to understand me
25.I would like to be a singer



What happens when a person TRIES to lie to cover up, say, homicidal thoughts or suicidal ideation and fails, is that the test scoring indicates strong deviations in answers of the same type and the test is deemed invalid due to deception.
This happens quite often, because as you can see, the questions are personal and they are intrusive in nature.


Lastly, on the plus side for the mentally healthy, it takes a great number of " deviated" reponses to cause a false- positive for a possible psychiatric disorder. The MMPI is a tool. It is not perfect, and it cannot replace in-depth psychiatric interviewing.

I fully agree that Casey should have been questioned by a fully vetted forensic Psychiatrist. I have a great friend who is a genius in the area of forensic Psych. It is fascinating to listen to him tell a bit of what he has heard and seen down through the years.


I hope this helps.
Maria

 

[Thinker Belle]

I seriously love how, between these newly unsealed depositions and the video diary leak, FCA has now lost her "mystery appeal" (assuming there were actually networks and people who were intrigued and wanted to hear more of her lies). What more could she possibly say in an interview that hasn't been uncovered in these depos? All of the big money topics have pretty much been discussed : what happened to Caylee, the sexual abuse claims, who Caylee's father is (all Casey's version, whatever version that may be 3.0, 4.0, etc... :floorlaugh I can see that price tag dropping lower and lower. Hopefully it will soon be synonymous with what she is worth: nothing.


sweet, sweet karma.

 

[SindyBill]

OT. I started a new job tonight..and the lady training me asked me what I thought of the Casey Anthony case..talk about a can of worms. I decided not to say much because I didn't want to make the wrong impression nor did I want to go down that road..but she told me her opinion..and she actually sided with Casey and the jury! I was shocked. I decided not to go over the evidence, thinking..clearly she must not know every single detail..and probably doesn't..

but then she explained that she'd been molested by a family member at such a young age and that she said that sort of thing changes your brain for some people..that she whole heartedly believes casey was molested and that's why she's a narcissist and can't tell the truth or recognize the truth. I just said "you know, I never thought of it that way." I still believe Casey's a liar..but it was just interesting to hear an opposing opinion from someone who genuinely felt that way and wasn't just being a troll.

 

[NocturnalLady]

He believed everything that came from her mouth. He even discounted her lying as something normal people do. That is not doing his job. It is obvious he is biased on Casey's side and the DT was paying him to say what they wanted him to say. He is a terrible doctor, IMO.

I agree. He is a really poor doctor at best.

I laughed out loud when he said that he was able to get Casey to talk so freely because "she obviously considered him so competent". He repeats twice how competent he is and how this helps open his subjects up.

Did you also notice how he used "I honestly think..." or "to be honest" so many times?! I was really struck by how much he uses language that seemed to compensate for his own anxiety about wanting to appear to be such a great doctor. He is anxious to boast about and impress upon everyone how competent he is and how he won Casey (this special person's) confidence so easily and then he tries to bolster his credibility over and over by repeating how "honest" his statements are.

He is not too far removed from Anthonyspeak and we all know how credible that is.

 

[angeldust]

oh I get it now, daddy who molested me and now" may have molested" but definately murdered my child has said I'll take care of this baby dont you worry ..... of course I wont , and I leave, lie ,steal, party , say my baby was kidnapped but only after I have been pushed to the edge of the cliff by my stupid mother( spoiling my fun ) eh wanting to see the baby . I sit in jail for 3 years, yes bl@@dy 3 years cos I m not tellin ya nuffin so theyre HUH

eh i THINK NOT come on your raped ,your baby raped and killed by daddy and you run away for a month an only come back, by force, cos mommy dragged u back by the hair, to be arrested gmab

the first thing you would do was say ok daddy (eeeyuk, its a scottish thing) and hop right down to the nearest police station and get him, get him , red handed for everything, your abuse, your daughters abuse , and her murder

I m not sitting in jail for NOBODY can u imagine how good it would feel if all that she said were true (which its not) you would be waiting for the day to nail him to the wall would you not, and that day would have been June 16th 2008

not july 2010

 

[NocturnalLady]

wait till y'all read about the "backwards" sort of meaning.

That bit was truly classic in its confoundity. (And yes I just made that special word up just for the good doctor.)

Are we SURE he isn't related to the Anthonys? He certainly seems to speak their language.

Either that or he fell down the rabbit hole as soon as he got one look at Casey's "long, dark hair"....

 

[NocturnalLady]

From page 148-149 of W interview:

“Father was a police – now, this part was interesting. I hadn’t known. Father was a police officer in Ohio in the ‘80s. Somehow he was involved while on duty in a car accident and so – he was in a patrol car and they hit another vehicle is my understanding. And the persons who were in that car, she indicated one was paralyzed, but I also, – my thinking is that someone was killed in that accident, you know. Her father evidently hurt his knees badly, had lots of medical issues with the neck and mouth and teeth area because of the accident. I guess it was a pretty severe accident.”

Hmmmm - did the good doctor follow up in his interview with George whether this really happened? If not, why? Red flag lie if George denied it.

Bolded above: What? Your "thinking"....did you find out? Or you just went with the snow job and *advertiser censored*-umed somebody was killed?

I REALLY want to know if any of this is true.

 

[SeekingJana]

I REALLY want to know if any of this is true.

All I can tell you is that it is true that George suffered severe injuries at some point in his LE career, and could no longer be employed in LE. That's how/ why he became a security guard, as I understand it.