Casey's seizure? NEW INFORMATION 2011.09.08

[logicalgirl]

No big surprise to me. She obviosly has tempoal lobe problems, which governs behavior. Diagnosed with PTSD (did I hear that right?)

Post traumatic stress from what? When did this start?

CA and GA aren't at fault it isn't a learned behavior.
- it was stated KC has suffered a lot of "loss" in her life.
- many do not believe the abuse she reported
it's happened to others, they don't act like her
- she has no obvious genetic defect (trisomy 21 or the like)
- PhD reports documented seizure not epilepsy on no meds
-no histrory of traumatic brain injury to cause
a temporal lobe disorder
-JB stated she has "issues" I think we all agree.
- she does not have any mental health problems per PhD
(but she acts like a psychopath)
I'm reading between the lines here----------------------------
So....
conception- Nothing in her genetic make up caused it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
afterbirth- Nothing that's happened to her since birth that caused it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
it's not a psychological illness- no DSMIV disgnosis
--------------------------------------------------------------------
it's not the result of a brian tumor- as far as we know

KC is getting "therapy"- per JB ??? WHAT KIND?
inpatient therapy?
outpatient therapy?
rehab therapy?
Chemo therapy?

Symptoms
psychoitc behavior, *seizures, pathological lying, immature,
no conscience, no empathy, no fear ,emotional lability
aggressive, dominating,
ETA: normal IQ
any thoughts?

No you didn't hear it right - there is no evidence of it - Baez tried to depo several experts, but their theories came to a full stop when Ashton interviewed them.

 

[Whisperer]

Inmates in jail feign seizures all the time. Staff has to take them to sick bay, regardless....even though it may not be real and there is absolutely nothing to be done for them. They like to get out of their cell for a few hours. I doubt KBCA has any documented source of seizures. It is attention-seeking, imo.

I suspect she works herself up at times and her own anxiety causes physical reactions and she thinks she has a severe medical problem. She also tends to hyperventilate when anxious and probably thinks she is dying. She is a drama queen. I suspect the only person who has diagnosed her seizures is she.

 

[sonicfanaticsmommy]

I was in treatment in Feb for Klonopin addiction (Xanax's little sister) and they had me on Serax (a benzodiazepine line Klonopin) and phenobarb to detox, bc if you stop taking benzos cold turkey you can have seizures. Also, alcohol works in the body almost the same way benzos do. I recall seeing texts between KC and Amy where they talked about getting Xanax. I think either:

A) she did have a seizure (it'd be hard for her to fake blue lips and foam to JG) and it was alcohol/Xanax related. You CAN have a seizure detoxing even one time from either of those. It's also not unrealistic that JG purposely didn't mention Xanax to 911 or to LE for fear of getting in trouble.

or

B) she didnt have a seizure, but she passed out. When you faint, you can have involuntary movements that mimic a seizure. Drinking heavily and/or (especially and) taking Xanax can certainly make you pass out.

I don't really think KC was into harder drugs, but I guess it's possible. IMO I'm thinking no, though. None of her friends have drug records and it just doesn't seem to fit in with the life she was living. Plus harder drugs are expensive and we all know KC was broke!

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Alcohol withdrawal causes seizures. Very common.

She didn't have enough history with alcohol for that to happen imo. Very unlikely to say the least. She seemed to be the hanger-on - drink 2-3 beers and flirt/be social type, not the get s-faced at a kegger and pass out type.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Inmates in jail feign seizures all the time. Staff has to take them to sick bay, regardless....even though it may not be real and there is absolutely nothing to be done for them. They like to get out of their cell for a few hours. I doubt KBCA has any documented source of seizures. It is attention-seeking, imo.

I suspect she works herself up at times and her own anxiety causes physical reactions and she thinks she has a severe medical problem. She also tends to hyperventilate when anxious and probably thinks she is dying. She is a drama queen. I suspect the only person who has diagnosed her seizures is she.

Yeah same thing as the "OH NO she's wringing her hands and breathing fast, let's stop court and get to the Dr." episode. Wasn't even symptomatic of a true panic attack.

 

[logicalgirl]

I was in treatment in Feb for Klonopin addiction (Xanax's little sister) and they had me on Serax (a benzodiazepine line Klonopin) and phenobarb to detox, bc if you stop taking benzos cold turkey you can have seizures. Also, alcohol works in the body almost the same way benzos do. I recall seeing texts between KC and Amy where they talked about getting Xanax. I think either:

A) she did have a seizure (it'd be hard for her to fake blue lips and foam to JG) and it was alcohol/Xanax related. You CAN have a seizure detoxing even one time from either of those. It's also not unrealistic that JG purposely didn't mention Xanax to 911 or to LE for fear of getting in trouble.

or

B) she didnt have a seizure, but she passed out. When you faint, you can have involuntary movements that mimic a seizure. Drinking heavily and/or (especially and) taking Xanax can certainly make you pass out.

I don't really think KC was into harder drugs, but I guess it's possible. IMO I'm thinking no, though. None of her friends have drug records and it just doesn't seem to fit in with the life she was living. Plus harder drugs are expensive and we all know KC was broke!

Your lips goes blue if you hold your breath long enough -

 

[txsvicki]

Jesse Grund seems to be a little on the dramatic side himself. He may have reported blue lips and foaming at the mouth, but blue candy and koolaid could cause blue lips. After all, he believed he was the baby daddy and hadn't even had sex in the timeline for that to be real. Casey's seizures must never have been medically diagnosed, found by tests, and verified because Baez and Cindy would have been using that fact and telling the world if they were verified. It's funny that only a boyfriend saw them and it's not known if the jail witnessed much of anything or not. It's also funny that Casey claims seizures yet she didn't even think to attribute the possibility (in the jail letters) of a seizure making her feel sore and funny when she woke as a younger teen or a possibly reason for her sports bra to be up when she woke. Some people only have seizures when they sleep.

 

[gngr~snap]

No you didn't hear it right - there is no evidence of it

- Baez tried to depo several experts, but their theories came to a full stop when Ashton interviewed them.

Inmates in jail feign seizures all the time. Staff has to take them to sick bay, regardless

....even though it may not be real and there is absolutely nothing to be done for them. They like to get out of their cell for a few hours. I doubt KBCA has any documented source of seizures. It is attention-seeking, imo.

I suspect she works herself up at times and her own anxiety causes physical reactions and she thinks she has a severe medical problem. She also tends to hyperventilate when anxious and probably thinks she is dying. She is a drama queen. I suspect the only person who has diagnosed her seizures is she.

OK mthat makes sense I thought she did NOT but somehow I heard she did. Thank You Kindly!

I know they fake them. IMO it would not be "documented" as a seizure at that point, it would be a "feigned seizure".
Sure an inmate can froth at the mouth, hold their breath, and jerk about.
But a real seizure is much more than that - as you may know loss of bowel and bladder control (not always)
tonic clonic jerking-posturing post ictal phase
eyes rythmically twitching
You can't really fake diaphoresis, dilated pupils, there is a
blood test that can be done as well.
I bet the employees at the jail
can tell for the most part.

If medicated 6 in 3 years might seem like a lot, bit she wasn't on any meds so she wan't doing it that often.

My point was AF was there to defend her in the penalty
phase. She was there to present evidence that KC has a
"TRAUMATIC BRAIN INJURY" I am certain her seizures were real
something happened to her around 16 according to friends that knew her.
it's cause has to be "organic" or "enviornmental"
I can't think of any other kind not from an accident
or hypoxic event -or was it?
sounds more like a toxin did it.
Oh well more ??? we won't get answered,
but AF was ready to present it.

I agree therapy is a waste of time it won't help her
if her tepmoral lobe didn't develop correctly.

 

[seagull65]

yes Jesse G called 911 regarding what appeared to him to be a grand mal seizure back whenever that was (anyone remember, presumably back when they were dating 2006 or something. And she mentioned in the jailhouse letters that her family had told her she sometimes had what looked like seizures "while sleeping", that they were believed to be due to stress, and that she "has to take something for a headache" if she feels one coming on (she would know better if she'd been in the care of a doctor.) We never saw anything that indicated that she ever had these episodes properly evaluated and diagnosed by a neurologist. That was another thing that was so strange, that Cindy, a nurse, wouldn't have taken Casey to a neurologist for whatever this was. Similar to the thing with Casey's pregnancy.
I guess her defense team also didn't get her a medical diagnosis or else they probably would have mentioned it. Her strange stories always sounded to me like they could have a medical cause, i.e. as in Confabulation and similar disorders. Because the stories she told didn't serve any purpose, only made her look like a liar. In something like 40% of cases of "compulsive lying" it's actually a medical/memory disorder, people with these disorders often have history of seizures, abnormal EEG, history of CNS infection, etc.
I always said if I were her defense team the first thing I would have done would have been get EEGs etc on her. Brain injuries often go undiagnosed. Confabulation and other disorders can be mistaken for compulsive lying. I always thought her stories sounded a lot like confabulations the way she would mix up elements of real memory out of temporal context, etc, and interspere other erroneous elements. This is what some brains with various memory disorders do, the sufferer can't distinguish between what is the real memory and what is just extraneous information their brain has gap-filled with. There was never any evidence that she in fact is a psychopath, she doesn't have any history of psychopathic behavior, she was known as a kind and considerate person. The only similarity to psychopathy is the "compulsive lying" feature and the stealing, but these can occur in breakdowns and with many different disorders. It could be a different disorder altogether imo. Many medical and psychiatric disorders would have to be excluded before she can be diagnosed as a psychopath. For example, does she have episodes of delirium or disorientation due to any medical cause, or does she have a delusional disorder, etc

 

[denjet]

Inmates in jail feign seizures all the time. Staff has to take them to sick bay, regardless....even though it may not be real and there is absolutely nothing to be done for them. They like to get out of their cell for a few hours. I doubt KBCA has any documented source of seizures. It is attention-seeking, imo.

I suspect she works herself up at times and her own anxiety causes physical reactions and she thinks she has a severe medical problem. She also tends to hyperventilate when anxious and probably thinks she is dying. She is a drama queen. I suspect the only person who has diagnosed her seizures is she.

Agreed, IMO a panic attack is NOT a seizure ... but then KC and CA tend to embellish (lie) about everything ...
Also, a temper tantrum is NOT a seizure ... a hissy fit is NOT a seizure ... forcing yourself to hyperventilate or holding your breath is NOT a seizure

I'm sure the jail personnel are very adept at telling the difference ... they've probably seen it all ...

 

[treeseeker]

Seeing this thread reminded me to look up accutane. LA reportedly took the drug and suffered serious side effects, IIRC. After seeing KC's back in jail, I wondered if she also took it, and what the potential side effects are. Seizures are not listed as a side effect, but there are mental health issues.

Link if interested:
http://www.drugs.com/pro/accutane.html

 

[Amil]

She didn't have enough history with alcohol for that to happen imo. Very unlikely to say the least. She seemed to be the hanger-on - drink 2-3 beers and flirt/be social type, not the get s-faced at a kegger and pass out type.

Wasn't TonE's bar bill $70 on her behalf alone?

 

[gngr~snap]

yes Jesse G called 911 regarding what

appeared to him to be a grand mal seizure back

whenever that was (anyone remember, presumably back when they were dating 2006 or something. And she mentioned in the jailhouse letters that

her family had told her she sometimes had what looked like seizures "while sleeping

", that they were believed to be due to stress, and that she "has to take something for a headache" if she feels one coming on (she would know better if she'd been in the care of a doctor.) We never saw anything that indicated that

she ever had these episodes properly evaluated and diagnosed by a neurologist

. That was another thing that was so strange, that

Cindy, a nurse, wouldn't have taken Casey to a neurologist

for whatever this was. Similar to the thing with Casey's pregnancy.
I guess her defense team also didn't get her a medical diagnosis or else they probably would have mentioned it. Her strange stories always sounded to me like they could have a medical cause, i.e. as in Confabulation and similar disorders. Because the stories she told didn't serve any purpose, only made her look like a liar. In something like 40% of cases of "compulsive lying" it's actually a medical/memory disorder, people with these disorders often have history of seizures, abnormal EEG, history of CNS infection, etc.
I always said if I were her defense team the first thing I would have done would have been get EEGs etc on her.

Brain injuries often go undiagnosed

. Confabulation and other disorders can be mistaken for compulsive lying. I always thought her stories sounded a lot like confabulations the way she would mix up elements of real memory out of temporal context, etc, and interspere other erroneous elements. This is what some brains with various memory disorders do, the sufferer can't distinguish between what is the real memory and what is just extraneous information their brain has gap-filled with. There was never any evidence that she in fact is a psychopath, she doesn't have any history of psychopathic behavior, she was known as a kind and considerate person. The only similarity to psychopathy is the "compulsive lying" feature and the stealing, but these can occur in breakdowns and with many different disorders. It could be a different disorder altogether imo. Many medical and psychiatric disorders would have to be excluded before she can be diagnosed as a psychopath. For example, does she have episodes of delirium or disorientation due to any medical cause, or does she have a delusional disorder, etc

Just like the pregnancy!. CA ws not going to have her perfect daughter evaluated.
So if I'm going with the masses there is NO evidence of physical or sexual abuse of KC. BUT something is wrong.. CA was trying to play that off as nothing either.
I think KC did have a work up. Her "team" knows whats going on now.

Remember Lee got real sick too about the same age. From Accutane?
MUST have been some BAD acne! That stuff can cause liver failure- but it's no longer on the market thank goodness.
Cindy KNOWS what KC's problem is!

Don't shoot me!! What IF KC had a seizure while Caylee in the pool alone with her? Ca wasn't worried OR wht if while driving with Caylee!
No OB visits! KC told her in April/May she was PG. -srsly Who has an equal if not more significant problem here?
CA is a nurse she KNOWS better why doesn't SHE care?
Like mother like daughter apple/tree gee

 

[JBean]

Seeing this thread reminded me to look up accutane. LA reportedly took the drug and suffered serious side effects, IIRC. After seeing KC's back in jail, I wondered if she also took it, and what the potential side effects are. Seizures are not listed as a side effect, but there are mental health issues.

Link if interested:
http://www.drugs.com/pro/accutane.html

My son and I both took accutane and it is one nasty drug. Works great, but the course is long and grueling on several levels.

 

[JBean]

I have never heard of a person having seizures while sleeping.

When my son is seizing, it is often in his sleep.FWIW, I think it is fairly common, as seizures go.

 

[Nixie]

Wasn't TonE's bar bill $70 on her behalf alone?

In Orlando at a club/bar a 70$ bar tab doesn't mean she drank enough to have alcohol withdraw seizures. You can have seizures while drinking if you go way over your limit, but to have seizures from alcohol withdrawal you would have to be a very heavy drinker for a long period of time. The seizures you have while drinking would usually happen at the height of your binge, not the next day. Alcohol withdrawal seizures happen to people who drink on a regular basis and suddenly stop drinking. You can be a functioning alcoholic, but from they way her friends described her drinking habits it doesn't seem likely that is what caused her seizure.

 

[Whisperer]

Seeing this thread reminded me to look up accutane. LA reportedly took the drug and suffered serious side effects, IIRC. After seeing KC's back in jail, I wondered if she also took it, and what the potential side effects are. Seizures are not listed as a side effect, but there are mental health issues.

Link if interested:
http://www.drugs.com/pro/accutane.html

Knowing cindy's personality, she would blame her children's odd behavior on anything but a mental problem.

 

[miss plum]

It seems to me that if KC suffered from any type of exculpatory medical condition we would have heard and heard and heard about it for the past three years.

Also, as others have said, even if she did and it led to Caylee's death, it wouldn't satisfactorily explain her ice coldness about the death after the seizure had passed. It wouldn't explain the duct tape. It wouldn't explain her looking so evilly smug and triumphant in court when she was acquitted, or as she climbed into the SUV as she left jail. She probably wouldn't have been rushing around energetically visiting TL and getting movies and having sex all the next day. She wouldn't think a new epoch of Bella Vita had commenced in her life, or, had the tattoo been truly commemorative, you might expect a tear or two when she discussed it with the tattoo artist, not a bunch of happy lies about Caylee's summer vacation. Etc. Etc.

That jury would have bought it though I'm sure.

 

[logicalgirl]

Agreed, IMO a panic attack is NOT a seizure ... but then KC and CA tend to embellish (lie) about everything ...
Also, a temper tantrum is NOT a seizure ... a hissy fit is NOT a seizure ... forcing yourself to hyperventilate or holding your breath is NOT a seizure

I'm sure the jail personnel are very adept at telling the difference ... they've probably seen it all ...

Let's go back for a moment and consider, because rumors take on a life of their own.
Seizures.
Where did the information about seizures come from? What validated source?

Well, JG describes "one" - that was unconfirmed by a hospital visit.

Dr. Krop mentions "six" "apparent" seizures during the three years in jail.
Unconfirmed.

Ann Finnell mentions she is going to do an investigation to discover whether or not FKC suffered a traumatic brain injury as a child. Unconfirmed as to findings.

Am I missing something? Why are we so certain she has even had a seizure? Would this not have been a fact CA would have been shouting from the rooftops if there was a history.

Can any poster give me any other information because I seem to be missing something. Thx.

 

[ZsaZsa]

The only therapy ICA will respond to is retail therapy.
A good day at Target will cure everything. She might have to wait and use her own money though....