Caylee opening the sliding glass door photo

[Aedrys]

And that handle was at your waist level. Imagine trying to pull it open when the handle is over your head. There is no leverage to pull on the handle. Caylee would have had to have two hands and standing at the side pulling to even try to move the door. So opening a door at her age unless the door slides easily would not be possible from the position of that picture. jmo

It doesn't look like to me that she's trying to open it. She's not leaning the right way for that. It looks to me like she's trying to close the door. It wouldn't be easy either way to do for her. I still can't get over that Pinellas 12, some who had small children at that, bought the whole drowning excuse. I bet that picture was the proof for them too. :banghead:

 

[logicalgirl]

We know the skull didn't "roll out of the bag" as stated by Mr. K, because it was imbedded in the muck. It had to be removed with the muck surrounding it. So how was Mr. K supposed to place that tape around the mandible?

I'll bet if CA had gotten her hands on those remains first, there wouldn't have been any tape in sight afterwards, and those remains would have been well hidden so no one would have found them. If she could interject pet burials, pics of Caylee climbing to the pool, and a pic of a little girl trying to open their glass door into a murder trial, then she could have easily absconded with the remains. Her detectives weren't worth the money they were paid even with instructions! She "won" anyway. It just cost the state tons of money.

Thank you for this Zoe - why oh why are we still discussing the skull moving? We know it was held in place in the muck with plant roots embedded around it and Mr. Kronk could not possibly have lifted it up. We also know he was so shocked he actually found it that it took him a couple of times to give his description of events because he had to calm himself down to actually remember what he'd done.The skull had not moved and the mandilble had not moved. There were estimates from both sides about how long it had laid there, but the defense offered nothing about it being moved that wasn't shot down by scientific evidence. Remember the plant lady who thought that the hip bone might have been buried by a wolf...:what:

 

[logicalgirl]

And that handle was at your waist level. Imagine trying to pull it open when the handle is over your head. There is no leverage to pull on the handle. Caylee would have had to have two hands and standing at the side pulling to even try to move the door. So opening a door at her age unless the door slides easily would not be possible from the position of that picture. jmo

Just think also about how specific Cindy and George were about their home...not only would they have had locks on their sliding doors, but how hard is it to doubt they also had the lock that allows the door to only be opened an inch or two without making that adjustment open it all the way.

Even Baez said it was just a theory - Caylee could have opened the sliding door, put the ladder up or found the ladder up and climbed up the ladder and leaped into the pool -it could have happened. But Baez said a lot of things at that trial that could have happened - well...no that's not true - the majority of it was just "pie in the sky".

 

[BigMomma]

You know what might clear up all the "was the tape there or not" questions? If they released a picture of the skull as found in the woods. Voila. I think that would tell the whole story. I understand out of respect for Caylee they have not, but a this point I don't think it would be any more of an injustice to her that what has been done.

Yes, this is VERY true. What would have been more helpful is if somebody like RK would have used a little more common sense and taken a photo each and every time he called LE to report seeing that bag on Suburban-kwim? He or someone in his entourage did take a photo of a stupid snake that actually garnered him some money if I'm not mistaken-That is pretty incredible-dead snake photo=moola from media.

 

[BigMomma]

Just think also about how specific Cindy and George were about their home...not only would they have had locks on their sliding doors, but how hard is it to doubt they also had the lock that allows the door to only be opened an inch or two without making that adjustment open it all the way.

Even Baez said it was just a theory - Caylee could have opened the sliding door, put the ladder up or found the ladder up and climbed up the ladder and leaped into the pool -it could have happened. But Baez said a lot of things at that trial that could have happened - well...no that's not true - the majority of it was just "pie in the sky".

Was it ever established anywhere in any documents that the A's had any type of doggie door in their home at any time? I sometimes think they might have and maybe they could have taken it down for the very reason Caylee maybe did get out by way of that type of door and then it was taken down for obvious reasons. I've learned long ago not everything they have ever said has ever been the complete truth.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Roy said himself in a statement to police he lifted the skull ,so yes I do think it sounds realistic.

I am not beating on Roy, I am speculating on what I honestly believe he did.

I believe he found Caylee's skull and lifted it with his meter stick and used the duck tape that was still stuck and matted in her hair to prop up her jaw.

I dont understand why that is so unrealistic. I didnt say he took her home with him ,I think it is much more simple then that he found her and placed her skull back on her mandible, except skulls dont really sit like that without being propped up. The weight and shape of them doesnt allow for it so it is unrealistic to believe it landed that way on its own, and even more so with its mandible being held on by non sticky duck tape resting UNDER it. JMO.

What is so unrealistic about what I believe ?

I think people are reading more into it then there is,. I do not think Roy took Caylee in the woods. I dont believe he had anything to do with the case other then finding her and propping her skull upright.

It is not hard to place a mandible back in place. On a human or an animal.

Because a grown man who finds a human skull isn't going to start applying duct tape to it. What possible reason would there be for doing that? I trust what the examiner said. It's common sense, it's Occam's Razor, and there's no need to imagine unlikely scenarios when the truth is so obvious. None of what he did matters anyway (even if he had done such a thing) - it's just another distraction from FCA.

 

[logicalgirl]

Was it ever established anywhere in any documents that the A's had any type of doggie door in their home at any time? I sometimes think they might have and maybe they could have taken it down for the very reason Caylee maybe did get out by way of that type of door and then it was taken down for obvious reasons. I've learned long ago not everything they have ever said has ever been the complete truth.

Okay - I'll bite. Let's say Caylee did get out into the yard, up the ladder and into the pool - and she drowned.
So how long was she there? In the pool. Dead. Half an hour? An hour? Before FCA missed her? So then what did she do with her? Fished her out, said - huh - look - she drowned. And then she....laid her down? Took her into the house? All this time taking the chance that no neighbour is watching? No meter man has come into the yard (except we now know they read the meter without coming in - but did FCA know that?) So how long did she let Caylee dry before she put that duct tape on her? An hour? Where was Caylee while she was drying off enough to apply the tape? And the what?

I never hear what happened after Caylee got in the pool to be able to make this theory even begin to work for me so maybe some kind soul is willing to lay it out for me?:waitasec:

 

[BigMomma]

Okay - I'll bite. Let's say Caylee did get out into the yard, up the ladder and into the pool - and she drowned.
So how long was she there? In the pool. Dead. Half an hour? An hour? Before FCA missed her? So then what did she do with her? Fished her out, said - huh - look - she drowned. And then she....laid her down? Took her into the house? All this time taking the chance that no neighbour is watching? No meter man has come into the yard (except we now know they read the meter without coming in - but did FCA know that?) So how long did she let Caylee dry before she put that duct tape on her? An hour? Where was Caylee while she was drying off enough to apply the tape? And the what?

I never hear what happened after Caylee got in the pool to be able to make this theory even begin to work for me so maybe some kind soul is willing to lay it out for me?:waitasec:

It was just a thought that perhaps at one time there could have been a doggie door attached to the slider-the A's, sorry, do not appear to be the type who'd jump every chance to take the dogs out when a doggie door would suffice-and they could have taken one down since Caylee was growing and could sneak out like that. Do I believe she drowned in the pool? Not unless it happened right when OCA supposedly came home and fought with her mommy-if that happened. There are so many of these 'it could have happened this way', but then we have all these bombastic stories and timelines and more stories-not only from OCA, but others as well, so it leads me to believe more than ever that yes, it was pre meditated and yes somebody else had to know-how else would all these lies get so down pat, kwim? Except the lie about June 8 or 9th, but there too, like it was collusion to use that date, until the video surfaced:waitasec:

 

[logicalgirl]

It was just a thought that perhaps at one time there could have been a doggie door attached to the slider-the A's, sorry, do not appear to be the type who'd jump every chance to take the dogs out when a doggie door would suffice-and they could have taken one down since Caylee was growing and could sneak out like that. Do I believe she drowned in the pool? Not unless it happened right when OCA supposedly came home and fought with her mommy-if that happened. There are so many of these 'it could have happened this way', but then we have all these bombastic stories and timelines and more stories-not only from OCA, but others as well, so it leads me to believe more than ever that yes, it was pre meditated and yes somebody else had to know-how else would all these lies get so down pat, kwim? Except the lie about June 8 or 9th, but there too, like it was collusion to use that date, until the video surfaced:waitasec:

My apologies Big Momma - I realized after the fact that I attached my comments to yours and that question wasn't actually directed to you but posters in general. I guess I sort of lost it there and thought it was just me carrying on the conversation - so - eek - sorry!:blushing:

But re my comments - yes, we have had a lot of theories, and a lot of them exclude the time line - like was George there or not? We know for certain he left for work at about one - and then once Caylee opens the sliding door, assuming she could, and climbs up the ladder of the pool, assuming it was there and had been left up, and assuming she made it up the ladder herself without falling off - I've never read the rest of the story so I could picture it...that's all.

 

[RR0004]

I agree......I do not think she actually opened the door at all, and I think the prosecutors failed terribly by not pointing that fact out more. All the photo shows is her little hand on the handle. That in no way proves she could open it, or even that she could have opened it further.

I think they didn't want to buy into the theory because Baez hadn't proven his OS. I think it's a huge jump from seeing a photo to believing that it "could have happened" the way he said it did, especially in view of the fact that the circumstantial evidence showed otherwise.

 

[BigMomma]

My apologies Big Momma - I realized after the fact that I attached my comments to yours and that question wasn't actually directed to you but posters in general. I guess I sort of lost it there and thought it was just me carrying on the conversation - so - eek - sorry!:blushing:

But re my comments - yes, we have had a lot of theories, and a lot of them exclude the time line - like was George there or not? We know for certain he left for work at about one - and then once Caylee opens the sliding door, assuming she could, and climbs up the ladder of the pool, assuming it was there and had been left up, and assuming she made it up the ladder herself without falling off - I've never read the rest of the story so I could picture it...that's all.

:rose: No apologies neccessary:seeya: You're one of the coolest sleuthers here as far as I'm concerned. I know, I understand, forgive me too lease: some days my ire gets overfired up and I'm all hellbent over and under. I do think GA was there, but I'm not so sure OCA was-I say this because and please don't shoot me, ok. but GA says "OCA left just before 1pm, then we see pc activity just around the same time, actually after 1pm-was it her, was it him, was it someone else who tapped in to the pc by way of a phone? idk. I know it is a headbangers ball when it comes to dividing what was said as true or lie, but after all is said and done, I'm afraid I have a very hard time believing a lot of anything that came out of any of their mouths. I've often have seen it said that OCA always took real events and wound it into her own storyline, the same can be said for her parents, sorry to say-like this seizure business. I just assumed CA glommed on to this info via 'the other woman', but now it could have also come from TM of TES or what JG had mentioned from yrs ago.

As for the slider. A lot of us here have said we have a hard time sliding one open on our own. I think the photo was just used as yet another device to play into the drowning story/theory. Whatever happened, I don't think it happened in the pool-I asked DH if he'd leave a pool up like that and he said H NO he'd have kicked it with such force there would have been a flood in the yard and the pool would have been thrown out immediately. I just wish some form of sheer, pure divine intervention would prevail and unmask what really happened. Just cannot believe how each one of them can go on their merry way after such a tragedy, after all the nonsense they all created.

 

[Pattymarie]

:rose: No apologies neccessary:seeya: You're one of the coolest sleuthers here as far as I'm concerned. I know, I understand, forgive me too lease: some days my ire gets overfired up and I'm all hellbent over and under. I do think GA was there, but I'm not so sure OCA was-I say this because and please don't shoot me, ok. but GA says "OCA left just before 1pm, then we see pc activity just around the same time, actually after 1pm-was it her, was it him, was it someone else who tapped in to the pc by way of a phone? idk. I know it is a headbangers ball when it comes to dividing what was said as true or lie, but after all is said and done, I'm afraid I have a very hard time believing a lot of anything that came out of any of their mouths. I've often have seen it said that OCA always took real events and wound it into her own storyline, the same can be said for her parents, sorry to say-like this seizure business. I just assumed CA glommed on to this info via 'the other woman', but now it could have also come from TM of TES or what JG had mentioned from yrs ago.

As for the slider. A lot of us here have said we have a hard time sliding one open on our own. I think the photo was just used as yet another device to play into the drowning story/theory. Whatever happened, I don't think it happened in the pool-I asked DH if he'd leave a pool up like that and he said H NO he'd have kicked it with such force there would have been a flood in the yard and the pool would have been thrown out immediately. I just wish some form of sheer, pure divine intervention would prevail and unmask what really happened. Just cannot believe how each one of them can go on their merry way after such a tragedy, after all the nonsense they all created.

We all know the damned sliding door pix and the ridiculous Anthony pet burying crap was added at the end to influence the jury....and dammit it but it did.

We sleuthed this crime for 3 years and never saw this stuff about the sliding glass doors/family burying rituals.

It was added at the end because the defense saw that the jury wasn't buying any of the evidence. Cindy, George and Lee accomplished their goal. To save KC from the death pentaly...

They thought she would rightly go to jail. But never did the Defense Team of the family think they would get would get stuck with her in her Bella Vita" in the free world."

Never did they think she would be a newly bejewled fish-faced, infected bulbous nose internet joke. (maybe they are better proud of her "jail hair naked *advertiser censored* pic? I dunno....what DOES make a parent proud?)

They excused Caylee's horrible burial desposal by claiming that bagging and duct taping their family pets was their normal way of desposing dead family corpses...oh dear God...

Yep now I feel better how the corpse of Caylee ended up....with Anthony family love and approval. (Lets all not discuss the bugs and animals...cuz...yea...we know...Caylee was "already gone")

Never did they figure she would end up as "Trout Lips" the joke of the internet...they just figured they were saving her from Brunhilda on death row. Now what the hell are they going to do with their MURDERESS?

Give her their hard-winning half-million? Dr. Phil appearance? (way to sell for ratings...Phil)

Guess what Anthony's ...you should have never lied....you chose your psychopathic daughter over your innocent baby grandchild. Should have been a no-brainer. Now you have to live with your lying

Lying...will NEVER win out in the end.

Jeeps and new bathrooms will never take the place of your precious baby who should be learinng her ABC's by now... dear God...

(Wouldn't you have rather preferred that beautiful baby playing in her little Winnie the Pooh bed or playing in her little backyard playhouse than sleeping in the same bed as KC and Ricardo and Tony or kidnapped by that heathen, Zenaida?)

Karma...fate...but most importantly... God will decide.

God Bless you all and lead you to the truth and peace.

Sorry for me continued to be shocked rant.

Love you all here at WS...my home away from home and place of therapy and sanity.

 

[RR0004]

We all know the damned sliding door pix and the ridiculous Anthony pet burying crap was added at the end to influence the jury....and dammit it but it did.

We sleuthed this crime for 3 years and never saw this stuff about the sliding glass doors/family burying rituals.

It was added at the end because the defense saw that the jury wasn't buying any of the evidence. Cindy, George and Lee accomplished their goal. To save KC from the death pentaly...

They thought she would rightly go to jail. But never did the Defense Team of the family think they would get would get stuck with her in her Bella Vita" in the free world."

Never did they think she would be a newly bejewled fish-faced, infected bulbous nose internet joke. (maybe they are better proud of her "jail hair naked *advertiser censored* pic? I dunno....what DOES make a parent proud?)

They excused Caylee's horrible burial desposal by claiming that bagging and duct taping their family pets was their normal way of desposing dead family corpses...oh dear God...

Yep now I feel better how the corpse of Caylee ended up....with Anthony family love and approval. (Lets all not discuss the bugs and animals...cuz...yea...we know...Caylee was "already gone")

Never did they figure she would end up as "Trout Lips" the joke of the internet...they just figured they were saving her from Brunhilda on death row. Now what the hell are they going to do with their MURDERESS?

Give her their hard-winning half-million? Dr. Phil appearance? (way to sell for ratings...Phil)

Guess what Anthony's ...you should have never lied....you chose your psychopathic daughter over your innocent baby grandchild. Should have been a no-brainer. Now you have to live with your lying

Lying...will NEVER win out in the end.

Jeeps and new bathrooms will never take the place of your precious baby who should be learinng her ABC's by now... dear God...

(Wouldn't you have rather preferred that beautiful baby playing in her little Winnie the Pooh bed or playing in her little backyard playhouse than sleeping in the same bed as KC and Ricardo and Tony or kidnapped by that heathen, Zenaida?)

Karma...fate...but most importantly... God will decide.

God Bless you all and lead you to the truth and peace.

Sorry for me continued to be shocked rant.

Love you all here at WS...my home away from home and place of therapy and sanity.

Do they even know what they've lost???!!

ETA: Great post Pattymarie!

 

[logicalgirl]

:rose: No apologies neccessary:seeya: You're one of the coolest sleuthers here as far as I'm concerned. I know, I understand, forgive me too lease: some days my ire gets overfired up and I'm all hellbent over and under. I do think GA was there, but I'm not so sure OCA was-I say this because and please don't shoot me, ok. but GA says "OCA left just before 1pm, then we see pc activity just around the same time, actually after 1pm-was it her, was it him, was it someone else who tapped in to the pc by way of a phone? idk. I know it is a headbangers ball when it comes to dividing what was said as true or lie, but after all is said and done, I'm afraid I have a very hard time believing a lot of anything that came out of any of their mouths. I've often have seen it said that OCA always took real events and wound it into her own storyline, the same can be said for her parents, sorry to say-like this seizure business. I just assumed CA glommed on to this info via 'the other woman', but now it could have also come from TM of TES or what JG had mentioned from yrs ago.

As for the slider. A lot of us here have said we have a hard time sliding one open on our own. I think the photo was just used as yet another device to play into the drowning story/theory. Whatever happened, I don't think it happened in the pool-I asked DH if he'd leave a pool up like that and he said H NO he'd have kicked it with such force there would have been a flood in the yard and the pool would have been thrown out immediately. I just wish some form of sheer, pure divine intervention would prevail and unmask what really happened. Just cannot believe how each one of them can go on their merry way after such a tragedy, after all the nonsense they all created.

George was NOT there. It was confirmed he worked the afternoon evening shift at his security job. It was FCA's habit to get dressed for "work" and pack Caylee's bag and leave and swing back after George had gone to work. The computer activity that day confirms it was FCA working at home on her computer.

We don't like the way CA and GA "abandoned" Caylee at the trial to save FCA from the DP. But no one will ever convince me that GA and CA were not devoted to Caylee - their life revolved around her and they spent as much time with her as FCA did. If there was any possibility that the pool was where Caylee died - it would be gone. IMO.

 

[BigMomma]

George was NOT there. It was confirmed he worked the afternoon evening shift at his security job. It was FCA's habit to get dressed for "work" and pack Caylee's bag and leave and swing back after George had gone to work. The computer activity that day confirms it was FCA working at home on her computer.

We don't like the way CA and GA "abandoned" Caylee at the trial to save FCA from the DP. But no one will ever convince me that GA and CA were not devoted to Caylee - their life revolved around her and they spent as much time with her as FCA did. If there was any possibility that the pool was where Caylee died - it would be gone. IMO.

You're right, I keep forgetting because of that too much info that was thrown all over-GA had a job and then GA did not have a job, etc. Hard to remember what happened on what day, etc. I'm sure they both were very devoted to Caylee, it shows how pampered she was, meaning she did have the best grandparents could buy for a beautiful little princess, and I do think they were more of an actual parent than OCA was, but somewhere along the way, Caylee got put on a shelf and forgotten about in order to save OCA and I don't know why and will never understand it. I think, no, I know my blood would run completely cold as ice if I had an inkling one of my children did something to cause a death; to a grandchild or anybody for that matter, short of self defense. And then to keep on lying and putting it out of her mind and then the big brick wall of defense to blame a lot of other people, I do not understand. One thing I think we can agree on is that we have never seen such a scene as this and hopefully never will again. I just do not get how CA and GA to a certain degree can support, defend OCA, I think there still is something else there that may come out when we all least expect it to, I sure pray for this.

 

[logicalgirl]

You're right, I keep forgetting because of that too much info that was thrown all over-GA had a job and then GA did not have a job, etc. Hard to remember what happened on what day, etc. I'm sure they both were very devoted to Caylee, it shows how pampered she was, meaning she did have the best grandparents could buy for a beautiful little princess, and I do think they were more of an actual parent than OCA was, but somewhere along the way, Caylee got put on a shelf and forgotten about in order to save OCA and I don't know why and will never understand it. I think, no, I know my blood would run completely cold as ice if I had an inkling one of my children did something to cause a death; to a grandchild or anybody for that matter, short of self defense. And then to keep on lying and putting it out of her mind and then the big brick wall of defense to blame a lot of other people, I do not understand. One thing I think we can agree on is that we have never seen such a scene as this and hopefully never will again. I just do not get how CA and GA to a certain degree can support, defend OCA, I think there still is something else there that may come out when we all least expect it to, I sure pray for this.

While I can never "make right" what they did - I try to understand why..part of it was circling the wagons, a dysfunctional families do - an "us against the world" mentality, part of was world of complete "dufus's" they surrounded themselves with - think of DC and his crew - reading the emails between him and the psychics was just to slip into woo-woo land, and part was remembering that Baez was their primary source of information. George felt he had to support CA because she couldn't handle the truth (remember the conversation he had with LE) and part was just the loss of Caylee and the inability to accept that their own child could do such a terrible thing. All IMO of course, but I don't give them the "power" or strength that many of my co-posters do.

But regarding the drowning, etc., I know one of the truly horrible parts of the trial for me was, after spending three years combing through every piece of evidence, reading every depo and watching every hearing including the Frye hearings, then watching the trial and listening to the complete CARP coming out of the defense teams mouths, plus the fact that the jury actualy believed it and let "that woman" free, was just as difficult to accept as the reality of Caylee's death. It was the most terrible double whammy. And now so much of Baez's complete rubbish is now discussed asif it could be fact....well, ....it's difficult.

So let me again apologize if I sound "short" at times. It all still hurts...

 

[GiantPickle]

I am very tempted to video my 2 1/2 year old opening our Pella sliding glass door and post it here. He can do it with ease and has been able to for a while now. He is no bigger than Caylee was (in fact I think she was bigger than him). I'm tempted to do it also because you can see the multitude of barriers he would have to overcome before getting in to our above ground pool in the same frame.

That being said - That pic of Caylee is fake. No question in my mind about that.

As for CA/GA - you can hear on the 911 tape the way CA feels about Caylee. CA loved Caylee. It became a simple case of "I can't lose them both." CA said in the Dr Phil interview that she thinks something is really wrong with FCA. I think that's how CA sleeps at night. She has convinced herself that FCA is crazy and apparently that's a get out of jail free card. I also think CA found out the truth from FCA in November and the rest was just an attempt at not losing them both. And we have to admit that CA has issues herself - she let FCA get away with "murder" all the time.

And there's also no question in my mind that pool would have been long gone if they believed the drowning story. Is anyone 100% sure its still there?

 

[logicalgirl]

I am very tempted to video my 2 1/2 year old opening our Pella sliding glass door and post it here. He can do it with ease and has been able to for a while now. He is no bigger than Caylee was (in fact I think she was bigger than him). I'm tempted to do it also because you can see the multitude of barriers he would have to overcome before getting in to our above ground pool in the same frame.

That being said - That pic of Caylee is fake. No question in my mind about that.

As for CA/GA - you can hear on the 911 tape the way CA feels about Caylee. CA loved Caylee. It became a simple case of "I can't lose them both." CA said in the Dr Phil interview that she thinks something is really wrong with FCA. I think that's how CA sleeps at night. She has convinced herself that FCA is crazy and apparently that's a get out of jail free card. I also think CA found out the truth from FCA in November and the rest was just an attempt at not losing them both. And we have to admit that CA has issues herself - she let FCA get away with "murder" all the time.

And there's also no question in my mind that pool would have been long gone if they believed the drowning story. Is anyone 100% sure its still there?

Good points Giant Pickle - and could I point out - it is a picture of Caylee reaching for the door handle. Nowhere is there a picture of Caylee opening the door.
Do you have a pool in the back garden where your 2.5 year old lives?

 

[LambChop]

Good points Giant Pickle - and could I point out - it is a picture of Caylee reaching for the door handle. Nowhere is there a picture of Caylee opening the door.
Do you have a pool in the back garden where your 2.5 year old lives?

Plus if you know your child can open a door to the pool area you have to secure it. In California it's a law. My mother had no children and had to have alarms on all of her sliders. jmo