CLUES: how to find Susan

[Kimster]

Also, I got to thinking about the bodies that were found in New Mexico. One of the things they noticed after the bodies were found was that if they looked at aerial maps taken over time, they could see from the air where the ground had been disturbed. The desert doesn't change much, so it's easy to do that in some terrains. Has anyone looked at the desert areas from the air - prior and after Susan went missing?

That would be very time consuming for detectives. If those maps could be made public, I'll bet our members would comb through them with pleasure!

 

[RoseTree]

Wow, what a great find, Kimster!

 

[GrainneDhu]

Excessive use of antibacterial hand sanitizer will definitely cause dry skin, but in most cases it doesn't get to the point of burning your skin, because it clears up so quickly with moisturisers. If it was caused by sanitizer, after the fact, that would mean jp waited to apply the lotion until it got pretty advanced. It's definitely possible. I just think the facts of the case, the known conditions, and the timeframe lean toward good old fashion wind burn.
And wind burn is most commonly caused due to the fact that the sun and wind remove the top layer of oils and the skin is raw, exposed to the elements for a prolonged period.... The palms are oily, and often shielded, but, my point about the palms not being affected vs the top of the hands was in relation to whether chemicals caused jp's hands to appear that way.

jmo

I was unclear, sorry.

I meant that hand sanitizer can accelerate the speed that wind burn occurs and even help cause it in less windy conditions if it is cold outside.

Antibacterial hand sanitizer works by being at least 60% isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol. The range in manufactured products ranges between 62-85%. Isopropyl alcohol emulsifies (mixes with) oils and the emulsified mixture evaporates off the skin surface.

 

[concentric]

The drum creates a chimney effect and raises the temperature of whatever is being burned.

I doubt Josh Powell had any way of transporting a metal 55 gallon drum that wouldn't be too obvious. It could be done in a mini-van but it would show and seem too memorable. Did he have access to any site that had a pre-existing burn barrel, though?

I've always assumed that the shrink plastic, tarps, etc, were necessary for a guy who was phobic about germs, etc. Particularly if she had been dead long enough for her body to grow cold before he had to handle it again since it is pretty common for people to have different reactions to handling the body of someone who just died and is still warm than they have to handling the body of someone who has been dead long enough for the body to grow cold.

-------------
Many of us can recall cases we read about in the news, where metal containers both sealed and unsealed were used to dispose/try to dispose of bodies.

The means by which the perps use these metal containers to dispose of victims are varied: chemical - such as lye or various acids; fire/burning - in barrel, trash bin, or car trunk, for example; submerge in water; dispose of for garbage taken to landfill; bury

Some of us have had dreams regarding a wooden box or similar construction made of wood.

 

[IWannaKnow]

Forgive me if I overlooked this already being posted, but it may be an important clue:

Robin Snyder claims she recently met with police. She claims she saw Josh Powell and his two sons the day after Susan went missing in 2009.

Back then, Snyder says she at a Sandy hotel where she was in charge of overseeing the free breakfast for guests.

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/sl...san-Powell-murder/OO8aMVY0gku92ZTkRNmtyA.cspx

Sandy, UT to West Valley City, UT - Google Maps

The video says it was the Comfort Inn in Sandy. This is the address:
8955 S. 255 West
Sandy, UT, US, 84070-2070

http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-...Cw&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&ved=0CCcQ_BI

It is right next to Interstate 15. Easy access.

That theory, which was brainstormed elsewhere, was that there was no definite known time that he left the house that night and that he could very well have put her in a wooded area within a +/-100 mile radius. Remember the boys were in the van and the weather was inclement that night. At that time he did not know LE would be at his house early the next morning and thought he had all the time in the world to dispose of her. LE found the wet spot and the fans, jp didn't think the fans would be found; he thought that he would come home later in the day and 'report' Susan missing when she didn't come home from work. He stayed away from the house to bolster the 'camping' theory. Coming back and finding LE at the house sped things up for him; as soon as he was able he rented the car and went back to the site he was at that night to cover his tracks. He now has to worry about forensics; he didn't know whether LE was tailing him in the rental or not and if he would be stopped. He could have driven in circles just to see if he was being followed and then gone to dispose of her. If she was stashed in any part of the Oquirrhs/Uintahs/Wasatch Mountains, by dragging her to a drop off area he never had to put her in the rental. There are some areas of the mountains, readliy accessible to the road, with steep drops. One variable is that the Middle Canyon Rd on the Tooele side of the Oquirrhs is closed from the end of fall until the spring because of treacherous snow conditions; he could have walked in there and found hiding places.

I do not believe the 'camping trip' story.

Jacie - does that road automatically close at the first of fall and is there an actual gate/barrier? What date exactly or does it vary? Is that a road the locals use as a shortcut or is it not really used at all? Google wouldn't give it to me as a route....but IF he were able to use it on December 6th, it appears to me from Google (I live on the east coast :seeya he could have come up 111 to 48 to 209 and Bob's your uncle - he is there at the Comfort Inn in time to reserve a room and get breakfast for the boys. Also right down the road from the strip club he was allegedly seen in the day Susan disappeared:

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/87175242.html
Witnesses: Josh Powell was at strip club on night his wife vanished
By Sabra Gertsch Published: Mar 9, 2010 at 5:32 PM PST Last Updated: Mar 9, 2010 at 6:04 PM PST

Some people don't believe it, and police have no surveillance footage to corroborate the claim. But a bartender, a bouncer and a customer of the Deuces Wild Strip Club in Salt Lake City claim they saw Josh Powell drinking and talking too much on the day Susan Powell disappeared.

"He just kept saying over and over, I've had a really bad day, and I've got a story to tell,"' said Sherman, a patron.

2750 South 300 West Salt Lake City, UT 84115

21 minutes to the Comfort Inn:
http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-...Cw&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&ved=0CBMQ_BI

 

[IWannaKnow]

-------------
Many of us can recall cases we read about in the news, where metal containers both sealed and unsealed were used to dispose/try to dispose of bodies.

The means by which the perps use these metal containers to dispose of victims are varied: chemical - such as lye or various acids; fire/burning - in barrel, trash bin, or car trunk, for example; submerge in water; dispose of for garbage taken to landfill; bury

Some of us have had dreams regarding a wooden box or similar construction made of wood.

concentric - Did you have any other feelings about this box or the wood? Could it have been really old? The area I'm focused on was an old mine from the 1890's and there are some old buildings around there.

 

[IWannaKnow]

ALSO - can anyone help me out with the exact make and model of the minivan? Some of them had all wheel drive around that period. The weather reports I've read state there was 1" of snow on the ground. An all wheel drive vehicle could make it through that depending upon the road IMO.

http://ask.cars.com/2007/06/awd_minivan.html

In 2006, Dodge, Buick, Chevrolet, Saturn and Pontiac all had minivans available with all-wheel drive, but in 2007 the domestic nameplates dropped the option.

http://www.wunderground.com/history...tml?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA
History for Salt Lake City, UT
Sunday, December 6, 2009
Snow Depth 1.00 in

ETA - Found it! Dodge Caravan.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/50609169-78/powell-josh-susan-cox.html.csp?page=3

That agent, and others from the U.S. Marshals service, were there to retrieve a GPS tracking device secretly attached to Susan and Josh Powell's Dodge Caravan.

http://www.edmunds.com/dodge/caravan/

The second-generation Dodge Caravan was produced from 1991-'95. Derived from the infamous Chrysler K-platform of the 80s, the Caravan's trim lines were base, SE, LE and ES. Three engines were offered: a 2.5-liter four-cylinder with 100 hp (paired to a five-speed manual or three-speed automatic), a 3.0-liter V6 with 142 hp (three- or four-speed automatic) or a 3.3-liter V6 with 162 hp (four-speed automatic). All-wheel drive was newly available for this Caravan, as were antilock brakes.

Doesn't mean THAT mini van had all wheel drive, but there is certainly a good chance IMO.

 

[Jacie Estes]

Also, I got to thinking about the bodies that were found in New Mexico. One of the things they noticed after the bodies were found was that if they looked at aerial maps taken over time, they could see from the air where the ground had been disturbed. The desert doesn't change much, so it's easy to do that in some terrains. Has anyone looked at the desert areas from the air - prior and after Susan went missing?

That would be very time consuming for detectives. If those maps could be made public, I'll bet our members would comb through them with pleasure!

Civil Air Patrol or the military could have been doing fly-overs there. That is a direction to go; I believe there were also choppers up.

 

[Jacie Estes]

One thing that has always intrigued me was the 'story' on jp's site about making volcanos with the boys. it was totally out of left field. In a jp macabre way, was this a clue, a big 'f' you to peeps? We know that the media irritated him and I could believe him taunting with a 'clue'.

 

[IWannaKnow]

Sorry for the multiple posts....

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/50609169-78/powell-josh-susan-cox.html.csp?page=2

Josh Powell speaks: My wife, Susan, left us behind
By nate carlisle

The Salt Lake Tribune
First published Nov 08 2010 10:07AM
Updated Feb 5, 2012 08:47PM
BBM

Josh Powell declined to answer many questions about the investigation and at points asked his father, Steve, not to bring up some subjects.

But Josh Powell stuck by his previous statements: that he last saw his wife as he left her at home and took their sons, then ages 2 and 4, on a late-night camping trip to the west desert in the family's blue minivan. He and the children stayed warm in the freezing temperatures with a generator and heater he had purchased two weeks earlier, Josh Powell said. Police have since seized the equipment, he said.

"Susan was with me at the generator store," Josh Powell said, but was unable to remember the name of the store.

 

[sayd]

I'm sure this has been covered, but I've never seen it. Every rental car I've rented in the last few years has a tracking system on it. I guess JP's was the only one in the world that didn't?

I love the new clue from the waitress.

 

[sayd]

One thing that has always intrigued me was the 'story' on jp's site about making volcanos with the boys. it was totally out of left field. In a jp macabre way, was this a clue, a big 'f' you to peeps? We know that the media irritated him and I could believe him taunting with a 'clue'.

And the pictures of Mt. Saint Helens with him and the boys.

 

[Jacie Estes]

At this link are pictures of Butterfield Canyon. There is a horse rescue area, "Wild Horse Center" that I would imagine jp, with or without Susan, may have taken the boys. The pictures give those not from Utah an idea about the vastness of the area. Butterfield Canyon is approximately 20 miles from Susan's house.

http://www.utahmountainbiking.com/trails/butterfd.htm


This is the Oquirrh Mountains; on the west side is Tooele and on the east side is Salt Lake City [West Valley City and the other local areas of SLC]

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oquirrh_Mountains"]Oquirrh Mountains - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[Jacie Estes]

The video says it was the Comfort Inn in Sandy. This is the address:
8955 S. 255 West
Sandy, UT, US, 84070-2070

http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-...Cw&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&ved=0CCcQ_BI

It is right next to Interstate 15. Easy access.



Jacie - does that road automatically close at the first of fall and is there an actual gate/barrier? What date exactly or does it vary? Is that a road the locals use as a shortcut or is it not really used at all? Google wouldn't give it to me as a route....but IF he were able to use it on December 6th, it appears to me from Google (I live on the east coast :seeya he could have come up 111 to 48 to 209 and Bob's your uncle - he is there at the Comfort Inn in time to reserve a room and get breakfast for the boys. Also right down the road from the strip club he was allegedly seen in the day Susan disappeared:

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/87175242.html
Witnesses: Josh Powell was at strip club on night his wife vanished
By Sabra Gertsch Published: Mar 9, 2010 at 5:32 PM PST Last Updated: Mar 9, 2010 at 6:04 PM PST



2750 South 300 West Salt Lake City, UT 84115

21 minutes to the Comfort Inn:
http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-...Cw&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&ved=0CBMQ_BI

These are the few pictures I was able to find, at the moment. I have more but have a meeting this morning so can't search for others until tonight.
http://s1145.photobucket.com/profile/ndnchic7

 

[DLT88]

Interesting article -- Steve P won't talk to police about Susan investigation and SLC woman claims to have seen Steve and Josh together at Topaz Mtn 3 months before Susan was gone:


http://www.abc4.com/content/news/sl...san-Powell-murder/OO8aMVY0gku92ZTkRNmtyA.cspx

 

[princesspjs]

Forgive me if I overlooked this already being posted, but it may be an important clue:

Robin Snyder claims she recently met with police. She claims she saw Josh Powell and his two sons the day after Susan went missing in 2009.

Back then, Snyder says she at a Sandy hotel where she was in charge of overseeing the free breakfast for guests.

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/sl...san-Powell-murder/OO8aMVY0gku92ZTkRNmtyA.cspx

Very interesting detail from this article!!

"I was standing right behind Charlie," Snyder says. "And Charlie looked right up at me and he says 'do you know what happened to my mom?' so I say 'no what happened to your mom?'"

Before getting an answer Snyder was called to the kitchen.

When she came back she says they were gone.

I think he was probably asking her if she knew where his mom was, not asking her if she knew the details of what happened to her. I believe that JP probably took Susan out of sight of the van where the boys were and then went back to the van with the kids and pretended to wait for her to come back (after she was finished "looking for crystals").

 

[DLT88]

Very interesting detail from this article!!


I think he was probably asking her if she knew where his mom was, not asking her if she knew the details of what happened to her. I believe that JP probably took Susan out of sight of the van where the boys were and then went back to the van with the kids and pretended to wait for her to come back (after she was finished "looking for crystals").

Me, too. I think JP very naively and severely underestimated his children's (any child's) bond with their mother. I think he figured he could just say "Mommy got lost looking for crystals. Let's go home anyway." and that would be that. He never realized what trauma that would bring to their child that momma was out in the cold in a cave. They never forgot and even after attempting to de-Susan them for 2 years, they remembered as vividly as they could and showed they never stopped thinking about their mother.

 

[Jules71]

Very interesting detail from this article!!


I think he was probably asking her if she knew where his mom was, not asking her if she knew the details of what happened to her. I believe that JP probably took Susan out of sight of the van where the boys were and then went back to the van with the kids and pretended to wait for her to come back (after she was finished "looking for crystals").

Interesting the choice of words though "do you know what happened to my mom" vs do you know where my mom is.

 

[Jules71]

Interesting article -- Steve P won't talk to police about Susan investigation and SLC woman claims to have seen Steve and Josh together at Topaz Mtn 3 months before Susan was gone:


http://www.abc4.com/content/news/sl...san-Powell-murder/OO8aMVY0gku92ZTkRNmtyA.cspx

Maybe this needs its own thread. ?

 

[dovebar]

Interesting the choice of words though "do you know what happened to my mom" vs do you know where my mom is.

Although it's odd that she didn't report it until now - that we know of - it does ring exactly like something a kid would ask. I have had children I don't know ask me things out of the blue when in distress. This little encounter really makes me sad. I am glad that Charlie and Braden are with her now. No child should have to go through what abused children do.