CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #51

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Just a question, if you didn't know whether you would or would not be spending Thanksgiving at home, would you have purchased partial items, or nothing at all? To save a trip, I might have gotten the potatoes, gravy, vegetables, and maybe a Turkey breast that I could have eaten another time should we have decided to go somewhere else, but I wonder if others would do the same?

If I hadn't gone inside the store yet, I may just leave and worry about it later.

Or, if Mark is like myself and I was standing in front of a store that had the cheapest turkey advertised, I may just go in and get the turkey anyway and keep it in the freezer if it's not going to be used for Thanksgiving.
 
I don't understand how Mark would even be concerned about his thanksgiving menu on Monday morning when his kid was patiently waiting for his promised return.

Dylan asked on Sunday night to go to his friends. Dad said no, but I will take you in the morning before I GO TO DURANGO. Then he leaves without Dylan, but promises to return at 11 to give him a lift. So now he is going to text him from Durango and ask what he wants for Thnksgiving dinner? I find that obnoxious and mean behavior on his part, if it is true.
 
I need to think about this a different way. For this to work, we use the following assumptions:

Suppose Mark had come home on Monday, and when Dylan did not show up by 4:00, he went to Bayfield and reported Dylan missing.
Suppose LE determined right away that Dylan was not a runaway and that he had been abducted (that couldn't have happened, but let's suppose it did)
Remember, there could not have been an Amber alert, because it did not fit the criteria for one. (not enough information to help find him)

If the preceding two items were true, what would have been different regarding searching for Dylan? I am talking about the actual searching and information gathering aspect of this, what could have been done that has not been done?[/

As soon as Dylan was reported as missing everyone in the family was called. If it had been determined that Dylan was abducted i would expect more dogs to be called in to help search. HRD, air, and tracking dogs. A forensics team would check out MR's house top to bottom that 1st day for any clues. Besides that I dont know what more/different could have been done.
 
It makes me very sad to think of Dylan eating alone at his dads' with frozen peas and packaged dressing. Thanksgiving is a FAMILY CELEBRATION. It is not a holiday to be all alone. Didn't Mark have any friends or anyone that he could take Dylan to celebrate a big homemade dinner with?
 
I don't understand how Mark would even be concerned about his thanksgiving menu on Monday morning when his kid was patiently waiting for his promised return.

Dylan asked on Sunday night to go to his friends. Dad said no, but I will take you in the morning before I GO TO DURANGO. Then he leaves without Dylan, but promises to return at 11 to give him a lift. So now he is going to text him from Durango and ask what he wants for Thnksgiving dinner? I find that obnoxious and mean behavior on his part, if it is true.

I think that's about how the man eats crackers. MR was a normal parent for not sending a son who was dizzy, had been up very late the evening before, and who had just flown in to his friend's on Sunday night. And being a half an hour or forty five minutes behind schedule the next morning is not a deal-breaking, promise-breaking, god-forsaken sin by any means. I find it conceivable that this child did not want to get up as early as he thought. Sort of an "eyes are bigger than his stomach" kind of thing.
 
I need to think about this a different way. For this to work, we use the following assumptions:

Suppose Mark had come home on Monday, and when Dylan did not show up by 4:00, he went to Bayfield and reported Dylan missing.
Suppose LE determined right away that Dylan was not a runaway and that he had been abducted (that couldn't have happened, but let's suppose it did)
Remember, there could not have been an Amber alert, because it did not fit the criteria for one. (not enough information to help find him)

If the preceding two items were true, what would have been different regarding searching for Dylan? I am talking about the actual searching and information gathering aspect of this, what could have been done that has not been done?

I'm paraphrasing here. LE said something to the effect that they suspected abduction or foul play from the beginning, but owed it to Dylan to look at all angles, including runaway, at first. This LE has prior knowledge of the family. They may have considered abduction by a family member. Hence, Dylan safe and probably would turn up once family issues were resolved. The search may have been just to do the obligatory check to make sure he was not hurt and there was no sign of injury in the vicinity. Which, IMO, would not have been unreasonable. The only thing I would have liked to see different (with the luxury of 20-20 hindsight) would be securing MR's residence as a possible crime scene and getting a search warrant immediately.
 
I don't understand how Mark would even be concerned about his thanksgiving menu on Monday morning when his kid was patiently waiting for his promised return.

Dylan asked on Sunday night to go to his friends. Dad said no, but I will take you in the morning before I GO TO DURANGO. Then he leaves without Dylan, but promises to return at 11 to give him a lift. So now he is going to text him from Durango and ask what he wants for Thnksgiving dinner? I find that obnoxious and mean behavior on his part, if it is true.

I don't understand this thinking. MR was the parent, and Dylan is the child. Someone (can't remember who) mentioned earlier that maybe MR really had no intention of letting Dylan hang with his friends that first day or two and put off taking him. Would that be so bad to tell your kid no?

It makes me very sad to think of Dylan eating alone at his dads' with frozen peas and packaged dressing. Thanksgiving is a FAMILY CELEBRATION. It is not a holiday to be all alone. Didn't Mark have any friends or anyone that he could take Dylan to celebrate a big homemade dinner with?

Again, what's the big deal? Why does it have to be a sad thing to spend the holiday with your dad? From what we have heard from Dylan's Bayfield friends, he loved his dad and they were buddies. I'm pretty sure my kids would rather stay home than get their cheeks pinched by family members they see once a year and hear how they are growing like weeds. JMO
 
I don't understand this thinking. MR was the parent, and Dylan is the child. Someone (can't remember who) mentioned earlier that maybe MR really had no intention of letting Dylan hang with his friends that first day or two and put off taking him. Would that be so bad to tell your kid no?



Again, what's the big deal? Why does it have to be a sad thing to spend the holiday with your dad? From what we have heard from Dylan's Bayfield friends, he loved his dad and they were buddies. I'm pretty sure my kids would rather stay home than get their cheeks pinched by family members they see once a year and hear how they are growing like weeds. JMO


Noramally it wouldn't be a big deal, but he was going to see his Oma who had cancer, and has since passed, and take family pictures with the whole family.
 
It makes me very sad to think of Dylan eating alone at his dads' with frozen peas and packaged dressing. Thanksgiving is a FAMILY CELEBRATION. It is not a holiday to be all alone. Didn't Mark have any friends or anyone that he could take Dylan to celebrate a big homemade dinner with?
For one thing Dylan wouldn't be eating alone at his dad's house if his dad was there with him. And why would it have to be frozen peas? I'd pick frozen green beans or mixed vegetables. And when I cook turkey, I never stuff it, the dressing is on the side.

Dylan has the misfortune of being in a split family. But his dad is part of his family. Being with his dad on Thanksgiving day could still be a family celebration. MOO.
 
Noramally it wouldn't be a big deal, but he was going to see his Oma who had cancer, and has since passed, and take family pictures with the whole family.

Here is the thing about that. I have seen or heard no one say that EH attempted to reschedule or trade holidays in 2012. Would she have traded Christmas for Thanksgiving? Probably only in retrospect. I don't think a father (or mother) should be expected to just "give up" their parenting/visitation time without some negotiation. Again, no evidence that this was even attempted.
 
Here is the thing about that. I have seen or heard no one say that EH attempted to reschedule or trade holidays in 2012. Would she have traded Christmas for Thanksgiving? Probably only in retrospect. I don't think a father (or mother) should be expected to just "give up" their parenting/visitation time without some negotiation. Again, no evidence that this was even attempted.

Ya know, for me, if my ex's mom was in the last stages of cancer and wanted my kid wanted to spend every single day there before she passed, I would be ok with it. You know why? Because I know how important family is. I would hate to think i prevented my child from spending what might be the last time with their grandparent. This is someone he has grown up with and loves dearly. MOO
 
Ya know, for me, if my ex's mom was in the last stages of cancer and wanted my kid wanted to spend every single day there before she passed, I would be ok with it. You know why? Because I know how important family is. I would hate to think i prevented my child from spending what might be the last time with their grandparent. This is someone he has grown up with and loves dearly. MOO

I would not give up seeing my son for the six or eight months that it took before his grandmother passed away. That is unreasonable and one would expect that the grand family gathering on the maternal side for pictures would have been scheduled when Dylan was expected to be present. If not on Christmas Day, then on a day during that holiday season. I assume that the Thanksgiving visit with his father was known about well in advance. I do agree that it may have been hard for Dylan to know that this was scheduled when he was not supposed to be there, but to put any responsibility for that on Dylan's father is not appropriate, imo.
 
Just a question, if you didn't know whether you would or would not be spending Thanksgiving at home, would you have purchased partial items, or nothing at all? To save a trip, I might have gotten the potatoes, gravy, vegetables, and maybe a Turkey breast that I could have eaten another time should we have decided to go somewhere else, but I wonder if others would do the same?

I would've, although I should qualify that statement by saying I like to cook. I haven't seen it stated either way whether MR does or doesn't cook. With how much he's on the road I'm guessing not.

Personally if I were already at the store anyway, especially if the store's far away, I'd get the following ahead to save on gas and time. Almost all of it would freeze or keep for quite awhile. If I were already planning a trip later in the week I'd probably wait until I knew for sure where Thanksgiving dinner would be, although the shopping list would probably be the same.

  • Turkey breast or thigh - either is probably be enough to serve MR and DR I'd think, with leftovers if only one of them ate it. I'd do this even if I wasn't sure about having Thanksgiving at my house just to have some turkey at home to make sandwiches with in case of no leftovers from somewhere else.
  • Potatoes - I prefer fresh, but some of the dry instant potatoes are pretty good. I'm picky so I'd only get either fresh or Idahoan instant..lol.. but I know some people like all of the boxed ones fine.
  • Vegetables - I might grab a package of something frozen, or a can of green beans (maybe stuff to make green bean casserole - I do a homemade version but thinking like someone who doesn't cook much, I might get the cream of mushroom soup and the onion topping stuff)
  • Stuffing mix (the cubes and seasoning kind) plus onion and celery
  • Chicken stock
  • Can of olives
  • Can of cranberry sauce
  • Gravy no, but I have ingredients on hand to make it from the pan the turkey is roasted in
  • Frozen rolls (or fresh brown and serve - they're cheap so having to throw out a few later wouldn't be a big deal)
  • Loaf of bread (for sandwiches)
  • Frozen pie and can of whipped cream

I'm stereotyping here but let's just say MR doesn't enjoy shopping or cooking much - most of the above seems to show up on grocery store end-caps, often even bunched together, to make it really easy to shop for. Other than the meat and frozen stuff, this whole trip might only entail going to one or two spots in the store. I probably wouldn't bother buying part of the meal ahead and the rest right before, but if I were buying ahead I think most of this stuff would be fine a week or even 1.5 weeks beforehand (if turkey's frozen).

Another popular item at least around here has been the "dinner in a box" where the grocery store basically makes everything and you just take it home to heat it up. I think you have to pick those up no earlier than a few days before. I'm not a fan personally but I know a lot of people, especially single parents or those who don't like to cook, really like these.

Now that you guys know way more about my holiday shopping than you ever wanted to know ;) , I'm not sure the reason for the question, but I have wondered if any Thanksgiving-y food was found in MR's house. If there wasn't I don't think it's all that meaningful, since the holiday was still a few days away. If there was, it tells me there was at least some pre-planning into the possibility of having Thanksgiving dinner at his house.
 
Ya know, for me, if my ex's mom was in the last stages of cancer and wanted my kid wanted to spend every single day there before she passed, I would be ok with it. You know why? Because I know how important family is. I would hate to think i prevented my child from spending what might be the last time with their grandparent. This is someone he has grown up with and loves dearly. MOO

I agree, but MR and ER didn't have the kind of relationship post-divorce that allowed for communication and empathy. There's no evidence that MR knew about ER's mother as far as I can see, since he did not communicate with Dylan before he came for his visit and MR certainly wasn't in communication with ER about her mother. At least IMO.

I also don't see MR as the kind of person that would cook a full turkey dinner. And I don't think there's anything wrong with nontraditional holiday dinners - I hate turkey and it's usually just me and my two boys so we go to a movie on T-Day and call it good, even though their father lives a mile away and has all kinds of family they could spend the day with, if he would ever take them. I believe MR said one option was to go to his brother's house for T-Day, that should count as a holiday event I would imagine.

As far as doing something different then that possibly could happen now, I really wish we had been told more about what kind of phone and what belongings Dylan had with him. I already said that once today and I'll keep saying it - those items may turn up at some point and not be recognized as important :(

I also am curious if LE was ever able to get a list of people who were staying at the campgrounds or resorts in the area and check them against a list.
 
I would not give up seeing my son for the six or eight months that it took before his grandmother passed away. That is unreasonable and one would expect that the grand family gathering on the maternal side for pictures would have been scheduled when Dylan was expected to be present. If not on Christmas Day, then on a day during that holiday season. I assume that the Thanksgiving visit with his father was known about well in advance. I do agree that it may have been hard for Dylan to know that this was scheduled when he was not supposed to be there, but to put any responsibility for that on Dylan's father is not appropriate, imo.

Good points. Unfortunately my family's split and so is my husband's, and we don't even attempt to celebrate all the holidays with all family members "on" the actual day. We split up our get togethers and have them sometime near the holidays. Granted we are together with at least some of our family on the actual day, but more than once that's meant just my Mom and me, and it's been nice - not to mention calmer and mellower! We'll sometimes do the other bigger get-togethers or several smaller ones on other days. If everyone else was going to be in town long enough it seems they could've planned picture time for when Dylan would be home.

Not criticizing anyone, just thinking it's a good point about the possibility of doing things at different times.
 
In the earliest days, when LE was getting false sightings, they seemed to be entirely focused on Dylan having run away. There was even one report of an actual runner, I believe, being mistaken for Dylan and the runner supposedly "ran" from LE, lol (sorry, no link but surely some of you recall this.) My point being if LE was chasing down runners, they did consider him a possible runaway and in fact my belief is that they did so much longer than they later claimed. (Hence the long delay in getting the search warrant, IMO)

I think LE tends to think runaway when a child of divorced parents vanishes, before they think abduction, as wrong as this assumption may be. JMO
 
In the earliest days, when LE was getting false sightings, they seemed to be entirely focused on Dylan having run away. There was even one report of an actual runner, I believe, being mistaken for Dylan and the runner supposedly "ran" from LE, lol (sorry, no link but surely some of you recall this.) My point being if LE was chasing down runners, they did consider him a possible runaway and in fact my belief is that they did so much longer than they later claimed. (Hence the long delay in getting the search warrant, IMO)

I think LE tends to think runaway when a child of divorced parents vanishes, before they think abduction, as wrong as this assumption may be. JMO

You mean it took over a week for LE to figure out that Dylan was not a runaway? Why would it take that long?
 
You mean it took over a week for LE to figure out that Dylan was not a runaway? Why would it take that long?

Well, honestly, they only ruled it out due mainly to the passage of time, if I remember correctly. So, time passed...and they began to re-think things, IMO, when he had not contacted anyone.
 
Well, honestly, they only ruled it out due mainly to the passage of time, if I remember correctly. So, time passed...and they began to re-think things, IMO, when he had not contacted anyone.

I sure hope that it was more than a passage of time. I hope that LE used evidence to come to that conclusion.
 
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