CO CO - Roger Ellison, 17, Cedaredge, 10 Feb 1981 #2

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ThePhantom said:
What would be the motivation for dying man to say such a thing?
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There is simply not enough information about the story to make it seem plausible. Two men carrying rifles decide not to intervene when they see a person being lead into the woods at gun point. Why? Why not surround the man, since they would be two to one. Why not fire a shot into the air? According to the statement they we’re close enough to identify both people. That would have to be very close in my opinion. Why not go to the Sheriff right away. They did not need to divulge that they were poaching, therefore no getting in trouble. Why not come forward when the family offered an 8k reward? Was there really a dying man at all? There are way too many holes to make it believable.
 
Soundman said:
There is simply not enough information about the story to make it seem plausible. Two men carrying rifles decide not to intervene when they see a person being lead into the woods at gun point. Why? Why not surround the man, since they would be two to one. Why not fire a shot into the air? According to the statement they we’re close enough to identify both people. That would have to be very close in my opinion. Why not go to the Sheriff right away. They did not need to divulge that they were poaching, therefore no getting in trouble. Why not come forward when the family offered an 8k reward? Was there really a dying man at all? There are way too many holes to make it believable.
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You would be surprised about how many people are afraid to get involved, afraid to talk, afraid to intervene. I don't know if you've been following the Joshua Guimond case, but I just listened to a newly created podcast that confirms this kind of reticence . Some folks are just now submitting very valuable information that may be pivotal to solving Joshua's case. But their voices are disguised because they are afraid -- and I totally get it. I often feel the same way.
 
DD Byrd said:
Hey SM, has anyone been able to respond to you? All I'm seeing is jewelry ads. And it took me 20 minutes of spam-cancels to get here. Do you know of another real Missing/UID site?
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The adds are an extreme annoyance.
 
Admin I have a question. Are Go Fund Me posts allowed here? Like for Roger?
 
On one of the people search sites it does say that JP is deceased. Does anyone have any more information on this? Or any other information to report? Let’s hope the new year will bring about some answers, and some closure for Roger’s family.
 
On one of the people search sites it does say that JP is deceased. Does anyone have any more information on this? Or any other information to report? Let’s hope the new year will bring about some answers, and some closure for Roger’s family.
 
Roger's case has always held near and dear to my heart since I started this hobby or help finding the missing. I wish one day his case will be solved.

Roger's NamUs profile was modified on 12/22/22
He currently has 40 rule outs/exclusions

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.
www.namus.gov

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I have not been here for a few months and decided to look into the reported death of John Pash.

At first I found another John Pash who died in 2022, but in December, and this death was reported in April.
I found a notice of death for the Pash described by the former student at this website:

John Pash (Deceased) of Paris, France last lived in Madera, CA USA

Classmate Profile for John Pash, Paris American High School, Paris, France 1952 - 1971
www.classcreator.com www.classcreator.com

Finally, a face to the name! And from when he was around Roger's age.

I conclude it is the same John Pash.* I haven't found a complete obituary, though with Pash's family knowing of his involvement on WS, I could see that he/they may have preferred to keep mention of his death quiet.

In my searching, I found other things that seem to be the same JP: debt collection (relatively small amount) in 2021, middle name (won't mention here, though perhaps it has been in the past). I wondered whether he was covered on the website ratemyteachers. That site is still around, but I found no entry for him there.

So it seems that like Roger's sister Becky and his former teacher are now gone. Will his brothers, if any are still living, get answers? Will his classmaetes?


*The name + names of survivors + addresses in California/Colorado make that case. But I take almost everything I read on Websleuths and especially on the Roger threads with a spoonful of salt and *everyone* should do the same.
 
Historyscribe67 said:
Praying for Roger and his family on this 42nd anniversary of his disappearance. I'll never forget that cold and dreary day in February 1981 when the Sheriff's Dept. came to the school to investigate Roger's disappearance. Hoping that someday answers will be found for his family and friends.
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Long time lurker here but felt compelled to jump in. If you don’t mind me asking, did you personally know Roger or JP and if so what are your recollections of them and the events surrounding this case?
 
Gizmonic said:
Long time lurker here but felt compelled to jump in. If you don’t mind me asking, did you personally know Roger or JP and if so what are your recollections of them and the events surrounding this case?
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I did not personally know Roger. JP was one of my teachers throughout high school. I am currently researching it so have not made any conclusions as of yet. I have a few different hypotheses I am looking into. I hope that more attention focused on the case may bring new information.
 
Hi Everyone, I was recommended to read Roger's forum by a friend (you know who you are ;) ) and I know I am a decade late but wow it did not disappoint! Took me 2 days but I finally managed both threads. I must congratulate so many of you on sticking around and adding to this after over a decade!
There are a couple of opinions/questions I wanted to add, hopefully I won't repeat what's already been said before, while it's all still fresh in my mind. (I'm sorry I won't be inserting quotes directly from the threads but it's a huge thread and it'll take me 2 days to find all the quotes I want...I'll be paraphrasing I hope no one minds).

Before I start, I wanted to say that LE has always listed this as "probably murdered by someone he knew soon after he disappeared". Well that tells me everything I need to know. Clearly LE already know the answer and just never had enough evidence or enough guts to prosecute, otherwise surely it would have been much easier to keep it listed as a simple "runaway case" and forget about it. I feel coinfident that the LE position is correct.

1) So, Roger asked his lockermate to hold the door to the locker open as he needed to retrieve a book for his first lesson. My question is, where's the book? He grabbed the book from his locker so presumably wherever he went he was carrying the book. (this question also extends to whatever else he was carrying, was it usual for kids in the US to carry a school bag/backpack.satchel?) I know it seems like a small thing, but it has really bothered me.

2)One of Roger's lockermates had said "I hope Roger found what he was looking for". So does this mean that a conversation had happened at the locker that Roger was going to find something? Or a previous conversation perhaps..what was he looking for....?? justice, himself, something he'd dropped, evidence, his keys, a schoolbook....This just strikes me that this person knew exactly where Roger had gone that day.

3) Regarding Mr. Pash and this infamous assignment. I have to say I think us "sleuthies" ;) may have missed the boat on this one. It seems to me that he told us exactly what was in that assignment right from the start. He did it in a typically Pash way so that he could remain superior; in a tyoically teacher fashion he gave us the means to work it our for ourself but then he taunted WS by saying that no one would be smart enough to understand. The below is BBM what I think is significant:
JPash said:
We were discussing Freud. I was explaining the techniques used by Freud on his patients- hypnosis, Freudian slips, free association, dream interpretation, use of defense mechanisms, etc. On the first day we discussed the first 3, finishing up with the free association. I made up a list of 10 words/phrases- randomly selected, yet categorized. Im not even sure of the other 8, but I will provide examples. Lets say I chose red and green as 2 of the words, because they would elicit a variety of responses- a color, a fire engine, blood, a book, grass, a tree, etc. Then some natural occurrences such as tree, grass, water, sky, etc. Then I picked types of people- mom/dad, brother/sister, boy/girl friend, best friend, student, teacher, policeman, etc. And I think I may have ended with a couple social institutions- religion/church, education/school, etc. Again, I no longer remember the exact words/phrases I used except for 2 of them- the 2 that the detective asked me what they were and which he focused on. And then he showed me what Roger had written, and I was shocked. It was the same answer for both.
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Firstly, I don't see why the colours red or green would elicit the response of "a book". But that may be me resding too much into it. I personally focused in on the "social institutions" highlighted as he seemed to place them seperate to the others...tagged on the end. I take his "I think I may have added them" to mean "these are the ones to focus on". He never revealed exactly what Roger wrote, but I think he did tell us the subject. This was confirmed when he posted the below a couple of years later:

JPash said:
Why wouldn't they release it after 36 years? Because it would be difficult to explain why it was covered up for so long- especially since it dealt with people who held high status and esteem in the community. Haven't you figured that out by now?
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He was taunting us that we wouldn't be able to work it out and then I can almost hear him screaming at us the answer!
I am almost certain that Mr Pash was not involved in Roger's disappearance and had he not set this assignment we would never had heard of him. I am not sure why Roger's family took against him so. But I do think he knew who was involved and I think we are talking about someone high up like a priest, sheriff, town councillor, headteacher, coach...these kind of people.

4) That sighting by the poachers. I have to say that this seems perfectly legit to me. I, for one, would probably have not gotten myself involved either if I had seen what they saw...especially if this was a person with some influence who could have made my life hell.
Apart from it being very unlikely to lie in a death bed confession, the story was corroborated not just by the second witness but also both had polygraphs. I think it could fit in quite well with whoever took Roger taking him and executing him in a secluded spot.

Ok, as for my theories about what happened, I have 2 that are basically very similar:

A) Roger witnessed something highly illegal (rape for example) that would have been damaging enough to an influential person to destroy their lives. Unfortunately this distressed Roger enough that he could no longer keep the secret and was about to either tell or confront the person. Maybe he did in fact tell someone (headteacher or sheriff) but this person then told the wrongdoer as their loyalties were to this person. This person needed to silence Roger in order to keep their own life on track.

B) This one involves skiing (and I am not knowledgable in this area so please correct me). Roger had recently failed to male the olympic team, gutting for him I imagine. Is it possible that whoever was making the choice of who qualified was either corrupt and taking bribes or was operating some kind of "casting couch" scenario. You scracth my back and I'll make sure you get accepted. Roger refused and it played on his mind for a month or so and then threatened to expose this injustice. He sufferred for his good morals.

The thing that none of this explains is how Roger literally vanished from the school without being seen, unless the sighting of him with 2 men really was reliable and he did in fact find who he was looking for and confronted them...with tragic consequences.

It is all my opinion and just throwing out ideas. Let me know if you think I'm barking up the wrong tree.
 
Oh...and I knew there was so something I forgot!
I know there has been discussion about the anomalies found by radar at Pash's old home and why LE never dug.
I just wanted to clarify. "Anomalies" is an unfortunate word used by archaeologists, ground radar people etc as it conjures up some mystery but in truth it just means something found that was different to the surrounding soil. This could be archaeological, geological or a disturbance.
The Necro search team will have been extremely qualified and able to recognise the difference between a body (which gives quite a unique indication) and something else. Almost certainly the Necrosearch team advised the sheriff that what they were looking at almost certainly wasn't a body. It was in all likelihood a disturbance caused by the foundations of the garage being laid.

I'm not an expert in ground penetrating radar but I did study archaeology at university so I have some knowledge. Below is a link with some useful breakdown of info:
necrosearch.org

NecroSearch International, Inc.

necrosearch.org necrosearch.org

Anyway what I'm trying to say (in an admittedly long winded way) is that I am sure that there was no reason to dig given the expert opinion.
 
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