Conrad Murray trial -Day seven.

[Linda7NJ]

First of all, MJ has 3 children, not 2.

When did he file bankruptcy, lose the ranch and all his property? I'm not sure that is at all what happened. I could be wrong but I do believe he voluntarily left Neverland after the molestation trial for which he was acquitted on all charges. He left the country for awhile and upon his return, went to Vegas for a while, then when back to LA did not want to go back to Neverland. As far as I recall, upon his death he owned a majority of the ranch along with a company that he partially owned and now his estate owns the ranch.

You may know for a fact that MJ was an addict. I can not sit here and say that I know for a fact that he was. There are some speculating that he was and some speculating that he wasn't.

Upon his own admission quite a number of years ago, he was addicted to pain medications that he was taking after his Pepsi commercial burn accident. He voluntarily went into treatment for that. Everything else about his drug addiction or lack thereof is purely speculation by all of us in the general public.

ETA: I am not a diehard MJ fan and never have been and that is not the reason for this post. I believe he was a very talented entertainer along with many other entertainers that I enjoy watching and listening to. I am not defending his lifestyle or what others purport his lifestyle to be as I have no way of personally knowing for a fact what it was or wasn't. I am merely placing this post because it's post like the above (IMO) that is how ridiculous rumors get started and it just grows from there. I truly believe a lot of what is in the media about a lot of celebrities, MJ included, is overblown most of the time and in some cases total fabrication. The media does not care whatsoever what they print about people, how wrong or right it is as long as their ratings go up and they sell copies of their printed material. IMO



IMO

BBM

We do know for a fact he was an addict LONG after the Pepsi incident. All one has to do is read the search warrents from the most recent molestation allegations.

FYI Once an addict ALWAYS an addict, but MJ was a chronic habitual using drug addict.

Have we all entered into MJ's BIZZARO WORLD? MJ lived in a world of his own design. The man was not mentally healthy by ANY stretch of the imagination. MJ was a wackadoo, drug addicted, selfish, narcissistic, self serving whiner. He manipulative guy that got away with EVERYTHING he desired because he surrounded himself with scum bags and had the money to do it.

What does that say about our society when people excuse his behavior because he could sing and entertain?

BIZZARO WORLD I tell ya. I am NOT drinking the Kool-Aid!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I think CM is way too arrogant to be suicidal.

If we look at CMs past history and to me it is obvious that he is very self absorbed, imo.

He comes to this country and gets a good education yet he never repays his student loans.

He files for bankruptcy in the 90s.

Has major outstanding bills never paid even around the time this happened.

He seems to be a very high risk taker especially for a doctor. He fathers 7 children with 5 different mothers. Did he never think about the fact that this was reckless behavior? Did he ever think about STDs? Embarrassment for his wife? They had already had to leave the San Deigo area over another woman he had an affair with and fathered her child.

He has to be forced by the courts to support his children in a timely manner.

I don't think it was that he didn't HAVE money. Imo he spent way much more on his own personal desires rather than being financially responsible with the money he had. What man in such financially strapped shape gives strippers $3500 for one lap ride? A very self centered man who felt he was entitled and little regard for others.

He has his Houston clinic that he comes to every other week but the clientèle in LV is very different. That is where he makes the bulk of his money and probably uses the TX office to offset that income.

When he negotiated with AEG on stipulations about the contract he tells the lawyer that he wants this income to be put into a business name.......not his name. Is he the type that hides income so that his creditors cannot secure it? Imo, I think so. The lawyer for one of his baby's mama said when she dealt with him in the child support issues she found him untrustworthy and felt he was hiding income.

So imo, even though CM may 'appear' to be an upstanding professional doctor he has long had serious character flaws. Everything he does seems to have an ulterior motive designed to give him what he wants.

It is all about Conrad to Conrad.

That is why MJ died. Murray wanted the prestige that came with the job and certainly liked the money but as the usual pattern in his life he took high risks. He felt he knew it all and he thought nothing at all about leaving his patent abandoned at the most critical time. Murray was doing what Murray does. Doing what he felt he was entitled to do and that day it was talking/texting his lady 'friends.' That is what was important to him at the time. Not MJ.

IMO

 

[Talina]

BBM

We do know for a fact he was an addict LONG after the Pepsi incident. All one has to do is read the search warrents from the most recent molestation allegations.

FYI Once an addict ALWAYS an addict, but MJ was a chronic habitual using drug addict.

Have we all entered into MJ's BIZZARO WORLD? MJ lived in a world of his own design. The man was not mentally healthy by ANY stretch of the imagination. MJ was a wackadoo, drug addicted, selfish, narcissistic, self serving whiner. He manipulative guy that got away with EVERYTHING he desired because he surrounded himself with scum bags and had the money to do it.

What does that say about our society when people excuse his behavior because he could sing and entertain?

BIZZARO WORLD I tell ya. I am NOT drinking the Kool-Aid!

BBM

Yes, I am aware once an addict, always an addict.

What I meant is that we do not, or at least I do not, know that he was currently addicted to and regularly sneaking (as the defense would have us believe) and taking any specific drug without Dr. Murray's knowledge at the time of his death. We can only speculate based on his self admitted history. Further, based on his history and his prior admitted problem, all the more reason Dr. Murray (and all his physicians) should have taken a totally different approach to his medical treatment, IMO.

Perhaps you interpret most of the posts in this Conrad Murray trial forum differently that I do but I don't see anyone here, or at least not that I can recall at the moment, excusing any of MJ's behavior because he could sing and entertain or for any other reason for that matter.

As far as any other criticisms of MJs life, oddness, lifestyle, etc., I personally have tried to stay away from any of that and will continue to do so because MJ is not the accused here and on trial, IMO. It is about Dr. Conrad Murray being on trial.

 

[Linda7NJ]

If we look at CMs past history and to me it is obvious that he is very self absorbed, imo.

He comes to this country and gets a good education yet he never repays his student loans.

He files for bankruptcy in the 90s.

Has major outstanding bills never paid even around the time this happened.

He seems to be a very high risk taker especially for a doctor. He fathers 7 children with 5 different mothers. Did he never think about the fact that this was reckless behavior? Did he ever think about STDs? Embarrassment for his wife? They had already had to leave the San Deigo area over another woman he had an affair with and fathered her child.

He has to be forced by the courts to support his children in a timely manner.

I don't think it was that he didn't HAVE money. Imo he spent way much more on his own personal desires rather than being financially responsible with the money he had. What man in such financially strapped shape gives strippers $3500 for one lap ride? A very self centered man who felt he was entitled and little regard for others.

He has his Houston clinic that he comes to every other week but the clientèle in LV is very different. That is where he makes the bulk of his money and probably uses the TX office to offset that income.

When he negotiated with AEG on stipulations about the contract he tells the lawyer that he wants this income to be put into a business name.......not his name. Is he the type that hides income so that his creditors cannot secure it? Imo, I think so. The lawyer for one of his baby's mama said when she dealt with him in the child support issues she found him untrustworthy and felt he was hiding income.

So imo, even though CM may 'appear' to be an upstanding professional doctor he has long had serious character flaws. Everything he does seems to have an ulterior motive designed to give him what he wants.

It is all about Conrad to Conrad.

That is why MJ died. Murray wanted the prestige that came with the job and certainly liked the money but as the usual pattern in his life he took high risks. He felt he knew it all and he thought nothing at all about leaving his patent abandoned at the most critical time. Murray was doing what Murray does. Doing what he felt he was entitled to do and that day it was talking/texting his lady 'friends.' That is what was important to him at the time. Not MJ.

IMO

You are absolutely right on all counts about Murray. In no way did it ever appear Murray was an upstanding doctor. It's really no wonder Michael Jackson selected him. They were a perfect match. They BOTH knew the dangers, yet neither cared.

Michael lost his life, leaving his children fatherless. That's pretty darn selfish if ya ask me....and MJ was spending over 100k a month to Murray to get what he wanted....not much different than Murray's lap dance. But Murray is still alive, facing only a max of 4 years. MJ certainly had some MAJOR character flaws and denying them doesn't do anyone any good.

 

[cityslick]

BBM

We do know for a fact he was an addict LONG after the Pepsi incident. All one has to do is read the search warrents from the most recent molestation allegations.

FYI Once an addict ALWAYS an addict, but MJ was a chronic habitual using drug addict.

Have we all entered into MJ's BIZZARO WORLD? MJ lived in a world of his own design. The man was not mentally healthy by ANY stretch of the imagination. MJ was a wackadoo, drug addicted, selfish, narcissistic, self serving whiner. He manipulative guy that got away with EVERYTHING he desired because he surrounded himself with scum bags and had the money to do it.

What does that say about our society when people excuse his behavior because he could sing and entertain?

BIZZARO WORLD I tell ya. I am NOT drinking the Kool-Aid!

Isn't this a victim friendly forum? None of what you posted has any relevance as to why a licensed doctor allowed or administered drugs that could potentially kill him. If a crack addict under a doctor's care continues to get crack from the doctor and dies as a result, is the crack addict still ultimately responsible for his own death?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Isn't this a victim friendly forum? None of what you posted has any relevance as to why a licensed doctor allowed or administered drugs that could potentially kill him. If a crack addict under a doctor's care continues to get crack from the doctor and dies as a result, is the crack addict still ultimately responsible for his own death?

I feel MJ was a victim of his own making and somewhat responsible for his own death. I am not excusing Murray...

if an everyday common drug addict doctor shops, lies to each doctor and ends up dead from an overdose. Is the doctor soley responsible?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

BBM

We do know for a fact he was an addict LONG after the Pepsi incident. All one has to do is read the search warrents from the most recent molestation allegations.

FYI Once an addict ALWAYS an addict, but MJ was a chronic habitual using drug addict.

Have we all entered into MJ's BIZZARO WORLD? MJ lived in a world of his own design. The man was not mentally healthy by ANY stretch of the imagination. MJ was a wackadoo, drug addicted, selfish, narcissistic, self serving whiner. He manipulative guy that got away with EVERYTHING he desired because he surrounded himself with scum bags and had the money to do it.

What does that say about our society when people excuse his behavior because he could sing and entertain?

BIZZARO WORLD I tell ya. I am NOT drinking the Kool-Aid!

The SW for the trial was way back in 2003, right? Although that case has absolutely nothing to do with this case.

He seemed very level headed to me Linda when he was taped by Murray in May, 2009. I saw no whackiness whatsoever. Even though under the influence of drugs he was very coherent and everything he said made perfect sense. The only thing the drugs did was slow his speech down.

I have never seen MJ show any narcissistic traits. It is still shocking that a man of his fame and power remained very humble and still wanted to help the children who are needy and hurting all across our world.

I think society is sending a strong message that no matter who a person is whether they are the greatest entertainer of all times or a homeless person they deserve true justice when another has taken their lives through wanton gross recklessness.

I think a lot of America is fed up with blaming the victims for their own death when it was done completely by another. Also I have seen a drastic change over the years happening concerning MJ. A lot are simply letting go off the hate which of course is like a toxic cancer. We have been spoon fed for decades to hate MJ by the press who nourished that hate like it was gold because it was to them and billions of dollars have been made off of the myths spun about MJ. The majority of the public knows they have been lied to and dont trust the media anymore.

It doesn't mean one thing if MJ had been the worst addict on the planet except it does make Murray's actions even more appalling if possible. That is like giving a gun to someone so they can shoot themselves or giving an arsonist a box of matches and leaving them in a building alone to burn the place down.

That would mean that Murray preyed on a man's addiction disease for his own personal financial gain. That is what drug dealers do and drug dealers are punished when caught and if justice is served Conrad Murray will be held responsible for his own gross wrongdoings.

I have watched This Is It several times now. I don't see the weirdness that you see. Was he different? Most geniuses are.

He was not paying any money to Murray. Murray was to be under contract with AEG.

I look at the facts that are known. There were no other drugs in MJs system at the time of autopsy except those that Murray said he gave him. So I see no evidence he was an active drug user at the time of his death. I don't believe he wanted to get high at all. I believe 100% all MJ wanted was to get some much needed sleep and he thought he had slept when he had Murray administer the propofol.

A lot of the medications found had several pills left in the bottles and some went back as far as 2008.

 

[EPfan]

I am still keeping an open mind in this case. With the propofol found in MJ's stomach that can only be one thing and that is he drank propofol. Could he have drank the propofol before he laid down and possibably had propofol in a drip? I'll wait for the evidence before I cast my vote of guilty or Not guilty. There is no doubt in my mind that MJ was an addict of prescription drugs. I believe he had multiple Dr's prescribing to him. Just because you are the Dr. on watch doesn't mean you can control the addict. They hide these drugs in places you wouldn't believe. I know people that their children were addicted and those addicted will do anything and everything imaginable to get their next dose, or fix. They aren't even the same person with drugs involved. I think because of who MJ was people are treating this case different from the regular Joe. MJ was talented and an amazing entertainer but he was also human and chose the wrong road, which was turning to drugs. I think that his family didn't have a say in his lifestyle and anyone that would try and control his drug use would be in very bad shoes. JMOO.

 

[borndem]

I would like to know if the propofol bottle that was noticed to be inside the cut saline bag was top side down, as it was still hanging on the IV pole. This would tell a very very big story.

Edited to add: this would clearly explain a massive overdose of propofol without a doubt!

bbm
I am not anything close to a medical professional or anything similar (English major & had a heyell of a time w/chemistry in college!!), so please help me understand, if you would....

Why would the bottle in the IV bag be worse than a slow IV bolus of Propofol? Isn't the IV saline (or whatever it was in) on a slow drip?

If you are saying that MJ would have gotten the entire vial of Propofol from the IV drip instead of just some with the bolus, then I will understand. Thanks.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I am still keeping an open mind in this case. With the propofol found in MJ's stomach that can only be one thing and that is he drank propofol. Could he have drank the propofol before he laid down and possibably had propofol in a drip? I'll wait for the evidence before I cast my vote of guilty or Not guilty. There is no doubt in my mind that MJ was an addict of prescription drugs. I believe he had multiple Dr's prescribing to him. Just because you are the Dr. on watch doesn't mean you can control the addict. They hide these drugs in places you wouldn't believe. I know people that their children were addicted and those addicted will do anything and everything imaginable to get their next dose, or fix. They aren't even the same person with drugs involved. I think because of who MJ was people are treating this case different from the regular Joe. MJ was talented and an amazing entertainer but he was also human and chose the wrong road, which was turning to drugs. I think that his family didn't have a say in his lifestyle and anyone that would try and control his drug use would be in very bad shoes. JMOO.

You need to keep your mind even more open EP because that is not the only way a small amount of propofol can wind up in the stomach.

Listen to the experts as they explain why that happens.

IMO

 

[Thundar]

I am still keeping an open mind in this case. With the propofol found in MJ's stomach that can only be one thing and that is he drank propofol. Could he have drank the propofol before he laid down and possibably had propofol in a drip? I'll wait for the evidence before I cast my vote of guilty or Not guilty. There is no doubt in my mind that MJ was an addict of prescription drugs. I believe he had multiple Dr's prescribing to him. Just because you are the Dr. on watch doesn't mean you can control the addict. They hide these drugs in places you wouldn't believe. I know people that their children were addicted and those addicted will do anything and everything imaginable to get their next dose, or fix. They aren't even the same person with drugs involved. I think because of who MJ was people are treating this case different from the regular Joe. MJ was talented and an amazing entertainer but he was also human and chose the wrong road, which was turning to drugs. I think that his family didn't have a say in his lifestyle and anyone that would try and control his drug use would be in very bad shoes. JMOO.

I am not a Dr. But I believe if you are infused with high amounts of drugs some could end up in your stomach in your body's attempt to flush the drugs out of your blood stream. The drugs go through all your organs to clean your blood. Hopefully prosecution will clear this up.

 

[Linda7NJ]

The SW for the trial was way back in 2003, right? Although that case has absolutely nothing to do with this case.

He seemed very level headed to me Linda when he was taped by Murray in May, 2009. I saw no whackiness whatsoever. Even though under the influence of drugs he was very coherent and everything he said made perfect sense. The only thing the drugs did was slow his speech down.

I have never seen MJ show any narcissistic traits. It is still shocking that a man of his fame and power remained very humble and still wanted to help the children who are needy and hurting all across our world.

I think society is sending a strong message that no matter who a person is whether they are the greatest entertainer of all times or a homeless person they deserve true justice when another has taken their lives through wanton gross recklessness.

I think a lot of America is fed up with blaming the victims for their own death when it was done completely by another. Also I have seen a drastic change over the years happening concerning MJ. A lot are simply letting go off the hate which of course is like a toxic cancer. We have been spoon fed for decades to hate MJ by the press who nourished that hate like it was gold because it was to them and billions of dollars have been made off of the myths spun about MJ. The majority of the public knows they have been lied to and dont trust the media anymore.

It doesn't mean one thing if MJ had been the worst addict on the planet except it does make Murray's actions even more appalling if possible. That is like giving a gun to someone so they can shoot themselves or giving an arsonist a box of matches and leaving them in a building alone to burn the place down.

That would mean that Murray preyed on a man's addiction disease for his own personal financial gain. That is what drug dealers do and drug dealers are punished when caught and if justice is served Conrad Murray will be held responsible for his own gross wrongdoings.

I have watched This Is It several times now. I don't see the weirdness that you see. Was he different? Most geniuses are.

He was not paying any money to Murray. Murray was to be under contract with AEG.

I look at the facts that are known. There were no other drugs in MJs system at the time of autopsy except those that Murray said he gave him. So I see no evidence he was an active drug user at the time of his death. I don't believe he wanted to get high at all. I believe 100% all MJ wanted was to get some much needed sleep and he thought he had slept when he had Murray administer the propofol.

A lot of the medications found had several pills left in the bottles and some went back as far as 2008.

He died because he was an active drug user. IMO

I agree it doesn't matter. The more I learn about exactly what Murray did the more shocked and appalled I become. Franky, I am shocked that he's only facing 4 years.

It's no secret that I am not a fan of MJ the man. That said. I do think it's important to look at what lead up to MJ's death, the part he played in it, the part others played in it and all the missed oppurtunitys to do something about it. EVERYONE knew MJ had a serious drug problem. But MJ was their cash cow.

 

[Thundar]

bbm
I am not anything close to a medical professional or anything similar (English major & had a heyell of a time w/chemistry in college!!), so please help me understand, if you would....

Why would the bottle in the IV bag be worse than a slow IV bolus of Propofol? Isn't the IV saline (or whatever it was in) on a slow drip?

If you are saying that MJ would have gotten the entire vial of Propofol from the IV drip instead of just some with the bolus, then I will understand. Thanks.

Someone else explained this on one of the other day's threads. The saline bag was slit at the top, the propofol seal was sliced, the saline was drained out, and the propofol was upside down in the saline bag. So all that was flowing through the iv was propofol. the saline bag was just the carrier for the propofol. No saline going through at all.

 

[21merc7]

O/T

I never viewed anything publicized about MJ as whacko. I really am happy no one here knows me personally! I just saw MJ as someone with money to make a home the way he wanted, try to live his life in a way he chose given the circumstances that we will never know the likes of. (Paparazzi stalking, crowds gathering, law suits, people pretending to be friends but not, etc...)

As far as addiction, I know nothing of his personal life. If he said he was at one point and tried to take care of it, then I guess he did. If media said it, I discount it. If his sisters said it, who knows. I do understand that it is a huge possibility. Yes, MJ hired Dr. M for a job that no doctor should take. That does not mean he should have died under his care and MJ is not on trial here. I turn no blind eye to MJ's issues, or Dr. Murray's.

 

[Talina]

You need to keep your mind even more open EP because that is not the only way a small amount of propofol can wind up in the stomach.

Listen to the experts as they explain why that happens.

IMO

I've wondered the same thing about how propofol in any amount would have gotten into his stomach unless he swallowed it. Although I still haven't heard any experts yet say how that can happen, I have seen quite a few doctors, including anesthesiologists, say that there is no way a person can orally take that medication. They say it would sting horribly in ones throat and then the person would throw up almost right away. I'm very interested to hear the expert testimony from both sides regarding this subject.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I feel MJ was a victim of his own making and somewhat responsible for his own death. I am not excusing Murray...

if an everyday common drug addict doctor shops, lies to each doctor and ends up dead from an overdose. Is the doctor soley responsible?

Well actually that may come to be the case.

I read an article out of California yesterday where a Doctor could receive 20 years in prison when sentenced. (already convicted)

He gave drugs to those he knew were addicts (tried to deny it and it didnt work) and three of them overdosed on his pills and died.

Doctors like to pretend they don't know when someone is an addict but they know......they aren't stupid. They just like the kickbacks they make from the pharmaceutical companies when they hawk their drugs for them. The more they write prescriptions the more amenities they get.

I will see if I can find the article again.

It really made me feel very hopeful that we are beginning to see that doctors are not above the law.

IMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

The SW for the trial was way back in 2003, right? Although that case has absolutely nothing to do with this case.

He seemed very level headed to me Linda when he was taped by Murray in May, 2009. I saw no whackiness whatsoever. Even though under the influence of drugs he was very coherent and everything he said made perfect sense. The only thing the drugs did was slow his speech down.

I have never seen MJ show any narcissistic traits. It is still shocking that a man of his fame and power remained very humble and still wanted to help the children who are needy and hurting all across our world.

I think society is sending a strong message that no matter who a person is whether they are the greatest entertainer of all times or a homeless person they deserve true justice when another has taken their lives through wanton gross recklessness.

I think a lot of America is fed up with blaming the victims for their own death when it was done completely by another. Also I have seen a drastic change over the years happening concerning MJ. A lot are simply letting go off the hate which of course is like a toxic cancer. We have been spoon fed for decades to hate MJ by the press who nourished that hate like it was gold because it was to them and billions of dollars have been made off of the myths spun about MJ. The majority of the public knows they have been lied to and dont trust the media anymore.

It doesn't mean one thing if MJ had been the worst addict on the planet except it does make Murray's actions even more appalling if possible. That is like giving a gun to someone so they can shoot themselves or giving an arsonist a box of matches and leaving them in a building alone to burn the place down.

That would mean that Murray preyed on a man's addiction disease for his own personal financial gain. That is what drug dealers do and drug dealers are punished when caught and if justice is served Conrad Murray will be held responsible for his own gross wrongdoings.

I have watched This Is It several times now. I don't see the weirdness that you see. Was he different? Most geniuses are.

He was not paying any money to Murray. Murray was to be under contract with AEG.

I look at the facts that are known. There were no other drugs in MJs system at the time of autopsy except those that Murray said he gave him. So I see no evidence he was an active drug user at the time of his death. I don't believe he wanted to get high at all. I believe 100% all MJ wanted was to get some much needed sleep and he thought he had slept when he had Murray administer the propofol.

A lot of the medications found had several pills left in the bottles and some went back as far as 2008.

I don't really want to get into this ...so this is all I was say about it. My opinions of MJ are not based on the media accounts. My opinions are based on the words of four boys that accused MJ of innapropriate behavior. I believe THEM. I've witnessed MJ's own words and heard his bold face lies. I've seen what he did to himself.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I've wondered the same thing about how propofol in any amount would have gotten into his stomach unless he swallowed it. Although I still haven't heard any experts yet say how that can happen, I have seen quite a few doctors, including anesthesiologists, say that there is no way a person can orally take that medication. They say it would sting horribly in ones throat and then the person would throw up almost right away. I'm very interested to hear the expert testimony from both sides regarding this subject.

I will try to find the link again that explains it clearly, Talina but from what I remember it is an occurrence that happens after death when the kidneys and liver are no longer functioning causing small amounts to leak into the stomach area.

An expert I saw said it is humanly impossible for someone to overdose on propofol by ingesting it. Only 10% of the amount swallowed would even make it into the blood stream. He could have drank a gallon of the stuff and it still would not have killed him.

Remember the toxic amount was found in his HEART BLOOD that means it went into a vein and had time enough to completely saturate his system and make his breathing stop causing cardiac arrest.

I have always felt Murray was in such a hurry to do other things that the entire 100 ml flooded into MJ and instantly shut his breathing down and caused cardiac arrest.

Since this stuff is so powerful the patient is under sedation in seconds. If MJ had done this himself he would have no time to push all of the propofol in that was found in his system. He also would have been found in a different position. He simply would have crumpled in the position he would have to be in to push the propofol in. Not laying out straight on his back with his arms to his sides with palms up. MJ never moved. He never got up out of that bed. Once that propofol flooded his system he was dead instantly, imo.

This DT theory is a red herring meant to deceive.

IMO

 

[Thundar]

In response to Oceanblueeyes about the contract (I tried to quote but it was too long for my iPad). The contract was between AEG, Murray, & MJ. MJ was paying Murray but AEG had their lawyer draw up the contract, and they were to enforce the contract. It was a 3 party contract. Clear as mud!

 

[borndem]

I thought I heard that one of the drugs found was a "something chloroquine" can anyway verify? The reason I asked is that I've heard several times that he had Lupus and none of these drugs are used to treat that condition Unless is was hydroxychloriquine, at least as far as I know and I have Lupus.

Tweezy, the only thing I heard that comes close was on an order from May 14, IIRC, and it was something like "hydroquinone for skin lightening," or something close. I was trying to write them all down, and then it just got to be ridiculous and my hand was cramping (not really), so I just gave up. But I did write down the "hydroquinone" word before I stopped.

Hope this helps -- maybe someone else understood it better than I.