Conrad Murray trial -Day seventeen.

[oceanblueeyes]

Excerpt from article about hearing yesterday regarding defense trying to get the AEG/MJ contract into evidence:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...l-hairdresser-among-witnesses-to-testify.html

"It is…imperative for the jury to review the Agreement to understand the stringent requirements that were placed on Mr. Jackson and to illustrate that, under the circumstances, the actions taken by Mr. Jackson on June 25, 2009 were not unreasonable," the lawyer wrote.

BBM - I find that extremely offensive that they are asserting without any evidence whatsoever that MJ committed suicide which is what I get from that comment quoted. Further, that suggests to me that this learned attorney apparently feels that there are certain circumstances that suicide is apparently not unreasonable to him. :maddening:

ETA: If that is the direction they were going with this contract and going to imply that without any evidence to support it, I'm even more glad that Judge Pastor denied their request.

It is all a smear campaign Talina and Judge Pastor knows that. He is no new kid on the block and thank goodness he isn't having any of it.

My gosh we have had witnesses talk about how excited and upbeat MJ was right before he died. But the DT can peer into their smoky crystal ball and know he was really contemplating suicide?? GMAB! This DT is so vile and disgusting in their smear tactics.:innocent::innocent:

IMO

 

[Talina]

Beth Karas saying in IS that defense plans to call 5 character witnesses today. A hearing outside the jury presence to take place this morning before trial begins to go over exactly what character trait the defense intends to seek to introduce through these witnesses.

She also said that the defense has 2 more witnesses after these character witnesses: Dr. White and an addiction specialist. It is unclear whether or not either of these 2 would be available to testify today if the defense finishes with the character witnesses before the normal trial end time for the day. She said if Dr.White gets back in own in time, he will take the stand today. The addiction specialists has patients scheduled for the day and it is unclear if he can rearrange his schedule to testify today. We may not see either of these two on the stand until tomorrow.

She also said that it is unclear, until after this morning's hearing, what, if anything, the judge will rule that the character witnesses can testify to so what I take from this is we really don't know what to expect today at all. :floorlaugh:

I have to wonder why this type of hearing hasn't happened before now as to what the character witnesses testimony will be and if it will be allowed. Seems odd to me that this wasn't dealt with in a pretrial hearing.

 

[Talina]

I'm so curious why they dropped Karen Faye from being called as a witness. I clearly understand why they change their mind about Dr. Adams. He was NOT going to be a good defense witness and has already had his lawyer out saying he was contemplating a civil suit against Dr. Murray for what he said about him in his police interview.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Beth Karas saying in IS that defense plans to call 5 character witnesses today. A hearing outside the jury presence to take place this morning before trial begins to go over exactly what character trait the defense intends to seek to introduce through these witnesses.

She also said that the defense has 2 more witnesses after these character witnesses: Dr. White and an addiction specialist. It is unclear whether or not either of these 2 would be available to testify today if the defense finishes with the character witnesses before the normal trial end time for the day. She said if Dr.White gets back in own in time, he will take the stand today. The addiction specialists has patients scheduled for the day and it is unclear if he can rearrange his schedule to testify today. We may not see either of these two on the stand until tomorrow.

She also said that it is unclear, until after this morning's hearing, what, if anything, the judge will rule that the character witnesses can testify to so what I take from this is we really don't know what to expect today at all. :floorlaugh:

I have to wonder why this type of hearing hasn't happened before now as to what the character witnesses testimony will be and if it will be allowed. Seems odd to me that this wasn't deal with in a pretrial hearing.

I wonder if the ADDICTION Specialist is none other than JVM!!!!!!!!!!!!:floorlaugh: J/K

I know and the DT just seems to run by the seat of their pants. This should have been ironed out a long time ago. Sheesh they had plenty of time to do that when the court was dark for days.

IMO

 

[Talina]

I wonder if the ADDICTION Specialist is none other than JVM!!!!!!!!!!!!:floorlaugh: J/K

I know and the DT just seems to run by the seat of their pants. This should have been ironed out a long time ago. Sheesh they had plenty of time to do that when the court was dark for days.

IMO

OMG...I'll have to take a break and find something else to do if that is the case. :floorlaugh:

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I'm so curious why they dropped Karen Faye from being called as a witness. I clearly understand why they change their mind about Dr. Adams. He was NOT going to be a good defense witness and has already had his lawyer out saying he was contemplating a civil suit against Dr. Murray for what he said about him in his police interview.

Well if they took the indicator on how past witnesses have hurt their case they may have decided to stop the bleeding. I have a feeling they knew Walgren would be ready for Faye to take the stand and once again a witness for the DT would be pulled over to the side of the state.

IMO

 

[Talina]

I wonder what an addiction specialist can testify to since there hasn't been any foundation layed to this point that he could even testify to as far as I know. Seems that Walgren will be objecting as to relevance and judge sustaining quite a bit IMO.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

OMG...I'll have to take a break and find something else to do if that is the case. :floorlaugh:

If that were to actually happen I may have to take a drink to endure it and I don't drink but maybe twice a year!:floorlaugh:

Just think about it.........an addiction expert who drives people to drink.:floorlaugh:

 

[Talina]

If that were to actually happen I may have to take a drink to endure it and I don't drink but maybe twice a year!:floorlaugh:

Just think about it.........an addiction expert who drives people to drink.:floorlaugh:

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I wonder what an addiction specialist can testify to since there hasn't been any foundation layed to this point that he could even testify to as far as I know. Seems that Walgren will be objecting as to relevance and judge sustaining quite a bit IMO.

It reminds me of the grief expert in the CA case who had never even talked to the defendant.:innocent:

How can he know what MJ would do when he has never laid eyes on him.

I hate these kind of experts who only generalize when each case is very specific according to the individual.

Maybe the state needs to come back on rebuttal and have their own expert testify why some doctors cave because of their own financial greed.:floorlaugh:

IMO

 

[Talina]

It reminds me of the grief expert in the CA case who had never even talked to the defendant.:innocent:

How can he know what MJ would do when he has never laid eyes on him.

I hate these kind of experts who only generalize when each case is very specific according to the individual.

Maybe the state needs to come back on rebuttal and have their own expert testify why some doctors cave because of their own financial greed.:floorlaugh:

IMO

I know you were joking about that but on a serious note, do you even see a reason why the prosecution even needs a rebuttal case at this point? I sure don't. Unless the DT comes up with something substantive today or tomorrow I just don't see what the prosecution would even need to rebut.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I know you were joking about that but on a serious note, do you even see a reason why the prosecution even needs a rebuttal case at this point? I sure don't. Unless the DT comes up with something substantive today or tomorrow I just don't see what the prosecution would even need to rebut.

At the moment I do not see one reason for it.

They may have an expert to come back to clear up some of Dr. White's opinions.

IMO

 

[borndem]

:clap: Thanks, Talina! I couldn't believe how fast Flanagan got shut down on direct! :doh:

BBM
From Talina's post and yours, C'Moon, it looks to me like (can you tell I'm from the South -- "it looks to me like" --??!!) the attorneys have essentially given up on their guy... They seem to be abandoning him although they are still showing up in the morning and questioning witnesses. Some degree of estrangement or something is there, I sense.

If this trial were a ball game, I would almost be ready to say the DT was intentionally throwing the game... but not quite yet. We'll see what happens on Wednesday... but CM is looking more and more alone to me. (Wishful thinking, perhaps?)

JMHO, of course...

 

[Talina]

Sunny Hostin on IS right now and I swear...she makes my hair hurt to listen to her.

She says the defense witnesses have helped the defense. Then she says (when shown some replays from some of yesterday testimony) "oh that was significant for the prosecution", then when shown another clip, she says just the opposite. Then she said yesterday that she still believes the prosecution has proven their case beyond a reasonable doubt. She sure is covering all her bases so that whenever the verdict comes down she can say she called it...of course she did..she is on both sides of the fence constantly. Drives me batty to listen to her. :banghead:

 

[Crosby87]

MJ was keeping regular daily appointments with Dr Klein which wiped him out too when rehearsals started. His security guards said MJ's speech was slurred after his visits to Dr. Klein.

Dr. Klein was allegedly giving MJ Demerol and none was detected in his body so I wonder if he gave the "King of Pop" propofol before he performed surgery on his face.

JMO but I don't know why Dr. Klein wouldn't give MJ Propofol at his office.

It seems odd to me that MJ would agree to go to London without Dr Klein there for follow-up.

In one video, MJ asked the cameraman to focus on his nose because his right cheek was wrinkled.

 

[borndem]

Morning!:seeya:

Slow go..real slow go..TxLady. Thank you for asking.

Yes, he might have said that. I thought about that after I had posted and do seem to recall him saying that. So terribly sad his life ended even before he could get to that final closing night. Don't you know that would have been an emotional time for him and all of his fans?

I saw Murray very stressed yesterday and hyperventilating! He has to know it is not looking good for him at all. I don't know what his DT has told him but I hope they have not filled his head full of unrealistic expectations.

IMO

BBM

Good morning, ocean -- I hope your nights get better -- we all know, seriously, how ruff it is when we don't get enuff sleep...

Wow! When the camera was put on CM for a while, sometime yesterday afternoon, I also noticed his chest rising & falling very quickly! So I decided to inhale & exhale when he did, and I got a bit light-headed (and not the kind I enjoy!!). Yes, he was hyperventilating. It was not during testimony, but during one of the little bench breaks when the camera really didn't have anything else it could show. His face looked about the same -- that kind of laid-back scowl, his brow was not particularly knotted, but his breathing was quick and not deep. He doesn't normally give us much idea as to what he's thinking -- or at least I can't read him -- but his breathing really showed me something. :sigh:

 

[Talina]

MJ was keeping regular daily appointments with Dr Klein which wiped him out too when rehearsals started. His security guards said MJ's speech was slurred after his visits to Dr. Klein.

Dr. Klein was allegedly giving MJ Demerol and none was detected in his body so I wonder if he gave the "King of Pop" propofol before he performed surgery on his face.

JMO but I don't know why Dr. Klein wouldn't give MJ Propofol at his office.

It seems odd to me that MJ would agree to go to London without Dr Klein there for follow-up.

In one video, MJ asked the cameraman to focus on his nose because his right cheek was wrinkled.

There is no evidence or testimony that states MJ was having daily appointments with Dr. Klein. Where have you seen that to be the case?

Dr. Klein's attorney has even said that when his medical records, which both sides have, come into evidence we'll all see that what the defense has been saying is very far from the truth.

 

[Crosby87]

There is no evidence or testimony that states MJ was having daily appointments with Dr. Klein. Where have you seen that to be the case?

Dr. Klein's attorney has even said that when his medical records, which both sides have, come into evidence we'll all see that what the defense has been saying is very far from the truth.

Yes there is. MJ's security guards testified in Court that MJ had regular appointments with Dr. Klein in June.
On Tuesday AEG President Randy Phillips told Dr. Murray MJ was seeing Dr. Klein and MJ refused to speak with RP on the phone after he saw Dr. Klein around June 20-25 2009.

I need to revisit Randy Phillips testimony but my understanding is MJ was seeing Dr. Klein during the day in June and he was being medicated during these visits.

M Air and Alberto both testified MJ's speech was slurred as a result of MJ's visits with Klein.

MJ rehearsals afaik were during the week and so were his medical appts with Dr. Klein.

Would it be illegal for Dr. Klein to give MJ propofol, and if so, why?

Rehearsing after you've had a surgical procedure on your face would be extremely painful and unadviseable imo so for this reason MJ wasn't really ready to perform.

JMO

 

[borndem]

It reminds me of the grief expert in the CA case who had never even talked to the defendant.:innocent:

How can he know what MJ would do when he has never laid eyes on him.

I hate these kind of experts who only generalize when each case is very specific according to the individual.

Maybe the state needs to come back on rebuttal and have their own expert testify why some doctors cave because of their own financial greed.:floorlaugh:

IMO

:lol:Hmmmmm.......... methinks oceanblueeyes took a devilish pill :devil:instead of the Motrin this morning!! .. : :jester:

(I love it!!):giggle:
:aktion:

 

[Talina]

It is a fact MJ had regular appointments with Dr. Klein in June because his security guards testified he did.
On Tuesday AEG President Randy Phillips told Dr. Murray MJ was seeing Dr. Klein and MJ refused to speak with RP on the phone after he saw Dr. Klein around June 20-25 2009.

I need to revisit Randy Phillips testimony but my impression was MJ was seeing Dr. Klein during the day in June and he was being medicated during visits.

Was it illegal for Dr. Klein to give MJ propofol and if so, why?

MJ rehearsals afaik were during the week and so were his medical appts with Dr. Klein.

Rehearsing after you've had a surgical procedure on your face would be extremely painful and unadviseable imo so for this reason MJ wasn't really ready to perform.

I don't disagree with you that he was seeing Dr. Klein. What I haven't seen is that he was seeing him on a daily basis. One of his bodyguards is quoted (but not confirmed as far as I know) as having said that at some point MJ was seeing Dr. Klein 3 times a week.

Dr. Kleins lawyer has gone on record on several news shows saying the medical records do not support that claim at all that he was seeing Dr. Klein 3 times a week in the months leading up to his death. Unless his medical records are brought into evidence somehow (and at this point in the trial I don't see how they will be) we'll never know the actual numbers of times, what was done or what medication he was given. Frankly, to me, it is a red herring from the defense team. Nothing was found in the toxicology reports that were any drugs outside of what Dr. Murray was giving to MJ.

Also, I don't think it has ever been alleged that Dr. Klein was giving MJ propofol. I think, IIRC, the allegations of drugs regarding Dr. Klein is Demerol.


IMO