Conrad Murray Trial - Day Twenty

[CarolinaMoon]

Credence, thanks so much for the link to the motion filed by Walgren. (http://ww2.lasuperiorcourt.org/hp/kusbj2jfzfjuhcqf1jb2znv0/1448500652.pdf)

As I didn't follow the case very closely the past two years, I was wondering why the prosecution team was focusing on Murray's little chat with LE and limiting its testimony to the "facts" that came out of it. It explained to me clearly why Dr. White wouldn't take the case until he talked to CM. It obviously was a DT tactic to change the "story" in a back-door sorta' way. It didn't work.

Obviously, White wouldn't have taken the case based on what CM told LE because when taken as fact, it fell apart so easily. I am so pleased that a little bit of that factoid got out to the jury before White was shut down. Can't un-ring the bell, and it is in their heads that he interviewed Murray before attempting to come up with a plausible theory.

LOL! If there was no infusion, why was there proopofol in the Y? Did MJ supposedly inject the propofol directly into the joint? As a relatively uninformed trial watcher, it makes no sense to me. There just had to be that drip.

Oh, how I wish there was some way to get before the jury that CM told two different experts two different stories! I especially loved the part where in Dr. White's statement he opined it was possible CM put the lidocane-propofol in the juice container!

Peeps, if you haven't already read this, please do! It's a look on the dark side of Dr. White and a Dr. Haraszti, who never made it to the witness stand.

 

[borndem]

BBM

Interestingly enough as well, the DT has not, with any of its witnesses, even attempted to defend what is bolded. Why? Because there is no defense and those alone are what caused MJ's death.

'Nuff said. Period. Guilty.

Call your next case.

And Good Monday Morning, Sleuthers!! :seeya:

Let's get this show on the road!

 

[borndem]

I know none of us want to see a short cross examination of Dr. White by Walgren but, honestly, he could make it very short indeed.

Walgreen: Dr. White, would you ever give propofol in a home or clinical setting with no assistance?
Walgreen: Dr. White, would you ever give propofol in a home or clinical setting with no monitoring equipment?
Walgreen: Dr. White, would you ever have multiple bottles of IV drugs and oral medications within reach of a patient that you were sedating?
Walgreen: Dr. White, would you ever leave a patient unattended after having administered propofol without having that patient completely out of sedation and verbally and physically responding to you?
Walgreen: Dr. White, you have answered no to all of the questions asked so far. Is there any amount of money that would convince you to change any of those answers to "yes"?

No further questions your honor.

White:
. Ouch!

. Ouch!

. Ouch!

. Ouch!

. Ouch!

. Ouch!

. Ouch!

. Ouch!

. Could you please ask me an easy one now, Mr. Walgren? I have been having sleeping problems lately and I wanna go home now. <tremble>

(Oohh, you're a tuff one, Talina! You Go!)

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Credence, thanks so much for the link to the motion filed by Walgren. (http://ww2.lasuperiorcourt.org/hp/kusbj2jfzfjuhcqf1jb2znv0/1448500652.pdf)

As I didn't follow the case very closely the past two years, I was wondering why the prosecution team was focusing on Murray's little chat with LE and limiting its testimony to the "facts" that came out of it. It explained to me clearly why Dr. White wouldn't take the case until he talked to CM. It obviously was a DT tactic to change the "story" in a back-door sorta' way. It didn't work.

Obviously, White wouldn't have taken the case based on what CM told LE because when taken as fact, it fell apart so easily. I am so pleased that a little bit of that factoid got out to the jury before White was shut down. Can't un-ring the bell, and it is in their heads that he interviewed Murray before attempting to come up with a plausible theory.

LOL! If there was no infusion, why was there proopofol in the Y? Did MJ supposedly inject the propofol directly into the joint? As a relatively uninformed trial watcher, it makes no sense to me. There just had to be that drip.

Oh, how I wish there was some way to get before the jury that CM told two different experts two different stories! I especially loved the part where in Dr. White's statement he opined it was possible CM put the lidocane-propofol in the juice container!

Peeps, if you haven't already read this, please do! It's a look on the dark side of Dr. White and a Dr. Haraszti, who never made it to the witness stand.

It clearly shows if Murray is bold or arrogant enough to take that witness stand all of this is going to come back at him ten-fold.

He just lies on a whim. Making it up as he went depending on who he was speaking with at the moment.

imo

 

[borndem]

Good Morning everyone and Happy Halloween!!! :seeya:

Boo!!!
​

 

[Talina]

It clearly shows if Murray is bold or arrogant enough to take that witness stand all of this is going to come back at him ten-fold.

He just lies on a whim. Making it up as he went depending on who he was speaking with at the moment.

imo

I would soooooo love it if CM would take the stand. We'd need to have EMS on standby though. I think Chernoff and Flanagan would need some resuscitation the second he said he wanted to testify.

Walgren on the other hand would have a hard time holding back his smile.



IMO

 

[CarolinaMoon]

It clearly shows if Murray is bold or arrogant enough to take that witness stand all of this is going to come back at him ten-fold.

He just lies on a whim. Making it up as he went depending on who he was speaking with at the moment.

imo

ITA! He also thinks his charismatic personality will get him through the tough stuff.

I'm betting he won't testify based on his lawyers sitting on him all weekend. However, his ego could win out.

 

[borndem]

Credence, thanks so much for the link to the motion filed by Walgren. (http://ww2.lasuperiorcourt.org/hp/kusbj2jfzfjuhcqf1jb2znv0/1448500652.pdf)

As I didn't follow the case very closely the past two years, I was wondering why the prosecution team was focusing on Murray's little chat with LE and limiting its testimony to the "facts" that came out of it. It explained to me clearly why Dr. White wouldn't take the case until he talked to CM. It obviously was a DT tactic to change the "story" in a back-door sorta' way. It didn't work.

Obviously, White wouldn't have taken the case based on what CM told LE because when taken as fact, it fell apart so easily. I am so pleased that a little bit of that factoid got out to the jury before White was shut down. Can't un-ring the bell, and it is in their heads that he interviewed Murray before attempting to come up with a plausible theory.

LOL! If there was no infusion, why was there proopofol in the Y? Did MJ supposedly inject the propofol directly into the joint? As a relatively uninformed trial watcher, it makes no sense to me. There just had to be that drip.

Oh, how I wish there was some way to get before the jury that CM told two different experts two different stories! I especially loved the part where in Dr. White's statement he opined it was possible CM put the lidocane-propofol in the juice container!

Peeps, if you haven't already read this, please do! It's a look on the dark side of Dr. White and a Dr. Haraszti, who never made it to the witness stand.

BBM - You're exactly right, C'moon -- I didn't see it until Credence put it out there for us. Yes, a must-read. But it does upset me, too, that the jury won't see it.

 

[Isabelle]

Now watching Dr. White's testimony from Friday (I had patients to see):

The theory of Michael taking the excessive Lorazepam has major, major flaws, the primary one being only a very small amount was found in the stomach and secondly the peak action of Lorazepam orally is approximately 2.5 hours. Consider Michael would have had to take the Lorazepam during the only time Conrad left the room and he was gone only 2 minutes! The Lorazepam tablets would have still been in Michael's stomach or a higher concentration would have been found in the stomach fluids and they were not.

A better theory would be Michael opened the roller clamp on the gravity flow Propofol, but DT denies strongly that Conrad used a Propofol drip, so Michael couldn't do that either.

Not sure how the DT can go with this, except with the truth.

ETA: If Michael injected a syringe full of propofol, 100mg, he would have had to know to pinch off the tubing above the injection site to prevent the propofol from ascending up the tubing and into the saline bag - the path of least resistance. This won't work either. Sure hope PT reads here, but am sure they know all of this already.

 

[borndem]

It clearly shows if Murray is bold or arrogant enough to take that witness stand all of this is going to come back at him ten-fold.

He just lies on a whim. Making it up as he went depending on who he was speaking with at the moment.

imo

Yes, ocean, re his initial statement to the LE.

I agree with someone on here who said, way upstream from here, that CM lightly, arrogantly, and blithely made these initial statements thinking that it would be the last time he would have to speak about it. With his charm, "sincerity," and I-AM-the-doctor attitude, I'm sure he felt that they'd buy it & life would go on, well except for the whopping $150,000/month salary.

Then, he realized that this scenario would not pass the smell test, so he changed it just a teensy-weensy-itty-bit (who would notice, anyway?) and let that one reek in the wind.

Heh, heh, heh. Talk about chickens coming home to roost.:chicken: ... :hen: .... :chicken: ... :hen: ..... :chicken: ....... :hen:

Yes, our man CM laid a couple of :turkey: ... :turkey: ... here, folks!

(It's a shame we don't have a crow symbol, too. That's what I hope he has for his 1st jailhouse meal...)

With a :rubberducky::rubberducky: here,
and a :rubberducky::rubberducky: there,
here a:rubberducky:,
there a :rubberducky:,
everywhere a :rubberducky::rubberducky:.

 

[peace9274]

Good Morning everyone and Happy Halloween!!! :seeya:

Good Morning to you, Talina... and to everyone else! :seeya:


Happy Halloween:websleuther:
From Peace & Her Group of Trick or Treaters!!

:cheer: :Bananacostume::Banane18:ut em up: :cop:
:Banane29: :Banane38: irate::dracula::sponge: :bud:
:devil: arrot: :cowboy: :Bananabert::jester: :genie:

 

[borndem]

Now watching Dr. White's testimony from Friday (I had patients to see):

The theory of Michael taking the excessive Lorazepam has major, major flaws, the primary one being only a very small amount was found in the stomach and secondly the peak action of Lorazepam orally is approximately 2.5 hours. Consider Michael would have had to take the Lorazepam during the only time Conrad left the room and he was gone only 2 minutes! The Lorazepam tablets would have still been in Michael's stomach or a higher concentration would have been found in the stomach fluids and they were not.

A better theory would be Michael opened the roller clamp on the gravity flow Propofol, but DT denies strongly that Conrad used a Propofol drip, so Michael couldn't do that either.

Not sure how the DT can go with this, except with the truth.

ETA: If Michael injected a syringe full of propofol, 100mg, he would have had to know to pinch off the tubing above the injection site to prevent the propofol from ascending up the tubing and into the saline bag - the path of least resistance. This won't work either. Sure hope PT reads here, but am sure they know all of this already.

Wow, Isabelle -- those are excellent & informative comments for those of us (myself, at least) who don't know that much about giving IV's and tubes, etc., etc. I didn't know about the path of least resistance (no physics here, either), but it does make sense. Good info.

And yeah, PT, please see & take note!!

 

[borndem]

Good Morning to you, Talina... and to everyone else! :seeya:


Happy Halloween:websleuther:
From Peace & Her Group of Trick or Treaters!!

:cheer: :Bananacostume::Banane18:ut em up: :cop:
:Banane29: :Banane38: irate::dracula::sponge: :bud:
:devil: arrot: :cowboy: :Bananabert::jester: :genie:

Thanks for the show, peace! Which one of those characters is you!?

 

[Credence]

IIRC, ocean, you are right. There was extensive telecommunication testimony during the long Bradley Cooper (found guilty of 1st Deg. Murder for murdering his wife -- Cary, NC). He was a telly-com guru who worked for Cisco & had lots of ways to place calls from one phone & let it look like it came from another phone, etc., etc.

The PT called in the super-techies of the phone companies, reading their internal records -- not what one would see on their phone bill -- and which cell towers received-passed, pings, type of call (fax, voice, data, lft. msg. etc., etc.), and they testified all about it, but it gets to be very, very sophisticated (makes medicine look like child's play, almost -- with all due respect to medicine) and was tuff, tuff, dry, dry testimony. But yes, it can be done, but there'e no way IMO that that could be done at this stage in the trial -- it would cause the case to drag out at least another week -- and no discovery, and all that.

(The Cooper case is on WS; Cooper was convicted in May, 2011, so not too far back, FYI.)

Good morning; Happy Halloween InSessions is reviewing Dr. White's testimony prior to trial resuming today.

Just to clarify: I agree with all you have said here except you cannot tell if a phone has been answered or not. On a landline you can if you use the company offered voice mail (meaning not an answering machine at home) because the number is routed to the carrier's central office voice mail number. I did not get into all of the towers, pings because it is not relevant in Dr. Murray's case but it is a lot of technical stuff going on behind the scenes.

 

[peace9274]

Thanks for the show, peace! Which one of those characters is you!?

Woo hoo - I knew I wouldn't be recognized!
I'm the one in the Sherlock Holmes costume!

 

[outofstatelawyer]

The "reporters" comments on HLN are incredibly irritating (and stoopid!). The sun also rises in the East.

 

[borndem]

Good morning; Happy Halloween InSessions is reviewing Dr. White's testimony prior to trial resuming today.

Just to clarify: I agree with all you have said here except you cannot tell if a phone has been answered or not. On a landline you can if you use the company offered voice mail (meaning not an answering machine at home) because the number is routed to the carrier's central office voice mail number. I did not get into all of the towers, pings because it is not relevant in Dr. Murray's case but it is a lot of technical stuff going on behind the scenes.

Yes, Credence, that is true. Cooper, as I said was some kind of specially-degreed developer of Voice something or other (he had some kind of certification that only several thousand people in the world have -- ?? -- no idea, but you probably know ...), and he often worked at home, so he had a lot of routers, CISCO tech equipment for receiving/sending calls, and I-don't-know-what-all at his home office. He had the know-how and ability with soft- and hardware to insert special code in the operations as he was setting up the calls, etc. And that's about all I am either bold or stupid :doh: enuff to say here!! hwow:

If you ever have the time, and you aren't familiar with this case, and you really like digging into & hearing this way-up-there-tele-stuff, you would probably really enjoy the telecom-forensics in the Cooper case.

And Good Morning to you, and Trick or Treat!!

 

[Credence]

The "reporters" comments on HLN are incredibly irritating (and stoopid!). The sun also rises in the East.

I am watching InSessions. I prefer listening to Beth K. She is really the only TH that I have found credible and knows what she is talking about.

Sunny Hostin (sp?) was just commenting on the addiction specialist and said she did not find his testimony credible. He was so argumentative and hostile towards Walgren; just came across as a "hired gun" and I agree.

I hope White gets like that. LOL

 

[borndem]

The "reporters" comments on HLN are incredibly irritating (and stoopid!). The sun also rises in the East.

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[Thundar]

Credence, thanks so much for the link to the motion filed by Walgren. (http://ww2.lasuperiorcourt.org/hp/kusbj2jfzfjuhcqf1jb2znv0/1448500652.pdf)

As I didn't follow the case very closely the past two years, I was wondering why the prosecution team was focusing on Murray's little chat with LE and limiting its testimony to the "facts" that came out of it. It explained to me clearly why Dr. White wouldn't take the case until he talked to CM. It obviously was a DT tactic to change the "story" in a back-door sorta' way. It didn't work.

Obviously, White wouldn't have taken the case based on what CM told LE because when taken as fact, it fell apart so easily. I am so pleased that a little bit of that factoid got out to the jury before White was shut down. Can't un-ring the bell, and it is in their heads that he interviewed Murray before attempting to come up with a plausible theory.

LOL! If there was no infusion, why was there proopofol in the Y? Did MJ supposedly inject the propofol directly into the joint? As a relatively uninformed trial watcher, it makes no sense to me. There just had to be that drip.

Oh, how I wish there was some way to get before the jury that CM told two different experts two different stories! I especially loved the part where in Dr. White's statement he opined it was possible CM put the lidocane-propofol in the juice container!

Peeps, if you haven't already read this, please do! It's a look on the dark side of Dr. White and a Dr. Haraszti, who never made it to the witness stand.

Thank you for posting that link again. I somehow missed it the first time around. A really good read.

So Murray told three different stories, one in his LE interview, one to White, and one to the other expert. The story evolved to put the blame on MJ more and more as time went on, imagine that. I also feel bad that the jury won't know about any of this before making their determination of guilt. I wonder how many stories Murray told to his defense. No wonder they don't know where to go with their questions, it probably depends on what story they are going with on that day....