Cords, Knots, and Strangulation Devices

[otg]

(edited) ...except I can't see where the tail of the cord is in the photo.

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[MurriFlower]

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Hmm, not too sure otg, that looks rounded like a loop.

Notice how the other end and pieces from her arms are frayed on the edges?

 

[Tadpole12]

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Heyya otg.

I had the same thought, that it might be an end.
Unsure however, but the reverse image has what could be a nub of the tail end of rope. (upper left below 6 CM mark of ruler)

[ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showpost.php?p=180019&postcount=5"]Forums For Justice - View Single Post - Ramsey home: Basement photos[/ame]

 

[otg]

Hmm, not too sure otg, that looks rounded like a loop.

Have you ever tied a knot, and then cut the excess off with scissors? Why would there be no fraying then?

Notice how the other end and pieces from her arms are frayed on the edges?

Yes, exactly! Notice how the other ends are frayed. Why would they be so frayed -- especially the one closest to the loop that came off her left wrist?

Notice also where the neck ligature was cut by the coroner. No fraying, but you can see where the inner portion of the cord (the woven center from our previous conversation) is pulled out slightly, but it is not frayed.

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[otg]

Heyya otg.

I had the same thought, that it might be an end.
Unsure however, but the reverse image has what could be a nub of the tail end of rope. (upper left below 6 CM mark of ruler)

Forums For Justice - View Single Post - Ramsey home: Basement photos

Heyya, Tad.

I see what you're referring (would that be "refering" for our Brit friends) to, but the picture resolution sure makes it hard to make out. At first it really had me puzzled, because I was looking at where it would be in relation to the wraps so I could find it on the opposite side in the other picture. Looks to be between the first and second wraps on the paintbrush. Yes?

I couldn't find anything that would correspond in the other picture. Then I realized that what I was doing was imagining turning it over (end to end) and looking for it on the opposite end between same wraps. But something didn't look right -- the end wraps didn't slant toward the center (centre?) the way they should.

:banghead:

Did you do the same thing?

It's not turned over like that for the pictures. Look at the direction that the long cord end comes away from the paintbrush in each picture. The two sides of the knot are shown by rotating the paintbrush 180 degrees (i.e., the cord turns the paintbrush over by lifting it over). See what I mean?

So what you see in the picture you pointed out is the same end shown in the picture I posted. (Does that make sense?)
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[Tadpole12]

Yes otg,

the poor resolution makes it dissicult to distinguish.

Yes, the nub appears to be between the first and second strands from the right:

[ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showpost.php?p=180019&postcount=5"]Forums For Justice - View Single Post - Ramsey home: Basement photos[/ame]


Yes, "the end wraps didn't slant toward the center (centre?) the way they should."

:banghead:


Yes, flipped 180 on the horizontal axis.

 

[MurriFlower]

Thanks for all your work on this otg. I was otherwise engaged when this thread started and this is the only chance I've had to read right from the beginning.

I know we've got off the track a little of where you were going, so I'd like to correct that.

You have explained that the final result of the cord/stick was not what logically the strangulation device. I've tried it out and agree.

What I don't agree with though is that she was 'hanged' and I think others have also questioned this.

What I'm wondering, and thinking it may fit with what you have already discovered, is that the original 'strangulation' was achieved simply by wrapping the cord once around her neck with a twist (as you do when wrapping a parcel) and pulled by hand in opposite directions?

What I'll say next is something I read in a similar situation where a man tried to strangle his 2yo son. First he tried with his hands, but that wasn't successful, then he took off his shoelaces and used that. The upshot was that he gave up before the child died, but sadly he was left with brain damage from oxygen deprivation.

So, if the cord was used to strangle until she became unconscious (just disregarding the head bash for a moment), this may have taken some time and effort. However, just to ensure it was totally effective, the perp tied off one end, maintaining the strain around her throat and tied the stick to the other end. The reason for this is that it would be much easier/more comfortable for the time taken for life to be extinguished, rather than lying or kneeling on the floor, pulling the cord in two different directions.

Does this make any sense at all??

 

[DeeDee249]

Thanks for all your work on this otg. I was otherwise engaged when this thread started and this is the only chance I've had to read right from the beginning.

I know we've got off the track a little of where you were going, so I'd like to correct that.

You have explained that the final result of the cord/stick was not what logically the strangulation device. I've tried it out and agree.

What I don't agree with though is that she was 'hanged' and I think others have also questioned this.

What I'm wondering, and thinking it may fit with what you have already discovered, is that the original 'strangulation' was achieved simply by wrapping the cord once around her neck with a twist (as you do when wrapping a parcel) and pulled by hand in opposite directions?

Does this make any sense at all??

Yes- it makes perfect sense to me. (surprised?) I also agree with you that she was NOT hanged- (more surprises).
I think that all that was needed to put an already unconscious (from the head bash) JB over the point from life to death was wrapping the cord and pulling tight enough to compress the vagus nerve, stopping her heart. It wouldn't have taken much.
Sadly, kids engaging in "strangulation" play, either for sexual enhancement or the "rush" they feel from oxygen depravation, sometimes exert too much pressure on the vagus nerve and stop their hearts without realizing what they are doing, and all of a sudden- they die.
This comment is NOT to suggest by any means that JB was doing this to herself. But many people here, both RDI and IDI, consider the strangulation to be part of a sexual activity with JB.(and she was NOT a willing participant, so please don't go there). Much less pressure than you realize is needed to cause pressure on the vagus nerve and stop the heart, and there doesn't have to be anything wrapped completely around the neck.

 

[MurriFlower]

Yes- it makes perfect sense to me. (surprised?) I also agree with you that she was NOT hanged- (more surprises).
I think that all that was needed to put an already unconscious (from the head bash) JB over the point from life to death was wrapping the cord and pulling tight enough to compress the vagus nerve, stopping her heart. It wouldn't have taken much.
Sadly, kids engaging in "strangulation" play, either for sexual enhancement or the "rush" they feel from oxygen depravation, sometimes exert too much pressure on the vagus nerve and stop their hearts without realizing what they are doing, and all of a sudden- they die.
This comment is NOT to suggest by any means that JB was doing this to herself. But many people here, both RDI and IDI, consider the strangulation to be part of a sexual activity with JB.(and she was NOT a willing participant, so please don't go there). Much less pressure than you realize is needed to cause pressure on the vagus nerve and stop the heart, and there doesn't have to be anything wrapped completely around the neck.

Yeah, a bit surprised!!

What I was getting at, with relating another strangulation story, was that MANY people believe that it is fairly easy to kill someone, especially a child, by strangulation. However, that story just demonstrated that a grown man could not easily strangle a 2yo, either with his hands or a ligature and although the child was permanently damaged, he actually gave up trying to kill him as it proved very difficult.

So, while people may accidently die from pressure in the vagus nerve, this is not necessarily the case in every strangulation and in fact, it may be a quite prolonged procedure where pressure continues to be neccessary, even following unconsciousness, before death eventually results.

 

[rashomon]

Playing here with the cord and a pen trying to get something similar. Ok, take the pen to about the length you want it to end up, wrap the cord over the pen and bring it back at an angle three times on one side of the cord, then do the same on the other side of the cord, tuck the loose end through the last loop and you have something similar to what we see there, edited to add, except I can't see where the tail of the cord is in the photo.

MF,
I tried about the same experiment as you a while ago with a pencil and cord and got a similar result.

edited to add, except I can't see where the tail of the cord is in the photo.

You mean in the cirme sene picture showing the cord wrapped around the paintbrush piece? The end of the cord is the cylindrical piece on the right hand side. Maybe this end was still "melted" and had not yet been cut. For nylon, when cut, always frays.

http://www.acandyrose.com/garrote2.jpg

The amount of JonBenet's hair entangled in the cord wrappings indicates that the stager of the scene (imo there is no doubt that this element of the crime scene was staged) wrapped the cord around the wooden piece when JonBenet was lying motionless, already in a coma nearing death.
And wasn't there also a fiber from the jacket Patsy had been wearing to the the Whites' party found in the cord wrappings?
Another of Patsy's jacket fibers was found the paint tote, one (or more?) on the blanket covering the dead body, and four (!) of her jacket fibers were found on the duct tape.
The fiber evidence against Patsy is so incriminating because all these fibers were found in locations directly connected to the child's violent death.

 

[UKGuy]

MF,
I tried about the same experiment as you a while ago with a pencil and cord and got a similar result.
You mean in the cirme sene picture showing the cord wrapped around the paintbrush piece? The end of the cord is the cylindrical piece on the right hand side. Maybe this end was still "melted" and had not yet been cut. For nylon, when cut, always frays.

http://www.acandyrose.com/garrote2.jpg

The amount of JonBenet's hair entangled in the cord wrappings indicates that the stager of the scene (imo there is no doubt that this element of the crime scene was staged) wrapped the cord around the wooden piece when JonBenet was lying motionless, already in a coma nearing death.
And wasn't there also a fiber from the jacket Patsy had been wearing to the the Whites' party found in the cord wrappings?
Another of Patsy's jacket fibers was found the paint tote, one (or more?) on the blanket covering the dead body, and four (!) of her jacket fibers were found on the duct tape.
The fiber evidence against Patsy is so incriminating because all these fibers were found in locations directly connected to the child's violent death.

rashomon,
Well put, and of course Patsy is on record denying visiting the basement that day or night.


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[BBB167893]

Note to RDI: please spare the 'staging' stuff as I've heard it n times.

Sorry, HOTYH. I don't take requests.

The rectangular hole thru JBR's skull doesn't look anything like staging to me, OK?

I'm not aware of anyone who says it WAS, HOTYH. This is a strawman argument.

Neither does the deep furrow around her neck with petechial hemorrhaging. Its the real deal.

It's still staging if the person didn't know she was alive.

 

[UKGuy]

Sorry, HOTYH. I don't take requests.



I'm not aware of anyone who says it WAS, HOTYH. This is a strawman argument.



It's still staging if the person didn't know she was alive.

SuperDave,

Well said. I guess JonBenet's chronic internal injuries are not staging, likewise the digital penetration and sexual contact cited by Coroner Meyer.

Anyone know why Lou Smit never solved his most famous case, he had dna, he had fibers, he had artifacts, all allegedly owned by the intruder?

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[Holdontoyourhat]

Anyone know why Lou Smit never solved his most famous case, he had dna, he had fibers, he had artifacts, allegedly owned by the intruder?

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I know why. The perps are out of the country and not within the scope of CODIS, and not subject to handwriting or linguistic comparisons. Family member's can't come forward like Kaczynsk's did. Things will probably stay this way.

 

[otg]

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A quick refresher for anyone who might have missed how I got to the point I am at:

Part - 1 [The Garrote That’s Not]

Part - 2 [The Wrist Knots]

Part - 3 [The Knot Around JonBenet’s Neck]

Part - 4 [The Knot Tied to the Stick]

Part - 5 [Tying It All Together]

As you read what I am about to write, I ask you to put aside your beliefs about what happened. Forget about the things that happened afterward that make you think that “RDI”, or “IDI”. Forget about the things that you want to believe because you just can’t image that someone in a certain situation would do this, or not do that. Forget about what someone might or might not have said in an interview three of five years after the fact. And forget about any “expert’s” opinion, or what was printed in a newspaper article or tabloid journal (surely we know not to put much faith in any of that). Forget it all for now and look only at the evidence of what caused JonBenet’s death.

If you have followed my numbered posts so far, you know that I believe that the ligature evidence and the markings on her neck show that JonBenet was strangled by hanging -- not the staged “garrote”. There is just way too much that points away from the paintbrush being actually used in the way it is tied to the cord to think that it is not part of the staging that was done to hide what actually happened.

So even if you disagree with me on this, consider for a moment that when she died, if the paintbrush was not there, how could she have been hung? I would point out again the frayed ends of the cord that I talked about before. If the knot tied to the paintbrush was not there, what we have left is three somewhat similar knots (similar in their lack of complexity) tied somewhat randomly with no particular intent other than to hold them in place. Consider that before she was killed, the cord was one continuous piece in the way that it was used, and that it was eventually cut while under strain causing the fraying.

I think that this was the case, and that the scenario went something like this:

The right wrist was tied first, and then the left wrist. Neither of these two knots was tied tightly. They were put there simply to restrain, or at least add a feeling of restraint -- maybe even in a “playful” way. Then the longer end of the cord is put over one of the many pipes that run all over the basement and then tied around her neck with a slipknot so it can be tightened just enough to make JonBenet feel like she has to stay right there. It would not have been secured tightly around her neck; it would have some slack in it and lie loosely around her neck and rest at the base of her neck. There is no intent to kill or harm her in any way with the cord. This is all done simply to make her feel she can’t go running out of the room. This was all done to keep her there while the reason for doing it was carried out. That reason was the “molestation”.

As so many “experts” have pointed out, there was no sexual gratification in a traditional sense. There was no semen found anywhere on or in her body, there was none found in the room, there was no penile or large object insertion. The only thing that occurred of a sexual nature was insertion of something “consistent with digital insertion” -- something that was inserted causing the acute injuries noted in the autopsy report. Whether or not this had occurred in the past is still being debated and will probably never be resolved with any certainty, but the acute injuries cannot be denied. It’s possible (and I give credence to it) that similar things had happened in the past. Perhaps this was an escalation of what had happened prior to that night. For now though, let’s go on and leave that debate for another time. The assault (and that is what it was) that happened associated with her death is fact that is documented in the AR. It was, I believe, the reason she was brought to the basement as far away from the others in the house as possible.

By the lack of damage to her neck internally (“Examination of the thyroid cartilage, cricoid cartilage and hyoid bone disclose no evidence of fracture or hemorrhage.”), I would posit that the hanging did not occur from a high distance. Was she standing on something or simply standing in place? Either could be the case, but because of the lack of damage to her neck, I would think she was simply standing on the floor.

Once this was done, the molestation began. Some may reason that JonBenet had to have been a willing, docile, or at the least -- a passive participant in this, at least at the start. It could be argued that her “sexuallization” by Patsy may have contributed to that. But certainly at her age, no one could expect her to know just how vulnerable she was at that point or how much danger she was in because of the circumstances that had been set up. I won’t try to argue any of those points here, because I’m trying to look only at what the evidence tells us happened to cause her death.

So JonBenet is restrained with the cord tied around her wrists, and the continuous piece of cord goes from her left wrist over something above her head, and then is tied around her neck. The end of the artist’s paintbrush (unbroken) is inserted enough to cause injury and obviously _____ pain (ladies can add what ever adjective they feel appropriate in the space before the word “pain” -- sharp, extreme, terrible, intense, severe, tremendous). She screams. The scream may have been from the pain; it could have been from her looking down and seeing the blood. According to one account, Melody Stanton was awakened by “one loud, incredible scream”. She related that it was “obviously from a child” and that it lasted 3 to 5 seconds and then abruptly stopped. After the scream began -- panic. An object is picked up and she is struck over the head (“and then abruptly stopped”). Exactly what the object was is debatable. Even the investigators who are privy to all of the evidence disagree. Was it a bat, a flashlight, or maybe even a fireplace log tool? I think it was a putter golf club turned to where the tip of the back end of it hit her head with the full weight and force concentrated in that one small area.

Regardless of what the object was, the blow to her head caused her to lose consciousness. Her head dropped and her body fell forward. The weight of her upper torso pulling on the cord raised her left arm and tightened the left wrist knot on itself. At the same time, the slipknot around her neck tightened and strangled the life out of her.

Everyone likes to ask and debate, which came first -- the head blow or the strangulation? Experts can’t agree. What they do agree on is that either one of the injuries alone could have caused her death. Technically, in this scenario, the head blow came first. But there would only be a second or so between the two injuries, so they effectively occurred simultaneously. This is the reason the autopsy findings are so inconclusive on the exact cause of death -- both injuries were killing her at the same time.

“CLINICOPATHLOGIC CORRELATION: Cause of death of this six year old female is asphyxia by strangulation associated with craniocerebral trauma.”

This is how the evidence says JonBenet died. There was no murder. There was no violent rape. There was no jealousy or rage involved in the head blow, only fear of being caught and a desire to stop the scream. There was never any kidnapping. There was no crime committed in her death -- just a terrible, tragic accident. Everything else is staging and cover-up. But that is where the crime was committed. The cover-up was a crime, but it will never be proven.

So now to explain the staging that is associated with the evidence that we know and that we have discussed here.

It should be obvious by now that I think that the sexual aspect of this was of a juvenile nature. It was a curiosity of sex that was being acted out on a person of convenience. It, and the cord tied around her neck, created a dangerous situation that was set up by someone who didn’t have the maturity to imagine the possible consequences of the things that were done. So I believe that when faced with a situation that might have required an immediate response, he didn’t know what to do. Did John and Patsy hear the scream and go running through the house to find where it came from and discover what happened, or did Burke wait until he felt he had to go wake them and tell them what had happened because they didn’t hear her scream? (We’ll never know the answer to that, but consider Patsy’s later statement: “Why didn’t I hear my baby?”) But either way, when they did find JonBenet dead and hanging from the ceiling, John’s first reaction, as would any father’s reaction be, would be to cut the cord and get her down. Because of the weight of JonBenet on the cord, this would cause the cord to fray as it was cut. It would be obvious at this point that she was dead. Medical attention would be of no value. Even Patsy would have known that Jesus was not going to “raise her baby from the dead as He did Lazurus”.

So they were faced with the question of what to do. If they called the police, they would face everyone in the community knowing what had happened. I don’t imagine they knew that Burke was one-month shy of being able to be charged with any crime, so for all they knew, he might be charged with negligent homicide or wrongful death.

Now it’s time to do something. I believe they decided at this point to stage the entire thing to look like someone else was responsible. They also tried to completely remove any evidence of the sexual aspect, cleaning the blood from her body and changing any clothes that may have had any blood on them. The end of the paintbrush with blood and vaginal fluids was broken off so it would be small enough that it could be hidden, discarded, burned, or carried out in a pocket or anything else. Then the brush part was broken off to leave a wooden stick to tie the cord to, making it look like (in their minds anyway) a professional killing device. In the process of breaking it, small pieces of wood break off in shards and go unnoticed until found much later by BPD. The cord is tied to the middle piece so close to JonBenet’s hair that it gets caught in the knot.
[Sidenote: Ever wonder when she was found if the stick was tangled in her hair, if the hair had been pulled out by the root, or if it had been cut with scissors? Have you ever heard it said?]


Granted, there is a lot in the overall picture of what was found afterward that is still left unanswered. Did all of the staging and cover-up happen in the basement, or was she carried upstairs at some point between her death and her being laid out in the wine cellar? Was her body moved a second time before being “discovered” by John when he loosened and removed the knot on her left wrist? Was the broken brush end of Patsy’s paintbrush in the paint tote tested for fingerprints, and if it had none -- why not? Why was the flashlight and even the batteries in it wiped clean of fingerprints? How did the pineapple play into all this?

I’m sure you have your own questions, and we can debate them from now on, but the answers won’t change the evidence of how JonBenet. And if you consider the scenario I just laid out, doesn’t everything else in the behavior of all the people associated with this make sense? Does it not explain why Burke’s voice can be heard on the 911 call? Does it make sense now why Burke would stay in his room all morning long not coming down to ask what all the commotion was when they were supposed to be leaving for Michigan that morning? And when he was led through the house to leave for someone else’s home, why didn’t he even ask, “What are the police and all these people doing here? Did something happen?” Does it not explain some of the bizarre things that John and Patsy did and said after their child was killed, and why they would hire attorneys almost immediately to help them avoid being questioned by police? And how about John Andrew’s answer to what should be done to the person who killed his sister? -- “He should be forgiven.”

If you at least consider this, is there anything that doesn’t make sense?
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[Chrishope]

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A quick refresher for anyone who might have missed how I got to the point I am at:







As you read what I am about to write, I ask you to put aside your beliefs about what happened. Forget about the things that happened afterward that make you think that “RDI”, or “IDI”. Forget about the things that you want to believe because you just can’t image that someone in a certain situation would do this, or not do that. Forget about what someone might or might not have said in an interview three of five years after the fact. And forget about any “expert’s” opinion, or what was printed in a newspaper article or tabloid journal (surely we know not to put much faith in any of that). Forget it all for now and look only at the evidence of what caused JonBenet’s death.

If you have followed my numbered posts so far, you know that I believe that the ligature evidence and the markings on her neck show that JonBenet was strangled by hanging -- not the staged “garrote”. There is just way too much that points away from the paintbrush being actually used in the way it is tied to the cord to think that it is not part of the staging that was done to hide what actually happened.

So even if you disagree with me on this, consider for a moment that when she died, if the paintbrush was not there, how could she have been hung? I would point out again the frayed ends of the cord that I talked about before. If the knot tied to the paintbrush was not there, what we have left is three somewhat similar knots (similar in their lack of complexity) tied somewhat randomly with no particular intent other than to hold them in place. Consider that before she was killed, the cord was one continuous piece in the way that it was used, and that it was eventually cut while under strain causing the fraying.

I think that this was the case, and that the scenario went something like this:

The right wrist was tied first, and then the left wrist. Neither of these two knots was tied tightly. They were put there simply to restrain, or at least add a feeling of restraint -- maybe even in a “playful” way. Then the longer end of the cord is put over one of the many pipes that run all over the basement and then tied around her neck with a slipknot so it can be tightened just enough to make JonBenet feel like she has to stay right there. It would not have been secured tightly around her neck; it would have some slack in it and lie loosely around her neck and rest at the base of her neck. There is no intent to kill or harm her in any way with the cord. This is all done simply to make her feel she can’t go running out of the room. This was all done to keep her there while the reason for doing it was carried out. That reason was the “molestation”.

As so many “experts” have pointed out, there was no sexual gratification in a traditional sense. There was no semen found anywhere on or in her body, there was none found in the room, there was no penile or large object insertion. The only thing that occurred of a sexual nature was insertion of something “consistent with digital insertion” -- something that was inserted causing the acute injuries noted in the autopsy report. Whether or not this had occurred in the past is still being debated and will probably never be resolved with any certainty, but the acute injuries cannot be denied. It’s possible (and I give credence to it) that similar things had happened in the past. Perhaps this was an escalation of what had happened prior to that night. For now though, let’s go on and leave that debate for another time. The assault (and that is what it was) that happened associated with her death is fact that is documented in the AR. It was, I believe, the reason she was brought to the basement as far away from the others in the house as possible.

By the lack of damage to her neck internally (“Examination of the thyroid cartilage, cricoid cartilage and hyoid bone disclose no evidence of fracture or hemorrhage.&#8221, I would posit that the hanging did not occur from a high distance. Was she standing on something or simply standing in place? Either could be the case, but because of the lack of damage to her neck, I would think she was simply standing on the floor.

Once this was done, the molestation began. Some may reason that JonBenet had to have been a willing, docile, or at the least -- a passive participant in this, at least at the start. It could be argued that her “sexuallization” by Patsy may have contributed to that. But certainly at her age, no one could expect her to know just how vulnerable she was at that point or how much danger she was in because of the circumstances that had been set up. I won’t try to argue any of those points here, because I’m trying to look only at what the evidence tells us happened to cause her death.

So JonBenet is restrained with the cord tied around her wrists, and the continuous piece of cord goes from her left wrist over something above her head, and then is tied around her neck. The end of the artist’s paintbrush (unbroken) is inserted enough to cause injury and obviously _____ pain (ladies can add what ever adjective they feel appropriate in the space before the word “pain” -- sharp, extreme, terrible, intense, severe, tremendous). She screams. The scream may have been from the pain; it could have been from her looking down and seeing the blood. According to one account, Melody Stanton was awakened by “one loud, incredible scream”. She related that it was “obviously from a child” and that it lasted 3 to 5 seconds and then abruptly stopped. After the scream began -- panic. An object is picked up and she is struck over the head (“and then abruptly stopped&#8221. Exactly what the object was is debatable. Even the investigators who are privy to all of the evidence disagree. Was it a bat, a flashlight, or maybe even a fireplace log tool? I think it was a putter golf club turned to where the tip of the back end of it hit her head with the full weight and force concentrated in that one small area.

Regardless of what the object was, the blow to her head caused her to lose consciousness. Her head dropped and her body fell forward. The weight of her upper torso pulling on the cord raised her left arm and tightened the left wrist knot on itself. At the same time, the slipknot around her neck tightened and strangled the life out of her.

Everyone likes to ask and debate, which came first -- the head blow or the strangulation? Experts can’t agree. What they do agree on is that either one of the injuries alone could have caused her death. Technically, in this scenario, the head blow came first. But there would only be a second or so between the two injuries, so they effectively occurred simultaneously. This is the reason the autopsy findings are so inconclusive on the exact cause of death -- both injuries were killing her at the same time.

“CLINICOPATHLOGIC CORRELATION: Cause of death of this six year old female is asphyxia by strangulation associated with craniocerebral trauma.”

This is how the evidence says JonBenet died. There was no murder. There was no violent rape. There was no jealousy or rage involved in the head blow, only fear of being caught and a desire to stop the scream. There was never any kidnapping. There was no crime committed in her death -- just a terrible, tragic accident. Everything else is staging and cover-up. But that is where the crime was committed. The cover-up was a crime, but it will never be proven.

So now to explain the staging that is associated with the evidence that we know and that we have discussed here.

It should be obvious by now that I think that the sexual aspect of this was of a juvenile nature. It was a curiosity of sex that was being acted out on a person of convenience. It, and the cord tied around her neck, created a dangerous situation that was set up by someone who didn’t have the maturity to imagine the possible consequences of the things that were done. So I believe that when faced with a situation that might have required an immediate response, he didn’t know what to do. Did John and Patsy hear the scream and go running through the house to find where it came from and discover what happened, or did Burke wait until he felt he had to go wake them and tell them what had happened because they didn’t hear her scream? (We’ll never know the answer to that, but consider Patsy’s later statement: “Why didn’t I hear my baby?&#8221 But either way, when they did find JonBenet dead and hanging from the ceiling, John’s first reaction, as would any father’s reaction be, would be to cut the cord and get her down. Because of the weight of JonBenet on the cord, this would cause the cord to fray as it was cut. It would be obvious at this point that she was dead. Medical attention would be of no value. Even Patsy would have known that Jesus was not going to “raise her baby from the dead as He did Lazurus”.

So they were faced with the question of what to do. If they called the police, they would face everyone in the community knowing what had happened. I don’t imagine they knew that Burke was one-month shy of being able to be charged with any crime, so for all they knew, he might be charged with negligent homicide or wrongful death.

Now it’s time to do something. I believe they decided at this point to stage the entire thing to look like someone else was responsible. They also tried to completely remove any evidence of the sexual aspect, cleaning the blood from her body and changing any clothes that may have had any blood on them. The end of the paintbrush with blood and vaginal fluids was broken off so it would be small enough that it could be hidden, discarded, burned, or carried out in a pocket or anything else. Then the brush part was broken off to leave a wooden stick to tie the cord to, making it look like (in their minds anyway) a professional killing device. In the process of breaking it, small pieces of wood break off in shards and go unnoticed until found much later by BPD. The cord is tied to the middle piece so close to JonBenet’s hair that it gets caught in the knot.
[Sidenote: Ever wonder when she was found if the stick was tangled in her hair, if the hair had been pulled out by the root, or if it had been cut with scissors? Have you ever heard it said?]


Granted, there is a lot in the overall picture of what was found afterward that is still left unanswered. Did all of the staging and cover-up happen in the basement, or was she carried upstairs at some point between her death and her being laid out in the wine cellar? Was her body moved a second time before being “discovered” by John when he loosened and removed the knot on her left wrist? Was the broken brush end of Patsy’s paintbrush in the paint tote tested for fingerprints, and if it had none -- why not? Why was the flashlight and even the batteries in it wiped clean of fingerprints? How did the pineapple play into all this?

I’m sure you have your own questions, and we can debate them from now on, but the answers won’t change the evidence of how JonBenet. And if you consider the scenario I just laid out, doesn’t everything else in the behavior of all the people associated with this make sense? Does it not explain why Burke’s voice can be heard on the 911 call? Does it make sense now why Burke would stay in his room all morning long not coming down to ask what all the commotion was when they were supposed to be leaving for Michigan that morning? And when he was led through the house to leave for someone else’s home, why didn’t he even ask, “What are the police and all these people doing here? Did something happen?” Does it not explain some of the bizarre things that John and Patsy did and said after their child was killed, and why they would hire attorneys almost immediately to help them avoid being questioned by police? And how about John Andrew’s answer to what should be done to the person who killed his sister? -- “He should be forgiven.”

If you at least consider this, is there anything that doesn’t make sense?
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I'm sorry, I must have missed something, or not understood something.

In previous sections we've talked a lot about knots and ligature marks. It was my understanding that in hangings, the ligature mark will normally be asymmetrical. Are you saying the loop around her neck tightened prior to the body falling -such that it prevented the classic asymmetry? Or are you saying the body fell forward, but the feet were not dangling directly below the neck, as in a classic hanging - thus not all her weight was suspended from the neck.

The evidence suggests to me that her full body weight could not have been supported from the neck loop and still have produced the symmetrical "circumferential" mark.

I have other reservations, but I'll post them separately as they don't have to do with "evidence" but only my gut feeling.

 

[Chrishope]

I've always been resistant to BDI theories, and this is no exception.

For one thing, it seems unlikely to me that the parents would go to these lengths to cover up (I'm assuming both are in on the staging) to protect a 9 year old. If BDI, Burke was not going to prison. Psychiatric help would be required, but this is no more embarrassing than implicating one's self in a murder.

I can understand that some RDI theorists believe JR may have had motive to cover up to hide his own prior acts, but that doesn't explain PR getting involved.

Another reason I'm reluctant about BDI is that the theories -yours in particular- have Burke acting in ways that are bizarre for a 9 year old. I'd expect a 9 year old's sexual curiosity to be expressed by playing doctor, or post office. The idea that a 9 year old ties his sister to pipes in the basement is really bizarre. The more oddly Burke is made to act in a BDI theory, the less compelling I find the theory.

This all seems too perverted to be "child's play". This was, IMO, the work of an adult.

 

[MurriFlower]

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A quick refresher for anyone who might have missed how I got to the point I am at:
As you read what I am about to write, I ask you to put aside your beliefs about what happened. Forget about the things that happened afterward that make you think that “RDI”, or “IDI”. Forget about the things that you want to believe because you just can’t image that someone in a certain situation would do this, or not do that. Forget about what someone might or might not have said in an interview three of five years after the fact. And forget about any “expert’s” opinion, or what was printed in a newspaper article or tabloid journal (surely we know not to put much faith in any of that). Forget it all for now and look only at the evidence of what caused JonBenet’s death.

If you have followed my numbered posts so far, you know that I believe that the ligature evidence and the markings on her neck show that JonBenet was strangled by hanging -- not the staged “garrote”. There is just way too much that points away from the paintbrush being actually used in the way it is tied to the cord to think that it is not part of the staging that was done to hide what actually happened.

So even if you disagree with me on this, consider for a moment that when she died, if the paintbrush was not there, how could she have been hung? I would point out again the frayed ends of the cord that I talked about before. If the knot tied to the paintbrush was not there, what we have left is three somewhat similar knots (similar in their lack of complexity) tied somewhat randomly with no particular intent other than to hold them in place. Consider that before she was killed, the cord was one continuous piece in the way that it was used, and that it was eventually cut while under strain causing the fraying.

I think that this was the case, and that the scenario went something like this:

The right wrist was tied first, and then the left wrist. Neither of these two knots was tied tightly. They were put there simply to restrain, or at least add a feeling of restraint -- maybe even in a “playful” way. Then the longer end of the cord is put over one of the many pipes that run all over the basement and then tied around her neck with a slipknot so it can be tightened just enough to make JonBenet feel like she has to stay right there. It would not have been secured tightly around her neck; it would have some slack in it and lie loosely around her neck and rest at the base of her neck. There is no intent to kill or harm her in any way with the cord. This is all done simply to make her feel she can’t go running out of the room. This was all done to keep her there while the reason for doing it was carried out. That reason was the “molestation”.

As so many “experts” have pointed out, there was no sexual gratification in a traditional sense. There was no semen found anywhere on or in her body, there was none found in the room, there was no penile or large object insertion. The only thing that occurred of a sexual nature was insertion of something “consistent with digital insertion” -- something that was inserted causing the acute injuries noted in the autopsy report. Whether or not this had occurred in the past is still being debated and will probably never be resolved with any certainty, but the acute injuries cannot be denied. It’s possible (and I give credence to it) that similar things had happened in the past. Perhaps this was an escalation of what had happened prior to that night. For now though, let’s go on and leave that debate for another time. The assault (and that is what it was) that happened associated with her death is fact that is documented in the AR. It was, I believe, the reason she was brought to the basement as far away from the others in the house as possible.

By the lack of damage to her neck internally (“Examination of the thyroid cartilage, cricoid cartilage and hyoid bone disclose no evidence of fracture or hemorrhage.”), I would posit that the hanging did not occur from a high distance. Was she standing on something or simply standing in place? Either could be the case, but because of the lack of damage to her neck, I would think she was simply standing on the floor.

Once this was done, the molestation began. Some may reason that JonBenet had to have been a willing, docile, or at the least -- a passive participant in this, at least at the start. It could be argued that her “sexuallization” by Patsy may have contributed to that. But certainly at her age, no one could expect her to know just how vulnerable she was at that point or how much danger she was in because of the circumstances that had been set up. I won’t try to argue any of those points here, because I’m trying to look only at what the evidence tells us happened to cause her death.

So JonBenet is restrained with the cord tied around her wrists, and the continuous piece of cord goes from her left wrist over something above her head, and then is tied around her neck. The end of the artist’s paintbrush (unbroken) is inserted enough to cause injury and obviously _____ pain (ladies can add what ever adjective they feel appropriate in the space before the word “pain” -- sharp, extreme, terrible, intense, severe, tremendous). She screams. The scream may have been from the pain; it could have been from her looking down and seeing the blood. According to one account, Melody Stanton was awakened by “one loud, incredible scream”. She related that it was “obviously from a child” and that it lasted 3 to 5 seconds and then abruptly stopped. After the scream began -- panic. An object is picked up and she is struck over the head (“and then abruptly stopped”). Exactly what the object was is debatable. Even the investigators who are privy to all of the evidence disagree. Was it a bat, a flashlight, or maybe even a fireplace log tool? I think it was a putter golf club turned to where the tip of the back end of it hit her head with the full weight and force concentrated in that one small area.

Regardless of what the object was, the blow to her head caused her to lose consciousness. Her head dropped and her body fell forward. The weight of her upper torso pulling on the cord raised her left arm and tightened the left wrist knot on itself. At the same time, the slipknot around her neck tightened and strangled the life out of her.

Everyone likes to ask and debate, which came first -- the head blow or the strangulation? Experts can’t agree. What they do agree on is that either one of the injuries alone could have caused her death. Technically, in this scenario, the head blow came first. But there would only be a second or so between the two injuries, so they effectively occurred simultaneously. This is the reason the autopsy findings are so inconclusive on the exact cause of death -- both injuries were killing her at the same time.

“CLINICOPATHLOGIC CORRELATION: Cause of death of this six year old female is asphyxia by strangulation associated with craniocerebral trauma.”

This is how the evidence says JonBenet died. There was no murder. There was no violent rape. There was no jealousy or rage involved in the head blow, only fear of being caught and a desire to stop the scream. There was never any kidnapping. There was no crime committed in her death -- just a terrible, tragic accident. Everything else is staging and cover-up. But that is where the crime was committed. The cover-up was a crime, but it will never be proven.

So now to explain the staging that is associated with the evidence that we know and that we have discussed here.

It should be obvious by now that I think that the sexual aspect of this was of a juvenile nature. It was a curiosity of sex that was being acted out on a person of convenience. It, and the cord tied around her neck, created a dangerous situation that was set up by someone who didn’t have the maturity to imagine the possible consequences of the things that were done. So I believe that when faced with a situation that might have required an immediate response, he didn’t know what to do. Did John and Patsy hear the scream and go running through the house to find where it came from and discover what happened, or did Burke wait until he felt he had to go wake them and tell them what had happened because they didn’t hear her scream? (We’ll never know the answer to that, but consider Patsy’s later statement: “Why didn’t I hear my baby?”) But either way, when they did find JonBenet dead and hanging from the ceiling, John’s first reaction, as would any father’s reaction be, would be to cut the cord and get her down. Because of the weight of JonBenet on the cord, this would cause the cord to fray as it was cut. It would be obvious at this point that she was dead. Medical attention would be of no value. Even Patsy would have known that Jesus was not going to “raise her baby from the dead as He did Lazurus”.

So they were faced with the question of what to do. If they called the police, they would face everyone in the community knowing what had happened. I don’t imagine they knew that Burke was one-month shy of being able to be charged with any crime, so for all they knew, he might be charged with negligent homicide or wrongful death.

Now it’s time to do something. I believe they decided at this point to stage the entire thing to look like someone else was responsible. They also tried to completely remove any evidence of the sexual aspect, cleaning the blood from her body and changing any clothes that may have had any blood on them. The end of the paintbrush with blood and vaginal fluids was broken off so it would be small enough that it could be hidden, discarded, burned, or carried out in a pocket or anything else. Then the brush part was broken off to leave a wooden stick to tie the cord to, making it look like (in their minds anyway) a professional killing device. In the process of breaking it, small pieces of wood break off in shards and go unnoticed until found much later by BPD. The cord is tied to the middle piece so close to JonBenet’s hair that it gets caught in the knot.
[Sidenote: Ever wonder when she was found if the stick was tangled in her hair, if the hair had been pulled out by the root, or if it had been cut with scissors? Have you ever heard it said?]


Granted, there is a lot in the overall picture of what was found afterward that is still left unanswered. Did all of the staging and cover-up happen in the basement, or was she carried upstairs at some point between her death and her being laid out in the wine cellar? Was her body moved a second time before being “discovered” by John when he loosened and removed the knot on her left wrist? Was the broken brush end of Patsy’s paintbrush in the paint tote tested for fingerprints, and if it had none -- why not? Why was the flashlight and even the batteries in it wiped clean of fingerprints? How did the pineapple play into all this?

I’m sure you have your own questions, and we can debate them from now on, but the answers won’t change the evidence of how JonBenet. And if you consider the scenario I just laid out, doesn’t everything else in the behavior of all the people associated with this make sense? Does it not explain why Burke’s voice can be heard on the 911 call? Does it make sense now why Burke would stay in his room all morning long not coming down to ask what all the commotion was when they were supposed to be leaving for Michigan that morning? And when he was led through the house to leave for someone else’s home, why didn’t he even ask, “What are the police and all these people doing here? Did something happen?” Does it not explain some of the bizarre things that John and Patsy did and said after their child was killed, and why they would hire attorneys almost immediately to help them avoid being questioned by police? And how about John Andrew’s answer to what should be done to the person who killed his sister? -- “He should be forgiven.”

If you at least consider this, is there anything that doesn’t make sense?
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You were making sense, until this, you started off so well too. It's totally unbelievable, so please don't ever criticise my IDI theories again as unlikely!!

 

[DeeDee249]

I believe the head bash followed her scream, for sure. But the ligature furrow marks do not indicate she was hung or suspended in any way.

As for her hair being wrapped around the stick and cord- at the autopsy, Mayer reported having to cut JB's hair in order to separate the garrote completely from her as it was tangled up in the cord, so I don't believe her hair was pulled out by the perp(s).
Mayer also reported cutting the cord in various places in order to remove it- and he marked the places where he had made the cut with magic marker. This is pretty standard- the knots should not be untied by the coroner because the way in which they are tied is considered evidence as well, not to mention any forensic evidence that may be in the knot or on the cord. In JB's case, there is ongoing debate about the knots and whether they are simple knots anyone would tie or something more complex. At least two people in the house knew about knots- JR because he was in the Navy and also because he owned boats. BR because he was a scout, and I belive he also sailed. I don't know whether Patsy or JAR knew about knots, but I'd bet they did.

As for BR's behavior that morning, eventually JR did admit that BR was awake that morning and BR also admitted it, saying he heard a lot of loud talking and running around but stayed in his room pretending to be asleep. Whether this is true or not can't be known, but I do believe he did come down to the kitchen at the time of the 911 call, and was told by his parents to go back to his room and stay there until someone came to get him. And I think that is what he did. There was no need for BR to ask about why they weren't going on their trip that morning because by the time he was taken from his room to go to the White's (really, to get him OUT of the house and away from LE) he already KNEW something BAD had happened to his sister. Removing him from the house not only prevented LE from asking him if he may have seen or heard anything unusual (he DID- the loud talking, running about and who knows what else) and also prevented any of the R "guests" that morning from asking him anything as well.

 

[otg]

I'm sorry, I must have missed something, or not understood something.

In previous sections we've talked a lot about knots and ligature marks. It was my understanding that in hangings, the ligature mark will normally be asymmetrical. Are you saying the loop around her neck tightened prior to the body falling -such that it prevented the classic asymmetry? Or are you saying the body fell forward, but the feet were not dangling directly below the neck, as in a classic hanging - thus not all her weight was suspended from the neck.

The evidence suggests to me that her full body weight could not have been supported from the neck loop and still have produced the symmetrical "circumferential" mark.

I have other reservations, but I'll post them separately as they don't have to do with "evidence" but only my gut feeling.

Chrishope, thank you for expressing your doubts. I've been looking forward to convincing you.

See [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5771888&postcount=186"]Post - 5[/ame] (and the discussion posts around it) for the discussion about the markings on her neck. I believe the blanched area in the photo was where the hanging caused her strangulation. I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear enough in this post that where the furrow became evident was part of the staging. I believe the location of the cord around her neck was moved from it's location when it strangled her. I can't tell you why it was moved (it's too speculative and not based on any evidence), but I suspect it was because it was a natural parental response to want to remove or loosen the cord when she was found. When it was placed back, it was placed in another location, the postmortem swelling began, and the furrow was formed.
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