Could ICA walk??

[Ricki]

I have been here since this case started but joined WS last April I don't post much-mostly just read and observe. Every once in a while I post. Thank you for the welcome

 

[chefmom]

We may convict out here but we rarely actually carry out the death sentence.

And let us not forget. We did let a man who committed double homicide walk free and go golf for years and years before he was finally committed of another crime in a different state in which he was convicted.

Then we should send her to Texas! I hear tell they put DR inmates in the express lane! :great:

 

[mac66]

She WILL walk-The Long Green Mile. Actually I don't think she will get the death penalty, but I am okay with life without any chance of parole. Killing her will make a martyr of her. The crazies and anti-death penalty people will hold candle light vigils. She would love it. Justice will be served, and, yes, it sucks to be her.

 

[charok]

bring her to OK...we still DO execute our death row prisioners..maybe not as much/frequently as our neighbors in TX, but we still do it...but isn't FL a "active" state that executes prisioners too?(ted bundy,eileen wurnos(sp) come to my mind...)

 

[LCoastMom]

I got a rude awaking this weekend - an animal abuse case from 2009 - A Pit Pup doused with lighter fluid and set on fire - burned on 99% of his body and died a week later. The perps were acquitted! I realize there were problems with the case as it was not treated as a crime scene but they had video and a positive ID!

ONE HOLD OUT! 11 to 1.

One of the brothers is currently jailed on attempted murder in another case!

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2011/02/thug_twins_travers_and_tremayn.php

At two minutes before noon, the video shows the two youths and another man running from the direction of the alley. One hangs a left. The two others -- later identified as twin brothers Travers and Tremayne Jackson by Baltimore Police Sergeant Jarron Jackson, who has known the two for a decade -- scamper to the right.

Another juror who asked to remain anonymous told the paper: "We were really looking at the video. Eleven out of twelve of us believed that beyond a reasonable doubt that it was the two defendants with the dog."

After the mistrial was declared on Monday, the Johnson twins left the courtroom grinning and slapping their friends and family high fives.

 

[Baznme]

I don't know where to put this but in light of the latest news regarding evidence let in or not for this trial, what does this mean? (mods, if you need to move it, please do so).

http://www.wesh.com/r/27508053/detail.html

And......what's up with Conway? Is he doing a reverse on his beliefs on this case?

 

[logicalgirl]

I don't know where to put this but in light of the latest news regarding evidence let in or not for this trial, what does this mean? (mods, if you need to move it, please do so).

http://www.wesh.com/r/27508053/detail.html

And......what's up with Conway? Is he doing a reverse on his beliefs on this case?

Thanks for posting it Baznme - but I really wonder about Conway - if this passes Frye there is no way it will be an appellate issue - I find him so annoying when he talks about things he clearly doesn't know anything about!:banghead:

 

[Tulessa]

I don't know where to put this but in light of the latest news regarding evidence let in or not for this trial, what does this mean? (mods, if you need to move it, please do so).

http://www.wesh.com/r/27508053/detail.html

And......what's up with Conway? Is he doing a reverse on his beliefs on this case?

Wow! Just wow!! I have enough faith in HHJP's knowledge of the law to rest comfortably, knowing he is crossing every t, and dotting every I. :great:

 

[Baznme]

Thanks for posting it Baznme - but I really wonder about Conway - if this passes Frye there is no way it will be an appellate issue - I find him so annoying when he talks about things he clearly doesn't know anything about!:banghead:

I kind of have a difficult time understanding the legal terms. For me, it's worse than Math. I was getting worried for a minute but your post has put me at ease. Don't know why, but it does.

 

[logicalgirl]

Well here is Bill Scheaffer's opinion about whether or not ICA will walk:

I love it!!!:great:

What Would It Take For Casey To Get Acquitted?

http://www.wftv.com/news/27507863/detail.html

BILL SHEAFFER: Analysis Of 4 Defense Strategies
http://www.wftv.com/video/27506963/index.html

Enjoy!

 

[NoNameLeft]

Thanks for posting it Baznme - but I really wonder about Conway - if this passes Frye there is no way it will be an appellate issue - I find him so annoying when he talks about things he clearly doesn't know anything about!:banghead:

This is how I understand it (lawyers, please correct me if I'm wrong ):

If Judge Perry decides the hair and/or air tests are allowed, and Casey is convicted, it can become an appellate issue. In cases where the death penalty is imposed, there is an automatic appeal. And because this will be the first time that evidence like this is introduced in Florida (hair) or nation wide (air), the Florida Supreme Court has to review this issue and uphold Judge Perry's ruling.

But, even if the Supreme Court says the evidence should not have passed the Frye test, it doesn't automatically mean that the conviction is overturned. If they find the other evidence presented was sufficient - in other words, the jury would have found Casey guilty without having heard anything about the hair or air tests - it won't change the outcome of this case. All that would be reversed is the Frye ruling.

 

[logicalgirl]

This is how I understand it (lawyers, please correct me if I'm wrong ):

If Judge Perry decides the hair and/or air tests are allowed, and Casey is convicted, it can become an appellate issue. In cases where the death penalty is imposed, there is an automatic appeal. And because this will be the first time that evidence like this is introduced in Florida (hair) or nation wide (air), the Florida Supreme Court has to review this issue and uphold Judge Perry's ruling.

But, even if the Supreme Court says the evidence should not have passed the Frye test, it doesn't automatically mean that the conviction is overturned. If they find the other evidence presented was sufficient - in other words, the jury would have found Casey guilty without having heard anything about the hair or air tests - it won't change the outcome of this case. All that would be reversed is the Frye ruling.

My understanding of Frye is that the Methodology has to pass the 4 points in Frye to be accepted. Even Baez seemed to be confused about this and certainly D.Simms did as she kept arguing evidence.

My understanding is that if the trunk air, sample of carpet etc. pass Frye, they are then argued as evidence in court. Just because they pass Frye methodology does not mean this evidence is written in stone and accepted as such by the jury. To me this means it will still be argued.....?

Or I am again completely up the creek with one paddle again. Going back again to read Frye......:sigh: and AZ....didn't RHornsby do a blog on to Frye or not to frye...hmm

 

[Baznme]

This is how I understand it (lawyers, please correct me if I'm wrong ):

If Judge Perry decides the hair and/or air tests are allowed, and Casey is convicted, it can become an appellate issue. In cases where the death penalty is imposed, there is an automatic appeal. And because this will be the first time that evidence like this is introduced in Florida (hair) or nation wide (air), the Florida Supreme Court has to review this issue and uphold Judge Perry's ruling.

But, even if the Supreme Court says the evidence should not have passed the Frye test, it doesn't automatically mean that the conviction is overturned. If they find the other evidence presented was sufficient - in other words, the jury would have found Casey guilty without having heard anything about the hair or air tests - it won't change the outcome of this case. All that would be reversed is the Frye ruling.

When it comes right down to it, it would be nice if they had the air and the hair in for evidence, but even without it, I think there's enough other evidence to convict her. I do believe that.

 

[NoNameLeft]

My understanding of Frye is that the Methodology has to pass the 4 points in Frye to be accepted. Even Baez seemed to be confused about this and certainly D.Simms did as she kept arguing evidence.

My understanding is that if the trunk air, sample of carpet etc. pass Frye, they are then argued as evidence in court. Just because they pass Frye methodology does not mean this evidence is written in stone and accepted as such by the jury. To me this means it will still be argued.....?

Or I am again completely up the creek with one paddle again. Going back again to read Frye......:sigh: and AZ....didn't RHornsby do a blog on to Frye or not to frye...hmm

Yep logicalgirl, that is how I understand it as well. If Judge Perry allows it, the State can present it to the jury and the defense will argue that it's unreliable (because Dr. Vass isn't a chemist or something like that :crazy: ). My reply was a response to the part about the appeal. I think Brad Conway was right about that.

And @ Baznme: I think the State's case can survive the loss of the air test, since there are many people who thought the car smelled like death. Still, I hope the Judge allows it, I would love to hear Dr. Vass testifying at trial.

 

[MaryAnn]

I got a rude awaking this weekend - an animal abuse case from 2009 - A Pit Pup doused with lighter fluid and set on fire - burned on 99% of his body and died a week later. The perps were acquitted! I realize there were problems with the case as it was not treated as a crime scene but they had video and a positive ID!

ONE HOLD OUT! 11 to 1.

One of the brothers is currently jailed on attempted murder in another case!

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2011/02/thug_twins_travers_and_tremayn.php

At two minutes before noon, the video shows the two youths and another man running from the direction of the alley. One hangs a left. The two others -- later identified as twin brothers Travers and Tremayne Jackson by Baltimore Police Sergeant Jarron Jackson, who has known the two for a decade -- scamper to the right.

Another juror who asked to remain anonymous told the paper: "We were really looking at the video. Eleven out of twelve of us believed that beyond a reasonable doubt that it was the two defendants with the dog."

After the mistrial was declared on Monday, the Johnson twins left the courtroom grinning and slapping their friends and family high fives.

This is a rude awakening. Breaks my heart. I'm a huge animal lover. I'd like to set them on fire. It was only a puppy too!! Why is life so cruel? I guess if this can happen in this case it can happen in any case. They even had video. What was wrong with that juror? :maddening:

 

[logicalgirl]

I got a rude awaking this weekend - an animal abuse case from 2009 - A Pit Pup doused with lighter fluid and set on fire - burned on 99% of his body and died a week later. The perps were acquitted! I realize there were problems with the case as it was not treated as a crime scene but they had video and a positive ID!

ONE HOLD OUT! 11 to 1.

One of the brothers is currently jailed on attempted murder in another case!

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2011/02/thug_twins_travers_and_tremayn.php

At two minutes before noon, the video shows the two youths and another man running from the direction of the alley. One hangs a left. The two others -- later identified as twin brothers Travers and Tremayne Jackson by Baltimore Police Sergeant Jarron Jackson, who has known the two for a decade -- scamper to the right.

Another juror who asked to remain anonymous told the paper: "We were really looking at the video. Eleven out of twelve of us believed that beyond a reasonable doubt that it was the two defendants with the dog."

After the mistrial was declared on Monday, the Johnson twins left the courtroom grinning and slapping their friends and family high fives.

I feel your pain LCoastMom, because I live in the area of the sled dog slaughter scandal, which is almost too ugly to even think about.

Our problem is not with the evidence provided, but what is written into our animal protection laws. Even though we want the perp done some serious damage, there is only so much they can do - perhaps a fine and maybe 6 months of time- because we need a rewrite. And we will get it.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I'm a bit worried only because of the unpredictability of life in general. Anything could happen. I really don't see her getting off and if she did, I don't know what her life would be after alking out of the courtroom arm in arm with her *unusual* lawyers.

One thing is that the jury will probably be going into this fairly uninformed about the case if I understand things correctly. They'll get certain info in a specific way and they may not have months to digest it all. This is an extremely simple case that has been made complex, with hundreds of witnesses and scientific evidence. I could see jurors being stymied by all the hoopla. Just keep in mind it will be different for the jurors in a lot of ways than it is for us, unfortunately imo.

 

[logicalgirl]

Thanks for posting it Baznme - but I really wonder about Conway - if this passes Frye there is no way it will be an appellate issue - I find him so annoying when he talks about things he clearly doesn't know anything about!:banghead:

Okay so - so far AZ has said that the Frye issues may be raised as appellate issues, but the only automatic thing about it is the issues may be obvious to the DT.
My only question at this point would be what defense team...jk

So I have asked if does Frye automatically get knocked down if it passes the four pillars and asking for a response....:rocker: cause I am certain the appellate judges would be considering the methodology for accepting the evidence in the first place.

 

[NoNameLeft]

Okay so - so far AZ has said that the Frye issues may be raised as appellate issues, but the only automatic thing about it is the issues may be obvious to the DT.
My only question at this point would be what defense team...jk

So I have asked if does Frye automatically get knocked down if it passes the four pillars and asking for a response....:rocker: cause I am certain the appellate judges would be considering the methodology for accepting the evidence in the first place.

I think we misunderstood each other, logicalgirl :waitasec:

I wasn't saying this Frye issue guaranteed an automatic appeal, but if someone is sentenced to death, the Florida Supreme Court will automatically review the case. And the Frye motions are most likely issues that the Court will look at.

I certainly did not want to imply that the Supreme Court will automatically overrule Judge Perry's order on the hair or air test. But let's say they do, that still doesn't mean they will overturn the conviction.

So hopefully my post didn't stress you out, because I really didn't mean to do that