Crime Scene Animation by Websleuths Member grayhuze

I am on to another topic now. Thanks for you insight.

LinTX asked "How does the bullet go out of something you say it never entered?", and I'm surprised that you're not interested in answering.

Animations can be a great resource for helping people to fine-tune their theories and get closer to the truth. However, if the premises appear to be false, or nonsensical, then this isn't achieved. With this in mind, it's surprising that you would decline to answer a basic question regarding premises.
 
Whenever I need a good laugh I watch your You Tube video of the couple reading JA's letter regarding JVM's book! It is hilarious!! Well done.
 
LinTX asked "How does the bullet go out of something you say it never entered?", and I'm surprised that you're not interested in answering.

Animations can be a great resource for helping people to fine-tune their theories and get closer to the truth. However, if the premises appear to be false, or nonsensical, then this isn't achieved. With this in mind, it's surprising that you would decline to answer a basic question regarding premises.

what is more surprising is that I would like to move on to other aspects of the case. I can stipulate that the bullet passed through the dura mater and perhaps part of the brain, but the gunshot was first and travis was not immediately incapacitated. I am surprised that you never answer my question when I asked. "Do you believe that Kevin Horn truly never remembered ever speaking to Flores about the case. A case that is the most important and biggest case he has ever worked on. Do you believe that Flores is "mistaken" when he says three times he had conversations with Horn where he was told that travis would not have been immediately incapacitated and that the gunshot was first? Do you believe that if Flores had inadvertantly said "we believe the gunshot was first" as he did in the 48 hour special, that the prosecution wouldn't have put out a clarification immediately upon such a huge mistake? Who was the "we" he was referring to? Can you answer any of those questions without making excuses that would not be acceptable for defense witnesses?
 
well you have been acting like it.

Again, my interest is in looking at evidence finding truth in that evidence. Just because someone questions an inaccuracy in your data does not mean they are out to get you, and just because someone offers additional information to another poster, it does not mean that they are stealing attention from you. Evidence should be factual, and it is not a competition.
 
Very impressive animation and scripting! Is it Revit with Maya or Max, or built directly in Maya/Max?

I hope you find, or have, work in Criminal Investigations somewhere, as that sort of animation is needed in courtrooms during trial (even though the Amanda Knox supporters labels this sort of animation: "cartooning".

well, I did just have my first paid case. I am really only and expert animator so I make what the client wants but in this case I was the one who spoke with the victim and got her version and then got supporting information and then recreated what happened to her and she said that is exactly how it went as well as the first doctor on the scene who I also spoke with. So, I actually made it myself by speaking to witnesses not just someone's theory. I used 3d studio max and Poser pro and a host of other programs. No scripting. I use a motion capture system.
 
Well thank you for taking the time to make it, I laugh every time I watch it!
sounds like Mrs. Doubtfire. That is my voice that I applied pitch adjustment too but read it dramatically like how I pictured jodi's mind working. Audacity is a great, free, audio editing software program. i just purchased http://www.bluemic.com/, which are sweet.
 
what is more surprising is that I would like to move on to other aspects of the case. I can stipulate that the bullet passed through the dura mater and perhaps part of the brain, but the gunshot was first and travis was not immediately incapacitated. I am surprised that you never answer my question when I asked. "Do you believe that Kevin Horn truly never remembered ever speaking to Flores about the case. A case that is the most important and biggest case he has ever worked on. Do you believe that Flores is "mistaken" when he says three times he had conversations with Horn where he was told that travis would not have been immediately incapacitated and that the gunshot was first? Do you believe that if Flores had inadvertantly said "we believe the gunshot was first" as he did in the 48 hour special, that the prosecution wouldn't have put out a clarification immediately upon such a huge mistake? Who was the "we" he was referring to? Can you answer any of those questions without making excuses that would not be acceptable for defense witnesses?

You clearly believe that there is something nefarious going on, when there isn't. I'm not sure why you choose to believe this, because there's no evidence that this is the case - only opinion. Nor is there any reason why it would be the case. It would serve the prosecution equally well to say that he was shot first, still capable of meaningful movement, and then stabbed and slashed at the throat.

It's also unrealistic to suppose that theories about how crimes occur remain static, from day one. As anyone in law enforcement will tell you, they most certainly don't.

As for Flores statements, in the early days of this particular case, the focus was simply on establishing cruelty - equally achieved whatever the actual sequence. He simply stated what he personally believed at that time to be correct. Again (as he said) the actual sequence was not important at that time.

In preparing for trial, however, facts and evidence necessarily fall under closer scrutiny, including the expert opinion of the actual medical examiner, who has no reason whatsover to lie. And if Dr. Horn says he didn't speak to Flores about it, then yes, I believe Dr. Horn. Nor is there any reason to doubt his conclusions about the sequencing and the incapacitating effect of the gunshot wound to the head. It's an expert opinion, based on what's known - by experts - to happen when a bullet enters and stops where it did. And indeed, defense's failure to bring a rebuttal medical examiner to the stand speaks in support of his conclusions.

As for the peripheries, whatever was said in a 2008 TV show, by someone not qualified to speak on medical matters, etc., but thought at that time to be the case - is irrelevant and not evidence. And quite frankly, it's ludicrous to suggest that Police Depts should monitor and counter TV entertainment shows about their cases.

From the public's perspective, TV crime shows often illustrate what I said earlier - how theories of crimes evolve over time as cases progress, evidence is examined more closely and new information comes to light, etc.
 
You clearly believe that there is something nefarious going on, when there isn't. I'm not sure why you choose to believe this, because there's no evidence that this is the case - only opinion. Nor is there any reason why it would be the case. It would serve the prosecution equally well to say that he was shot first, still capable of meaningful movement, and then stabbed and slashed at the throat.

It's also unrealistic to suppose that theories about how crimes occur remain static, from day one. As anyone in law enforcement will tell you, they most certainly don't.

As for Flores statements, in the early days of this particular case, the focus was simply on establishing cruelty - equally achieved whatever the actual sequence. He simply stated what he personally believed at that time to be correct. Again (as he said) the actual sequence was not important at that time.

In preparing for trial, however, facts and evidence necessarily fall under closer scrutiny, including the expert opinion of the actual medical examiner, who has no reason whatsover to lie. And if Dr. Horn says he didn't speak to Flores about it, then yes, I believe Dr. Horn. Nor is there any reason to doubt his conclusions about the sequencing and the incapacitating effect of the gunshot wound to the head. It's an expert opinion, based on what's known - by experts - to happen when a bullet enters and stops where it did. And indeed, defense's failure to bring a rebuttal medical examiner to the stand speaks in support of his conclusions.

As for the peripheries, whatever was said in a 2008 TV show, by someone not qualified to speak on medical matters, etc., but thought at that time to be the case - is irrelevant and not evidence. And quite frankly, it's ludicrous to suggest that Police Depts should monitor and counter TV entertainment shows about their cases.

From the public's perspective, TV crime shows often illustrate what I said earlier - how theories of crimes evolve over time as cases progress, evidence is examined more closely and new information comes to light, etc.

wow, would you gave the same responses if Geffner said the same thing? I really can't understand answers like you just gave. So you are saying that flores never spoke to Flores. That just isn't true. he only states that he can't remember ever speaking to him, which is convenient and can't be proven. Flores is positive that he spoke with horn 3 times at least regarding incapacitation and gun first sequencing. I find that unbelievable that he was mistaken and horn just doesn't remember. Yes, this is one time in this case where I think they are full of crap. The defense witnesses were full of crap a hell of a lot more, but in this situation there comments are not credible. I cans say for sure that if the same comments were made by Arias' experts the "unbiased" critics would absolutely destroy them. No doubt in my mind.
 
As for the peripheries, whatever was said in a 2008 TV show, by someone not qualified to speak on medical matters, etc., but thought at that time to be the case - is irrelevant and not evidence. And quite frankly, it's ludicrous to suggest that Police Depts should monitor and counter TV entertainment shows about their cases.
Flores said "we believe the gunshot was first" and was already working with Horn and Martinez. You don't think Martinez saw the special? He used it at trial. It's ludicrous to say that martinez wasn't aware of what was said on the special...wow. You are aware that Flores was a guest on that special right? are you saying he isn't qualified to discuss sequencing? That's what detectives do, they figure out what happened. smh
 
I hope I haven't ruffled anyone's feathers with anything I've said or pics posted, I just have an incessant need for the truth in this matter. Gray - my comment about courtesy wasn't aimed at you or any debate you have with anyone else, I thought the mention of that in your post to me was meant towards me, sorry for any misunderstanding.
 
Geevee, I personally can't make out what you see, but this is what I see. I'll go ahead and quote a post made by another WS member (on a 2013 thread) for reference.

I'm sorry Seven, I didn't see this post earlier, didn't mean to ignore it. I've always had a difficult time seeing the blot under his shoulder as a foot, for all the light obliterating that side of the room in the pic it just seems it wouldn't be nearly as dark. I know, I know, I see a bare foot few others do and don't see the two feet most others agree are there. lol I think once the trial is over and we get to see digital images of all the pictures we'll be able to determine much more of their content, maybe I'll see everything JM and everyone else sees, or more will see the things I see, guess we'll all see when that comes to pass.
 
wow, would you gave the same responses if Geffner said the same thing? I really can't understand answers like you just gave. So you are saying that flores never spoke to Flores. That just isn't true. he only states that he can't remember ever speaking to him, which is convenient and can't be proven. Flores is positive that he spoke with horn 3 times at least regarding incapacitation and gun first sequencing. I find that unbelievable that he was mistaken and horn just doesn't remember. Yes, this is one time in this case where I think they are full of crap. The defense witnesses were full of crap a hell of a lot more, but in this situation there comments are not credible. I cans say for sure that if the same comments were made by Arias' experts the "unbiased" critics would absolutely destroy them. No doubt in my mind.

Yes, I would give the same responses if Geffner said the same thing - if the situation was the same.

Bottom line is, Dr. Horn says he doesn't recall saying that to Flores, Flores thought he did and/or misinterpreted things, and neither has any reason to lie - nothing to gain from it. Why? Because the sequence did not make a material difference to establishing (a) cruelty or (b) premeditation.

So, if Geffner also had no reason to lie, and nothing to gain from it, there'd be no reason at all to be up in arms about it. Unless of course, I was an irrational conspiracy theorist.
 
Flores said "we believe the gunshot was first" and was already working with Horn and Martinez. You don't think Martinez saw the special? He used it at trial. It's ludicrous to say that martinez wasn't aware of what was said on the special...wow. You are aware that Flores was a guest on that special right? are you saying he isn't qualified to discuss sequencing? That's what detectives do, they figure out what happened. smh

I didn't say Martinez didn't see the 48 hours show, or what Flores said on it - that's an assumption on your part. So, no need for the "wow".

That show was back in 2008, at which time - as I have already said, and as Flores said - sequencing was not important. Therefore, not under particular scrutiny. Nor, ultimately, was it important at any stage, because cruelty and premeditation could still be proved (easily) whatever the sequence.

Yes, detectives figure out what happened - in conjunction with expert opinions provided by forensic, medical and other experts. And, as this information flows in, theories evolve and change.

That's perfectly normal.

Why you think it's sinister, is perplexing, to say the least.
 
I'm sorry Seven, I didn't see this post earlier, didn't mean to ignore it. I've always had a difficult time seeing the blot under his shoulder as a foot, for all the light obliterating that side of the room in the pic it just seems it wouldn't be nearly as dark. I know, I know, I see a bare foot few others do and don't see the two feet most others agree are there. lol I think once the trial is over and we get to see digital images of all the pictures we'll be able to determine much more of their content, maybe I'll see everything JM and everyone else sees, or more will see the things I see, guess we'll all see when that comes to pass.

My instinct is to try and spend hours trying to get you to see something that is so clear to everyone else hence the vidoes and other images posted. If you can't see it after that, then I don't know how else to help. My feeling is one of frustration but that is my problem.
 
Yes, I would give the same responses if Geffner said the same thing - if the situation was the same.

Bottom line is, Dr. Horn says he doesn't recall saying that to Flores, Flores thought he did and/or misinterpreted things, and neither has any reason to lie - nothing to gain from it. Why? Because the sequence did not make a material difference to establishing (a) cruelty or (b) premeditation.

So, if Geffner also had no reason to lie, and nothing to gain from it, there'd be no reason at all to be up in arms about it. Unless of course, I was an irrational conspiracy theorist.

Well you are wrong. There is a reason. Horn says he doesn't remember and Flores has to say he was mistaken on three different occassions. You can see the internal struggle he had with the quote "I wasn't inaccurate, I was mistaken" They had to do this to change the sequencing and maintain Horn's credibility. Eventually he had to accept it and bite the bullet. Not remembering doesn't mean, btw, that Horn didn't say that. How does Flores Know he was mistaken if Horn doesn't remember?

I think it's incredibly naive to believe those statements.
 
Well you are wrong. There is a reason. Horn says he doesn't remember and Flores has to say he was mistaken on three different occassions. You can see the internal struggle he had with the quote "I wasn't inaccurate, I was mistaken" They had to do this to change the sequencing and maintain Horn's credibility. Eventually he had to accept it and bite the bullet. Not remembering doesn't mean, btw, that Horn didn't say that. How does Flores Know he was mistaken if Horn doesn't remember?

I think it's incredibly naive to believe those statements.

So, just to be clear, you're accusing Det. Flores and Dr. Horn of conspiring against CMJA and committing perjury?
 
I didn't say Martinez didn't see the 48 hours show, or what Flores said on it - that's an assumption on your part. So, no need for the "wow".

That show was back in 2008, at which time - as I have already said, and as Flores said - sequencing was not important. Therefore, not under particular scrutiny. Nor, ultimately, was it important at any stage, because cruelty and premeditation could still be proved (easily) whatever the sequence.

Yes, detectives figure out what happened - in conjunction with expert opinions provided by forensic, medical and other experts. And, as this information flows in, theories evolve and change.

That's perfectly normal.

Why you think it's sinister, is perplexing, to say the least.
why don't you? I think it's clear that the prosecution changed the sequencing after Jodi went with self defense and needed horn to not remember and Flores to bit the bullet and say he was mistaken.
 

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