Crime Scene Animation by Websleuths Member grayhuze

[cindymac]

Well you are wrong. There is a reason. Horn says he doesn't remember and Flores has to say he was mistaken on three different occassions. You can see the internal struggle he had with the quote "I wasn't inaccurate, I was mistaken" They had to do this to change the sequencing and maintain Horn's credibility. Eventually he had to accept it and bite the bullet. Not remembering doesn't mean, btw, that Horn didn't say that. How does Flores Know he was mistaken if Horn doesn't remember?

I think it's incredibly naive to believe those statements.

Your "reason" is simply an explanation of why you think there's something fishy going on.

But there's NO reason why they would lie.

As I've just explained, there's nothing to be gained. Dr. Horn's credibility didn't need maintaining, and certainly not by Det Flores. He's the Medical Examiner - on medical matters, his opinion trumps everyone else.

And so what if Flores had to say he was mistaken? If he was mistaken, that's what he would say, isn't it?

 

[grayhuze]

So, just to be clear, you're accusing Det. Flores and Dr. Horn of conspiring against CMJA and committing perjury?

well, it can't be proven because you can't prove someone can't remember and you can't prove that Flores now thinks he was mistaken. I find it incredible that you
all believe what they are saying. But I know why.

 

[grayhuze]

Your "reason" is simply an explanation of why you think there's something fishy going on.

But there's NO reason why they would lie.

As I've just explained, there's nothing to be gained. Dr. Horn's credibility didn't need maintaining, and certainly not by Det Flores. He's the Medical Examiner - on medical matters, his opinion trumps everyone else.

And so what if Flores had to say he was mistaken? If he was mistaken, that's what he would say, isn't it?

I disagree with everything you just wrote and I explained why above. Hell, even the blood spatter expert who was awful and had no opinions on anything. It could be this or that blah blah blah. But, the one single thing she was absolutely sure about was that the gunshot had to be last because it was on blood. She stated that as fact and by it's nature can't be a fact. Why was that the only thing she was really really sure about?

 

[SevenSins]

well, it can't be proven because you can't prove someone can't remember and you can't prove that Flores now thinks he was mistaken. I find it incredible that you
all believe what they are saying. But I know why.

No, I don't believe that the prosecution team or the medical examiner are conspiring against CMJA or committing perjury, and the reason is simply because there is no logical evidence to support that position.

 

[grayhuze]

And so what if Flores had to say he was mistaken? If he was mistaken, that's what he would say, isn't it?

That is unbelievable. So, why does he think he is mistaken. in the same cross examination he said plainly that Horn told him the gunshot was first and that the gunshot would not be immediately incapacitating. He was told that 3 times. Is Flores a complete idiot? How do you mistake something like that? No, that doesn't just happen. How do you mistake hearing something 3 times? nah...I think if you use critical thinking you might come up with something different. A biased mind will only see there side as good and the other as bad. I have seen bad on both sides, but much more on the defensive side. But there is definitely something wrong here and it isn't just me. Other pro prosecution people think the same thing and noticed the same things but don't like the bullying aspect of the hardcore Juan worshipers. Never works out well.

 

[cindymac]

why don't you? I think it's clear that the prosecution changed the sequencing after Jodi went with self defense and needed horn to not remember and Flores to bit the bullet and say he was mistaken.

I'm not sure why it's clear to you, because it makes no sense.

Again, if Flores was mistaken, he was mistaken - and would say so. And he did. So what?

Or are you suggesting that he - a detective, not a medical expert - should have stuck to his guns and actually disputed the expert medical testimony of the Medical Examiner simply because he thought he heard him say the gun shot was first?

Unfortunately, I think you are.

 

[grayhuze]

1. jodi stole the gun to use to kill Travis.
2. Travis is seated in the last photos in a position that matches the downward angle of the gunshot.
3. Kevin Horn told Flores and is mentioned on the supplemental report that Travis would not have been immediately incapacitating.
4. Flores said "we believe the gunshot was first" in the 48 hour special in 2008.
5. 2008 at the autopsy Flores says he was told the gunshot was first
6. Flores testified that in 2009 and I believe 2010 or 11 was told that Travis would not have been immediately incapacitating
7. Horn said at trial that Travis would not have been immediately incapacitating but then looked at juan and then changed it.
8. 2011 Jodi changed to self defense so now sequencing became important as testified by Flores.
9. At trial, Horn says he can not remember ever speaking to Flores about the case.
10 flores says he wasn't inaccurate but was mistaken about what he thought Horn told him.
why? To create a counter argument to jodi so that sequencing would be the debate not what happened after the gunshot.
Had the prosecution accepted the gunshot as being first then Jodi would be closer to her version being accepted. Her problem all
along were the premeditation factors. this is how I see it.

anyhow, this is how I see it. Until proven otherwise.

 

[grayhuze]

I'm not sure why it's clear to you, because it makes no sense.

Again, if Flores was mistaken, he was mistaken - and would say so. And he did. So what?

Or are you suggesting that he - a detective, not a medical expert - should have stuck to his guns and actually disputed the expert medical testimony of the Medical Examiner simply because he thought he heard him say the gun shot was first?

Unfortunately, I think you are.

you are mistaken about what he was mistaken about. He says he was mistaken about Horn ever telling him that. Not about the sequencing.

 

[cindymac]

That is unbelievable. So, why does he think he is mistaken. in the same cross examination he said plainly that Horn told him the gunshot was first and that the gunshot would not be immediately incapacitating. He was told that 3 times. Is Flores a complete idiot? How do you mistake something like that? No, that doesn't just happen. How do you mistake hearing something 3 times? nah...I think if you use critical thinking you might come up with something different. A biased mind will only see there side as good and the other as bad. I have seen bad on both sides, but much more on the defensive side. But there is definitely something wrong here and it isn't just me. Other pro prosecution people think the same thing and noticed the same things but don't like the bullying aspect of the hardcore Juan worshipers. Never works out well.

There's nothing unbelievable about it all. Please revisit the "three times" you keep referring to, and get back to me with details of how they amount to categorical unequivocal statements by Dr. Horn to Det. Flores that Travis was shot first. Don't forget to include the dates and occasions.

Truth is, Flores simply thoughtDr. Horn had said that, and realized he was mistaken, or had misheard or misinterpreted. And said so.

 

[grayhuze]

There's nothing unbelievable about it all. Please revisit the "three times" you keep referring to, and get back to me with details of how they amount to categorical unequivocal statements by Dr. Horn to Det. Flores that Travis was shot first. Don't forget to include the dates and occasions.

Truth is, Flores simply thoughtDr. Horn had said that, and realized he was mistaken, or had misheard or misinterpreted. And said so.

Ok. your answers show that you aren't going to view this critically but with a bias mind. Not because you aren't agreeing but because you are making excuses for something that is clear as day. Oh well

 

[cindymac]

you are mistaken about what he was mistaken about. He says he was mistaken about Horn ever telling him that. Not about the sequencing.

What? It's the same thing. That's why you said, "... mistaken about Horn ever telling him that..."

 

[grayhuze]

There's nothing unbelievable about it all. Please revisit the "three times" you keep referring to, and get back to me with details of how they amount to categorical unequivocal statements by Dr. Horn to Det. Flores that Travis was shot first. Don't forget to include the dates and occasions.

Truth is, Flores simply thoughtDr. Horn had said that, and realized he was mistaken, or had misheard or misinterpreted. And said so.

How does one make that mistake for that many years. So when Flores was talking with Martinez over the years he kept that to himself? man, i have heard of excuses being made, but this takes the cake.

 

[cindymac]

Ok. your answers show that you aren't going to view this critically but with a bias mind. Not because you aren't agreeing but because you are making excuses for something that is clear as day. Oh well

No, I'm not biased. I'm rational, and what you're suggesting is illogical and unfounded - pure speculation.

 

[grayhuze]

What? It's the same thing. That's why you said, "... mistaken about Horn ever telling him that..."

So, you actually believe that. so if Laviolette had told the courts that Jodi was a sociopath and then said she was mistaken later and then switches to Travis is an abuser would you believe that and accept that as truth. "it's a mistake, that's what you call it" I doubt it and the reason is obvious. You support the prosecution regardless. I see it in many facebook groups where nothing the prosecution does is bad. like the *advertiser censored* on the computer not being discoverd. Excuse after excuse is made.

 

[grayhuze]

No, I'm not biased. I'm rational, and what you're suggesting is illogical and unfounded - pure speculation.

I think it's completely irrational to believe that Flores mistakenly heard that travis would not have been immediately incapacitating 3 different times, even did a speical where he mentioned the gunshot first and put in his supplemental that Travis would not have been incapacitating. I also find it irrational to believe that Horn really doesn't remember ever speaking to Flores about the most important case he has ever worked on. I find that incredible. Good night.

 

[cindymac]

How does one make that mistake for that many years. So when Flores was talking with Martinez over the years he kept that to himself? man, i have heard of excuses being made, but this takes the cake.

Well, when you get back to me with those details of those "three times" you can tell me exactly how many years you're talking about.

 

[cindymac]

So, you actually believe that. so if Laviolette had told the courts that Jodi was a sociopath and then said she was mistaken later and then switches to Travis is an abuser would you believe that and accept that as truth. "it's a mistake, that's what you call it" I doubt it and the reason is obvious. You support the prosecution regardless. I see it in many facebook groups where nothing the prosecution does is bad. like the *advertiser censored* on the computer not being discoverd. Excuse after excuse is made.

That's an entirely false analogy.

Medical evidence in the form of an actual physical body is what it is. It cannot change.

 

[grayhuze]

Well, when you get back to me with those details of those "three times" you can tell me exactly how many years you're talking about.

Flores discussed them at trial. Perhaps you should watch.
here are videos that I made on the subject but are unlisted on youtube.
http://youtu.be/IzjY6c2TYQI
http://youtu.be/oxLZC31zsI4
If you can't see anything in these then we really have nothing to discuss.
I see it differently and will unless proven otherwise

 

[grayhuze]

That's an entirely false analogy.

Medical evidence in the form of an actual physical body is what it is. It cannot change.

That made no sense based on what we were talking about.

 

[cindymac]

That made no sense based on what we were talking about.

You questioned whether I'd accept it as the truth if Laviolette changed her opinion, saying she'd made a mistake.

I said it's a false analogy because Dr. Horn's opinion is based on actual physical evidence that does not, and cannot, change.