Dad Refuses to Give Up Newborn Son With Down Syndrome

[K_Z]

Thanks, Jenny. Of course the test isn't 100% accurate. An amniocentesis is necessary to be sure, IIRC. My daughter tested positive for Down's Syndrom with all three of her children. She and her husband decided they would not abort any of the children even if they were born with DS, so there was no point in testing further.

We--their parents--all promised to support whatever decision they made, of course, and promised to help if they had a a child with special needs. Thankfully, all three children were born normal, and above-normal in intelligence.

BBM.There are 2 kinds of prenatal tests: screening tests, and diagnostic tests. Diagnostic tests are virtually 100% accurate. Screening tests have varying rates of accuracy depending on variables.

Chorionic villi sampling is a diagnostic test. It is virtually 100% accurate for diagnosing Down Syndrome.

(This isn't a scholarly reference, but it's accurate.)

What kind of problems does CVS detect?

Like amniocentesis, CVS can identify:

•Nearly all chromosomal abnormalities, including Down syndrome, trisomy 13, trisomy 18, and sex chromosome abnormalities (such as Turner syndrome and Klinefelter syndrome). The test is more than 99 percent accurate in identifying these conditions, though it can't measure their severity.

•Several hundred genetic disorders, such as cystic fibrosis, sickle cell disease, and Tay-Sachs disease. The test is not used to look for all of them, but if your baby is at increased risk for one or more of these disorders, CVS can usually tell you whether he has the disease.

Unlike amniocentesis, CVS cannot detect neural tube defects, such as spina bifida. If you opt for CVS, you'll be offered a blood screening test in your second trimester to determine whether you're at increased risk for neural tube defects. Most neural tube defects can be detected by a detailed second-trimester ultrasound done at a state-of-the-art academic center.

http://www.babycenter.com/0_chorionic-villus-sampling-cvs_328.bc

 

[K_Z]

I feel sorry for the mother, that has chosen to not share in this journey, the same as I feel sorry for men who abandon their children. They will never know the happiness they have missed.

Respectfully snipped.

I feel sorry for the mom, too. We will never know or begin to understand why she made the decisions she did. We can't understand the family, economic, and societal pressures she may have been under. She may end up feeling quite depressed or guilty, or she may feel differently, perhaps that she has performed what she may feel is a "duty" to abandon a disabled infant, even if she wanted to "selfishly" keep him. All we know is one side of the story. We are quite arrogant as a culture to think we "understand" what her thoughts, ethics, and motivations were for abandonment, and condemn her for that, IMO. For all we know, if abortion is commonplace and accessible, she may have felt guilt for not "availing herself of the option", the one societally approved.

I hate that virutually every comment online about this case wants to string her up. Geesh, that is SOOOO arrogant and culturally blind. It's a feel-good story with a mom-villain that everyone in a wealthy country can embrace and feel all high and mighty about.

While I feel tremendous compassion for this infant and his bio-dad, I also have room in my heart for compassion for this bio-mom. I don't know about her marriage, her options, or her circumstances. She abandoned her infant assertively, in a HOSPITAL, legally in her country, with competent and caring health care professionals. She didn't dump him in a trash pile, which happens to far too many infants. Maybe my expectations are too low, but I think that's actually a "win" in this situation. The baby is alive, wanted by his father, and will be immigrated to a rich country with many resources. The mother made her choice. She walked away from both her baby and her husband. She didn't physically hurt or kill either one of them. Let her go. Who cares? It's best for everyone. Bio-dads abandon healthy and disabled kids every day, but that isn't newsworthy, because it's so commonplace. Bio-moms are held to much higher expectations.

 

[PrairieWind]

K Z. I don't condemn this woman at all. She made a decision in circumstances we know nothing about. I can't condemn her for that. Other than just the general concept of how could any parent abandon their child? Now, that statement is made with the understanding that I don't understand her situation. I can't. I know men leave kids all the time. Its inexcusable. And we shouldn't say "at least he just walked away and didn't hurt or kill them." And they should be held to the same expectations as the mothers. It should be expected that they would both be there to raise the child and support each other. The world has made irresponsibility too easy.

 

[Brightbird]

Over 90% of what? The U.S. would be a massive ghost town within two generations if the rate were 90% of pregnancies.

So whatever do you mean?

FWIW, I'm glad your daughter brings you so much joy. I am entirely in favor of parents who choose to raise their children (completely able or not) and I don't begrudge my tax money going to help them. I'm just curious about this 90% abortion rate. I don't know a woman under the age of 50 who has had an abortion (as far as I know--I'm thinking of family members and close friends who would have confided in me).

Nova, with all respect and I don't how many women you're talking about, but I think abortion is more common than your experience reflects. I was talking to my mum recently and she said that about half of all women have an abortion. Well I figured that's quite an overestimate but from what I can find, in Australia it's about one third of women have had an abortion. I'm talking abortion for any reason, not down syndrome. Maybe it's very different in America, but I just wanted to put this out there.
http://www.childrenbychoice.org.au/...d-figures/faq-for-students-and-researchers#q5

 

[TrackerSam]

She not only abandoned the child, she divorced her husband. Imo the only one she loved in that marriage was herself. Yes bio moms are held to a much higher standard as it should be. In the animal kingdom, newborns are totally dependant on the bio mom to feed, nurture and love them.

 

[jjenny]

If this was a man who filed for a divorce from his wife because they had a disabled child and she wanted to keep the child, I don't think anybody would want to sing that man praises either.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

As I said in my earlier post, we all have to remember that this happened in ARMENIA, not America. The culture is vastly different than western developed nations. It is an economically very poor county, and perpetually involved in war/ strife of various origins. It's the second most densely populated of the former soviet republics. Health spending per person by the government was $112 in 2006. GDP per capita is only around $3000. This is a very poor country by any measurement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenia#Health

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

We have no idea what kind, if any, prenatal care or prenatal diagnosis was available to this woman, or whether or not abortion was even an option or considered (so why is it a topic here?). We have no idea what the societal resources and supports are for caring for a child with Down syndrome (I'm guessing little to nothing, as the orphanages are overflowing with disabled children there, and many healthy children are living in squalor). In short, it is colossally unfair for any of us, sitting in our rich, industrialized country, to pass judgment on what happens in very poor countries. Their options and decisions are NOT even close to the same as ours.

I have no idea why this case even made the news, except the father is an ex-pat from NZ. These cases, of abandoned disabled infants, happen ALL OVER THE WORLD EVERY DAY in many countries. Yes, it's sad and very unfortunate-- but this case is no different than what happens in many poor countries. One of my daughters is adopted from china, and was in a special needs orphanage. A significant proportion of the kids in that orphanage were boys with Down syndrome. Disabled infants are abandoned all the time, in many countries. It's incredibly commonplace, and in some cultures, considered to be responsible and compassionate behavior to not burden your family by "selfishly keeping" a disabled infant. We might find that absolutely abhorrent, but it's reality in many poor areas of the world.

And as for the statistics put out by "pro-life" organizations, those should be countered with actual science. The abortion rate for Down syndrome fetuses is not 90%. Those are manipulated fear-mongering statistics not grounded in valid science or the literature. I have no idea what it is in the area of Armenia and surrounding countries, but I'm guessing it isn't 90% there, either. (This conversation isn't really about the abortion rate of Down syndrome fetuses here in the U.S. or Armenia at all, but given the mother's abandonment of this child, it was inevitable that someone would bring it up.)

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/pd.2910/full

He is not armenian.. And It does not matter. I don't care about culture or whatever. It is his child. You raise your children. In this country in its past many parents also put their kids up for adoption when they had downs or other conditions the parents did not want people to know about.

He is being a parent.. that is it. I don't think we should praise someone for doing the job they are supposed to do.

 

[jjenny]

He is not armenian.. And It does not matter. I don't care about culture or whatever. It is his child. You raise your children. In this country in its past many parents also put their kids up for adoption when they had downs or other conditions the parents did not want people to know about.

He is being a parent.. that is it. I don't think we should praise someone for doing the job they are supposed to do.

He is asking for money to get the kid to NZ and raise him there, not for praises. Praises aren't going to feed anybody fed.

 

[Sonya610]

I don't know a woman under the age of 50 who has had an abortion (as far as I know--I'm thinking of family members and close friends who would have confided in me).

Like Brightbird said, I believe it is much more common than you think. Unless all of the women in your life are ultra-religious and/or married young and stayed married then in all likelihood you just aren't aware of it.

Unless you were a very close confidant/friend at the TIME of the abortion when the woman was upset and sharing, you probably wouldn't know. Not that it is a "deep dark secret", sheesh most women aren't shy about telling their women friends intimate details, it is just not something that most women think/talk about unless the topic comes up in a non-political sense and that rarely happens.

 

[jjenny]

Respectfully snipped.

I feel sorry for the mom, too. We will never know or begin to understand why she made the decisions she did. We can't understand the family, economic, and societal pressures she may have been under. She may end up feeling quite depressed or guilty, or she may feel differently, perhaps that she has performed what she may feel is a "duty" to abandon a disabled infant, even if she wanted to "selfishly" keep him. All we know is one side of the story. We are quite arrogant as a culture to think we "understand" what her thoughts, ethics, and motivations were for abandonment, and condemn her for that, IMO. For all we know, if abortion is commonplace and accessible, she may have felt guilt for not "availing herself of the option", the one societally approved.

I hate that virutually every comment online about this case wants to string her up. Geesh, that is SOOOO arrogant and culturally blind. It's a feel-good story with a mom-villain that everyone in a wealthy country can embrace and feel all high and mighty about.

While I feel tremendous compassion for this infant and his bio-dad, I also have room in my heart for compassion for this bio-mom. I don't know about her marriage, her options, or her circumstances. She abandoned her infant assertively, in a HOSPITAL, legally in her country, with competent and caring health care professionals. She didn't dump him in a trash pile, which happens to far too many infants. Maybe my expectations are too low, but I think that's actually a "win" in this situation. The baby is alive, wanted by his father, and will be immigrated to a rich country with many resources. The mother made her choice. She walked away from both her baby and her husband. She didn't physically hurt or kill either one of them. Let her go. Who cares? It's best for everyone. Bio-dads abandon healthy and disabled kids every day, but that isn't newsworthy, because it's so commonplace. Bio-moms are held to much higher expectations.

If the situation was reversed, the husband said he is divorcing his wife because she is keeping the child, would we be asked for understanding toward this dude? Bio-dad abandon kids every day, but I don't think anybody is then saying "good for him for abandoning the wife and kid"

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

He is asking for money to get the kid to NZ and raise him there, not for praises. Praises aren't going to feed anybody fed.

That is his job as a dad. To find the resources to raise him. I am so tired of everyone becoming a cause. I should have started a go fund me when I was a single mom..
It is ridiculous.

 

[jjenny]

That is his job as a dad. To find the resources to raise him. I am so tired of everyone becoming a cause. I should have started a go fund me when I was a single mom..
It is ridiculous.

Nobody is forcing people to donate to him. And if his job is to find resources, he certainly was able to do that by soliciting donations, was he not?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I am tired of everyone becoming a cause now.
He married her, He had a baby with her, take care of your son and stop playing woe is me.. IMO.

Too many people struggle every day to raise their kids. IF this was a child without Downs and the wife didn't want it and divorced him simply because she never wanted kids would this be a story? Nope. He is using the childs condition to get people to feel bad and pay for his life.

 

[jjenny]

If the kid was without disability, and wife divorced her husband because she simply didn't want kids, why would she have had a kid to begin with?
The guy figured out how to provide for the kid through soliciting donations.
People aren't being forced to donate. Nobody is stopping any single parents struggling to raise kids from doing the same thing. If you want to solicit donations, you are free to do so all day long.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

If the kid was without disability, and wife divorced her husband because she simply didn't want kids, why would she have had a kid to begin with?
The guy figured out how to provide for the kid through soliciting donations.
People aren't being forced to donate. Nobody is stopping any single parents struggling to raise kids from doing the same thing. If you want to solicit donations, you are free to do so all day long.

It happens. People get pregnant and don't want kids. He should provide for his own child. I think what most has me ticked is the Down's diagnosis as some kind of horrible disease. I see people asking for donations to keep their kids alive and help them get medical care, that is one thing. But this child is a baby like any other baby all he needs is love and someone to care for him. Downs is not going to play a part in anything that he would need different than a non downs child until he is school age.

 

[Brightbird]

If the kid was without disability, and wife divorced her husband because she simply didn't want kids, why would she have had a kid to begin with?
The guy figured out how to provide for the kid through soliciting donations.
People aren't being forced to donate. Nobody is stopping any single parents struggling to raise kids from doing the same thing. If you want to solicit donations, you are free to do so all day long.

Surely you know that many many kids are unplanned, even in marriage?

 

[jjenny]

Children with Down syndrome often have health problems. So that isn't accurate to say that he won't need anything different than a healthy child.

" Children with Down syndrome can have a variety of complications, some of which become more prominent as they get older, such as:
Heart defects. About half the children with Down syndrome are born with some type of heart defect. These heart problems can be life-threatening and may require surgery in early infancy.
•Leukemia. Young children with Down syndrome have an increased risk of leukemia.
•Infectious diseases. Because of abnormalities in their immune systems, those with Down syndrome are much more at risk of infectious diseases, such as pneumonia."

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/down-syndrome/basics/complications/con-20020948

 

[jjenny]

Surely you know that many many kids are unplanned, even in marriage?

And there are obvious solutions to this.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Children with Down syndrome often have health problems. So that isn't accurate to say that he won't need anything different than a healthy child.

" Children with Down syndrome can have a variety of complications, some of which become more prominent as they get older, such as:
Heart defects. About half the children with Down syndrome are born with some type of heart defect. These heart problems can be life-threatening and may require surgery in early infancy.
•Leukemia. Young children with Down syndrome have an increased risk of leukemia.
•Infectious diseases. Because of abnormalities in their immune systems, those with Down syndrome are much more at risk of infectious diseases, such as pneumonia."

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/down-syndrome/basics/complications/con-20020948

Does this child have a heart defect? Does he have a pressing medical condition? All these things are not things that matter now. Raise your child and take care of him. That is your job. Do you know how many women who are single moms have children who are sick and dying?

Please. He needs to just take care of his child like a parent ought to.

 

[TrackerSam]

I am tired of everyone becoming a cause now.
He married her, He had a baby with her, take care of your son and stop playing woe is me.. IMO.

Too many people struggle every day to raise their kids. IF this was a child without Downs and the wife didn't want it and divorced him simply because she never wanted kids would this be a story? Nope. He is using the childs condition to get people to feel bad and pay for his life.

I didn't read where he was being woeful.