Damien Echols' occult motives

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I think his present interests ARE completely irrelevant.

However, his -former- interests may indeed be relevant, for reasons given in the Geraldo thread. Again, nothing much to do with the -actual- occult, and more with disempowered youth seeking to feel better about themselves.. but still sort of relevant.

eta: lol, 'sky wizard'
 
Compassionate Reader said:
<respectfully snipped>

BBM

This, IMO, simply proves how totally irrelevant to the crime Damien's supposed "occultist beliefs" and/or practices are! Unless everyone who practices any form of occult is a suspect in every crime with possible "occult trappings" there simply is no connection between such beliefs or practices and this (or any other) crime.
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I know what you mean, but I think ignoring that side of the case is a bad idea, it is a large interest of Damien's and was used in the trial .. I think there are basic misunderstandings around the occult, Damien's interest, and the general meaning of it all that makes in an inflammatory issue, but I think if it was understood better it wouldn't be, does that make sense? I think it needs to be put in it's rightful place without being given too much significance or be left out either.
 
Mrs. G,

I'm not sure. I fear that continuing to discuss "occult" motives when in reality there were none is giving too much credence to something totally irrelevant. Yes, they were used in the trial (although some try to deny that now), but they have since been totally debunked. Although pointing them out does explain, at least in part, how the false convictions occurred, it doesn't make what happened right. That's my problem with continuing to discuss them.
 
I think it's an interesting (and very possibly relevant, for reasons given already) thing to discuss, insofar as it relates to Damien's mental and emotional state at the time (which is the -actually- relevant thing).

I actually enjoy discussing it, as long as I don't feel occultism is being lambasted in general principle.
 
Ausgirl said:
I think it's an interesting (and very possibly relevant, for reasons given already) thing to discuss, insofar as it relates to Damien's mental and emotional state at the time (which is the -actually- relevant thing).

I actually enjoy discussing it, as long as I don't feel occultism is being lambasted in general principle.
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Totally agree, I think it's important too especially since we are going to discuss it in it's rightful context :)
 
Despite the specious arguments made on Geraldo, and since there were actually no "occult trappings" to this crime, I still fail to see how a continued discussion of this non-aspect to the case advances the cause.
 
Compassionate Reader said:
Despite the specious arguments made on Geraldo, and since there were actually no "occult trappings" to this crime, I still fail to see how a continued discussion of this non-aspect to the case advances the cause.
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But that would be like us asking you not to discuss TH any more .. it's part of the case and up for discussion, others can feel free to join in or not ..
 
CR, with all respect, if you go read the Geraldo thread, there's a good conversation happening on the relevance of the whole occult thing and where it is relevant, and is not.

I am the LAST person to side with anyone making stupid assumptions about occultism and its practitioners, but at the same time I am fully aware of how angry, disempowered kids can cling to it (or an IDEA of it, rather) as a means of shoring up their damaged egos and looking cooler and more mysterious than they are.

It's more about Echols personality issues, than the occult, this is obvious to anyone with good sense -- but it's got relevance to discussion of the case. Even if only marginally, and in that context.
 
I have read the Geraldo thread. That show, and the conclusions discussed are over 20 years old. Ideas have changed, and, IMO, only a few loons (like that Ramsey character on the Opperman show) hold on to those ideas about the occult.

As to the idea that disaffected youth could turn violent and use the occult as an excuse, I see that happening more with wealthy youth than impoverished ones. The crimes in which impoverished youth general engage are usually crimes involving obtaining something (like robbery or burglary). Killing is usually involving either a gang initiation or straight gang violence. I don't think anyone believes that these murders were gang-related. So, I find the arguments on Geraldo specious.
 
I 100% agree that the show is a load of horseshyte.

I think what's good is that we have today established that NOBODY is making more of the occult factor here, than it is.

AND we managed to all be nice to each other (mostly) for nearly a whole day in the process. Which is also awesome. :)
 
Ausgirl said:
I 100% agree that the show is a load of horseshyte.

I think what's good is that we have today established that NOBODY is making more of the occult factor here, than it is.

AND we managed to all be nice to each other (mostly) for nearly a whole day in the process. Which is also awesome. :)
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Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Wilson is a trip, isn't he?

You know, years ago, I knew a man who collected Crowley memorabilia, as well as Roie Norton paintings and .. well, all sorts of occult-y stuff. He had some awesome items, including a staff Crowley gave to Frank Bennet.. Anyways, I got to soak up some vibes and history (and merlot) over at his place now and then. I miss his company greatly. Oh yeah - and he got me reading Wilson.

Bennet is a trip, also. :D

Cheers for the link!
 
I know that people questioned the credibility of the prosecutors witness that got his satanic ritual degree online. Did look a bit dodgy. We,ve also heard claims of satanic panic.

But my question is...do people actually know enough about this sort of stuff.

Been reading up on ritual killings...the wicca religion etc.


Tbh theres a lot of similarities between the murder of the 3 boys and other ritual killings...

'Wiccan Ritual Killing' Leaves Family of Three Dead in Pensacola: Police

Maybe the police we,re actually on to something afterall.

The wicca religion regards the full moon some sort of ritual date. Other ritual killings have happened on a full moon. Coincidence that the 3 boys we,re murdered on a full moon.

In the wicca religion...candles and robes are used in their ceremonies. Candle wax and fibres from a robe/gown we,re found at the scene. Coincidence.

Heres the big one. People have always wondered why the boys we,re tied up with knots. In the wicca religion....a knot is used to bind a spell. They practice magic...or as damien calls it magick.

Mutilation is also used often in ritual killings. Coincidence again.

4 things sacred in the wicca religion...earth, air, fire and WATER. Apparently water is used to cleanse.

Apparently been other killings connected to wicca where they believe you get power from the sacrifice. Gathering that water is used to cleanse the sacrifice and a knot used to bind it. Again havent we heard damien talking about getting power from blood etc. Waters involved and the kids we,re binded with knots.

I m sorry but we,re starting to see a pattern here.

I think damien and the gangs got too far into this stuff and its lead to the brutal murder of three innocent 8 year old boys.

Many many people came forward regarding damiens involvement in this sort of stuff. His mental health records pointed to it as well. Wore a pentagram knecklace....had pentagram drawings....a symbol used widely in wicca. No real alibi.

I think people are needing to look closer into this ritual killing conection... Maybe the police have been on to something all along.
 
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Wicca and Satanism or Satan Worship are two completely different things. Wiccans believe to first do no harm and second that any thing sent out is returned to you times three. Damien Ecols may well have been a Satanist but, despite what he might claim now, he was no Wiccan.
 
Catmommy said:
Wicca and Satanism or Satan Worship are two completely different things. Wiccans believe to first do no harm and second that any thing sent out is returned to you times three. Damien Ecols may well have been a Satanist but, despite what he might claim now, he was no Wiccan.
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Yeah i actually agree with you catmommy. But at some point it appears to me damiens went further into it going way past the point of simple wicca religion imo. He 100 percent came across that way.

Theres been other ritual killings falsely in the name of the wicca religion that appears to bear a strikingly similarity to the murder of the three boys. Usually multiple homicides. One found with worse injuries than the other. Often with mutilation. And the full moon seems to be a big thing as well.

Can you confirm if knots are used in the wicca religion. Whats that thing they use to bind a spell. Different knots?

Anyone remember damiens magick?

I dont think anyones really thought there was much significance to the knots. Theres never really been a great explanation for tying the kids up.

Must say after reading more about wicca...then randomly searching knots not expecting any connection at all only to find out there is actually a big relevance of knots. It gave me a chill down my spine.

I m sorry but this crime is ticking all the boxes of a ritual killing. People should research it a bit.
 
Research shows the murder you've referenced was committed by the woman's son and victims' half brother over inheritance and NOT Wicca or Magick
 
Catmommy said:
Research shows the murder you've referenced was committed by the woman's son and victims' half brother over inheritance and NOT Wicca or Magick
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Personally i think theres a real reluctance to put it down to what it was...mainly because their was a backlash from the wiccan community. Its political.

If you look closer into the case tho and other similar cases....you will find very close similarities to the west memphis killings. In terms of the motivation, mutilation, multiple homicides, full moon etc etc.

I think people would be foolish to ignore it.

Especially the knot relevance in wiccan. The real answer to this case has been staring people in the face from the beginning...people are just denying it at all costs for some reason.
 
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