DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #21

[JayMac]

I really think LE should have reinterviewed all the people that made up that convoy.
And the girl friend person in NYC.
And his direct relatives.

There just has to be more information available from some of these sources.
With the right kind of interview and the best LE people doing the questioning then I think more information is available.

I think the government was persuaded that these people were helping to surrender him. If there was some criminal activity involved by any of them it may have been minor or technical and in exchange for complete cooperation including testimony they are not being prosecuted.

I've always felt Wint did this on his own. He may have had info from other people but that on its own doesn't make them co-conspirators.

A strong, violent man could easily have subdued 2 terrified & surprised women and a child they wanted to protect. After that the rest is easy. And we really have no idea whether or not he had a gun with him at the scene. Just because he didn't use it ti kill them doesn't mean he didn't have one to threaten them with.

ETA If Wint had planned to return home he would have wanted cash not the burden of things he'd have to sell and would link him to the house. Maybe he wanted more money but even $40k would have been a good sum to start a new life back home - maybe start investing in a new business like drugs.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

ETA If Wint had planned to return home he would have wanted cash not the burden of things he'd have to sell and would link him to the house. Maybe he wanted more money but even $40k would have been a good sum to start a new life back home - maybe start investing in a new business like drugs.

Those involved didn't know if they'd get more or less than $40K from the bank. SS asked for between $35K-$50K. Whoever was involved only took the BOA money, not the money that was in the large home safe. Whoever was involved left large sums of cash behind at the house according to LE. Also whoever was involved didn't mind taking AS's car for hours on end, which was linked to the house. If you're going to bother stealing the car for hours, nothing prevents you from emptying the house of cash as it's not like you're limited to what you can carry in your pockets, yet the bank money and only the bank money was taken even though the plan with SS was to get up to $50K, which I don't think that extra $10K would have been left to burn if that amount was delivered instead.

 

[jjenny]

Did LE even say anything about money left in the house? As I recall there was one report claiming money was left in the house. Even if there were money left in the house, quite possibly perp didn't know about that money.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Did LE even say anything about money left in the house? As I recall there was one report claiming money was left in the house. Even if there were money left in the house, quite possibly perp didn't know about that money.

Tens of thousands of dollars were reported as left behind:
A substantial amount of money -- tens of thousands of dollars -- was left behind somewhere in the home, along with millions of dollars in art and jewelry, according to multiple sources close to the investigation.

Why would the killer have Savvas Savopoulos arrange to have $40,000 in ransom money delivered to the house -- and then knowingly leave behind tens of thousands of dollars?

"I'm sure that Savvas would have given everything away to save his family," said longtime friend Laurie Diamond.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/20/us/d-c-mansion-murders/
It would be extremely strange that AS and SS would try and hide that money when they're in the middle of paying a ransom for the lives of themselves and their family. It's not like they refused to pay the kidnappers as is evidenced by everything that was done to get the $40K, so if they'll go and create all these elaborate plans and cover stories to get $35K-$50K, that they wouldn't just hand over the combination to get another $20K+ without requiring the need for elaborate plans and cover stories. Are you suggesting that AS/SS were intentionally holding out on their kidnappers and willingly making it harder to pay the ransom? It would seem suicidal intentionally keeping the kidnappers there overnight until the bank opens and you can get someone else to get it when you've got around that amount of money in the house immediately available to pay the kidnappers, like I could see scenarios where AS or SS would do that if they were the only ones kidnapped, but not them doing some gambit where they'd needlessly risk the life of their son.

 

[jjenny]

Assuming that report of money being in the house is true, they might have wanted to not tell the perp about money. Because they were afraid once perp got this money, he would kill them right then and there.
On the other hand if they claimed there was no money in the house, and money had to be gotten out of the bank, they had time. SS was communicating with several people in order to get that money from the bank. Maybe he hoped they would pick up on clues and get the police.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Assuming that report of money being in the house is true, they might have wanted to not tell the perp about money. Because they were afraid once perp got this money, he would kill them right then and there.
On the other hand if they claimed there was no money in the house, and money had to be gotten out of the bank, they had time. SS was communicating with several people in order to get that money from the bank. Maybe he hoped they would pick up on clues and get the police.

That would be a pretty crazy gambit withholding money. If they were playing this as some gambit by willfully withholding cash from kidnappers and lying to them, SS might as well have said he had to personally sign for it if he's going to lie about it as part of a plan rather than getting the money home delivered with the expectation that they'd be killed upon that home delivery. If you're holding out and making it difficult in the hopes of getting LE on the case, there's then no reason then to make it easy with home delivery of money as soon as possible from the bank when instead you could personally sound the SOS to the bankers that you're family has been kidnapped and you're paying a ransom rather than hoping someone will pick up clues when you can tell someone outright what's going on and otherwise get yourself on terrain that is more in your favor with lots of witnesses, armed guards and cameras instead of the seclusion of your house if you're playing a gambit where you expect everyone to be killed once money is received.

 

[Willow Knight]

I think there is a lot we don't know and LE might not know either. I find it strange that the ransom was the only thing taken - aside from the car which seemed to have served as a getaway vehicle rather than an item of value - even though there was 3 hours between the ransom delivery (which was in range of what SS asked for, so it's not like SS delivered less than what would have been promised) and the fire and another 3 1/2 hours between the house fire and the car on fire. I thought during this time whoever was involved would have been ransacking the place and hiding their loot somewhere, but since nothing else was taken besides what could fit in someone's pocket, I don't get why all this time elapsed. This would make more sense if the money arrived at 10:30 and quickly was followed by the house fire then the car fire, not hours and hours separating these events without anything being stolen or transported in the meantime to fill up the large time gap.

The bold part above is an interesting piece of this puzzle. This person either stayed in the area for 3.5 hours or drove a distance away and then returned to the area. If there was only one perp, then this person set the house afire, left with the vehicle and stayed with the vehicle for this long? Then torched the vehicle? The crime could have been committed by one or more people, however if two were involved it would make more sense, to me, that the person driving the torched vehicle didn't set the house on fire.

I'm not certain we would know if anything else was taken from the house. That I can see LE keeping from the public. I have a strong feeling someone close to Wint was involved. He was willing to share this money by the fact he didn't have all of it on his person. Many more details I believe are not released to the public.

This is a haunting case. Those daughters break my heart.

 

[jjenny]

Car wasn't torched near the house. So this person wouldn't have to return to the area to torch the car. Car was seen some time after the house was on fire not that far from the house (with an African-American guy driving it). So it would appear that the perp torched the house, left in the car, then torched the car some hours later.

 

[jjenny]

That would be a pretty crazy gambit withholding money. If they were playing this as some gambit by willfully withholding cash from kidnappers and lying to them, SS might as well have said he had to personally sign for it if he's going to lie about it as part of a plan rather than getting the money home delivered with the expectation that they'd be killed upon that home delivery. If you're holding out and making it difficult in the hopes of getting LE on the case, there's then no reason then to make it easy with home delivery of money as soon as possible from the bank when instead you could personally sound the SOS to the bankers that you're family has been kidnapped and you're paying a ransom rather than hoping someone will pick up clues when you can tell someone outright what's going on and otherwise get yourself on terrain that is more in your favor with lots of witnesses, armed guards and cameras instead of the seclusion of your house if you're playing a gambit where you expect everyone to be killed once money is received.

If report about the money being in the house is accurate to begin with (and there has been a lot of bad reporting on the case) my theory is that either SS forgot about money were in the house (or didn't even know that money were in the house), or didn't want to tell DW money were in the house out of fear that once DW got the money he was going to kill the hostages. If you have better theories that make sense, I'd be happy to hear them.

 

[bondno9]

Car wasn't torched near the house. So this person wouldn't have to return to the area to torch the car. Car was seen some time after the house was on fire not that far from the house (with an African-American guy driving it). So it would appear that the perp torched the house, left in the car, then torched the car some hours later.

An AA guy with short, well groomed hair. This description has always been interesting because DW has long braided hair. Now, it makes me wonder if there may have been a passenger in the car (maybe DW) and the driver was someone else who had short, well-groomed hair.

 

[jjenny]

An AA guy with short, well groomed hair

And if DW pulled his hair in a pony tail, it could look like short well groomed hair. Especially considering witness would only see him for a brief moment.

 

[bondno9]

This was a brutal, personal, and violent crime.

I still suspect more than one suspect in house. One person to control adults and another to control/monitor Philip. Also, I suspect DW [and others] had knowledge Philip was at home ill and used that as an opportunity to gain access to the house.

 

[jjenny]

This was a brutal, personal, and violent crime.

I still believe more than one suspect in house. One person to control adults and another to control/monitor Philip

Just because crime is brutal and violent, doesn't mean it's personal. Plenty of examples of that. If there was more than one perp in the house, it sure looks like police can't find that perp.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

If report about the money being in the house is accurate to begin with (and there has been a lot of bad reporting on the case) my theory is that either SS forgot about money were in the house (or didn't even know that money were in the house), or didn't want to tell DW money were in the house out of fear that once DW got the money he was going to kill the hostages. If you have better theories that make sense, I'd be happy to hear them.

But doesn't AS count for anything? The reason I don't think it was willful was because it would involve cooking up a conspiracy to withhold money in the middle of being held hostage and believing both parties involved (AS and SS) would be able to keep quiet about it under torture with the understanding as to why they're keeping quiet about it and I don't think however rich AS and SS are that they'd forget that they have $20K+ sitting around the house somewhere. Also if it was willful AS and SS could have made it a lot harder and to their advantage by saying it could only be signed for at the bank by SS, but instead the money was delivered quickly, easily and conveniently for the kidnappers...it's the whole home delivery part of it that discounts to me that it was an attempt at obstruction because it would be so reasonable to say that he had to go and get it himself and make no mention that he has a personal driver in JW and others at the company who can sign off large sums of cash for him when he could simply not volunteer those things at all as such volunteered information makes things quicker and easier for the hostage takers. I do for instance think that SS may have broken free and tried take on the kidnappers where he may have underestimated how many there were since I believe it was reported he was found unbound unlike everyone else even though he was best able to fight the kidnappers, which something like this could have been done unilaterally by SS without requiring any coordination with any of the other hostages, but I'd have to see some serious proof that there was a willful conspiracy involving AS and SS working together to withhold money that can overcome the deficiencies of voluntarily giving the information away that a home delivery can be done by various employees instead of needing SS to go to the bank personally as once SS says only he can get the money out, the hostage takers are rather stuck but SS isn't appearing uncooperative.

 

[blessedlife]

Pretty quiet in here.......clearly the wheels of justice move like watching paint dry. Any updates?


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[MSCJgrad]

"The murders, just blocks from the National Cathedral on a street lined with privacy fences and hidden cameras in one of D.C.'s wealthiest neighborhoods, stunned the city."
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...-in-Brutal-DC-Mansion-Slayings-369422711.html

How is it that there have been no more arrests? Investigators said from Day 1 that there were multiple people involved. This is not the first article that I have read that states that there were multiple surveillance cameras both private and business in the neighborhood. How is it that hard to establish how many people were involved, at a minimum? How many people walked into the house on that day? The day prior? How many exited?

 

[jjenny]

"The murders, just blocks from the National Cathedral on a street lined with privacy fences and hidden cameras in one of D.C.'s wealthiest neighborhoods, stunned the city."
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...-in-Brutal-DC-Mansion-Slayings-369422711.html

How is it that there have been no more arrests? Investigators said from Day 1 that there were multiple people involved. This is not the first article that I have read that states that there were multiple surveillance cameras both private and business in the neighborhood. How is it that hard to establish how many people were involved, at a minimum? How many people walked into the house on that day? The day prior? How many exited?

They claimed they believed there were more people involved because it would be very difficult for one person pulled that off. But as far as I can tell they don't have any actual evidence to support the idea that more people were involved.

 

[MSCJgrad]

Wasn't there surveillance video released showing a man who is not DDW fleeing the vehicle belonging to the deceased? I could be wrong, but I think I remember seeing photo stills in the media. If so, at a minimum that's one more person that they have evidence of involvement. I cannot WAIT for discovery phase of this case!

They claimed they believed there were more people involved because it would be very difficult for one person pulled that off. But as far as I can tell they don't have any actual evidence to support the idea that more people were involved.

 

[jjenny]

Wasn't there surveillance video released showing a man who is not DDW fleeing the vehicle belonging to the deceased? I could be wrong, but I think I remember seeing photo stills in the media. If so, at a minimum that's one more person that they have evidence of involvement. I cannot WAIT for discovery phase of this case!

Absolutely not. Nobody said man running wasn't DW.

 

[MSCJgrad]

Thanks for clarifying!! Anybody have a link for the video?

Absolutely not. Nobody said man running wasn't DW.