DCF Shelter and Custody Hearings #2

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Greater Than said:
A DCF approved relative who is capable of caring for the child is ALWAYS preferred over a stranger. Foster care is a last resort when a child is unable to be placed with a relative or another safe adult.

As long as MAG is willing to continue to care for the girls, that is by far the best placement IMO. She is their blood. She raised their mother. She will always make decisions that are in their best interest. She loves them.

They will one day realize how lucky they are that she made such sacrifices for them.
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Agreed. And we don't know if MS is dramatizing or exaggerating the situation. There are always going to be bumps in the road when you raise teenagers. Especially those close to puberty.

Lets hope the relations between MAG and her granddaughter's arent as bad as MS lawyer is implying and that any rift was an isolated incident.

I am hoping now that MS is being charged with the death penalty he will have more pressing matters on his mind and will confer with his lawyers moreabout his goofy defense than who has custody of his girls.

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debbiegarcia36 said:
Agreed. And we don't know if MS is dramatizing or exaggerating the situation. There are always going to be bumps in the road when you raise teenagers. Especially those close to puberty.

Lets hope the relations between MAG and her granddaughter's arent as bad as MS lawyer is implying and that any rift was an isolated incident.

I am hoping now that MS is being charged with the death penalty he will have more pressing matters on his mind and will confer with his lawyers moreabout his goofy defense than who has custody of his girls.

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Did Mummert say in a news interview that 'they' are doing what MS, their client wants. Implying that MS is driving the boat and not listening to counsel. So I see MS doing just as you sat, exagerating and acting out...he thinks he is pretty good, but not that good. IF the Judge felt the girls were in a bad home with MAG, after he talked to them, the girls would be out of there.

Tomorrow will be interesting.....
 
Greater Than said:
A DCF approved relative who is capable of caring for the child is ALWAYS preferred over a stranger. Foster care is a last resort when a child is unable to be placed with a relative or another safe adult.

As long as MAG is willing to continue to care for the girls, that is by far the best placement IMO. She is their blood. She raised their mother. She will always make decisions that are in their best interest. She loves them.

They will one day realize how lucky they are that she made such sacrifices for them.
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If family comes first, then if maternal grandmother is unable and the paternal grandmother has applied, then the kids would go to paternal grandmother. Do I have that correct? It is a terrible bind for MAG. And, a grueling situation even without all of MS's drama and challenge.
 
Oregonmama said:
With the circumstances a non relative placement is necessary. I have no doubt that mary is capable but this case is so complex that it differs from the usual DCF case.

I'm always rooting for Mary but some things need to change emotionally before a relative takes over.
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I agree. The court order needs to change as far as MS having constant access to them and they need counseling that addressed the facts of the situation that surrounds them. I wish one of the younger feistier members of TS's family would take the girls for the transition that they are going to need to make eventually. I feel so bad for Mary. Don't forget that in one of the interviews with TS's sister, Mary thought it may be too much for her to keep the girls up there for 2 extra weeks when they were on vacation. And that was when everything was supposedly ok. Now add that drama that MS is creating since the murder of her daughter on top of the self doubt she had originally. She is a strong woman to step up and take this on but lets not forget that she and her husband are not young. And I can't even imagine how mentally it must effect her to have the murderer of her daughter call every day, sometimes multiple times a day. <modsnip>
 
I am trying to catch up and so much is going on. What is this about one of the girls writing something in German? Is this a fact or a supposition? Does MS know German?
 
Bobbywoo said:
I agree. The court order needs to change as far as MS having constant access to them and they need counseling that addressed the facts of the situation that surrounds them. I wish one of the younger feistier members of TS's family would take the girls for the transition that they are going to need to make eventually. I feel so bad for Mary. Don't forget that in one of the interviews with TS's sister, Mary thought it may be too much for her to keep the girls up there for 2 extra weeks when they were on vacation. And that was when everything was supposedly ok. Now add that drama that MS is creating since the murder of her daughter on top of the self doubt she had originally. She is a strong woman to step up and take this on but lets not forget that she and her husband are not young. And I can't even imagine how mentally it must effect her to have the murderer of her daughter call every day, sometimes multiple times a day. <modsnip>
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Relatives do come first regarding placement. I just think and we only hear what has been presented so far is that the transition is getting tougher . Was really hoping Mark would get the evaluation in the beginning when he was arrested so the appropriate actions would take place. There is so much behind the scenes that we do not know. I'm only basing my opinion on what we have heard so far.

I really want Mary to succeed but the extra drama games by Mark is getting out of hand. For all we know , the girls might be getting extensive therapy. Dcf will not make case info public.

A non relative placement would protect Mary from being falsely accused. I just hope Mary has been given a safety net with services to proceed with long time care. I have always been on Mary's side .
 
Matlacha said:
I agree and perhaps go further. I think the judge, by allowing this farce to go on, is himself guilty of child abuse. In the unlikely case the judge has no choice under the law, then the law is guilty of child abuse.
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MATLACHA...A very, very wise post. No WS'er forgets the horror of reading the 911 call the social worker made when Josh Powell killed two beautiful, innocent little boys with a hatchet and then set the house on fire! Court ordered visits, no less!!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-murder-suicide-father-snatched-children.html
For many agonizing months I literally held my breath, as did many, praying the girls would be safe while LE continued their investigation. Their physical bodies have been rescued, yet their hearts, allegiances, and minds are still being held hostage, manipulated and tested with every whining-voice-cracking-over-the-top-declaration he makes.:drama:
As time progresses, they'll start bonding with their cousins, aunts & uncles more and more. They will be a part of a large family and see MAGS is loved and respected by her children and grandchildren! Teresa's family "arms wide open" is giving them stability....and dab nabbit, it's gonna' happen! I'm not saying it is going to be an easy road, but it can't be any worse than the one we have already traveled.
Love all your posts, but I'm going with full-blown OPTIMISM.
 
Daisy47 said:
Sadly, I agree with you. Speaking of "shooting the messenger".... I'm about to get shot but IMO, though this situation would be extremely difficult for any member of TS's family who had custody of the girls, sweet Mary's age makes it even more challenging. It seems to me that the small things in life that at one time they deemed as "no big deal" tend to create huge anxiety for people as they age.

This is my opinion only (and probably not worth diddley squat) and is based strictly on my own personal experiences with elderly folks. In addition to volunteering in a nursing home for the last 15+ years, my precious mother in law lived w/us the last 5 yrs of her life and my Dad has lived with us since 2009. No doubt the younger members of TS's family have very valid reasons for not seeking custody, but I sure wish they had been able to. [emoji22] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Agree with you 100% and add to that, Mimi has been grieving her daughter's brutal death and now add the reality of her son-in-law doing it :( A whole lot of grief and anxiety at anyone's age is incomprehensible to me, but add to that, uprooting your life (at that age especially), moving into a completely different environment (a 180 by my reckoning, yikes) and now being responsible for bright, possibly precocious and definitely brainwashed kids. Along with the attitude that comes from that, I don't blame her for snapping and calling a name at one of them if that's what truly happened. We don't know what the word is, and it's possible it - if it happened - that it's a matter of interpretation and not a cussword.

I hope any counselor for the girls reminds them that it's a tragic loss for Mimi, too. I hope she is getting some counseling and guidance for how to deal with the girls and keep herself healthy and sane while doing it. I think it takes a tremendous amount of courage to take this on.
 
I don't think one person here thinks that Maternal Grandma isnt doing a great job, SHE IS, but, we're not talking about a case where both parents were killed in a car accident, or one parent died of an ailment and the other parent is not able to care for the children. So they need to be placed with close relatives.

We all know we're talking about a father that had his childrens loving mother murdered in one of the worse ways ever imaginable and then left with him for MONTHS in "that" house of horror. Manipulated ,lied to, pumped with stories on how awful their maternal family is, isolated. and on and on.

After he was arrested they were thrown to the wolves, more or less. Then put with their loving Grandma that had now been known as an evil person because Daddy said so.

Can we all try to imagine what damage was done in those , what? 8 months after Mom was murdered? I don't think we can.

Those children need to be put somewhere , where true healing can start, IF, it's not too late. Grandma just can't or won't be able to do that. She is not equipped, no amount of money ,right now will help those girls.

I do believe there are places for children in those situations, I've heard them called something like healing ranches, more work should be done to try and find something like this.

These places have alot of counseling, recreation and they attend school there.

I don't understand how this going around and around is in the best interest of these girls. It is not their fault and every effort should be made to make sure they are taken care of properly.

Properly is NOT having contact with a father that had their mother murdered, or with a grandparent that has to monitor their every move and take care of medical problems. It's just TOO much to do on a daily basis, plus ALL the animosity.

Just because someone is "blood" or family does not mean that is a proper fit or placement'
.It can be more of a hidderance than help, the maternal Grandmothers well being (or anyone elses in the family for that matter) should also be considered a high priority. As time goes on I believe the family will realize they are in danger and surely it will be too late.

Their father is blood and we all knew where that got them, they should not have remained with him, yet they did, and the outcome was and is??

If anything should have happened is the girls should have been allowed to go up North, away from the "show" and been told EVERYTHING. Now it's too late for them to believe any of it. If he is found not guilty, then so be it, the girls could have came back to Florida and life would go on. For crying out loud, they all went there on vacations, why not make it a long vacation/stay, while all this went on. That is what is in the best interest of the child. BS could have gone up there to visit her Gr. daughters. What would have been wrong with that??

MS has instilled it in their mind and heart that he would never do anything like that and they believe it, that is why we are seeing or hearing about these behaviors. Right now these behaviors may be mild, but, the train has just taken off.
My opinion with truth mixed in.
 
Speaking from experience, losing a parent to natural causes is very tough for kids under the best of circumstances. I can't imagine how much more complicated it becomes when someone intentionally causes their death. That's not even getting close to the horror of people claiming your other parent was involved and puts that parent in jail. All those helpers in uniform we're supposed to look for when we're scared or in trouble? They put daddy in jail.

I can't remember who, but a man was interviewed several times during the OJ trial. His father had been charged with his mother's murder and much later acquitted, though he was left with serious doubts as to his innocence. He said the people who helped him most were those who respected his feelings and respected his grief and his coming to terms with the situation over the years. Reading this article reminded me of what he'd said:

Life After Domestic Homicide

[Children] become both a victim-survivor and offspring of a murderer.

<snip>

Children need a rounded picture of their parents in order to resolve their own inner identity struggles. When a father, for example, has no redeeming qualities, the child’s self image can be damaged because of the conflict inherent in trying to identify with the father. “If daddy is bad, then half of me must be bad because half of me comes from daddy.” These kinds of fears are common. Children worry that they may inherit the badness or sickness of the perpetrator. They may fear that they will end up like the parent who was killed or even that the perpetrator will come back to kill them too. ...

Children also have difficulties with attachment. Such difficulties are expected given the nature of the crime itself, the unresolved loss, and the aftermath of disruption. The dimensions of the attachment are also influenced by self image and the ambivalence over children’s post homicide identification with either the victim or perpetrator. Indeed, existing studies show that although many children have no discernible attachment problems, the majority have difficulty attaching at all or may be under-attached to their caregivers and, as adults, have trouble establishing and/or maintaining love relationships.
​

Much more at the link including a grandparent describing the very different ways the kids are dealing with the loss of their mother and their father being in prison.
 
Jen Darme said:
Speaking from experience, losing a parent to natural causes is very tough for kids under the best of circumstances. I can't imagine how much more complicated it becomes when someone intentionally causes their death. That's not even getting close to the horror of people claiming your other parent was involved and puts that parent in jail. All those helpers in uniform we're supposed to look for when we're scared or in trouble? They put daddy in jail.

I can't remember who, but a man was interviewed several times during the OJ trial. His father had been charged with his mother's murder and much later acquitted, though he was left with serious doubts as to his innocence. He said the people who helped him most were those who respected his feelings and respected his grief and his coming to terms with the situation over the years. Reading this article reminded me of what he'd said:

Life After Domestic Homicide

[Children] become both a victim-survivor and offspring of a murderer.

<snip>

Children need a rounded picture of their parents in order to resolve their own inner identity struggles. When a father, for example, has no redeeming qualities, the child’s self image can be damaged because of the conflict inherent in trying to identify with the father. “If daddy is bad, then half of me must be bad because half of me comes from daddy.” These kinds of fears are common. Children worry that they may inherit the badness or sickness of the perpetrator. They may fear that they will end up like the parent who was killed or even that the perpetrator will come back to kill them too. ...

Children also have difficulties with attachment. Such difficulties are expected given the nature of the crime itself, the unresolved loss, and the aftermath of disruption. The dimensions of the attachment are also influenced by self image and the ambivalence over children’s post homicide identification with either the victim or perpetrator. Indeed, existing studies show that although many children have no discernible attachment problems, the majority have difficulty attaching at all or may be under-attached to their caregivers and, as adults, have trouble establishing and/or maintaining love relationships.
​

Much more at the link including a grandparent describing the very different ways the kids are dealing with the loss of their mother and their father being in prison.
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Great post. Great insight! Thanks!

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From the article Jen Darme posted:

"Other short-term effects include fears of being separated from the current caregiver and a tendency to be either overly emotional in response to everyday situations or overly in control of emotions. Indeed, because some children may be in a state of shock or numbness, adults may erroneously assume that their quietness indicates little or no reaction. Uniformly children feel sad, depressed, lonely, preoccupied, guilty, and angry."

Reading that article makes you realize all of the many things we don't even consider.

Those poor little girls. I think someone should send this article to Mark and his counsel.

He is a destroyer- not a lover or a good father- what did CWW call him? Super dad? Yeah right. Someone should send this article to Curtis, as well. JRR? Meh- I have zero sympathy probably because I have been around baby faced or 'kind looking' psychopaths- and JRR absolutely is one- make no mistake there.
 
Jen Darme said:
Speaking from experience, losing a parent to natural causes is very tough for kids under the best of circumstances. I can't imagine how much more complicated it becomes when someone intentionally causes their death. That's not even getting close to the horror of people claiming your other parent was involved and puts that parent in jail. All those helpers in uniform we're supposed to look for when we're scared or in trouble? They put daddy in jail.

I can't remember who, but a man was interviewed several times during the OJ trial. His father had been charged with his mother's murder and much later acquitted, though he was left with serious doubts as to his innocence. He said the people who helped him most were those who respected his feelings and respected his grief and his coming to terms with the situation over the years. Reading this article reminded me of what he'd said:

Life After Domestic Homicide
[Children] become both a victim-survivor and offspring of a murderer.

<snip>

Children need a rounded picture of their parents in order to resolve their own inner identity struggles. When a father, for example, has no redeeming qualities, the child’s self image can be damaged because of the conflict inherent in trying to identify with the father. “If daddy is bad, then half of me must be bad because half of me comes from daddy.” These kinds of fears are common. Children worry that they may inherit the badness or sickness of the perpetrator. They may fear that they will end up like the parent who was killed or even that the perpetrator will come back to kill them too. ...

Children also have difficulties with attachment. Such difficulties are expected given the nature of the crime itself, the unresolved loss, and the aftermath of disruption. The dimensions of the attachment are also influenced by self image and the ambivalence over children’s post homicide identification with either the victim or perpetrator. Indeed, existing studies show that although many children have no discernible attachment problems, the majority have difficulty attaching at all or may be under-attached to their caregivers and, as adults, have trouble establishing and/or maintaining love relationships.
​

Much more at the link including a grandparent describing the very different ways the kids are dealing with the loss of their mother and their father being in prison.
Click to expand...

Ms. Darme this is a great article not only for domestic homicide but for all homicides that relatives, friends, caregivers should read, may make one think about how to go about counseling, life and all afterwards. I think i am going to run my printer out of ink making copies for the family. Thank You again
 
fldigger said:
Back in court today at 3pm

http://www.fox4now.com/news/dcf-motion-hearing-scheduled-monday-for-sievers-children
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From that link.

According to the judge, we are expecting him to meet with Mark's daughters to talk about allegations made against their current caretaker, Teresa Sievers's mother.

[...]

Monday we expect to hear from Mark's attorney and from the DCF, who allege among other things that Mark is using phrases in German to communicate with his daughters. "We had informed the father he cannot speak to the children in code or in an other language, because these have to be screened letters. But (he) has persisted doing so."
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This is horrible. Is he still trying to turn the girls against MAG, or am I reading this wrong?
 
Legally Bland said:
From that link.



This is horrible. Is he still trying to turn the girls against MAG, or am I reading this wrong?
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That's what it sounds like to me, and it won't stop until the judge says only supervised visits with DCF present or no contact. I think he's pushing this judge. IMO

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